IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
IceShanty Main => General Ice Fishing Chit Chat => Topic started by: fishaman on Nov 09, 2014, 10:19 PM
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Wondering what you do to prep a chainsaw for cutting ice? Do you use different chain oil, no chain oil? Any tips tricks? Thanks
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Absolutely no oil........be sure your states laws on hole size,ours is 10" maximum
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You'll be putting oil into the water, which, depending on where you live, can get you nailed with a big fine. It also will rust your chain, clutch, and sprocket, unless you blow it completely out, re-oil all parts, and let it dry INSIDE. I can think of way more reasons NOT to use one to cut ice than I can to do it. Don't do it. Besides, a great way for anyone to fall into the water and maybe suffer catastrophic consequences.
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Fishaman, do know what "WET" is ? You will, for sure after a stunt like that. I suggest a big warming fire, then you can engage in that Tomfoolery. :nono:
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Yea, how dare a guy cut a hole for his spearing shack!
It's not something I've done personally but there are plenty of vids on youtube, there's a comment on this one that you don't run any bar oil at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x12df5kDUVE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x12df5kDUVE)
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It's done quite often here in WI for sturgeon spearing season. Saws are set up with a greaser system instead of oil. You also want to run a different chain setup with more links between cutters.
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Seems that using the top of the bar would throw the debris/water downwards. ;)2
Many folks really prefer "DRY" , especially below zero F or -32 C.
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Seems that using the top of the bar would throw the debris/water downwards. ;)2
Many folks really prefer "DRY" , especially below zero F or -32 C.
This^
When your done just bring it inside where its warm and dry, my Stihl hasn't gotten rusty yet..
No oil, among other reasons, it will cause a slick on top and you wont be able to see down the hole very well..
When you running your saw on the ice for the first time of the season, do a bunch of cutting (far away) before you get to your spot. That will flush and clean out your "ice saw" so when you actually get to your spot you hole is nice and clean with no oil slick...
I screw in a T ice anchor before cutting as an aid to lift the block up and out before cutting... Make your cuts at a slight angle so your block can only come out one way. When your done your block goes back in the hole and is safe enough to stand on or even drive across! While fishing, sit your block on a couple sticks or something to keep it from freezing to the ice (talk about a hazard!) If your angle isn't too much you can sit your block on the smallest end and kick it free at the end of the day as well...
Good luck!!
<*)))>{
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Everything has been pretty much covered. I have cut hundreds of holes in the ice for myself as well as others. My saw happens to be a Stihl o36 that has never been used for anything other than ice. Once oil is put in a saw it is about impossible to use it without the dreaded slick. Running the chain loose keeps everything spinning just fine.
One thing not touched on is that with a little care you can cut through within a 1/2 inch or so of actually breaking through to water. It takes a little practice but by doing so not only does the saw stay dry but so do you. Then when you make your final pass you are quickly done and the saw can be placed inside to dry out.
In my case I use to help some commercial guys and we had to cut a 6' x 12' or so holding trough to pull the net into. Other then that most of my sawing was done for a spear hole. If this (spear hole) is the main purpose you are thinking chainsaw do yourself a favor and check these out http://icesaws.com/ Up to a 12"-14" of ice these are slick as can be. Since I got one my chainsaw has been benched and I don't miss the fumes or wet hind end a bit.
WS
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One thing that wasn't covered is you need to richen your fuel mixture. If your saw runs good in the summer, it will be very lean in the winter, if you can even get it to start. I don't know about the bar oil. I don't see how its worse than outboard exhaust in a lake. If you are worried about it, I would grease the chain before use. The guys I know that do it wear a rain suit when cutting, and they stay dry. When you don't have an ice saw, its a fine way to make a spear hole. Another option is to cut a bunch of ice auger holes side by side.
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One thing that wasn't covered is you need to richen your fuel mixture. If your saw runs good in the summer, it will be very lean in the winter, if you can even get it to start.
What kind of a saw are you using? We use saws at work year around and in all types of weather and we have never had to change a thing ???
WS
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What kind of a saw are you using? We use saws at work year around and in all types of weather and we have never had to change a thing ???
WS
You don't have to touch the mixture, Whopper. We all know that. Chainsaws are used year round, but of course a pro like you already knows that. Experience and tech know-how trumps conjecture every time. ;)
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auger and spud is easier and safer than trying to cut and move a large chunk of ice
I use to use a 10/10 Mac. with a 20'' bar
no oil and cleaned before use
also knock down the raker's on an old chain for cutting ice
SnoHam13
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Hundreds of " races holes" 1x6 or 8 feet are cut with chain saws here in Maine for smelt fishing in salt and brackish
water and most everybody uses chain saws. Might want to wear rain pants.
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Oregon makes a nice li ion powered chainsaw. No smell in the shanty after cutting the trough with that one. Also all the electronices are sealed. If you take two seconds to wipe down the saw after your done, you will have fewer problems with rust.
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Its not opinion, and it doesn't matter the saw. Its the same for any engine. The colder it is, the more gas it needs.
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Its not opinion, and it doesn't matter the saw. Its the same for any engine. The colder it is, the more gas it needs.
So, all the carbureted cars/trucks from the 70's on back, I should have re-tuned all the AFB's or Q-jets for the winter? ::)
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Yes, you should have. If it ran great in 70 degrees, it sure did not at 0. If you ran it a little rich in the summer, you probably didn't notice. The same is true of elevation, the higher you go, the richer it will run. But you will never run into that problem in MN ;D. Ever notice that in the winter you get less gas mileage? That is your fuel injection compensating for the cold. Its not opinion, its science, and it all has to do with air density.
That said, if you turn your pilot and main fuel screw out about 1/8-1/4 of a turn you should be good to go. It will prevent headaches and possible engine damage, there is no reason not to do it.
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Guess you need to tell all the automakers they were all in error. I find your statements incredulous. What the heck did you think people drove in Minnesota 30 years and back? Mine all ran great in all four seasons, as did most people's. Do you think everyone took their vehicles in to the shop in winter and asked for a Winter carb retune? In cold, the mixture is denser and richer; they often run better. Go back to school and get some certification and years of experience under your belt before you start telling me how my vehicles and millions of other folks vehicles ran/how they should have. Love to see some pics of all the vehicles you've owned, raced, built. I've quite a few albums of mine. Oh, by the way, my cross-ram injection system doesn't seem to have a pilot or main fuel screw...you did say ALL gas engines, right? ::) Have a good day.
Now, let's get back to OP's thread, please!
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Being as I was not alive to see the glory days of carbureted cars, so my experience is very limited with them. I will say that both cars I worked on with carbs, the same rules applied. I just figured 30+ years ago, people either made the adjustments, or lived with sputtering, and hard starts. I did say it applied to all gas engine, but I didn't say all were adjustable. I won't tell people what they should do, but the OP asked about cutting with chainsaws, and the fuel mixture should be changed to run in the winter.
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FWIW..
I have found just about any combustion engine to run better when its cold out due to the fact that colder air hold more oxygen..
Engines can be tuned to get optimum HP for certain temps but most are set up for a happy medium...
Stihl saws have a thing that you can set to restrict the air on the carb for high elevations/cold temps, but I have never found it was needed.. I have run them all from 020 through 086 year round...
Chainsaw or not, a good set of gore tex bibs are your best friend to stay dry and warm on the ice...
<*)))>{
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Being as I was not alive to see the glory days of carbureted cars, so my experience is very limited.
That much is obvious! :woot: :roflmao:
It seems some things never change. I've noticed that in all three of my quarter-centuries, most of which involved engineering, mechanics, science, diagnostics and most importantly, common sense, to wit: the proper fuel:air ratio for operation of/in various power sources.
I've also noticed the difficulty in changing another's mind against their will. The same thing occurs in telling the person they are wrong. Stubbornness and being wrong go hand in hand.
Now, back to Cutting ice with Chainsaws. :P
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I've heard of people using cooking oil instead of bar oil before.
Haven't tried it myself though.
Ever since I bought my ice saw I have never needed the chainsaw for cutting a spear hole. I really like it and I don't think I would ever go back.
I cut two holes with my auger on opposing corners of the hole area. Then cut out the square.
I'm no expert on engines like Rebelss I know he was a pro mechanic for years. But even I don't buy the adjust your carburetor theory. I had professional chainsaw classes put on by one of the big saw manufacturers back in the late 90's.
They did not mention this adjustment I hear spoken of and we never did it.
We only ran our saws from +100 down to ~-40 though. Maybe it makes a difference at warmer or colder temps that that though?
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This a joke too much arguing. To sum things up... Run a clear bar and don't run bar oil. If you saw runs sb*tty then pull the plug and read it. It may be running too lean. Either way, warm up your saw because cold seizure is more of an issue if your saw is really cold. Now I am holding my breath for a computer controlled fuel injected chainsaw. Hope you get my sarcasm.
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BTW my 10/10 was set up for a ''water cooled'' bar ;D
just saying
SnoHam13
and the SNOW has started in Da Keweenaw :woot:
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As someone said use the top of the bar. Stay dry that way. Also back angle the cut narrow on top wide at bottom and push the chuck down.
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Do I have to drain the oil,change the blade or readjust the carburetor if I use the saw manually like a hand saw ? ;)
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Do I have to drain the oil,change the blade or readjust the carburetor if I use the saw manually like a hand saw ? ;)
No, but be sure to drain the fuel before using.
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Don't want to stand on the piece you're cutting. ;) If you don't keep running the saw or keep it warm it will freeze up quick when cold out. It'll locked up solid like when the chain brake is on.
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:woot: :roflmao:
Do I have to drain the oil,change the blade or readjust the carburetor if I use the saw manually like a hand saw ? ;)
Osage, are you the guy that took the saw back with the complaint of slow cutting and when they fired it up, asked "What's that noise" ?
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I've been spearing (or trying anyway) sturgeon on Winnebago the last few years and I've seen a few various setups. A lot of guys have a grease gun attached to the saw and pump grease onto the drive gear to help with freeze up. Some guys run veggie oil for bar oil. Others will run them without anything. As long as you run the water out of the chain after the hole is cut, it seems to be personal preference.
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I would use oil on the chain. Try fish oil, specifically Omega3. ;)
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It's pricey but you can get biodegradable bar oil. We use it when removing log jams from the river.
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:woot: :roflmao:
Osage, are you the guy that took the saw back with the complaint of slow cutting and when they fired it up, asked "What's that noise" ?
[/quote
Yeah,I wasn't to impressed with the dang thing,now I just use a teeny tiny stick of dynamite for making holes ;)
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Hahaha, I knew you'd like that , Osage. I've been accused of being a "powder monkey" too. Anything less than a quarter stick may need redoing. ;)
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Dynamite is old school. Get a few pounds, or 20 of tannerite and shoot it with a rifle.
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I foresee C-4 might change your mind, just a small block the size of a "normal" fist and move back about 1/3 a football field, ha. :woot:
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Having played with both Dynamite is definitely a bigger better boom though it is getting harder to acquire.
I've heard you can make a homemade Tannerite that is a bigger boom than the store bought stuff. But I wouldn't know about that. :whistle:
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Many :whistle: :whistle:
So glad they don't have our minds registered .
Or, do they ? :o
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This a joke too much arguing. To sum things up... Run a clear bar and don't run bar oil. If you saw runs sb*tty then pull the plug and read it. It may be running too lean. Either way, warm up your saw because cold seizure is more of an issue if your saw is really cold. Now I am holding my breath for a computer controlled fuel injected chainsaw. Hope you get my sarcasm.
EFI 2 Stroke
Not that far away, I saw a 5 minute blip on one of the science channels about it.
http://www.ecotrons.com/products/2_stroke_small_engine_fuel_injection_kit/
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Throttle body injection is not at all the same as direct injection. Throttle body injection is nothing more than a carburetor with computer controlled jets. Either way, I hope not to ever see it in small equipment like a chainsaw. They should be as light an simple as possible.
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Thanks for all the feedback. I plan on getting some nice Laker footage with the Go Pro. ;D
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Idk if anybodys said this but the resort by me uses vegtable oil, or i know theres food safe hyraulic oil out there
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We have had direct injection 2 strokes on the market for years in the marine world. Heck merc introduced the XRI clear back in the early 90's
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Wow just seeing this I guess all my setups on race cars I should have talked to you. First and foremost Injection and carbureted engines can only push so mush through the jet or injector. Second part of your theory is correct when you say cooler air does allow you to burn more fuel but the facts are the system does not adjust on its own you must change the jets and also change the injectors to allow more fuel into the system. Millage will not deplete until you do so no mater how cold it is.
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What you describe is simply changing air flow rate. All carbs and injectors are fixed until you manually change either the jets or the injector itself. On a computerized system with a fixed injector you are asking for headaches unless you re chip the computer to match the injector. Carbs like Holley sell jets kits and in order for you to re jet a carb you must know ambient air tem along with humidity along with octane rate. A rule of thumb was simple for every 10 deg re jet carb. What you describe is nothing more than adjusting air by twisting a air adjustment screw the carbs on chainsaws are fixed jet and can not be adjusted for more fuel but adjusting the screw all you do is either add more air or eliminate air. NOT FUEL. To change that you either must change the entire carb or build a flow bench and drill the carb to a specific jet hole for a certain temp remembering the 10 degree rule of thumb. So you better have a bushel basket of carbs to do the method you speak of or SIMPLY run it the way it came from the factory because simple truth it will run just fine with no noticeable difference in performance. Get some books and read about internal combustion engines please and leave the responses to the professionals Your method will burn pistons and seize 2 strokes faster than not running mixed oil with the fuel
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Thank you, Cold_feet. Good to see another real mechanic out there. ;)
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Real mechanic? Most chain saws have fuel screw not air screws. :P
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Ibut there is a screw that controles the idle plate
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Wow now you really show your lack of knowledge of carburation on internal combustion engines. Those are not fuel adjustments they do not regulate fuel to the carburetor they adjust the air mix You adjust the air mix to lean or richen the mix but you do not adjust the fuel quantity going through the carb As I have said the jets are fixed and can not be changed. Please try to learn a little more about these subjects before spouting off.
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As should you. This site is absolutely the best place for ice fishing info. As far as mechanics go, not so much, and that's not a bad thing.
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There is something I've noticed about all us rocket men, technical engineers, machinist, mechanics, the lots of which have the intelligence, intestinal fortitude, sense of humor, presence of mind and gall, to realize when to stop casting pearls before swine. ;)2
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Talked with a friend today who owns a small engine repair shop. I do not know how long he has been professionally repairing small engines but I do know it has been at least the 10 years I have known him and certainly longer than that.
He repairs all makes and manners of small engines from chainsaws to outboard motors to ATV's and snowmobiles.
Anyway he agrees with the majority here you should not ever have to adjust your chainsaws carburetor from summer to winter.
You do for elevation but, nobody is arguing that one.
He said the manufacturers set them for the middle of the road so you have the widest range of operating temperatures.
When he adjusts them he uses a tachometer designed for the task.
I am done on this subject as I confirmed what I already knew and have been doing since I first learned to run a saw as a teenager woring on my dads logging sites over 20 years ago.
If I am wrong I am man enough to admit it. But since I'm right......... Ok Ok I'm done.
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And right you are, Chris. I think it's just a bad case of "everyone else is wrong, but me". ;)2
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I would use oil on the chain. Try fish oil, specifically Omega3. ;)
We use the juice from 'Gulp Alive" containers. Fish come rolling in...
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In the 70's and early 80's when I was in school my dad and the other guys we speared with used chain saws all the time. Dad bought on old green one at an auction that was probably from the 60's or so cheap and that thing cuts lots and lots of holes. Also was used to cut trenches out of the ice across the river and they would spear there as well. There is no way you would use an auger/chipper or a hand saw for that very often.
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So true PF, engines save armstrong wear & tear, ha.
We don't have the freedom of large holes here, any dimension over 10" and you get a citation. >:(
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Still laughing Been turning wrenches for damn near 60 years. worked on everything including DIRT and NASCAR race engines. Ive tuned, built and was Crew chief. and also built carbs for these engines. I guess I know squat. I got to be 20 again when all 20 year olds know everything. Believe what you like
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For true with the 20 year olds. :bow:
Another laugh, my Doctor needs a visit from Fish & Game, my new tee shirt reads "Ask me about my colonoscopy". See above in reply 56 for the limit. :roflmao:
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holy resurrection!!!!
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holy resurrection!!!!
No kidding. I was reading back to see where it started without looking at the reply dates. Wholly cow, I thought, RebelSS is back on the site... ::)
Gotta love it when you hit "Reply" and this appears:
(https://i.postimg.cc/yxHSRwjx/zombie-alert-zpsbambytaw-1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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I am an owner of a WEN 40417 40V Max Lithium chainsaw. It is highly robust, and battery life is impressive. Once when cutting trees suddenly my chainsaw slipped from my hand to ice, but unfortunately, i saw that the chainsaw was still intact and the iceberg was split into two pieces. If you want to know about that chainsaws, go to http://spam
spam! with a ridiculous story to try to sell on his amazon partnership webpage.