Weeds on clear lake

[1timothy1]

So I was out on clear between Christmas and new years.  And could not find good weeds in spots I fished last year.    They sprayed the lake for the invasive weed but you think it also killed the other weeds??

[taxi1]

So I was out on clear between Christmas and new years.  And could not find good weeds in spots I fished last year.    They sprayed the lake for the invasive weed but you think it also killed the other weeds??

It's possible if a broad based Floridone product was used to control an invasive species, or is it possible the weeds just died down for the winter?

[CL_Outdoors]

Tim, where were you fishing? They did spray for eurasian water milfoil over the summer. I'm attaching 2 maps - 1 from last spring after they surveyed the water and designated target zones, and another from AFTER they treated the lake. Purple means it was treated, red means there was EWM present, so they had a really successful spray getting rid of the EWM.

Based on what I've learned from attending the CL conservancy meetings regarding this matter, they used an herbicide called ProcellaCOR which specifically targets EWM with minimal damage to other native species. I've researched the herbicide quite a bit and it surprisingly does a pretty good job of not harming plants that aren't EWM, so that's good. I wasn't able to get out there around the holidays to check it out, but it sounds like it may take another year or 2 for native plants to re establish themselves into areas where fish will hold during the winter. Until then, I'd use that second map to get a feel for where there are still pods of EWM present.

Edit** what I meant by native plants re establishing themselves - I dont think the herbicide killed native plants, I just think the EWM was pushing native plants out of their normal areas. Now that most of the EWM is gone, it may look barren because the native weeds havent had the time to grow again in those spots.

Hope this helps!

[1timothy1]

I was out in front of condos .   So the purple is where they treated am I correct .   

[CL_Outdoors]

I was out in front of condos .   So the purple is where they treated am I correct .   

They treated the dropoff, which is a little further out than the flat I'm assuming you and others were fishing in front of the condos, but the herbicide (as you can see on the second map) killed a lot of EWM that was not in the targeted treatment areas. So it's likely that the lack of weeds you were seeing was due to the treatment.

Any luck fishing that area? Buddy of mine sent me a pic on christmas with 6 or 7 shacks out in front of the condos and in the 25' hole. Hoping we can get out there by february 

[1timothy1]

It was hit and miss out there and parking starting get limited .   Way looks is like we might have two week of ice season.  I’m about just sell everything. 

[Oaktree1215]

It was hit and miss out there and parking starting get limited .   Way looks is like we might have two week of ice season.  I’m about just sell everything.

And move to Florida.

[wallydiven]

And move to Florida.

Minnesota in the summer and Florida in the winter would be ideal!!

[taxi1]

I was out in front of condos .   So the purple is where they treated am I correct .   

I wasn't aware there is a herbicide now that selectively works on the Eurasian Milfoil. Good to know!

I've used Fluridone products in my fish production ponds (the latest is Spritflo), and it pretty much works on all macrophytes in the Potamogeton genus et al.  Even stresses bullrush and cattails if you use enough.

Just wish there wasn't such a monopoly on the Fluridone products I use. Up to $30.00 an ounce is hard to bear.

[Lee1977]

Hey Taxi, how much will an ounce treat? Just curious.

[taxi1]

Hey Taxi, how much will an ounce treat? Just curious.

1 oz would treat about 83,982 gallons.

That sounds like a lot, but my 1/2 acre pond has a about a million gallons, or 3.5 acre feet, so at a rate of 3.88 oz. per acre foot that requires 13.58 oz.

I pump my pond down about a foot before applying as I don't want this to go over the spill way.  Don't want to waste it and I don't want to effect any watershed downstream.

I used to just raise tilapia in the basement and plant them into the pond late in the spring when they were up to 8 to 10 inches to control aquatic weeds, but haven't done that in a few years. They also provide forage for largemouth bass at the same time as they are constantly reproducing, but there is no danger of them overrunning the pond, as below 50 F. they die. A lot of people have caught on to using the tilapia so there is a high demand for them now.

I can't imagine the bill for some of these lake associations to treat EM.

If you're not aware, you should see what precautions they are taking out east to keep these invasive out in the first place. One reservoir in Massachusetts requires a boat inspection and wash down (I believe it's a steam clean), and then a wire and specific lead seal is connected from the boat to the trailer. When you launch an attendant cuts the seal. After you come back to the launch, a new wire and seal is attached. If you show up with the seal broken, as in you launched somewhere else you aren't permitted to launch your boat at the reservoir. The water is probably too soft for exotic mussels, but it's a great idea to keep the invasive macrophytes out.

NYS has a slightly different approach on some of their upstate reservoirs. You get the boat inspected and washed, and you have to leave it at the reservoir chained to tree. No outboards allowed on most of them. Any boat that is launched has to be inspected and steam cleaned first.

[CL_Outdoors]

Taxi, you're right it is not cheap. I dont know what the exact figure is but I do know it's north of $50k for the 5-year treatment plant.

And yes, don't know if I mentioned that earlier but this EM treatment on Clear Lake will span the next 4 years, but they do not anticipate a heavy treatment next year given how well this year's went.

[Lee1977]

Thanks for the information Taxi! I have a pond I’m needing to do something with and just don’t know what direction to go. I hate to kill everything because it’s a very good fish producer. I do have grass carp in it but probably not near enough. They are almost 20 pounds now and there’s only 20 of them for 3-1/2 acre pound. I’m thinking just doing some spot treatment’s and see how that works. The majority of the pond is about 4’ deep. Interesting what other states are doing to combat weeds.

[taxi1]

Taxi, you're right it is not cheap. I dont know what the exact figure is but I do know it's north of $50k for the 5-year treatment plant.

And yes, don't know if I mentioned that earlier but this EM treatment on Clear Lake will span the next 4 years, but they do not anticipate a heavy treatment next year given how well this year's went.

CL I'm actually surprised it's that low. I've heard of Lake Associations paying four times that much, but that may have been a really severe infestation?  I know the fluridone products I use can last more than a year if there isn't too much water exchange in a body of water. I also use a dye in this pond which is supposed to slow down the break down of the product. Or so they say.

Believe it or not, I was reading about a reservoir also in Massachusetts (Wachusett) where they have scuba divers actually manually remove invasive macrophytes possibly because it's a critical drinking water supply? And Massachusetts is very restrictive with herbicide. I don't believe their fish and wildlife is allowed to use rotenone. But I doubt the infestation is very significant as the reservoir, for the most part, is very oligotrophic as it has a reproducing population of lake trout and gets planted with landlocked salmon and rainbow trout. Only 30 miles as the crow flies from Boston!

[taxi1]

Thanks for the information Taxi! I have a pond I’m needing to do something with and just don’t know what direction to go. I hate to kill everything because it’s a very good fish producer. I do have grass carp in it but probably not near enough. They are almost 20 pounds now and there’s only 20 of them for 3-1/2 acre pound. I’m thinking just doing some spot treatment’s and see how that works. The majority of the pond is about 4’ deep. Interesting what other states are doing to combat weeds.

I have a friend west of us in Grant County that would consult for you for a fee that is extremely knowledgeable on the subject. He manages and stocks ponds for a living. He could probably give you the best solution and save you some money. He's honest. Can't say that for some others out there.

You should try and catch one of those grass carp. I've heard they will put a steelhead to shame on fighting ability, or at least give them a run for their money. I read about someone that planted a pond only with grass carp and charged a fee to catch and release them on a fly rod.

[Lee1977]

Would that be Scott? I think that’s his name. He’s the guy that I bought the grass carp from. When I talked to him he seemed like he knew hiss stuff. Thanks.

[taxi1]

Would that be Scott? I think that’s his name. He’s the guy that I bought the grass carp from. When I talked to him he seemed like he knew hiss stuff. Thanks.

Yes that is Scott.

[CL_Outdoors]

CL I'm actually surprised it's that low. I've heard of Lake Associations paying four times that much, but that may have been a really severe infestation?  I know the fluridone products I use can last more than a year if there isn't too much water exchange in a body of water. I also use a dye in this pond which is supposed to slow down the break down of the product. Or so they say.

Believe it or not, I was reading about a reservoir also in Massachusetts (Wachusett) where they have scuba divers actually manually remove invasive macrophytes possibly because it's a critical drinking water supply? And Massachusetts is very restrictive with herbicide. I don't believe their fish and wildlife is allowed to use rotenone. But I doubt the infestation is very significant as the reservoir, for the most part, is very oligotrophic as it has a reproducing population of lake trout and gets planted with landlocked salmon and rainbow trout. Only 30 miles as the crow flies from Boston!

The reason it's not as expensive is because ProcellaCOR requires 500-1,000 times less dosage than other previously approved herbicides. It's also much safer for both fish and humans, and does a better job of targeting the milfoil exclusively. 



Regarding hand removal via the use of divers, I actually stumbled upon that information as well. I'm surprised they even attempt to do that since everything I've read has stated it's not very efficient and the weeds grow back after a short period of time. Not to mention it costs nearly $9k/wk PER DIVER.

[Oaktree1215]

Minnesota in the summer and Florida in the winter would be ideal!!

I like the way you think

[taxi1]

The reason it's not as expensive is because ProcellaCOR requires 500-1,000 times less dosage than other previously approved herbicides. It's also much safer for both fish and humans, and does a better job of targeting the milfoil exclusively. 



Regarding hand removal via the use of divers, I actually stumbled upon that information as well. I'm surprised they even attempt to do that since everything I've read has stated it's not very efficient and the weeds grow back after a short period of time. Not to mention it costs nearly $9k/wk PER DIVER.

Interesting!

Well no offense to an Massachusetts residents here, but Mass has some serious revenue due to exceptionally high taxes, and it's also a very expensive state to live in. Wachusett is a back up drinking water supply reservoir for Boston, so I'm sure there are some federal dollars available too.

One of my favorite little undeveloped Glacial kettle lakes in Massachusetts, that has a water clarity of about 25 feet, an average depth of 40 feet, and a maximum depth of 68 feet, but only 26 acres in area, now has curly leaf pond weed and nothing is being done about it last I knew.  I was amazed to see a dense stand of it coming out of at least 20 feet of water all the way to the surface. The small swimming beach has it now. If they try to pull it instead of spot treating it it will only spread more via fragmentation.

[FishDaddy09]

I have friend that treats weeds for a living he tells me that the pond weed is all but impossible to kill. You can knock it down but not kill it.

[wallydiven]

I have friend that treats weeds for a living he tells me that the pond weed is all but impossible to kill. You can knock it down but not kill it.

Because if they killed it there wouldn't be a need to come back. I will tell you I'm COMPLETLY AGAINST the use of chemicals in natural waters.

[Lee1977]

I myself don’t like the killing of weeds either. I’m trying other ways to help control them and having a little success but I’m of the same opinion that you’ll never kill them all. The weeds really help with keeping the water clear in my pond which helps with the winter sight fishing. I think a lot of it depends on what your using your ponds for that dictates what weed control to use.