Canyon Ferry Caommercial Fishing

[fishin7]

Thanks.  Mr Bigshot has a nice ring to it.  I prefer Mr. Workedhardgotaneducati onandearnsagoodwagebec auseofit but your nick name rolls off the tongue better.

Jay

P.S. Nice edit rookie...

Lol!   I like your nick name, Mr. Workedhardgotaneducati onandearnsagoodwagebec auseofit better!   

[halijigmt]

Quite possible,the internet isn't the best place to get know people for who they really are.It is a good place to talk trash and get people bent out of shape though isn't it?Maybe Ive been locked up in this cubicle for tooooo loooonnng.

[JayHelfrich]

Quite possible,the internet isn't the best place to get know people for who they really are.It is a good place to talk trash and get people bent out of shape though isn't it?Maybe Ive been locked up in this cubicle for tooooo loooonnng.

Truth.  Plus I don't back down and I'm not afraid to voice my opinion either.  My company wants to put me in management (aka a cubical) but I like field work better.  I can go fishing when I'm out in the field and between job sites.  Can't do that downtown in an office!


Now back onto the original subject...

This can only be good for these fisheries.  The common carp eat a LOT of bug life.  Removal of carp will allow other, more desirable, fish to use these invertebrates as a forage base.  I look at it this way...

There is X amount of fish food in the lake.  Each fish species is allotted a portion of X as their feed.  Pre carp and walleye bloom (from my memories they occurred near the same time) the X was spread between perch, rainbows, and other native fish.  Now that the walleye and carp have large populations they have taken portions of X previously used by the other species.  Now the walleye are having to eat a portion of the fish to provide for the additional portion of X that the explosion of carp devour every year.  If we can lower the amount of X that the carp eat we can increase the feed for perch, trout, and reduce the amount of fish walleye eat.

Jay

[vicster]

I think commercial fishing in Canyon ferry for carp would be great.  As stated they consume a lot of biomass that could otherwise be eaten by other game fish.  I don't know if it would make much of a dent in the population but it definitely can't hurt the fishing and if someone can make some money doing it I say go for it.
As far as the fishing in canyon ferry it can still be very good for the guys who adapt.  With a change in the system (carp, walleye bloom) the other gamefish will often change there habits to compete and fisherman need to adapt as well. 
Jay is one of the most knowledgeable guys on this site and I have learned a lot from his posts and take note when he says something.  I'm surprised to see him get drug into this drama, but if you take pot shots at a working class guy from Butte your going to get a reaction.  I'd suggest stating your point without getting personal and who knows, you might learn something...  Good luck to everyone this weekend.

[rooster740]

I like jay, and my family commercial fishes in Alaska, and does not kill all of the other non target fish. I say get ER done.
Oh I also only work part of the year but I suck at fishing so lets all get along. Especially in the circumstance of harassing a crazy Butte guy that is handy with a rifle from way the heck over there ----->! Geez

[lundin-loading]

Jay, ill fish with you again any chance we get! I've met plenty of upstanding people on the internet, you get out of it what you put in, when you've been here for all of 1 month and start calling names like this you only alienate yourself...PS I work less days than all of you and spent over 75 days on the water last year. Unemployment, What's that???
Honestly I say have two or three more carp safaris if you really want to put a hurt on the population! That tournament brings people from all over the state and snuffs a ton of carp! I rigged up a bow couple years ago, I might just have to start doing my part!!

[vicster]

Def get a bow fishing set up.  I've done a little out of a boat, but stalking the steep bays on canyon ferry or the lower missouri from shore is the best.  You don't get as many fish, but it's spot and stalk:) and a fun way to put a few arrows thru the bow.  I need to figure out a way to put a reel on one of my self-bows so I can try using it this summer. 

[lundin-loading]

I need to figure out a way to put a reel on one of my self-bows so I can try using it this summer.

Self bows eh? You a Bowyer? I built a pretty simple setup to attach a spool to my selfbows. Let me know if you want a pic.

[JayHelfrich]

I should start whacking carp while I run the boat for the wife and kids to catch walleye.  I'll put my money where my mouth is and buy one of those bow fishing kits.  Do you need a bow stamp for bow fishing?

Jay

[Bigskyokie]

Jay, A friend of mine wades the edges when the carp are spawning and he'll get a hundred as fast as he can shoot them.  He just uses a bow with minimal draw strength, a spool, and an arrow that has shot who knows how many thousands of carp.  He smokes and then cans a lot of them, and gives the rest to friends.  I haven't tried to eat them because my wife says she doesn't want anything to do with a trash fish. 

[Jig like a spider monkey!]

I'd like to take most of the blame for getting Jay's hackles raised.  I was just joking around about all the 4 inch walleye on the ice.... the carpeted ice shack....  the heater.... the electronics.... the underwater camera, the ego,  and all of that other stuff...  Somebody should have reminded me of how defensive a Butte guy can be!!!Personally, I don't use all of that stuff... instead of buying a bunch of toys for myself, I spend my money on toys for my little girls and saving to put them through college.

I think it's great to have a job that allows you to go fishing half of the year, and it's not too often that a guy from Butte can lay claim to an education... so again... more props!  (there I go again... my bad).  I applaud the passion!  At my job (prefer to call it a career)... I work extremely hard to help ensure that guys like Jay (and Jay's in the future) continue to have the opportunity to enjoy our fisheries and take advantage of the recreation opportunities that they provide.  Most of my research more directly involves native, endangered and threatened fish species.... but most people don't realize how important popular fisheries like Canyon Ferry are to help keep angling pressure off of the native fish (cutthroat, bull trout, sturgeon etc...) so those imperiled populations can have a shot at recovery. 

And to address a couple of the questions from earlier.....  yes, they are rainbows congregating/concentrating in the areas that you suggested (the bays, along the shore, inlets, shallows... pretty much anywhere they can find some gravel) to try to spawn.  Almost all are unsuccessful.  The vast majority are put and take fish... they have no natal spawning areas to try to return to, so they just find what they can.  Fish staging to spawn in the spring are incredibly easy to catch because they are instinctually aggressive at that time of year, but don't actively feed... their mind is on romance!  That's why they are hitting rapalas so hard... but yet you don't find any fish in their guts... 

So Jay...  I apologize if you were offended, I know you're a good fisherman and probably a really solid guy.   For more information, check out the following website:

http://www.jayhelfrich.com/butte_sucks/60fishdays=smoking_crack/fourinchwalleyes.r.us

 

[Jig like a spider monkey!]

Carp are bad.

[ClearCreek]

Seining carp to remove them from a big reservoir can be a successful endeavor.  It can reduce numbers somewhat, but by no means will it eliminate them.  And, when the operation stops the carp population will be back to pre-removal numbers in a few short years.

The State of Nebraska had a seining crew (that was part of their game dept.) 50 years ago that seined carp from large reservoirs.  One of the guys on that crew told me that in ONE seine haul they did under the ice at a reservoir in southwest Nebraska they caught 104,000 lbs. of carp, yes 52 ton of carp in one seine haul.  He said it took them 3 days to haul the carp away.     

So it can work, just takes time and the right equipment.

ClearCreek

[halijigmt]

http://www.jayhelfrich.com/butte_sucks/60fishdays=smoking_crack/fourinchwalleyes.r.us

ROFL!I found my sig line!

[Born Late]

Removal of carp will allow other, more desirable, fish to use these invertebrates as a forage base.

While I realize Rotenone isn't an option in CF, an interesting observation after a large scale poisoning operation in a North Dakota lake was that water clarity measurably improved within a few days of offing a bazillion carp. It's not just WHAT they eat but HOW they eat that can affect the forage and foraging ability of more desirable game fish. Carp plowing through the sediments deposited at the river mouth on the south end can't be a good thing for everything else downstream.

Although they don't spawn until June, the carp move into CF shallows much earlier.  I've been on the south flats in waders in April and the carp are so thick you feel them bouncing off of your legs.  Try it with your bow; it's a hoot.

Seining carp to remove them from a big reservoir can be a successful endeavor.  It can reduce numbers somewhat, but by no means will it eliminate them.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "successful" but it can help.  I'll be curious to see what size of operation the new permittee has and how many carp he'll be able to process.  Might be a good opportunity to help this guy out if a few volunteer hands means more carp on the beach.

[ClearCreek]

I wouldn't go so far as to say "successful" but it can help.  I'll be curious to see what size of operation the new permittee has and how much carp he'll be able to process.  Might be a good opportunity to help this guy out if a few volunteer hands means more carp on the beach.

BornLate;

What I meant by successful was the person doing the removal, if they know what they are doing, can remove a lot of carp.  As far as to what degree the removal would do to the water quality, reservoir primary productivity, or influencing the production of stronger year classes of more "desirable" fish is unknown until the carp removal has been done for a while.

ClearCreek

 

[Jig like a spider monkey!]

While I realize Rotenone isn't an option in CF, an interesting observation after a large scale poisoning operation in a North Dakota lake was that water clarity measurably improved within a few days of offing a bazillion carp. It's not just WHAT they eat but HOW they eat that can affect the forage and foraging ability of more desirable game fish. Carp plowing through the sediments deposited at the river mouth on the south end can't be a good thing for everything else downstream.

Although they don't spawn until June, the carp move into CF shallows much earlier.  I've been on the south flats in waders in April and the carp are so thick you feel them bouncing off of your legs.  Try it with your bow; it's a hoot.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "successful" but it can help.  I'll be curious to see what size of operation the new permittee has and how much carp he'll be able to process.  Might be a good opportunity to help this guy out if a few volunteer hands means more carp on the beach.

Born late ....   I agree with you completely.

[halijigmt]

Anyone consider the food supply(carp fry/minnows) that will dry up if the carp are removed?

[BackCountry Kyle]

They won't be "removed"

[halijigmt]

If they "WAS"?

[BackCountry Kyle]

They won't... It's big water and they are one outfit(for now anyway). Was that said before?  So, no I haven't considered it. 

[JayHelfrich]

I'd like to take most of the blame for getting Jay's hackles raised.  I was just joking around about all the 4 inch walleye on the ice.... the carpeted ice shack....  the heater.... the electronics.... the underwater camera, the ego,  and all of that other stuff...  Somebody should have reminded me of how defensive a Butte guy can be!!!Personally, I don't use all of that stuff... instead of buying a bunch of toys for myself, I spend my money on toys for my little girls and saving to put them through college.

I think it's great to have a job that allows you to go fishing half of the year, and it's not too often that a guy from Butte can lay claim to an education... so again... more props!  (there I go again... my bad).  I applaud the passion!  At my job (prefer to call it a career)... I work extremely hard to help ensure that guys like Jay (and Jay's in the future) continue to have the opportunity to enjoy our fisheries and take advantage of the recreation opportunities that they provide.  Most of my research more directly involves native, endangered and threatened fish species.... but most people don't realize how important popular fisheries like Canyon Ferry are to help keep angling pressure off of the native fish (cutthroat, bull trout, sturgeon etc...) so those imperiled populations can have a shot at recovery. 

And to address a couple of the questions from earlier.....  yes, they are rainbows congregating/concentrating in the areas that you suggested (the bays, along the shore, inlets, shallows... pretty much anywhere they can find some gravel) to try to spawn.  Almost all are unsuccessful.  The vast majority are put and take fish... they have no natal spawning areas to try to return to, so they just find what they can.  Fish staging to spawn in the spring are incredibly easy to catch because they are instinctually aggressive at that time of year, but don't actively feed... their mind is on romance!  That's why they are hitting rapalas so hard... but yet you don't find any fish in their guts... 

So Jay...  I apologize if you were offended, I know you're a good fisherman and probably a really solid guy.   For more information, check out the following website:

http://www.jayhelfrich.com/butte_sucks/60fishdays=smoking_crack/fourinchwalleyes.r.us

 

http://www.jayhelfrich.com/butte_sucks/60fishdays=smoking_crack/fourinchwalleyes.r.us

ROFL!I found my sig line!

Hey, you guys keep trying to get one over on Ol' Jay.  Maybe you will succeed one day.  The thing you forget about us "Butte Guys" is we got pretty thick skin.  So you flaccid phalli keep worrying about the internet and I'll worry about real stuff.  Like the time, money food, and equipment I volunteered today searching for the body of a missing hiker on the Continental Divide.

Jay

[Jig like a spider monkey!]

Hey, you guys keep trying to get one over on Ol' Jay.  Maybe you will succeed one day.  The thing you forget about us "Butte Guys" is we got pretty thick skin.  So you flaccid phalli keep worrying about the internet and I'll worry about real stuff.  Like the time, money food, and equipment I volunteered today searching for the body of a missing hiker on the Continental Divide.

Jay

Don't take it so serious!  Helena guys have been making fun of Butte guys for centuries.  It's not because we want to, it's because we HAVE to, it's in our blood!  It's deeply woven in the fabric of who we are.... And it's Sooooo darn easy! 

You clicked on the link, didn't ya! 

Good that you volunteered

[mackdog75]

I should start whacking carp while I run the boat for the wife and kids to catch walleye.  I'll put my money where my mouth is and buy one of those bow fishing kits.  Do you need a bow stamp for bow fishing?

Jay

Just a fishing license. And its fun as heck. I don't bow hunt but have lots of money tied up in bowfishing. 5 bows, Boat with platform and 7 150w HPS lights for night.

[rooster740]

Don't take it so serious!  Helena guys have been making fun of Butte guys for centuries.  It's not because we want to, it's because we HAVE to, it's in our blood!  It's deeply woven in the fabric of who we are.... And it's Sooooo darn easy! 

You clicked on the link, didn't ya! 

Good that you volunteered

If you see a sleeping grizzly bear, do you walk up and kick it? Nope, my guess is as soon as that beast turns and acknowledges you, you had better take that spider monkey azz on a panicky jog!
Now back to the topic

[missoulafish]

Didn't know about the Butte / Helena thing until a few years ago when I went to a MMA fight in Helena. One of the bouts didn't go as plan. Needles to say things went downhill after the baby stroller was thrown into the ring followed by several folding chairs. Apparently fighters don't like strollers bounced off their heads and soon after ward the riot started. True story.