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Author Topic: JawJacker warning!  (Read 2495 times)

Offline RuttNutt

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JawJacker warning!
« on: Feb 14, 2021, 09:32 AM »
I was fishing at Winola yesterday and talking to a guy that recently got a fine there for using a JawJacker. I told him I thought they were just giving warnings but he said the PF&BC officer claimed he had already given him a warning. He said it must have been a case of mistaken identity because he had just bought the JawJacker and it was his first time using it. He said he tried to explain that the officer must be mistaken that he had never got a warning because it was his first time using it, but the officer didn’t want to hear it. He said the guy was a real @$$!  ::)

So I guess you can’t count on getting a WARNING that first time!  >:(
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Offline capt.crappie

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #1 on: Feb 14, 2021, 07:17 PM »
I was fishing at Winola yesterday and talking to a guy that recently got a fine there for using a JawJacker. I told him I thought they were just giving warnings but he said the PF&BC officer claimed he had already given him a warning. He said it must have been a case of mistaken identity because he had just bought the JawJacker and it was his first time using it. He said he tried to explain that the officer must be mistaken that he had never got a warning because it was his first time using it, but the officer didn’t want to hear it. He said the guy was a real @$$!  ::)

So I guess you can’t count on getting a WARNING that first time!  >:(
RuttNutt. This is your first warning   :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Offline NEZ

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #2 on: Feb 14, 2021, 07:40 PM »
What I was told by a warden is that most of them are just giving warnings, but a few are writing tickets.  Nez

Offline RuttNutt

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #3 on: Feb 15, 2021, 08:03 AM »
RuttNutt. This is your first warning   :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Yeah, right?!  ::)
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Offline jimhaney08

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #4 on: Feb 15, 2021, 08:15 AM »
It seems like there's quite a bit of variability between the demeanor of different WCOs.  At least in my limited experience.  This seems to confirm that.  Thanks for the info RuttNutt!  I'll relay to my buddy who has JawJackers.
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Offline dkfry

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #5 on: Feb 15, 2021, 09:05 AM »
I'd fight the ticket. Make them prove that they are actually illegal in court and show exactly what law was broken.

Offline RuttNutt

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #6 on: Feb 15, 2021, 10:22 AM »
It seems like there's quite a bit of variability between the demeanor of different WCOs.  At least in my limited experience.  This seems to confirm that.  Thanks for the info RuttNutt!  I'll relay to my buddy who has JawJackers.

No problem Jim- we need to hear about these firsthand accounts of what is going on out there................. ...

I listened to the PF&BC Meeting and heard one official(think he was the head of law enforcement) state that they should NOT write citations at this point- just give warnings.

I think the problem in this specific case on Lake Winola was an officer that THOUGHT the individual in question was already warned, and he was a little overzealous.

I would definitely fight a citation, especially if it was without any warning!  ::)
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Offline maddogg

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #7 on: Feb 15, 2021, 10:35 AM »
I'd fight the ticket. Make them prove that they are actually illegal in court and show exactly what law was broken.

I doubt it is written anywhere that they have to give you a warning.

Offline butcher

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #8 on: Feb 15, 2021, 02:25 PM »
Nearly every interaction I ever had with every PA game warden was very professional, positive and frankly, enjoyable. Most just give a quick check of the license and gear and then we talk about hunting and fishing for a few minutes before they head off.

I did however have one AWFUL encounter with a game warden in Bradford County about ten years ago. This guy came onto our property and harassed us for FOUR HOURS trying to prove we were poaching (with zero evidence). He checked everyone’s licenses, our gear, our ammo, our shell casings, searched our entire property, including our vehicles, desperately looking for any reason to write us a ticket. He even threatened to write my uncle a citation on a tagged buck because the tag was attached to the antler and not the ear. In his words, it was “a very serious violation.”

He left our property many hours later angry and frustrated and never did turn in that citation on my uncle - probably because the commission or judge would throw it out for being BS. Ironically, there was a warden who was visiting the butcher where my uncle had his deer processed. I asked him if the tag was ok on the antler. He said it was fine and when I relayed the story of the other guy, he seemed like he was reluctant to believe any officer would be such an idiot.

Offline RuttNutt

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #9 on: Feb 15, 2021, 03:30 PM »
I doubt it is written anywhere that they have to give you a warning.

I listened to the commission meeting and they talked about just giving warnings until this is voted on at the next(April) meeting. (Listen at 22:00)

https://www.facebook.com/PaFishandBoat/videos/452933369197433/

If I got a citation I would play this for the judge!  ;)
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Offline bz

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #10 on: Feb 15, 2021, 03:37 PM »



Offline bz

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #11 on: Feb 15, 2021, 03:38 PM »
This is something I saw on the issue.  Hope they just legalize it

Offline dkfry

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #12 on: Feb 15, 2021, 07:16 PM »


Unless the below code was amended since it does not look to me like the code they quote backs up their determination in that post. It would seem they are trying to base that off of the "immediate control" definition which really does nothing to support them in their claim.

"§ 63.6. Authorized devices for game fish, baitfish and fishbait.

 (a)  It is unlawful to fish for game fish with more than three lines of any description, whether fished by rod or by hand, at one time except while ice fishing in accordance with §  63.10 (relating to ice fishing). There is not a restriction on the number of hooks used for fishing for game fish, except when fishing in the Pymatuning Reservoir where no more than three hooks shall be attached to each line used in fishing. Rods, lines and hooks shall be under the immediate control of the person using them. A fishing device shall be deemed to be under the immediate control of the person using it if, when the terminal device (hook, bait or lure) is taken by a fish, the person using the device has direct control over it and it is not connected at that point to a casting or depth placement aid such as a casting boat or downrigger. Casting or depth placement aids such as downriggers or small remote controlled boats are not prohibited by this chapter.

 (b)  It is unlawful to fish for baitfish with more than three lines of any description, whether fished by rod or by hand, at one time; a dip-net or minnow seine not over 4 feet square or 4 feet in diameter, and a minnow trap, with not more than two openings, which may not exceed 1 inch in diameter. There is not a restriction on the number of hooks used for fishing for baitfish, except when fishing in the Pymatuning Reservoir where no more than three hooks shall be attached to each line used in fishing. Rods, lines, hooks, nets and seines used in fishing for fishbait and baitfish shall be under the immediate control of the person using the same. For the purposes of this subpart, gizzard shad (Dorosoma cepedianum) 8 inches or less in length are considered baitfish.

 (c)  For purposes of this section, a hook is considered a fishing device with no more than three points or barbs.

 (d)  It is unlawful to use more than three lines at any time, except while ice fishing in accordance with §  63.10, when fishing for game fish, baitfish or both.

 (e)  It is unlawful to use any type of net or seine to catch or take game fish. A landing net may be used to land game fish legally caught by hook and line.

Authority

   The provisions of this §  63.6 amended under the Fish and Boat Code, 30 Pa.C.S. §  2102.

Source

   The provisions of this §  63.6 adopted May 23, 1980, effective January 1, 1981, 10 Pa.B. 2051; amended January 23, 1981, effective January 24, 1981, 11 Pa.B. 422; reserved March 5, 1982, effective March 6, 1982, 12 Pa.B. 870; amended January 6, 1984, effective January 7, 1984, 14 Pa.B. 46; amended July 12, 1985, effective July 13, 1985, 15 Pa.B. 2578; amended February 3, 1989, effective February 4, 1989, 19 Pa.B. 405; amended October 31, 1997, effective November 1, 1997, 27 Pa.B. 5605; amended February 27, 2004, effective February 28, 2004, 34 Pa.B. 1231 and 1232; amended June 10, 2011, effective January 1, 2012, 41 Pa.B. 2950; amended March 21, 2014, effective March 22, 2014, 44 Pa.B. 1762. Immediately preceding text appears at serial pages (367862) and (356959). "

"§ 63.10. Ice fishing.

 (a)  Ice fishing is fishing through holes in the ice.

 (b)  It is unlawful while ice fishing to use more than five fishing devices, which may consist of rods, hand lines, tip ups or any combination thereof. Each device shall contain a single fishing line. There is not a restriction on the number of hooks that may be used for ice fishing, except when fishing in the Pymatuning Reservoir where no more than three hooks shall be attached to each line used in fishing.

 (c)  Rods, lines and tip-ups used in ice fishing shall be under the immediate control of the person using the same.

 (d)  It is unlawful to fish through holes in the ice that measure more than 10 inches between the farthest points as measured in any direction.

Authority

   The provisions of this §  63.10 amended under section 10 of the Sunshine Act (65 P. S. §  280); section 506 of The Administrative Code of 1929 (71 P. S. §  186); and under the Fish and Boat Code, 30 Pa.C.S. §  2102.

Source

   The provisions of this §  63.10 adopted January 6, 1984, effective January 7, 1984, 14 Pa.B. 46; amended November 5, 1999, effective November 6, 1999, 29 Pa.B. 5717; amended February 27, 2004, effective February 28, 2004, 34 Pa.B. 1231; amended March 21, 2014, effective March 22, 2014, 44 Pa.B. 1762. Immediately preceding text appears at serial pages (342711) to (342712) and (317919).

Cross References

   This section cited in 58 Pa. Code §  63.6 (relating to authorized devices for game fish, baitfish and fishbait). "

Offline JMZ

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #13 on: Feb 15, 2021, 07:38 PM »
I was fishing at Winola yesterday and talking to a guy that recently got a fine there for using a JawJacker. I told him I thought they were just giving warnings but he said the PF&BC officer claimed he had already given him a warning. He said it must have been a case of mistaken identity because he had just bought the JawJacker and it was his first time using it. He said he tried to explain that the officer must be mistaken that he had never got a warning because it was his first time using it, but the officer didn’t want to hear it. He said the guy was a real @$$!  ::)

So I guess you can’t count on getting a WARNING that first time!  >:(

I believe that something is legal in America unless they can prove it is illegal by law. As far as this discussion goes, it seems there is nothing in the books making automatic hooking devices illegal. So, the warden should not give you a warning for something that is not illegal. They can tell you that the devices may become illegal, but they should not harass you and make you stop using them, because if they do, that is illegal. Get their name and badge number and report them. They should know the law, and not interpret it in their own mind.
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Offline RuttNutt

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #14 on: Feb 16, 2021, 11:43 AM »
When I contacted them and if you listen to the meeting they actually stated that only APPROVED devices (spelled out in the regulations) are legal for use in Pa. So if it is not specifically in the regulations, then it is NOT legal. That is what they are sticking to.................... ...................... ...
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Offline JMZ

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #15 on: Feb 16, 2021, 09:57 PM »
Well it seems to me that a jaw jacker or automatic fishermen, which I use, can be considered a fishing pole. I'm calling my lawyer to ask: WINWIN1
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Offline TIME2FISH

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #16 on: Feb 17, 2021, 05:39 AM »
In the 1/20/2021 PA Fish&Boat Law Enforcement Committee meeting, Col. Cory Britcher made a statement "Under Title 58, section 63.6 authorizes legal devices and methods and does not state what is illegal, only what is legal. So if it is not directly mentioned, you can not use it." I have a couple of questions, are my planer boards illegal because they are not mentioned and can I use my downriggers for ice fishing. The planer board, the downrigger and the Jawjacker all have line releases. The downrigger's line release is under water and the other two are above water. BUT when a fish hits - all three act the same - the fish pulls the line from the release and the stored mechanical energy (in the form of elastic potential energy) causes the loaded rod to release. So, that's what I am going to write to the Fish&Boat commission for their April meeting.
https://pfbc.pa.gov/forms/contactUs.htm



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Offline chumster

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #17 on: Feb 17, 2021, 08:54 AM »
I see these guys are going to do what they want so I won’t try to persuade them. I will say that you know the rules already. Pay the fine or pay the lawyer. Your choice.

Offline theTUGistheDRUG

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #18 on: Feb 19, 2021, 03:13 PM »
In the 1/20/2021 PA Fish&Boat Law Enforcement Committee meeting, Col. Cory Britcher made a statement "Under Title 58, section 63.6 authorizes legal devices and methods and does not state what is illegal, only what is legal. So if it is not directly mentioned, you can not use it." I have a couple of questions, are my planer boards illegal because they are not mentioned and can I use my downriggers for ice fishing. The planer board, the downrigger and the Jawjacker all have line releases. The downrigger's line release is under water and the other two are above water. BUT when a fish hits - all three act the same - the fish pulls the line from the release and the stored mechanical energy (in the form of elastic potential energy) causes the loaded rod to release. So, that's what I am going to write to the Fish&Boat commission for their April meeting.
https://pfbc.pa.gov/forms/contactUs.htm

Planer boards will be made illegal because your valid argument does not fit their narrative. I just use an ifish pro and half the time I don't bring it because the weather is too cold and I dont want to deal with ice in the hole every 20 minutes.  Authority gonna authority...  I guess they are bored.

Offline Salmon Egg

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #19 on: Feb 20, 2021, 09:32 AM »
I'd fight the ticket. Make them prove that they are actually illegal in court and show exactly what law was broken.

I agree.  What County was the ticket in?

Offline Salmon Egg

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #20 on: Feb 20, 2021, 09:45 AM »
I agree.  What County was the ticket in?

I just noticed it’s Wyoming County.   If it was closer, I’d represent him for free. 

Offline TIME2FISH

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #21 on: Mar 12, 2021, 08:03 PM »
Planer boards will be made illegal because your valid argument does not fit their narrative. I just use an ifish pro and half the time I don't bring it because the weather is too cold and I dont want to deal with ice in the hole every 20 minutes.  Authority gonna authority...  I guess they are bored.
Well it looks like F&B finally added my planer boards to the new proposed regulations to make them legal after I've been using them for 40 years.



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Offline saphireblue99

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #22 on: Mar 16, 2021, 03:11 PM »
So I can kill a deer with a rifle, muzzleloader, inline, bow and arrow, crossbow, shotgun, pistol, Monday thru saturday, and a sunday, extended seasons, get multiple did I say MULTIPLE doe permits, shoot coyote with an AR15 , bazooka, >:( whatever, and I'm gonna get a ticket for catching a fish on a jawjacker?? The bottom line is they need to sell licenses, they will be legalized. This topic always makes peoples blood boil.

Offline WALL E GATOR

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #23 on: Mar 16, 2021, 03:34 PM »
boy them guys out in Pennsylvania sure do live up to that motto "Virtue, Liberty, Independance"

You are not a virtues fisherman if you use a Jawjacker.
You are not at Liberty to use a Jawjacker.
Independance of fisherman doing something we can't define but we can ticket.

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Offline Spider1

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Re: JawJacker warning!
« Reply #24 on: Mar 17, 2021, 05:47 AM »
LOL, not so sure about the bazooka thing, but you can use an M82, it'll work ;D

And you CAN use a jawjacker… you, know... for coyotes.  ;)

Offline hardwater diehard

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Offline hardwater diehard

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