Author Topic: Snow Dog Track Sled  (Read 112557 times)

Offline Poco+loco

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #240 on: Dec 11, 2018, 01:23 AM »
The "sled Skates" that they sell as an accessery item work great.

Offline buckzone101

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #241 on: Dec 11, 2018, 05:40 AM »
Getting my parts together to build one.. best motor size... gearing... comet cv belt clutch? Centrifigal chain clutch.... best quickest easiest way to do this? Best place to get longer cables?
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Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #242 on: Dec 11, 2018, 05:56 AM »
The "sled Skates" that they sell as an accessery item work great.

I have considered the skates but wonder if I need them on each sled? The one I stand in and the ones I am towing?

Gam
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Offline Fisherman 1

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #243 on: Dec 11, 2018, 08:44 AM »
Getting my parts together to build one.. best motor size... gearing... comet cv belt clutch? Centrifigal chain clutch.... best quickest easiest way to do this? Best place to get longer cables?

Longer cables, probably an ATV or Motorcycle shop,  they can be made to order.

Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #244 on: Dec 11, 2018, 09:18 AM »
Longer cables, probably an ATV or Motorcycle shop,  they can be made to order.

YUP! You can also buy kits to make your own and probably at Rockymountain ATV or maybe Pro Cycle.

Gam
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Offline metalbender

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #245 on: Dec 11, 2018, 09:35 AM »
I used bicycle cables and brake levers. As for the clutch,  my first one wirh 7 hp had a centrifical clutch, worked ok but had it smokin' on numerous occasions. Limited to about 9 hp with a smaller one. Hd units are pricey.   The two to one clutch/gearbox does well with low speed gearing, still needs to hook up quick to limit slip time. If I were to build another, my choice will be a variable pulley type, larger than the common mini bike one though. A twenty inch wide track is far more stable than a fifteen.

Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #246 on: Dec 11, 2018, 09:59 AM »
I used bicycle cables and brake levers. As for the clutch,  my first one wirh 7 hp had a centrifical clutch, worked ok but had it smokin' on numerous occasions. Limited to about 9 hp with a smaller one. Hd units are pricey.   The two to one clutch/gearbox does well with low speed gearing, still needs to hook up quick to limit slip time. If I were to build another, my choice will be a variable pulley type, larger than the common mini bike one though. A twenty inch wide track is far more stable than a fifteen.

The Snowdog uses a CVT very similar to what I had on my Polaris ATV and the RZR and also the same as on many snowmobiles. I would have to say this is the pulley type you mention that transfers engine power from the rubber belt that raises as the RPMs increase and then it transfers that through a jack shaft to a chain driven sprocket set up. I would suspect there are gearing changes one could make by swapping various sprocket combinations to either go slower with a great deal more torque or go a lot faster if that is what you want. I am actually quite satisfied with this system as it is but I know from my dirt bike days that a couple tooth change in a sprocket can make a lot of difference one way or the other.

Gam
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Offline Team Rapo

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #247 on: Dec 11, 2018, 11:32 AM »
If I could do it over I would use the comet 40 series.
Make your own cables, Brake levers and housing and cable all purchasesble from a bicycle store.

I used a 7hp motor pull start, 150$ cdn

Easiest way to do it. Butcher an old sled with a good track.

Offline metalbender

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #248 on: Dec 11, 2018, 12:07 PM »
The slightly beefier comet 40 has a smaller belt than a sled, also made to operate within the small engine rpm range. Could be a challenge getting the sled variable to hook up at low rpm. From my understanding, the small series comet only really drives on one side of the belt, something to do with the angle of the belt face being different from side to side. Russian tube vids have shown critical  belt failures with the small units.

Offline Poco+loco

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #249 on: Dec 11, 2018, 07:14 PM »
I have considered the skates but wonder if I need them on each sled? The one I stand in and the ones I am towing?

Gam
Try putting them on 1 sled first, then switch the sleds around, front to back, back to front ,and see if additional ones are needed for the other one. One pair mounted in the back like the instructions recommend works for me.

Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #250 on: Dec 11, 2018, 07:36 PM »
Try putting them on 1 sled first, then switch the sleds around, front to back, back to front ,and see if additional ones are needed for the other one. One pair mounted in the back like the instructions recommend works for me.

Thanks! I drag at least one of my pop ups behind my stand up sled. Either a 2 man Clam Guide model when by myself or the bigger Otter pro resort when fishing with my buddies. Kind of hope that 2 pairs, one on each shanty sled in the back will do the trick. Last year I did tow my stand up sled with me in it and three other shanty sleds on glare ice. No problem at all with power for the pulling but man was it wild with the far back sled off to the side and trying to spin the entire train out. I had to continue to our spot at under 5 MPH just to keep all the sleds behind the dog and even then the rear one kept trying to pass me on one side or the other.

Gam
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Offline Team Rapo

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #251 on: Dec 12, 2018, 05:23 AM »
The slightly beefier comet 40 has a smaller belt than a sled, also made to operate within the small engine rpm range. Could be a challenge getting the sled variable to hook up at low rpm. From my understanding, the small series comet only really drives on one side of the belt, something to do with the angle of the belt face being different from side to side. Russian tube vids have shown critical 
belt failures with the small units.
I am making the 30series work without blowing belts and I’m happy, I think the 40 series would be better to operate with a small engine.
I don’t think the juice would be worth the squeeze to try and change a snowmobile clutch to engage at the proper rpms required for a small 4stroke. That would probably be difficult to make happen.

The 30 series is asymmetrical and does only drive one side. Pretty cool, different that typical belts and clutches.I bought a genuine comet and have only burnt one belt. That was when I had no idea how to gear it properly and was running the machine hard up and down hills with the belt cover on and she got too hot, cover off and gearing changed to the opposite side of the spectrum.
Ie. I went from a 14 tooth sprocket on jackshaft to a 72 lol  I haven’t been able to burn one out since. I’m gonna try and modify the cover for more airflow and reinstall and see if I’m still good to go.

Offline buckzone101

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #252 on: Dec 12, 2018, 05:10 PM »
Still getting the same performance or better? And what are ya running on the clutch side? Pics of your build? Im interested in talking with you 1 on 1 if ya dont mind.. iv got a ton of questions
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Offline VenomInjected

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #253 on: Dec 24, 2018, 11:27 AM »
Anyone else make their own snow dogs?   Is there a target snowmobile that works the best?  (some newer ones I see online seem that the front is nose diving into the ground and almost plowing right from the get go.

Looking at making my own this off-season and will start part collecting now.  (Own a welder, and restore cars for a hobby so this "should" be within my grasp).

Offline Stickhick86

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #254 on: Dec 24, 2018, 11:36 AM »
Anyone else make their own snow dogs?   Is there a target snowmobile that works the best?  (some newer ones I see online seem that the front is nose diving into the ground and almost plowing right from the get go.

Looking at making my own this off-season and will start part collecting now.  (Own a welder, and restore cars for a hobby so this "should" be within my grasp).


I've seen a video where someone repurposed a tracked snowblower to accomplish what you are thinking about doing. they just took the snow auger and blower off of it. Seemed to work pretty well.
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to ice fish, have his wife mad for ever.

Offline VenomInjected

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #255 on: Dec 24, 2018, 12:21 PM »
I've seen a video where someone repurposed a tracked snowblower to accomplish what you are thinking about doing. they just took the snow auger and blower off of it. Seemed to work pretty well.

Old snowmobile seems to be the way to go...



Offline bowmandan

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #256 on: Dec 24, 2018, 12:25 PM »
What size engines are on the snow dog? Also what size snowmobile would be big enough? I have an old Yamaha 250 exciter would that be big enough

Offline Gunflint

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #257 on: Dec 24, 2018, 12:27 PM »
My snowdog is 13 hp.
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Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #258 on: Dec 24, 2018, 01:07 PM »
The final drive on our Snowdogs is a roller chain and sprockets. From the engine to the CVT is a rubber belt. If I was building one on an old snowmobile track I would try to mount the engine as close to directly over the middle of the track as possible and then if you use a chain and sprockets to transfer the power to the track you can use what ever length chain it ends up needing. The one pictured above appears to me to be very weight forward with all the heavy stuff right at the very front. If it works then all is fine but it does seem to be front heavy IMO. Keep in mind that snowmobiles have skis out front that keep the front end up and a rider or two on the back that levels it out while the No Ski and NO Rider approach might cause undue wear right up in the front. Move the weight back so it is over the middle of the track would be my advice if that is possible. The more of the track that is evenly disbursed with weight on it the better.

Gam
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Offline VenomInjected

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #259 on: Dec 24, 2018, 01:49 PM »
The final drive on our Snowdogs is a roller chain and sprockets. From the engine to the CVT is a rubber belt.
Gam

Seems the same setup the homemade guys are using also.

Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #260 on: Dec 24, 2018, 02:16 PM »
On that one I see no reason why the motor could not be mounted further back and just with a longer roller chain. My 13.5 HP Snowdog will cruise along at a little over 20 MPH and believe me, that is plenty fast enough.
If I was building one from an old track I would concentrate on weight distribution as close to directly over the center of the track and the lowest possible center of gravity. What I find the very best with these types of machines is the pulling power. A snowmobile is basically pushing the machine forward kind of like a rear wheel drive vehicle while these machines are pulling more like a front wheel drive. I was absolutely amazed with my Snowdog the day I went out with 3 buddies who all have pop up shanties and gear sleds plus with my 2 shanties. As long as I had traction under the track to get the load moving I don't believe the dog even noticed how much weight was being pulled. It had plenty of power to even pull a heavy load up a steep launch ramp but traction under neath the unit was the only real issue.

Gam
If I agreed with you we would both be wrong!

Offline Team Rapo

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #261 on: Dec 28, 2018, 08:23 PM »
Still getting the same performance or better? And what are ya running on the clutch side? Pics of your build? Im interested in talking with you 1 on 1 if ya dont mind.. iv got a ton of questions

Performance is great, going from a 12 tooth on clutch to a 72 tooth on the sprocket on jack shaft, remember the jack shaft transfers to axle shaft with whatever gear reduction the original sled came with, plus reverse.

As far as engine placement, when using an old snowmobile chassis to build on. The chain case is heavy and off centred, the engine must be placed perfectly to counteract the weight of the chaincase. If not your machine I’ll lean hard in one direction when on nice flat ice. It’s annoying and seems unfinished, balance is a lot more noticeable when on a trail and not perfectly flat ice. As far as chain length, the longer it is the more sloppy it is and more it will stretch, then you get into a situation for an idler is a must for tension, it’s just more work, if your side and front to back balance can be maintained ithout moving the engine very far back then there is lots of room for storage in the rear of dog.

 My dad and I have Built a second one I’ll try and add a couple photos. This time it’d a reversing transmission and a 5hp Honda driving centrifugal clutch.

Offline Poco+loco

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #262 on: Dec 29, 2018, 01:38 AM »
Just a thought for us with a dog without a reverse gearbox. Why don't we try driving our dogs on to a dolly with wheels of some sort of the appropriate size? might make it easier when storing , or retrieving in the corner of a garage or shed.

Offline Team Rapo

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #263 on: Dec 30, 2018, 06:02 PM »



Couple vids of playing around on glare ice, drives straight well but a sharp turn gives a whip like tubing behind a boat.

Offline Team Rapo

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #264 on: Dec 31, 2018, 08:31 AM »
Just a thought for us with a dog without a reverse gearbox. Why don't we try driving our dogs on to a dolly with wheels of some sort of the appropriate size? might make it easier when storing , or retrieving in the corner of a garage or shed.

Good idea! I bet a mechanics “creeper” for working under cars would fit the bill.

Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #265 on: Dec 31, 2018, 08:52 AM »
Nice videos and on my first trip out on glare ice I found the same slip sliding and it was a lot of fun. Not so much fun when I was pulling my stand up sled and three pop up shanty sleds behind me that just wandered all over like wagging the dog and spinning me out. Once I added the Kold Kutter ice screws to the track the dog behaved perfectly but sleds behind still want to go in different directions. Snowdog sells Sled Skates you can add to the bottom of sleds that should keep them in line, go to accessories here. https://snowdog.com/products/access/. For the skis on snowmobiles I know you can add carbide runners that would also work and maybe even better.
I was very impressed that the Snowdog track with no studs at all was able to get up and go just fine on glare ice but the ice screws just add a great deal more stability and added traction. Either way I will caution all when playing around on glare ice. If the dog is sliding sideways and you hit a patch of snow that grabs the track you could flip it pretty quick.

Gam
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Offline DR.SPECKLER

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #266 on: Dec 31, 2018, 03:47 PM »
Thats setup in the vid is a great idea with keeping the stock gear case/drivetrain for a premade jackshaft.the cvt clutch to a smaller/medium jackshaft sprocket being its already geared right at the original snowmobile drivetrain side.how would you get the sprocket on the drive shaft where the old torque converter was to stay on?have it keyed because i know the set screw wont hold.tack weld?thinking about starting making one of these.

Offline Team Rapo

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #267 on: Dec 31, 2018, 05:38 PM »
Thats setup in the vid is a great idea with keeping the stock gear case/drivetrain for a premade jackshaft.the cvt clutch to a smaller/medium jackshaft sprocket being its already geared right at the original snowmobile drivetrain side.how would you get the sprocket on the drive shaft where the old torque converter was to stay on?have it keyed because i know the set screw wont hold.tack weld?thinking about starting making one of these.

I’m currently running the comet 30 series and it’s a bit undersized, I would go with a 2:1 wet clutch or a comet 40 series if I could do it again.

The CVT has a shaft that the secondary (driven) pulley is on, it also has a sprocket that drives the chain that drives the original Jackshaft of the snowmobile. A princess auto hub and sprocket and tack weld keeps the biggest sprocket I could get from the store onto the shaft. It’s got lots of torque and goes about 20km/h

Gamalot, I also added screws to my track, just atv screw in ones. I put 30 into the 121” track and it works well,
I just towed my biggest train yet but we have just got about an 1” of snow. No issues.

Offline Hotlipsowilly

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #268 on: Jan 14, 2019, 07:59 AM »
I have the 13.5 standard with reverse. Took it out for the first time icefishing and had to leave it on the trailer. For some reason fuel is dripping fast when I open the fuel valve and choke. She worked fine a few days before. ALSO, does anyone else have a hard time starting the snowdog when it's cold out? Takes me 5 or so turns before I can start the engine.

Offline Gamalot

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Re: Snow Dog Track Sled
« Reply #269 on: Jan 14, 2019, 08:27 AM »
I have the 13.5 standard with reverse. Took it out for the first time icefishing and had to leave it on the trailer. For some reason fuel is dripping fast when I open the fuel valve and choke. She worked fine a few days before. ALSO, does anyone else have a hard time starting the snowdog when it's cold out? Takes me 5 or so turns before I can start the engine.

Sounds like a stuck needle valve under the float and a pretty typical issue especially if you use ethanol fuel in small engines. Mine did it once after fishing all day on the way home in the trailer. I learned quick to shut the fuel petcock off every time after running. Hard starting could also be attributed to junk fuel since ethanol does not have the same BTU ratings as real pure gas does. I recommend 91 octane real gas with a double dose of Sea Foam fuel stabilizer in every tank simply because these machines are subject to sit idle for long periods between trips. Almost all small engine manufacturers recommend against using ethanol fuel in their engines and many sell pure gas at their shops if non E gas is not available in your area. We have stations here that carry pure gas just for us, motor boats and lawn and garden equipment. My electric generator won't even start if I use E gas in it but fires right up with 91 Non E.

Gam
If I agreed with you we would both be wrong!

 



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