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Author Topic: Ice-less equipment question.  (Read 673 times)

Gamalot

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Ice-less equipment question.
« on: Oct 28, 2017, 11:33 AM »
A question for those who do a lot of trolling spring, summer and fall.

I still have all of my down rigger rods and reels from when I lived up by Lake Ontario and fished a lot for trout and salmon. My reels are all Daiwa Sealine level winds # 27H and #27SH. The SH designates Super High speed. Here is the question and I can't find the answer. Side by side both the 27H and SH are identical in every outside appearance except the SH model has a larger handle. Is this the only difference? Would this mean if I buy a couple of the larger handles I can change my 27H reels into 27SH reels?

I don't think it makes all that much difference and both models of these reels are great for trolling my local reservoirs for trout and walleyes. It does seem to make sense if you install a larger crank handle it will increase the retrieve speed of any reel. I just don't see any outward difference in the basic reels where they could have used larger gears inside.

I know this has nothing to do with ice fishing but I also know there are a bunch of us who fish all seasons and while we are gearing up for hunting or out with our bows now we still like to shoot the breeze while we await the ice we all hope gets here quick.

Gam 
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kasilofchrisn

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #1 on: Nov 14, 2017, 12:30 PM »
Outward appearances really don't mean much.
Most reels it is the size of the internal gears that determines the speed of the reel.
Gear ratios are what they call it.
Handle length won't change your speed much.
KasilofChrisN
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ice dawg

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #2 on: Nov 14, 2017, 01:34 PM »
I would say the 27SH has a longer handle to produce more leverage when turning the higher ratio gears.
It seems to go from zero to hero all some have to do is lie.

Gamalot

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #3 on: Nov 14, 2017, 01:51 PM »
I wish there was a way to find the right answer! I am unable to pull up the parts lists for both reels to figure out if the gears are different. I do see on Ebay a lot of the parts for both the 27H and 27SH are the same. Daiwa has not answered my question I sent to them a month ago and I suspect if they ever do answer they will just tell me the reels are out of production and they no longer stock the parts. You would think if the SH has a larger internal gear set or ratio that the side covers that house the gears would be different but this does not appear to be the case. Both look identical from the outside. Tearing the reels apart would certainly answer the question but unless one of them brake and need to be repaired I have no intention of fixing what is not broken.
Regarding the larger handle, I do agree it does give more leverage but I just don't know if it could change the retrieve ratio. The mystery continues and thanks to all who have input.

Gam
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hardwater diehard

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Gamalot

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #5 on: Nov 14, 2017, 02:06 PM »
Thanks HD. I have no idea how or where you found it but I hope you might be able to locate the one for the 27SH so I can compare. I am data limited here on a satellite internet connection and not real swift in searching for this stuff.

Gam
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hardwater diehard

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #6 on: Nov 14, 2017, 02:14 PM »
Thanks HD. I have no idea how or where you found it but I hope you might be able to locate the one for the 27SH so I can compare. I am data limited here on a satellite internet connection and not real swift in searching for this stuff.

Gam

I believe the "S" stands for super...if that helps ...if I find something on the SH  model I  will post
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Gamalot

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #7 on: Nov 14, 2017, 02:25 PM »
I believe the "S" stands for super...if that helps ...if I find something on the SH  model I  will post

YES! 27H is (High Speed) and the SH is (Super High Speed).

I will greatly appreciate it if you can find it because I can't.

Gam
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hardwater diehard

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #8 on: Nov 14, 2017, 02:32 PM »
Did you try requesting a manual via this Email address

CSR@Daiwa.com

I messaged Daiwa on FB concerning a diagram and the difference between both models if they reply I will post.
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Gamalot

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #10 on: Nov 14, 2017, 03:45 PM »
according to this, they use the same handles now
http://stores.tunasreeltroubles.com/1-1a-daiwa-b20-8401-e23-3301-handle-assembly-for-sealine-27h-27sh/

manuals
http://schematics.mikesreelrepair.com/thumbnails.php?album=8&page=1

http://schematics.mikesreelrepair.com/thumbnails.php?search=Daiwa+Sealine&submit=search&album=search&title=on&newer_than=&caption=on&older_than=&keywords=on&type=AND

Thanks 3300. So now I have both the schematics for the 27H and the 27SH reels but there simply is no rhyme or reason or a way to compare part numbers because they are completely different numbers. I can tell you for sure the handles are both different but are interchangeable on both models. The SH comes with a longer crank the the H model but both fit.
I would think the gears that could make a difference would be the drive gear and the pinion gear. Too bad Daiwa uses completely different part numbers in both reels so there is no way to actually know if they are different without having them in my hand to match against each other. Drive gear for the H is # B10-4101 and for the SH is # E23-3201. Pinion gear for the H is # B26-9701 and for the SH is # E23-3001. Damn! >:(

I did email Mikes reel repair to see if he knows the difference and would be willing to bet I can make the 27H models into the 27SH just by changing a couple parts that probably will fit right in.

Just for the fun part of all of this, isn't it strange how us old retired guys who were and still are and always will be tinkering with our toys in an effort to make them have more speed, more power or just be a little better when we have all this time to play.

I started out with one down rigger and bought to rods and reels to run off of it, they were the 27H reels. The following year I bought another down rigger and 2 more rods and reels to use on it but the new reels were the 27SH models. Great reels BTW but the SH is just a hair faster.
If I agreed with you we would both be wrong!

hardwater diehard

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #11 on: Nov 14, 2017, 03:50 PM »
Heard back from Daiwa

the 27SH is a 4.6:1 gear ratio and the 27H is 3.8:1
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Gamalot

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #12 on: Nov 14, 2017, 04:24 PM »
Heard back from Daiwa

the 27SH is a 4.6:1 gear ratio and the 27H is 3.8:1

That sounds about right and in real time retrieval it equates to just a few more cranks when I have 150 feet of line out behind the boat. That BTW is why I am researching this stuff. There is some art involved in trolling and the two different reel models do change some of the variables to get it right. Like with all the newer model Line counter reels. No one can tell you what exactly they are counting and if you have different line counting reels you get different line length counts. Fishing this way is becoming science and math with all this new fangled stuff. Running color coded lead line is just so much easier than guessing how far back each lure is behind the boat from different reels.

Gam
If I agreed with you we would both be wrong!

3300

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #13 on: Nov 15, 2017, 12:20 AM »
parts with pictures. maybe help you see the differences.
http://stores.tunasreeltroubles.com/search.php?search_query=27SH&Search=

Gamalot

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #14 on: Nov 15, 2017, 06:36 AM »
parts with pictures. maybe help you see the differences.
http://stores.tunasreeltroubles.com/search.php?search_query=27SH&Search=

Thanks again 3300. They do show the drive and pinion gears for the 27-SH model but not for the 27-H model.

They also say the reel parts are obsolete. I have asked if the drive and pinion gears for the 27-SH will fit in the 27-H but once again, No Answers.

Gam
If I agreed with you we would both be wrong!

3300

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #15 on: Nov 15, 2017, 08:14 AM »
not sure who is saying they are obsolete. i have the two gears in my cart. it would cost 11$ to see if they fit? probably some shipping, but can't be that much. may be worth the effort to experiment on your own to see if they fit. it looks like the rest of the parts are universal?

Your Shopping Cart
Proceed To Checkout
The contents of your shopping cart have been updated.
Cart Items    Qty    Item Price    Total    
Subtotal
   
$10.98
Estimate Shipping & Tax
Grand Total $10.98
     A-1 DAIWA E23-3201 DRIVE GEAR FOR SEALINE 27SH*
   
   $5.99    $5.99    
 
     DAIWA E23-3001 PINION GEAR SEALINE 27SH*
   
   $4.99    $4.99
http://stores.tunasreeltroubles.com/search.php?search_query=27SH&Search=

Gamalot

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #16 on: Nov 15, 2017, 08:29 AM »
not sure who is saying they are obsolete. i have the two gears in my cart. it would cost 11$ to see if they fit? probably some shipping, but can't be that much. may be worth the effort to experiment on your own to see if they fit. it looks like the rest of the parts are universal?

Your Shopping Cart
Proceed To Checkout
The contents of your shopping cart have been updated.
Cart Items    Qty    Item Price    Total    
Subtotal
   
$10.98
Estimate Shipping & Tax
Grand Total $10.98
     A-1 DAIWA E23-3201 DRIVE GEAR FOR SEALINE 27SH*
   
   $5.99    $5.99    
 
     DAIWA E23-3001 PINION GEAR SEALINE 27SH*
   
   $4.99    $4.99
http://stores.tunasreeltroubles.com/search.php?search_query=27SH&Search=

Good plan but if I knew for sure these two gears fit and make the H into an SH I would buy 4 sets and upgrade all 4 of my 27H reels. I have to ask. You have those parts in your Cart but are you planning on buying them or just checking availability?

Gam
If I agreed with you we would both be wrong!

3300

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #17 on: Nov 15, 2017, 08:32 AM »
just trying to help out. i don't have that reel.
i can put in your zip if you want final costs.

you can email the owner. see what restocking fees if any are or if they would work with you.  andycopenhaver@hotmail.com
phone 231.907.0052

here is their form to have reels worked on. http://www.tunasreeltroubles.com/Reel_Submission_Form.pdf

Gamalot

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #18 on: Nov 15, 2017, 08:55 AM »
just trying to help out. i don't have that reel.
i can put in your zip if you want final costs.

you can email the owner. see what restocking fees if any are or if they would work with you.  andycopenhaver@hotmail.com
phone 231.907.0052

here is their form to have reels worked on. http://www.tunasreeltroubles.com/Reel_Submission_Form.pdf

YUP! I sent an email to Andy yesterday and hope he answers today. I will call him later if I don't hear from him. Much appreciate your assistance.
If I agreed with you we would both be wrong!

3300

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Re: Ice-less equipment question.
« Reply #19 on: Nov 15, 2017, 08:58 AM »
good luck! i think it might work out.

 


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