Re: Ice Hut Build...FINISHED!!! Feb21

[fishnwire]

Hey Folks...I'm new here.

I live in Sudbury, Ontario.  Work in the mines as an electrician and love fishing any time of year.  I hope to get to know some of you better over the next little while.

This year, I decided to commit myself (and a couple of dollars) to finally building the hut I've always wanted.  I've been in lots of huts and even worked on a couple with friends...I have a very definite idea of what I want and what I don't.  It's going to be 12'x8', fully insulated, and will sleep two comfortably.  It is destined for a section of the Lower French River called Hartley Bay, about an hour away from where I live.  I'll have to transport it there only once, it will spend summers on the shore of a friend's house located close by. 

I'm eager to share my progress and get feedback from others, so I'm starting this thread which I will update as need be.  Here goes...

The hut started with four 14 foot rough cut (actual dimension) 2"x10"'s.  I picked them up from a local sawmill.



The idea was to sister two together, creating two 14 foot 4"x10"'s.  They'd be the runners.  Then I'd notch them every two feet to a depth of 3.5" to accept 2x4 floor joists.  We started doing this in my Father-in-law's front room of his house.  We lined up all four on their edges and clamped them together, marked the spots for the joists and used a Skill saw to cut the notches, then drilled the holes for the bolts.  Then we took two at a time, applied PL Premium construction adhesive to one side, clamped them back together and fastened them with 4.5" long 1/2 inch bolts...pretty big bolts, I know.  But I got them for free.



Here's a "finished" one.





At this point my Mother-in-law started to complain about the sawdust and woodchips.  Frankly I'm surprised we got away with it as long as we did.  My Father-in-law gave his son a call and (I have a great brother-in-law) he agreed to give us use of his garage.  We packed up and headed over...



We still had to deepen the notches, as the skill saw blade was not deep enough by about 3/4 inch.  I used a hand saw and cut five or six notches in each notch, then we cleaned them up with a chisel. 



Then we cut the ends at an angle to form skis...



And here we have two completed skis...glued and bolted with notches done and the ends cuts.  They don't look like a big deal...but it was way more work and took much longer than I thought it would have, that's for sure.



Here's a close up of an end and a notch...



Tomorrow is another day...an update will follow.  I welcome all comments, questions and criticisms. 

BTW...I really hope I figured out how to post pics correctly.  If I haven't I'll soon find out I guess.



 

[Tomhusker]

 Those is some serious runners. Will hold a beefy unit for sure.

[OldSailor]

Like Norm Abrams of "New Yankee Workshop" says; "You can never have to many clamps!" 

[fishnwire]

Like Norm Abrams of "New Yankee Workshop" says; "You can never have to many clamps!" 

My Father-in-law would agree.  One of those 4x10's had a bit of a crown to it so we did what we could.

[fishnwire]

Those is some serious runners. Will hold a beefy unit for sure.

It's being built for comfort, not mobility.  That said, the runners are by far the "beefiest" part of the shack. 

[codewordcs1]

I'd like to believe that there's no such thing as "over kill"  I will say this though I've been building things for 16 years mostly houses but PL 400 is about the best thing to happen to builders since the power saw (IMO). I've done call backs and remodels and if you have to tear anything apart when PL was used you might as well plan on it coming apart in small pieces.  Looking good and look forward to seeing the progress and final product. 

And yeah you can never have too many clamps 

[jackinthebobhouse]

Yikes! Glad you get more ice than I do! Looks like it's gonna be heavy. How do you it out there? Pull it with a truck?

Jack

[wax_worm]

Is that treated lumber?  With it being in constant contact with snow and ice I wonder how long it will hold up before it warps or begins to rot if it is untreated?

[fishnwire]

Yikes! Glad you get more ice than I do! Looks like it's gonna be heavy. How do you it out there? Pull it with a truck?

Jack

I've got a Jeep Rubicon with decent winter tires that should have no problem pulling it around on the ice.  If I do have any issues my chum has a 3/4 ton diesel 4x4 pickup with a plow.  I've got a big tandem axle trailer lined up to get it from the work site to the river.

[fishnwire]

Is that treated lumber?  With it being in constant contact with snow and ice I wonder how long it will hold up before it warps or begins to rot if it is untreated?

It's rough cut, untreated lumber.  I've bought some Cabot Australian Timber Oil today and would have put it on except I noticed they were a little wet from when I drove them over in the rain this morning.  I've got the heater running in the garage right now and will be applying it first thing in the morning...before breakfast.

The 2x4 joists and plywood I have for the rest of the base is pressure treated though. 

[da man cave shack]

Good idea.

[fishnwire]

Nice start with the skis!

The skis and floor are the most important part of your hut.
What are you going to line the bottom of your skis with? teflon?

I'm going to a plastics manufacturing company tomorrow and see what they have.  I've heard UHMW is the cat's behind, but I've been warned it's a little costly.  I've also heard "puck board" is a good option.  A guy on a local message board told me to PM him and he may be able to help me out with some scraps from his work, so I guess I don't know what will be going on them yet.

[akdube]

If it were I, I would lay some 1/2" ply down on your joists then  2" blue board then 3/8" ply on top. We did this and it gets -30 regularly and The floor melts and dries out after 2 hours every time.  Shelving shelving shelving did I say shelving yet cause I meant to.

[fishnwire]

If it were I, I would lay some 1/2" ply down on your joists then  2" blue board then 3/8" ply on top. We did this and it gets -30 regularly and The floor melts and dries out after 2 hours every time.  Shelving shelving shelving did I say shelving yet cause I meant to.

I'm going to have 5/8 ply with 3 inch Plastispan insulation glued to the underside between the joists.  I was considering adding a shell of something over that, but I'm not sure it's necessary.

[akdube]

I'm going to have 5/8 ply with 3 inch Plastispan insulation glued to the underside between the joists.  I was considering adding a shell of something over that, but I'm not sure it's necessary.

You do that and youll be fine I wouldnt think you would need a shell over it....Shelving!!!!!!

[Bout-Time]

I suggest rounding the ends of the skis instead of the 45 or whatever angle you cut them at. I 45ed my skis and they dig in once in awhile. I wish I had rounded mine in the 1st place....

Your shack is off to an awesome start though!

[fishnwire]

I added the shell underneath my shack. i used 1/4 inch plywood to seal it up.

I guess for the effort required (an hour?) and then cost involved ($50?) that's something I should do.  I'll definitely think about it.

[fishnwire]

UPDATE...
-
I had a pretty good day today, things are taking shape.  Worked on the hut for a good five hours...it's not going as fast as I'd like, but good things take time, right?

I took the advice of others and rounded out my ski ends.  I measured three inches from the bottom corner in both directions, drew a line connecting them and cut that off with a Skil saw.  Here's one that I did to next to one I hadn't yet.



Then I took the power planer to it and rounded it off a little.



Next I applied wood protector...Cabot's Australian Timber Oil.  The rough cut lumber soaked up a ton of the stuff and I had to work it in with the brush to get all the nooks and crannies.  I didn't do the tops, bottoms, or notches because I'd be covering them with construction adhesive and wanted a clean surface.



Now we were able to start cutting the floor joists.  We used the miter saw and cut them all 93 inches (8 feet minus the 2x4's that would run on the ends perpendicular) then measured and marked them where they'd intersect with the runners, which we took of the bench and placed 48 inches apart (on centre.)



We started inserting the joists into the runners, checking our marks and making sure it was square as we went. 



Things looked good so we pulled them out one at a time, spread adhesive in the notches and put them back in.  Then we attached the 12 footers on the sides, spread more adhesive over the tops of the runners and joists, laid down the plywood, squared it up, and screwed it down.





So that's where I'm at now.  The floor needs to be flipped upside down (3 guys should have no trouble) so that the insulation can be fitted and glued.  I'll decide then whether or not I'll put a plywood skin on the bottom.  I'll also put some sliders on before I flip it back over.  I think I'm going to go with puckboard which I've found for sale nearby.

BONUS PIC!!!!!  This is the dog eating the left-overs from breakfast.



I'm not sure what we'll tackle tomorrow.  I think it'll just be my 79 year old Father-in-law and I there, so inverting the base might not happen.  If that's the case, we'll start on our stud walls and wait to finish the base when we have another couple of able bodies.  We just won't be able to put them up. 

There's a fair amount of framing involved...a window on each of three sides and the door on the other.  I'm tempted to use 2x3s instead of 2x4s but the Old Man is humming and hawing.  He knows a thing or two about carpentry but has a tenancy to overbuild things.  He is used to building for strength, with no regard to weight.  The outside skin will be 3/8 ply...and the inside will have blue-board insulation...I probably won't bother with any kind on interior paneling.  I'm planning on two foot centres...should I go with 2x4s, or could I get away with 2x3's?  I'd like to hear some opinions on the matter, if people have any.

More later...keep the comments and questions coming.  They are really helpful.   

[Bout-Time]

Looking superb so far FnW, the rounded skis should do alot better for you.

Forgot to welcome you aboard before, so WELCOME!

Id go 2x3, its going to be damn sturdy with those. Save weight where ever you can.

[S.M.05]

Favourite IceShanty post right here.

I love to build and no matter where I go I cant help but look at how things are built, always looking at peoples craftsmanship and tecniques.
Love the build so far. 

Your dad has the right mind set about building stuff solid.

I think weight has to be of some concern though and 2x3 studs on 24" center once sheathed with 3/8 ply will be plenty sturdy.
Remember this is not a real house, no second floor and a much smaller roof to support.

I would even go with 1/4 ply and just make sure my walls were well cross braced.

Puck board for the runners is a great idea.

Keep the pics coming they are like candy for me

[fishnwire]

Looking superb so far FnW, the rounded skis should do alot better for you.

Forgot to welcome you aboard before, so WELCOME!

Id go 2x3, its going to be damn sturdy with those. Save weight where ever you can.

Thanks for making me feel welcome.  Also, the rounded skis was something I really only seriously considered after getting feedback here...so thanks to everyone.

[boxcar]

this is great stuff. keep it coming, love seeing shacks being built.

thanks fishnwire

BOXCAR

[Bout-Time]

Thanks for making me feel welcome.  Also, the rounded skis was something I really only seriously considered after getting feedback here...so thanks to everyone.

I wish I had thought to round mine while building....

I just have a 4x8 and it fetches up quite a bit, cant imagine a 8x12 digging in. LOL

[fishnwire]

Favourite IceShanty post right here.

I love to build and no matter where I go I cant help but look at how things are built, always looking at peoples craftsmanship and tecniques.
Love the build so far. 

Your dad has the right mind set about building stuff solid.

I think weight has to be of some concern though and 2x3 studs on 24" center once sheathed with 3/8 ply will be plenty sturdy.
Remember this is not a real house, no second floor and a much smaller roof to support.

I would even go with 1/4 ply and just make sure my walls were well cross braced.

Puck board for the runners is a great idea.

Keep the pics coming they are like candy for me

I suggested 1/4 inch ply but the Old Man just about fell over.  He wanted 1/2 inch...3/8 was a compromise.  As far as the 2x3s go...you've made up my mind.  I might even try selling him on the idea of 1/4 ply.  With that base, there's not going to be a lot twisting taking place...at least I hope not.

Since you asked so nice, here's one more pic from today.  I"m not sure if you can tell, but that 12 foot 2x4 and the edge of the plywood are lined up exactly flat and square.  It's perfect.  I love the look of the glue oozing out too...you know there's a good amount of it in there doing it's thing.



Thanks for your interest and insight.

[codewordcs1]

Looking good  the great debate between strength and weight. If it were mine I'd go with weight cause it's not that big and lateral bracing will provide shear strength and you can get away with thinner plywood. Keep up the good work and continue to look forward to your progress. 

[Bout-Time]

If it were me, Id go 1/4 inch outside sheathing and panel the inside with luan.

This will give you a finished off look inside (my personal preferance), slightly warmer, and you can get more stuff hung on the walls easier. Theres gonna be tons of room in there to add creature comforts, so might as well be able to use the wall space!

[fishnwire]

If it were me, Id go 1/4 inch outside sheathing and panel the inside with luan.

This will give you a finished off look inside (my personnal preferance), slightly warmer, and you can get more stuff hung on the walls easier. Theres gonna be tons of room in there to add creature comforts, so might as well be able to use the wall space!

You make some good points...I'll be thinking about them while I'm trying to fall asleep tonight.

[Mainedog]

Make sure to put your windows low enough so you can see outside without getting up off your chair/bench etc.
What kind of windows are you planning? Insulated or not?  Double panes don't ice up so bad, but if you use wood
heat, and get it warm, any interior ice build up quickly melts.

I think you could jack my camp up, set it on those skis, and move it around....massive!

Make sure to have good ventilation so condensation won't bother you.  I am assuming you are going with a wood stove, no?

Always love looking at other folks designs and builds.  Gives me ideas for when I build my 4th shack some day.

Thanks for sharing,
MD

[fishnwire]

Make sure to put your windows low enough so you can see outside without getting up off your chair/bench etc.
What kind of windows are you planning? Insulated or not?  Double panes don't ice up so bad, but if you use wood
heat, and get it warm, any interior ice build up quickly melts.

I think you could jack my camp up, set it on those skis, and move it around....massive!

Make sure to have good ventilation so condensation won't bother you.  I am assuming you are going with a wood stove, no?

Always love looking at other folks designs and builds.  Gives me ideas for when I build my 4th shack some day.

Thanks for sharing,
MD

Oh yeah...you've been in a hut or two, haven't you?  Windows that are too high are one of the most common mistakes on ice huts for the exact reason you mention...who the heck want to stand up...or even have to crane their neck...to check a tip up every two minutes?  I made that mistake many years ago on another build and never will again.  Thanks for the head's up though...it's something you might not think of.  If you were building anything other than an icehut, you'd never consider putting your windows so low...so I guess it's something that often gets missed. 

I've got good insulated, double pane windows.  Two are 20"x48" (outside of frame) sliders and the other is (I forget now) about 16"x60".  The long thin one is going on the wall opposite the bench so that seated just about anywhere on it you will get kind of a panoramic view of the ice surface, starting 10-15 feet or so from the shack and hopefully going off to the horizon. 

The skis are fairly massive, yes...but believe it or not my Father-in-law and I were able to shift around the completed base six inches or so at a time, just the two of us, one one each end.

I'll have two sliding windows which I can regulate the ventilation with.  I figure I'll be fine with that.  I am hoping to go with a wood stove, but haven't found one yet.  I looked at a couple of used ones but they were not great and the owners wanted a fortune for them.  I might go with propane (at least for the first season) if I don't find something I like which doesn't cost and arm and a leg.

Thanks for the feedback, I'm pleased you've been enjoying the reports.

[fishnwire]

Update...Tuesday, November 29/2011

Well I made the decision...I'm going with 2x3s and 1/4 ply.  The 2x3s seem pretty light...I think their smaller size means they dry out more and have a lower moisture content.  I could be wrong, but they feel around half the weight of a 2x4.  Noticeably lighter anyway.  You can't get a 12 foot 2x3, four of which I require for headers and footers, so we had to splice them.  More on that later.



I could have got 3/8 unsanded ply for about $6 a sheet less than the 1/4 "one good side" I opted for.  I couldn't find the 1/4 in unsanded, but I'll want to paint or stain it anyway, so it's probably for the best.  Also, 1/4 ply is only two thirds the weight of 3/8s.

The nice thing is that we have the finished floor to work off of and use to keep everything lined up and square.  We want the plywood to extend past the footers and headers of the stud walls so it covers and can be glued and screwed to the floor and roof joists.  We're going to use the full eight feet, so we used the eight foot width of the hut to line things up.  We started by measuring what we need to extend to the floor joists, and clamped our footers that distance from the edge.



Then we did the same with the header, and put the corner joists in.  Next we positioned the window where we wanted it, and framed it. 



Then we had to deal with our splices for the header and footer.  The header has the four foot section on the left and the 8 foot section on the right, and the footer the opposite, so that the splices are "kitty-corner" to one another, and not one below the other.  Once the studs on either side of the seam were in place, we cut 2x3's to fit, and applied glue. 



Then we clamped them down and put the screws to them.





We left those to set and have about another half an hour of studding left until we can put the plywood on.  Then we'll take the finished wall outside and start the next one.

We did have a couple things go wrong today.  When we went to cut our second stud with my Brother-in-law's mitre saw, the blade guard's auto retract stopped working...it appears some spring is broken.  I had just seen a 10" laser sliding compound mitre saw and sale at Lowe's and said, "To heck with it", ran back there and picked it up.  I could have done without having to drop the cash but it is quite a nice saw and a joy to use.  I was planning on getting one sooner or later...sooner is OK.

The thing that really drove me nuts though was my Father-in-law and the screws he brought.  When we were making the shopping list he said, "Don't buy 3 inch wood screws...I have lots."  The problem was that they were all ones he used on concrete forms and reclaimed.  See anything wrong with these?





About a quarter of them were bent, and most of the other ones' recesses were either stripped or partially full of hardened concrete.  What a PITA!  I appreciate him helping me out with supplies, but I would have much rather just spent a couple a bucks and had screws I didn't have fight with.  I love having him around and his experience is often invaluable...but when he pulls that kind of stuff (which he does all the time) he drives me freakin' nuts!

I'm back at the mine for the next five days, 12 hour shifts...so I probably won't have much progress to report for a while.  I'd love to blow off a week or so, but if you added the lost pay to the cost of the build, I'd have to live in the hut to pay for my divorce lawyer.

Love the questions and comments from you folks...they keep my obsession focused.