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Author Topic: Hunt's minnows from Michael's wholesale bait are illegal in New York  (Read 15894 times)

Offline oneidawalleye

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The sales rep Craig from Michael's Wholesale Bait out of Massachusetts is telling all of his dealers in New York to dump their supply of Hunts Minnows since their certification is suspect. Heard that from many bait shops owners in the Sacandaga and Saratoga region. Would like to know if this is the REAL DEAL.

Offline Mr.Esox

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That's just great and we pay more for certified bait and have to toss after 7 days. I bought some of that bait I want a refund. I hope there isn't more of this going on because we the fisherman are getting ripped off with these bait prices. What a raquet.
Mr.Esox

Offline oneidawalleye

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Blame it on Michaels Wholesale Bait for selling it to the bait shops, NOT THE BAIT SHOP OWNERS FAULT

Offline coldbum

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Is there any more information on this? Is there another supply of hunts available?

Are any shops in the Fulton/Hamilton County area's affected?

Details please :)

JJ

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This is true, heard it directly from Craig. The hunts are certified, but the paperwork has them listed by the wrong species, they are trying to resolve this, but can't ship out any of the bait in question for the time being.

Offline yellabella

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does this mean that fish 307 is not going to have any on friday?

Offline duckman

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Do not worry fish 307 has got a lot of minnows.

Offline troutguy1377

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Does any one know when they will be available again ???

Offline BigEd

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Bought the last 3 doz. Hunts from my fav baitshop the other night.  He said they probably weren't going to be getting anymore this season.  I didn't know why until I read this!  What exactly is a Hunt calssified as?  If you look at the NYS Baitfish regs they are not listed.   ???   

Offline coldbum

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They are also called spottail shiners or notropis hudsonius.


Offline coldbum

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I talked with a friend close to DEC sources the other day about the hunts issue.

The issue seems to be that they (DEC) did not know what species hunts really are.

Apparently what we all thought were spottail shiners (notropis hudsonius)  were actually silver shiners (notropis photogenis).

Silver shiners are not on the approved bait list. This is stupid mistake that has cost all of our bait shops a lot of money!

Jim killed a whole fresh tank of them this week.

DEC is supposed to add the silver to the list for next year, we shall see...

Offline WALLEYES INC.

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Offline Nick94

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If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles

Offline holehawg

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i do believe this minnow nonsense is getting out of hand...has it been proven that this causes the disease ????????? or are they shooting in the dark with this...i never have really learned the truth on this...
............

Offline SpEeD

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If those silver shiners were tested and disease free what the heck is the DEC's problem with them then :cookoo:
Lurking for those hot-spots!  Gut any???

Offline coldbum

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From what I know yes indeed they were all "Certified."

This is only a problem on paper.  I think DEC should have crossed all the t's and dotted all the i's before they rubber stamped the certification paperwork. This could have been avoided.

All those bait fish that were killed, were perfectly healthy.

I understand the importance of the  new VHS laws. I value our resources as much as the next guy and would go to any length to protect them.

This was just dumb.

Offline waytkus

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My buddy owns a bait shop in Hudson Falls and said he wasn't even ordering icicles or "emeralds" this week because there is always hunts in with the icicles, and he would feel bad if a customer got a ticket because of this crap . Apparently hunts wern't listed as a baitfish that can be certified.

Offline coldbum

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Hrm, I am eager to hear what went on..

Offline Camp Bassfish

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Must not have paid off the EnviroMafia  AKA DEC or DEP etc....


Offline jay c

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Hrm, I am eager to hear what went on..
I was told there were mixed species in tanks.
I have posted this minute ago--------
They are one of two suppliers for Northen New York.
Nothing to laugh about.

Offline Hop-Sing

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The bait in question (nickname "hunts") were Eastern Silvery Minnow (Hybognathus regius). You can look them up by clicking on: http://fish.dnr.cornell.edu/nyfish/fish.html

The minnows in question in this thread (Eastern Silvery Minnow Hybognathus regius ) are NOT on the New York "Green List" which consists of: Golden shiner, Northern redbelly dace, Emerald shiner, Blacknose dace, Common shiner, Longnose dace, Spottail shiner, White sucker, Banded killifish, Northern hogsucker, Fathead minnow, Creek chub, Bluntnose minnow, Fallfish, and Logperch.

The permit issued by the DEC to import the load of "hunts" in question into NY (across state lines) was issued incorrectly. Thus the "hunts" in question were then legal classified (by default) as Uncertified Baitfish in New York and bait stores would have to obey this NY DEC regulation:

"Uncertified baitfish" are all those that have not been tested and found to be free of specified diseases. Uncertified baitfish purchased from a bait dealer can only be used on the same body of water from which it was caught and cannot be transported overland by a motorized vehicle (i.e. car). The seller is required to provide a receipt that names the water body in which the uncertified bait fish can be used and a warning to the purchaser that the baitfish may not be transported by car or other motorized vehicle.

Because NY retailers did not buy them under the correct permit-to-import, they could not provide a receipt that names the water body in which the uncertified bait fish can be used, and could not issue a warning to the purchaser that the baitfish may not be transported by car or other motorized vehicle. Thus, they had to be dumped.

Offline Captain1978

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Yep I was at a baitshop and saw the paperwork...It's true, the paperwork is screwy
EL CAPITANO !!!

Offline greg42

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Hop-Sing appears to do more than cook on the Ponderosa.....Nice touch

Offline Hop-Sing

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Two points to ponder:

a) As of yesterday the Feds and DEC were still up in the air whether the minnows in question were Silver Shiners (notropis photogenis) or Eastern Silvery Minnow (Hybognathus regius).

b) Easterns and spot-tails are harvested in the same manner and and can be found schooled-up from the same habitat, particularly in the Connecticut River back-waters. On casual examination, it is not uncommon for them to be mistaken for each other.

Offline DA-Bait

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I run a very small retail bait shop in Massachusetts-very small.  Have had Michael's as a supplier since we opened in March 2006, I have to say Michael's has always been very fair to us.  No matter how small our weekly order is he delivers, and at a very low delivery charge.
The raid on his shop was right out of the movies-the State and Feds spent 11 hours going over the place.  I'm not sure I really want my tax dollars being wasted that way.  I would have thought that a simple inspection would have sufficed, then a shut down until things got squared away.  My take on this is that somewhere in the past Michael really torqued off someone in the political establishment and whoever that was is still po'd.  It did not help that one of the employees (a son) was pinched in 2004 for a shady deal, after that I would have imagined that he would have told everyone in the organization to keep their nose clean. 
I think channel 40 and 22 out of Springfield MA has a vid of the raid and can be seen on the web sites.

Later,
DA-Bait Shop

Offline tafts ta

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I own a Tackle shop just over the NY border in Mass. I also used to be a sales rep for the Uncle Josh Bait Company in Wisconsin, do product demos at Bass Pro Shops accross the country, and be Conservation Director for the Massachusetts BASS federation.
I know what a pain in the butt all the new regs are about certified bait. I go through it with my customers everyday. But what I Can tell you is this. VHS is the real deal. I have seen lakes down south and in the midwest with 100% fishkill from it. I always hear people say "well my bait isnt dead so it must not have it". What people do not realize is that VHS does not show itself until the fish reaches breeding maturity and the sex organs are developed. VHS is also only one of a handful of diseases that are currently affecting lakes in the northeast. New York is on the forefront of what will soon be a nationwide requirement for bait certification within a few years.
I have spoken directly to Major Pajak from the Mass Environmental Police about the circumstances at Michaels. Just FYI to everyone, This is not the first Major Violation at Michaels, in fact it is the third in 10 years. That is why they EP's came down so hard so quick. Without being able to directly comment on an ongoing investigation he also informed me that the Hunts Minnow was not the only thing that they were looking for.
I have been informed by Major Pajak that it will be a minimum of 2 to 4 weeks before all is cleared up IF it gets cleared up. If you are a tackle shop, or know the owner of a tackle shop, you may want to try to locate another supplier of bait at least in the short term. Lets face it, as tackle shop owners we rely on ice fishing as a money maker for us, we only have a few weeks left in the season and if you are loyal to michaels or not, you need to cut hay while the sun is shining.
I do not want to post more info than is necessary about michaels because I like the people there and they have always been nice even if they are not the best at customer service. Anyone who reads this feel free to contact me with any questions and I can put you directly in touch with Major Pajak if you would like. I have his home and cell numbers so that I can reach him with concerns.
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Offline Hop-Sing

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If those silver shiners were tested and disease free, what the heck is the DEC's problem with them then :cookoo:
I am under the impression that some of the species of minnows to which we commonly attach the nickname 'silver shiners' are not on the NY "Green List."

So, inspected/certified or not, they can only be retailed as "uncertified bait" in NY.

Retailers in NY can sell uncertified bait IF and ONLY IF the retailer tells the buyer the specific waterbody they can be fished, restricted to the exact waterbody from which the bait was trapped.

But, if the retailer does not KNOW the exact waterbody from which the so-called silver shiners originated, the retailer cannot sell them. Period. Thus, they would have to be dumped.

Offline trapper2000

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I own a Tackle shop just over the NY border in Mass. I also used to be a sales rep for the Uncle Josh Bait Company in Wisconsin, do product demos at Bass Pro Shops accross the country, and be Conservation Director for the Massachusetts BASS federation.
I know what a pain in the butt all the new regs are about certified bait. I go through it with my customers everyday. But what I Can tell you is this. VHS is the real deal. I have seen lakes down south and in the midwest with 100% fishkill from it. I always hear people say "well my bait isnt dead so it must not have it". What people do not realize is that VHS does not show itself until the fish reaches breeding maturity and the sex organs are developed. VHS is also only one of a handful of diseases that are currently affecting lakes in the northeast. New York is on the forefront of what will soon be a nationwide requirement for bait certification within a few years.
I have spoken directly to Major Pajak from the Mass Environmental Police about the circumstances at Michaels. Just FYI to everyone, This is not the first Major Violation at Michaels, in fact it is the third in 10 years. That is why they EP's came down so hard so quick. Without being able to directly comment on an ongoing investigation he also informed me that the Hunts Minnow was not the only thing that they were looking for.
I have been informed by Major Pajak that it will be a minimum of 2 to 4 weeks before all is cleared up IF it gets cleared up. If you are a tackle shop, or know the owner of a tackle shop, you may want to try to locate another supplier of bait at least in the short term. Lets face it, as tackle shop owners we rely on ice fishing as a money maker for us, we only have a few weeks left in the season and if you are loyal to michaels or not, you need to cut hay while the sun is shining.
I do not want to post more info than is necessary about michaels because I like the people there and they have always been nice even if they are not the best at customer service. Anyone who reads this feel free to contact me with any questions and I can put you directly in touch with Major Pajak if you would like. I have his home and cell numbers so that I can reach him with concerns.


first vhs has only been confirmed in the great lakes basin and surrending waters !!!! what lakes are you taking about that had complete die offs? and i don't know where you get the idea that fish maturity has anything to do with the virus!

Offline Hop-Sing

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first vhs has only been confirmed in the great lakes basin and surrending waters !!!!
After it was first discovered in Lake Ontario in 2005, VHS spread rapidly to other Great Lakes waters. It is now found in the St. Lawrence River, Lake Erie, the Niagara River, Lake St. Clair, the Detroit River, Lake Huron, and Lake Michigan. VHS has already caused widespread fish mortalities in Lakes St. Clair, Erie and Ontario.

Michigan DNR determined it had spread into Lake Huron, as far north as Cheboygan and Rogers City.

It has spread to several inland waters w/o without any direct connection to the Great Lakes including Lake Butte des Morts and Lake Winnebago in Wisconsin, Budd Lake in Michigan, and several lakes and rivers in the NY Finger Lakes.

Offline trapper2000

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yes but thats not southern waters it has also been found in the fingerlakes  original believed to have  came from lake erie from  the bait industry (emerald shinners) now it's not that clear  i'm just interested he said southern lakes with complete kill off ,i live on lake ontario  and i assure you it wasn't a complete  kill also many waters have (fish) have tested positive with no die offs

 



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