Author Topic: Obsession with FF Technology  (Read 3331 times)

Offline zcm_82

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #30 on: Nov 28, 2022, 12:02 PM »
Last Monday... it wasn't -5 though  :roflmao: Generally 20-ish° is about my limit for sitting out in the open.



Offline Rebelss

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #31 on: Nov 28, 2022, 12:17 PM »
Wussy.   :roflmao:
“The mass of men live lives of quiet desperation”  Thoreau

Offline FishingFredrik

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #32 on: Nov 28, 2022, 12:31 PM »
So for those who like to go old school and not use technology.... Do you still drill your holes by hand auger? Do you use a flipover or popup shelter (tech) or do you still sit on a bucket in the open wind..... Just saying.... kinda of contradicting... each to their own. In the past couple years, I have embraced the sonars, I actually find it useful in understanding the fish behavior throughout the day (part of researching my target species). Other options are the lay of a lake (even ones I have been fishing on since I was 10). I now find myself exploring more of the lakes than the common places (easily accessible) that everyone else does (trying to stay away from public so I can enjoy the view). Individual says it's cheating.... Last I check it doesn't have some majestical whistle that calls in fish, it doesn't emit an odor to draw fish in, it doesn't tell you which lure, jig, or bait to stick down the hole, it doesn't make the jig twitch a certain way that's better, it doesn't set the hook, it doesn't reel in the line or fight the fish, it doesn't cuss when the fish breaks the line, it doesn't cuss when the fish is half way out of the hole and it shake the hook. All those things are upto the fisherman with or without tech....

Hi Fishing Cowboy,

You're absolutely right in what you say about sonars: they won't do the fishing for you.

I'm not sure your question above was rhetorical or not, but as a self-professed old-schooler, I pass no judgment on the use of technology (as I said on my previous post). None, zero. It's entirely about preference, which is personal, of course. In fact, I love the Navionics app and have greatly benefited from this technology. However, I still enjoy my ice fishing without a sonar or camera. That said, I'm not opposed to either.

But back to your question, yes, I still use a hand auger. In fact, I just bought myself a new NILS. I do not use a shelter and I kind of still sit on a bucket, or rather a light weight gear box that I carry on my shoulder. The reason I don't use a shelter is not based on some luddite, tech-related principle; it's just that I like to be ultra light and mobile when I'm on the ice. If the day comes when I conclude that ice fishing would be a lot more fun with said electronics, I'll be sure to acquire some. Not saying it can't happen, but I'm good for now.

Tight lines and be safe!

FF

Luck is only a small part of it.

Offline hnd

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #33 on: Nov 28, 2022, 02:47 PM »
the purpose of fishing is different for every single person.  Success or failure is also totally different.   I think its reasonable to question the eventuality of electronics in the fishing world but i think it will be ok. 

I also understand after a decade of ice fishing that i'm not like most fisherman.  We visit wisc,mn often to ice fish often and what I witness is that 90% of people out there, find a spot, drill a hole, and fish.  whether in a canvas shack or a hard camper type shack.  very little movement. sometimes they are biting and sometimes they are not.  FF tech seems like a ridiculous thing for them.  why would they need it.  again, success, failure, purpose is totally different than me perhaps. 

But I will also say that its often funny people with $30k+ boats telling ice fisherman they are ridiculous spending 2000 bucks on fishing electronics (obviously not accusing people here of doing this but it happens often).  I once took a buddy who fished the FLW bass tournaments when that was around ice fishing and he was like this is ridiculous...doesn't seem fair.  I was like your boat cost more than my first house and you have 4 giant screens to stare at the entire time!  his answer "touche". 

I will say one thing.  If i never got my first fl8, i'd of never continued ice fishing.   its such a night and day difference.  if you are set up over a local spot you have fished for 30 years and know there are fish and have fished forever, sure, there are times where it wouldn't be necessary, but if you fish a lot of new water which we enjoy doing, electronics will obviously increase your odds. 

I have a family which demands a ton of time.  so when i get an opportunity to fish, i want to find fish as soon as possible.  i also fish river systems and reservoir systems which move the fish around pretty good and require some searching before fishing.  the FF tech has allowed me to limit the search time and increase the fish time and thats important to me and has been worth the cost. 

Offline DTro

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #34 on: Nov 28, 2022, 02:56 PM »
I just think everyone needs to sit down and have a discussion with themselves and ask what you want to get out of fishing. 
Then go do what makes you happy and if you don't like what others are doing or saying, stop watching and listening.  Pay them no attention. 

Go do your thing and let them do theirs.   

This FF technology is only taking baby steps, just wait until it matures, I have a feeling you haven't seen anything yet.   

Offline bigfoot86

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #35 on: Nov 28, 2022, 06:49 PM »
So for those who like to go old school and not use technology.... Do you still drill your holes by hand auger? Do you use a flipover or popup shelter (tech) or do you still sit on a bucket in the open wind..... Just saying.... kinda of contradicting... each to their own. In the past couple years, I have embraced the sonars, I actually find it useful in understanding the fish behavior throughout the day (part of researching my target species). Other options are the lay of a lake (even ones I have been fishing on since I was 10). I now find myself exploring more of the lakes than the common places (easily accessible) that everyone else does (trying to stay away from public so I can enjoy the view). Individual says it's cheating.... Last I check it doesn't have some majestical whistle that calls in fish, it doesn't emit an odor to draw fish in, it doesn't tell you which lure, jig, or bait to stick down the hole, it doesn't make the jig twitch a certain way that's better, it doesn't set the hook, it doesn't reel in the line or fight the fish, it doesn't cuss when the fish breaks the line, it doesn't cuss when the fish is half way out of the hole and it shake the hook. All those things are upto the fisherman with or without tech....
But it does tell you where the fish are much easier.  I know there’s lot of push back on this topic to justify your purchase.  No more hunting or element of surprise.  Hardly a contradiction here but if that’s what you want to believe, then like you said, to each their own. 

Offline thomasthepikehunter

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #36 on: Nov 28, 2022, 07:47 PM »
I think it's ironic that in one breath someone has no problem with a flasher, but also hate side and down imaging, and now live scope. It's all the same thing, just technology moving forward. While it's true flashers have been around a while, they were pretty useless before Vexilar came on the scene with the FL-8 in the 90's. I used to fish with a Lawrence green box, and it could kind of see a bait, and the bottom sometimes flickered a little sometimes but not always, if a fish was there. For the most part it offered nothing. As far as I'm concerned the FL-8 was a monumental leap in technology. Down imaging is just a different version of the same thing. Side imaging is a definite change, but is it really that big a deal?

To be fair, I own most except live scope. My Humminbird Helix 8 on the boat has both side and down imaging, as well as the normal sonar. While it's cool, I have to admit I'm underwhelmed for the $1000 it cost me. It's a little easier to stay by weedlines with the side imaging is about all it has offered me. It has the potential to save a few drilled holes on the ice. It might even give a better picture of schools of fish. I like down imaging for seeing into weeds, but that's mostly a non-issue in the winter. Livescope looks cool, but it just looks like a more real time version of down imaging to me. You know what is already real time down imaging? Flashers.  ;D

I fished with an FL-8 for a long time. I finally got myself an FLX-20 last year. I love the thing, but it doesn't let me find fish any better. It is just easier to see, easier to use, better settings, interference rejection, etc.
-Tom

Offline bigfoot86

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #37 on: Nov 28, 2022, 09:55 PM »
Livescope and DI/SI are in no comparison.  Only way to use di/di is to be in boat moving, does nothing in stationary mode.

Offline thomasthepikehunter

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #38 on: Nov 28, 2022, 10:34 PM »
Both down imaging and side imaging work just fine on the ice, or stationary boat. Down imaging stationary is no different than any of the LCD display units that were a big fad in ice fishing maybe 5-10 years ago. I actually prefer it to normal sonar when jigging. I still think both are worthless compared to an instant feedback flasher. Side imaging works too, but you need the special 360 transducer for it.

Livescope is nothing but sonar with a much better display. I'm not seeing anything magic about it. I think you should try it before you write it off as unethical. It doesn't tell you where the fish are any easier than a Vexilar with a 19 degree transducer. If that is your reasoning, then you should hate side imaging, which has a side angle of something like 85 degrees., plus the resolution to actually tell a branch from a weed from a rock.
-Tom

Offline bart

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #39 on: Nov 29, 2022, 06:13 AM »
If a flasher is considered "old school", my rebellion against technology may not have been a complete failure!
"Many fish their entire lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after."-Henry David Thoreau
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Offline zcm_82

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #40 on: Nov 29, 2022, 06:14 AM »
You get makeup points for the spoon and lantern box  ;D

Offline filetandrelease

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #41 on: Nov 29, 2022, 06:47 AM »
You get makeup points for the spoon and lantern box  ;D
Lol , I give credit for the lantern box , ditch the spoon and get out the spud 😃
 Nice pic Bart
 

Offline bigfoot86

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #42 on: Nov 29, 2022, 08:30 AM »
Both down imaging and side imaging work just fine on the ice, or stationary boat.  Side imaging works too, but you need the special 360 transducer for it.

Livescope is nothing but sonar with a much better display. I'm not seeing anything magic about it. I think you should try it before you write it off as unethical. It doesn't tell you where the fish are any easier than a Vexilar with a 19 degree transducer. If that is your reasoning, then you should hate side imaging, which has a side angle of something like 85 degrees., plus the resolution to actually tell a branch from a weed from a rock.
Not even close, 360 and SI are kinda similar in theory but not.  SI you have to be in motion even if it’s 0.2 mph.  Yea you’ll get something to come up on the screen because it’s always trying to read but won’t have any clarity to what you are seeing.  Saying LS is just a much better display and that’s it is not even a comparison.  Your actually seeing live feed back WITH live movement from much great greater distance.  It’s like comparing apple and oranges.  Comparing a vex to a LS is almost laughable.  You should do some research on sonar angles and capabilities before you post.  If livescope was basically the same as SI/DI then why does almost every professional tournament boat angler have them on their boat?  It’s because if they didn’t, they would be left in the dust.  None other other sonars are in the same ballpark as LS.  The fact you say you can’t find fish any easier is just unbelievable, that’s the whole idea behind it.

Offline Rebelss

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #43 on: Nov 29, 2022, 08:40 AM »
Lol , I give credit for the lantern box , ditch the spoon and get out the spud 😃
 Nice pic Bart

Those stoopid spoons.....they went thru the ice from all the heat generated from spinning them!  ;D
“The mass of men live lives of quiet desperation”  Thoreau

Offline Iceassin

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #44 on: Nov 29, 2022, 08:41 AM »
Lol , I give credit for the lantern box , ditch the spoon and get out the spud 😃
 Nice pic Bart

X2. And ditch the flasher and grab a sounder. Takes you from "old school" back to "primitive".  ;D
"Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam circumspice."
 


Offline filetandrelease

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #45 on: Nov 29, 2022, 09:30 AM »
Those stoopid spoons.....they went thru the ice from all the heat generated from spinning them!  ;D
Omg lmao, ,  mine hangs on the wall
 
X2. And ditch the flasher and grab a sounder. Takes you from "old school" back to "primitive".  ;D
I still have sounders in a draw , and how did we manage without all the cool toys we have now
 

Offline missoulafish

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #46 on: Nov 29, 2022, 09:42 AM »
I still have nightmares about spoon augers ;D

Offline Iceassin

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #47 on: Nov 29, 2022, 09:46 AM »
Omg lmao, ,  mine hangs on the wall
  I still have sounders in a draw , and how did we manage without all the cool toys we have now

I still carry one on the zipper of my coat. Use it in setting tipups once in awhile. Nostalgia is a beautiful thing.  :'(
"Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam circumspice."
 


Offline Rebelss

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #48 on: Nov 29, 2022, 09:55 AM »
I still have nightmares about spoon augers ;D

 :roflmao:
“The mass of men live lives of quiet desperation”  Thoreau

Offline zcm_82

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #49 on: Nov 29, 2022, 09:59 AM »
I still have nightmares about spoon augers ;D

 :roflmao:

They work great when they're sharp, but they don't stay sharp very long and sharpening them without goobering them up is essentially a magical art.  :wacko: There was an old timer a couple miles from us who used to sharpen the spoon my Dad had a while when I was a kid. Thing cut like a hot knife after that.... for a trip or two.

Offline Rebelss

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #50 on: Nov 29, 2022, 10:05 AM »
They didn't hold an edge because they were made outta plain crap metal, becuz ya wouldn't make the entire "spoon" out of high grade steel. I found they worked good for doing small postholes in dirt, though.   ;D
“The mass of men live lives of quiet desperation”  Thoreau

Offline jigmaster5

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #51 on: Nov 29, 2022, 10:10 AM »
Those stoopid spoons.....they went thru the ice from all the heat generated from spinning them!  ;D

When my Dad first took me icefishing (~40 yrs ago)...that's all we had....that stupid blue spoon auger.  I remember working up quite a sweat getting that thing to cut thru the ice.   ::)

Offline jigmaster5

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #52 on: Nov 29, 2022, 11:47 AM »
Not going to lie, if those livescope units were $300 instead of $3000 (plus Li battery, mounts, tripod, etc, etc), I'd definitely try it - even if it is cheating.  ;D  I can think of a few places that seem like large aquatic desserts....miles of just nothing....and then you hit a magical zone.... I know those fish are down there following schools of bait b/c I've caught them in open water....sometimes suspended w/ bait.  So, esp. for those places, I can see the value of being able to scan in a full 360 circle, really dial in location & keep up w/ moving fish....but that's still not worth $3000 to me.  Maybe if I had a youtube channel w/ a sponsor, lol.  But, I know that I can get a fully rigged used tin boat for $3000 or a brand new fancy fishing kayak for $3000.  :o

For small ponds, I can just move around and find fish w/ a map & old school sonar.  I see no point in flashers, plus they give me a headache.  I have no interest in spending a day outside in nature looking at red/green lights swirling rapidly around.  Just not for me.  I understand other ppl like them.

I have to say that I have really enjoy my underwater camera....watching how fish react underwater, etc.  Super cool to see what's down there & very helpful, too.  My last 1 stopped taking a charge...so I've got a new one for X-mas....but I did miss it when it finally died.  Well worth the $ for those units (for me).

For yrs + yrs, I fished w/o any electronics at all & did just fine.  I still think I fish better by feel than by looking at sonar....the camera maybe the exception, tho.  I can see things on camera that I might miss by feel.

I guess my point is that you can make icefishing as complicated or simple as you like...I've told this story before but years ago....I would run into these older gentlemen fishing...very old school.  They made their own "rods" which were little more than a scrap piece of dowel or coat hangers wrapped w/ old 20 lb mono.  They'd never buy bait.  I think they owned exactly 1 lure - silver swedish pimple.  They'd fish by watching for the kinks in that old mono to straighten out, then haul in fish hand over hand, unhook fish & right back down fast to catch the next 1.  Once 1 of them got the first fish, they'd use a fish eye to tip the pimple.  They had 1 ancient spud bar between them, home-made "rods", exactly 1 lure (each)...and that was it!!!  When the fish were active, they'd put on a clinic w/ their gear!  And they still found time to heckle me for fishing w/ a noodle rod in between them hauling in fish, lol!  I miss fishing w/ those guys as they've long since passed away....

Offline thomasthepikehunter

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #53 on: Nov 29, 2022, 12:12 PM »
Geeze Bigfoot86, relax. It's just fishing gear, no need to get angry at me. If you ever come to SD you are welcome to try my Helix 8. Side imaging and 360 are the same thing. The 360 transducer is nothing but a spinning side imaging transducer. They make stands so you can use these transducers through the ice. While it is true that it takes a few seconds for the 360 image to refresh, you get a picture that is much wider, and much clearer than current livescope.

There are some great things about livescope, don't get me wrong. Price sure isn't one though, just the transducer cost more than my Helix 8 plus 360 transducer. As Dtro says, we haven't even scratched the surface on this yet. It's cool to watch fish come in from the side, but it really doesn't tell you anything that a flasher already didn't when it comes to catching that fish. It isn't like you are putting these down the hole and seeing fish and structure 100'+ away like you can with side imaging/360. If you have them angled, livescope can see clearly to maybe 30' to 40' away from the hole, depending on water depth. You can do the same thing with a flasher. I think where a lot of pro fisherman like them is they can more easily tell where the big fish are. With a flasher it can be down right impossible to tell size differences until you get into huge differences like a perch vs a pike.
-Tom

Offline bigfoot86

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #54 on: Nov 29, 2022, 05:32 PM »
Love you telling me to relax when I think your the one offended by it.  But anyways, I have 2 helix 9 units on my boat, one that I convert over to ice fishing, even though i still prefer my vex and marcum.  Just have it for when friends want to come along and fish.  So I’m well aware of their capabilities.  I even tried hooking up my SI transducer and putting through the hole on the ice before I got the dedicated ice ducer.  The 360 is like SI but it can remain stationary unlike the SI.  So sideimaging does not have the same effect whatsoever.  I have seen and used livescope on others boats and through the ice that wasn’t mine.  Not even close.  The livescope is without a doubt unmatched.  It’s like watching a TV screen basically.  Again like comparing apples to oranges.  Also, if LS was just as effective as SI and 360 then why is everyone jumping on the livescope train?? This thread was about the livescope obsession.  Actually never seen ONE YouTube video of ice fishing with someone using SI or 360 (although 360 would be capable) just think about that!  It’s because these people know the serious advantage and ease of livescope.

Offline thomasthepikehunter

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #55 on: Nov 29, 2022, 08:05 PM »
I have no idea what happens on Youtube. Tournament fisherman have all the newest tech, not just one of them. I'm not really sure what we are arguing about anymore. If you are saying that new fishing shows are boring to watch, then I agree 100%. Half of them are just informercials to make you spend money, such as on livescope. There's very few hunting or fishing shows I can watch, most of them are nothing but 15 minutes of garbage advertisements, 10 minutes of jabbering, and 5 minutes of actually doing anything.
-Tom

Offline bigfoot86

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #56 on: Nov 29, 2022, 08:34 PM »
Your just steering away from the topic obviously and challenge you to show me video or evidence on how SI or a flasher is in the same ballpark as livescope.  Think you know it but just want to justify your purchase.  I get it, you spent a lot of money knowing the advantage but want to discount it.

Offline thomasthepikehunter

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #57 on: Nov 29, 2022, 09:08 PM »
I do not own livescope. I own a Helix 8 with 360 transducer. I also own a Vexilar FLX-20. They are different tools for different jobs. Livescope is just another one of those tools, it can't replace both. Maybe my opinion is a little jaded because I still remember a time when not everyone fished with electronics. Going from nothing to an FL-8 was a monumental leap. Going from a modern flasher to livescope, not that big a deal. They both see fish from about the same distance. Both can see your bait. Both are real time.
-Tom

Offline bigfoot86

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #58 on: Nov 29, 2022, 09:30 PM »
Both can see ‘live imaging’ from a distance.  Nope, not even close.  Your argument is full of gaps and null and void.  Hard even arguing with someone that doesn’t even know what they’re talking about.  Almost embarrassing.

Offline HWeber

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Re: Obsession with FF Technology
« Reply #59 on: Nov 29, 2022, 10:10 PM »
Did the LiveScope hurt your feelings or what? The biggest obsession in this thread is you being obsessed with hating FF tech. Have a beer, go fishing, relax. At the very least zip up your pants and quit the measuring contest nonsense (or don't it's quite humorous) 

 



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