Vandalism at Selkirk Park

[AT3NCION]

I personally find validity in both sides of this argument. We do all know that by putting a shack on the ice and leaving it unattended for lengthy periods of time there is a reasonable chance it will get broken into . In that regard we are aware of the risk but will take it anyway, or instead choose no shack and perhaps a tent instead. If your shack gets broken into you simply took a risk and came out with the short end of the stick.
However, it doesn't need to be this way. Things can change and I'm sure vandalism and other forms of crime on the ice can be reduced. To keep things remaining civil crime fighting should be left to some form of the law or conservation effort and not to un-monitored citizens with chips on their shoulders. For these reasons the fact that we complain when our shacks get broken into is still warranted, even if we know the dangers, because in one way or another things used to be different but we know we can also change them for the better.
It all comes down to a choice you need to make but both sides have a lot of traction to their arguments.

[30-30]

I personally find validity in both sides of this argument. We do all know that by putting a shack on the ice and leaving it unattended for lengthy periods of time there is a reasonable chance it will get broken into . In that regard we are aware of the risk but will take it anyway, or instead choose no shack and perhaps a tent instead. If your shack gets broken into you simply took a risk and came out with the short end of the stick.
However, it doesn't need to be this way. Things can change and I'm sure vandalism and other forms of crime on the ice can be reduced. To keep things remaining civil crime fighting should be left to some form of the law or conservation effort and not to un-monitored citizens with chips on their shoulders. For these reasons the fact that we complain when our shacks get broken into is still warranted, even if we know the dangers, because in one way or another things used to be different but we know we can also change them for the better.
It all comes down to a choice you need to make but both sides have a lot of traction to their arguments.

Fair statement.  But obviously I see it very differently.  So if I had a cabin and left it unattended and it gets vandalized, should I sell my cabin and buy a tent? Every time we accept responsibility for something that is NOT our fault, we are enabling this mentality.  Makes it very easy for law enforcement, they simply blame blame the victim.  As far as being civil goes - if I catch someone vandalizing my meager possessions, I will give them a "stern talking to"...I may even raise my voice a bit.

All the best to you and good fishing!!

I live an honest life like most of you guys.  For this we deserve some type of respect.

[gatorhunter]

What??

We should not have things because people vandalize them??  My truck got vandalized because I parked it at a shopping mall.  I guess I should have folded it up and taken it with me.  Ridiculous.  Maybe law enforcement should be dealing with the vandals.  I guess it is my fault for having stuff.  This is a direct result of me working 60 hours a week and buying a few things after my bills are paid. I guess I deserve to have my few possessions vandalized.  How dare I have the nerve to own a fishing shack.  Shame on me.

Very simply, "You pays your money you takes your chances"!  If a person wants to walk in the middle of the road, sooner or later he's going to get run over!  You know he works 65 hours/per week so he can very well walk anywhere he wants! We all know whose at fault but we're still going to blame the police officer who told him that it was a bad idea to walk there even though it's legal.   God forbid that the officer might have been thinking of that person's well being or best interests!   I don't think his legal right to walk there will reduce his injuries and alleviate the pain that he'll feel! 

Leaving unattended structures in a place where there is a high likelihood of vandalism, even though it is legal to have that structure there is no different.  It's Russian Roulette only with different items.

As for whose responsibility it is to "protect" these structures?  They are privately owned, just like a lawn mower, play house, shed, bench, what ever.  If damage occurs to any privately owned structure it is a police responsibility.  The police have made it very clear time and time again that they have far better things to do than respond to complaints of vandalism to structures of very limited value that have been left unattended in an area during times when people are out doing their dirty deeds.

How about this?  Get insurance on the structure!

When I first started here in the summer of 1999 I was looking forward to setting up my own hardwall on the river.  It took me all of about 2 weeks of seeing what goes on in the winter on the river to change my mind.

It's not about a right to have a shack on the river or lakes because nobody has that right.  People receive permission from government to do that!  People scream against government baby sitting, that is until something negative affects them directly.  Then they scream for government babysitting. 

I would not consider it anyone's responsibility other than my own, if I even entertained the thought of leaving something of value in a place where I know something is going to happen to it.  Makes as much sense as throwing a wallet on the street and expecting to find it untouched in the morning, next week or next month!

Call it whatever you want, I just call it common sense and accountability for one's own actions.  No demands placed on other people because of a false sense of entitlement! 

Rest assured that government officials are just as sick and tired of being blamed for everything that happens to people!  I hate the fact that we get blamed because unattended shacks were trashed; especially when it is common knowledge that shacks will get vandalized.  When and where are the only unknowns!

[gatorhunter]

Gator hunter sounds like your a person who only cares about certain things when it comes to "the great outdoors" what I mean by that is you are more then willing to make sure every shack has its name on it, make sure everyone is abiding the laws and rules of fishing, but when it comes to the permies, well that's a totally different story. Think of it this way, YOUR car gets vandalized, you call the police, they tell you what do you expect, you weren't in it. I can almost guarantee you that some of these criminals are on these forums and they read your comments stating that the police and nro's WON'T do a damn thing about what is happening. keep up the GREAT work.

It should be very obvious to anyone who stops to think for a second, that a person who dedicates his life to resource law enforcement, cares for a hell of a lot more than "certain things"!  What a ridiculous statement!

It's my job and that of every other NRO to enforce fishery legislation!   It's not my job or that of any other NRO to care about your permanent shelter! Caring about your shelter is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY! If you want to place a permanent shelter on a Manitoba water body, there are regulations that must be followed.  My job is to make sure that you follow those regulations.

But, just to show that I do care about your permanent shelter, I suggest to you that the best protection available for your permanent ice-fishing shelter is to remove it from the ice at the end of every ice-fishing outing!  Once it's removed from the ice, it will not be vandalized.  Bring it back with you next time you want to fish.  Repeat as often as you like!

[30-30]

Very simply, "You pays your money you takes your chances"!  If a person wants to walk in the middle of the road, sooner or later he's going to get run over!  You know he works 65 hours/per week so he can very well walk anywhere he wants! We all know whose at fault but we're still going to blame the police officer who told him that it was a bad idea to walk there even though it's legal.   God forbid that the officer might have been thinking of that person's well being or best interests!   I don't think his legal right to walk there will reduce his injuries and alleviate the pain that he'll feel! 

Leaving unattended structures in a place where there is a high likelihood of vandalism, even though it is legal to have that structure there is no different.  It's Russian Roulette only with different items.

As for whose responsibility it is to "protect" these structures?  They are privately owned, just like a lawn mower, play house, shed, bench, what ever.  If damage occurs to any privately owned structure it is a police responsibility.  The police have made it very clear time and time again that they have far better things to do than respond to complaints of vandalism to structures of very limited value that have been left unattended in an area during times when people are out doing their dirty deeds.

How about this?  Get insurance on the structure!

When I first started here in the summer of 1999 I was looking forward to setting up my own hardwall on the river.  It took me all of about 2 weeks of seeing what goes on in the winter on the river to change my mind.

It's not about a right to have a shack on the river or lakes because nobody has that right.  People receive permission from government to do that!  People scream against government baby sitting, that is until something negative affects them directly.  Then they scream for government babysitting. 

I would not consider it anyone's responsibility other than my own, if I even entertained the thought of leaving something of value in a place where I know something is going to happen to it.  Makes as much sense as throwing a wallet on the street and expecting to find it untouched in the morning, next week or next month!

Call it whatever you want, I just call it common sense and accountability for one's own actions.  No demands placed on other people because of a false sense of entitlement! 

Rest assured that government officials are just as sick and tired of being blamed for everything that happens to people!  I hate the fact that we get blamed because unattended shacks were trashed; especially when it is common knowledge that shacks will get vandalized.  When and where are the only unknowns!

Well there you go.  An absolutely incredible rebuttal. Incredible in the truest sense of the word. I find it quite interesting how you blame shack owners and you claim you are hard done by and being blamed.

I blame the vandals. Pure and simple. It is NOT my fault for owning a shack nor is it any officials fault for not protecting it.  But your belief that it is the owner's fault for having a shack is absolute bunk.  Not sure how any person could possibly find anyone but the criminal to blame, but in today's society, we have found ways to blame everyone but the "poor, misunderstood" criminal.  So you go ahead and blame the shack owners.  It is quite obvious you have a huge bias against shack owners.

I will write a letter to my MP and MLA thanking him for entitling me to such a luxury as an ice shack.  I am truly honoured.  I have asked so much of my country yet given nothing.

Anyway, like I said. This will never change.  Especially when there are criminals and/or the government involved.  Ironically enough, I am having great trouble distinguishing between the two. Seems both have been victimizing the regular guy a lot these days.  We do know that the very worst form of slimeball on the planet is the shack-owner.  I have met hundreds of them in my forty years of ice fishing.  Awful, awful  people.  They are all drunk drivers, poachers and litters too!!

I hereby apologize for ever commenting on this issue as it is quite obvious that everyone is very happy and accepting of this.  You go back to your "war on shacks" and I will keep mine until it is deemed illegal.

Best of luck to you in your endeavour......oh, and by the way - I truly appreciate the work the NRO's do and support them on every issue, with the obvious exception of this one.  I respect anyone who serves and protects in any manner.  Thank you for your service.

[gatorhunter]

What I find incredible is your completely incorrect repetition that I am blaming shack owners for the vandalism that is occurring to their shacks.  The crooks are the only people who are responsible for their actions! Can we be clear on that?

My point has always been about giving these punks targets!  If one knowingly gives these punks targets, time and time again, then the question of why continue if you know it's going to happen needs to be asked?  When everyone knows it's going to happen but you still choose to put a permanent ice-fishing shelter out there, you will not get sympathy from people.

You continually complain about having us or the police patrol or set up surveillance to protect or provide security for these shacks.  It's not our job!  Never has been and hopefully never will be!  We can't keep up to poaching activity as it is and the police can't keep up to violent crime, crimes against people and crimes against real property in areas where we all patrol!

People work hard for their money!  Taxpayers have a right to get what they want out of their government and government workers.  You have a right to have a shack on the river.  Regardless of all that, you don't have a right to rip apart civil servants because you pay their salary.  I'm a tax payer just like you!  However, I don't expect civil servants to be all things to all people!  If I have to change the oil in a guy's truck and clean his teeth while I'm doing fishery compliance checks, how many fishery compliance checks am I going to get done? 

When nobody fishes the river at night in the winter, why would we patrol the river?  Is that not a complete waste of tax payers hard earned dollars?  If we're wasting time and money doing nothing related to what we're hired to do, what sense does that make?  Who will work when the work that we are hired for needs to get done?

I have posted numerous positive alternatives to using permanent shelters and dealing with everything bad that they attract; including vandalism.  I have spent hours and hours explaining the who, why, when, where and how of all things, good and bad, related to permanent ice-fishing shelters.  If you think that the whole permanent ice-fishing shelter issue has not improved exponentially then you choose to be blind to the success and the hard work of EVERYONE involved; officers, anglers, media, general public!

I notice that your avatar has a military scene!  If in fact you are or have been in the military, I return the thanks and salute your for having served!  I won't tell a soldier how to do his business as he is the expert in that field.  Reciprocity would be appreciated!  Again, thank you very much for your service!

[man-trac]

As for a lot of our government employees, just sounds like ordinary Jose's are getting fed up with all the excuses that are made. There's no accountability, a crime is committed, it is reported to authorities and nothing gets done. Sad.

[E.R.B.]

Not giving these punks "targets".... Is what you are suggesting similar to a couple years back when a Judge blamed a scantily clad woman for getting raped?
So permies aren't the problem as they sit,just the " illegal activity" they might possibly attract such as vandalism and littering.
I understand your point of view Andre and I sympathize with you but that train of blame could be applied to just about anything and everything leading to illegal activity.