IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
Canada => Ice Fishing Manitoba => Topic started by: MeadowPikeman on Nov 08, 2006, 02:10 PM
-
an interesting topic lately
(http://www.sharemation.com/greatwhitenorth/nov03.jpg?uniq=-hw5yuh)
(http://www.sharemation.com/greatwhitenorth/nov01.jpg?uniq=-hw5yut)
(http://www.sharemation.com/greatwhitenorth/nov02.jpg?uniq=-hw5yut)
(http://www.sharemation.com/greatwhitenorth/nov04.jpg?uniq=-hw5yub)
notice the lack of fork on a pure brookie
(http://www.sharemation.com/greatwhitenorth/3lbbrookie.jpg?uniq=-hw5yyn)
-
are you from the meadow lake I know of in sask ??
because that is real fishing country :tipup:
-
yup
-
interesting topic is right MPM....thanks for posting those gorgeous splake!!!....I heard we dont have any of those stocked in the lake where the new Manitoba record "Brookie" was caught.......just like you dont have brookies stocked in the lake where you catch those awesome splake!!! ::) ::) thanks for the pics...Grump
-
actually there a few lakes in saskatchewan that brookies and browns have turned up in with no record of them ever being stocked
-
very nice fish. looks just like laurie lake splake. its been a while since i fished these but i think a trip to laurie in a few weeks might be a good idea.
a funny thing Grump, is that at perch lake in the ducks i caught 2 walleye one day. they have never been stocked there but here were 2, 14 inchers that came out. threw them back but phoned dnr to ask if it was stocked and they said someone probably just threw a few in from a close lake like west blue or something and they survived.
Also grump there is a lake in the ducks that has a rumour of splake being stocked in it to control the perch population. how many years do you think it will take for the splake to grow big?
have fun and stay on top of the ice not under
-
i'm wondering how many verfied reports outside of labrador there are of brookies that size my guess would be that in the last 50 years that there are very few. if you take away nipigon/coaster/labrador brookies, it seems a huge one is maybe 6lbs maybe 7 or 8 in a select few waters. i'll maybe show this to out regional biologist here in town and see what he thinks of a "brookie" that size. one funny thing is when i post splake pictures online and the fish are in spawning color most people think they are monster brookies.
-
I know what i think but this is just my opinion! I don't see any square tail,blue halos. or brilliant red dots, or black lateral line along a nice white belly,Oh well I've only caught several ::).....hundred brookies. ;)
When I catch one that big I might quit fishing! :unsure:...........NOT! ;D
-
Very intersting topic. Thats one huge "brookie".
actually there a few lakes in saskatchewan that brookies and browns have turned up in with no record of them ever being stocked
It sure does happen, a buddy of mine caught a master angler brown from two mile lake in the ducks a few years ago, and they have never been stocked there either, and his is the only one on record. Fish do get mixed up at the hatcheries and other anglers like to try stocking themselves too. :-\ Is that the case here? And nice splake too MPM.
-
I totally agree WW i have never seen any brookie with a fork like and no halo's I think people are quick to jump to conclusions when they catch a big un like that, a beautiful splake not a brookie in my mind
-
I'm confused about what ya'll are arguing about. The top 4 pics are splake and the bottom one is a brookie. Right? The bottom one looks just like any brookie I've ever caught. Look at the diff between these two, caught out of the same hole within 2 minutes of each other. Both are Nipigon strain brookies that are stocked here in BC. N splake has ever swam in BC waters as far as I know. Looky here:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/PGKris/2006W-March5-Keepers.jpg)
(The tail on the bottom one looks forked cause it's pinched.)
-
2) Why release a "real" brook trout of that size? If it is a Brook Trout, it's way beyond any
spawning, and is going to die of old age in the next year or so anyhow.
3) The general shape of the head and tail seems more like Lake Trout.
4) The white on the fins seems to be missing the black border commonly found
between the white and the red on a Speck.
I gotta disagree with ya here TS, if you are referring to the last pic (??)
2) That brookie looks about the same size as the ones I caught last year....(what MP, about 20"? 4-5lbs? That one's fatter than the ones I got) And the ones I was catching were about 5 years old, judging from the stocking data (or lack thereof ;) )
3) The head and tail look nothing like any laker I've ever seen.... The first 4 pics have the typical, what I call, laker bullet head and forked tail. The tail on the fish in the last pic is not forked in the slightest.
4) I can see a black border between the white and red........maybe you gotta clean your glasses ;) ;D
Just my 2 cents
Kris
(PS: And you're used to seeing the native variety, right? I'm seeing them several generations removed :-\ )
-
Well having fished Barbe lake before and catching a 24+ inch Brookie, I am leaning towards a record. If you scour the MA awards from this lake you'll see the fish in this wee stocked lake (approx 1.5 km long x 1/2 km wide) get extremely big, including the rainbows. And out of 1000 masters caught, not one splake. Of course that could just mean that out of all those people none of them have the knowledge that all of us forum pros do. ::) It's still in there and I'm sure if someone catches it again, it will be killed and they'll do the DNA thing and everyone will be able to sleep ;D You can see my brookie in my cabin on AMI.
Link to Barbe Lake Masters:
http://www.travelmanitoba.com/master_angler_search.asp?lake_id=Barbe+Lake&report=lake&d=search (http://www.travelmanitoba.com/master_angler_search.asp?lake_id=Barbe+Lake&report=lake&d=search)
-
The only positive way to tell is to open up the fish and examine the worm-like projections on the front part of the stomach. These are called pyloric caeca and function in digestion. Lake trout have 100 – 190 of them and brook trout have 20 – 50, and splake usually have 70 – 80.
..... The splake is an excellent game fish, most frequently fighting like the brook trout, but occasionally diving deep like the lake trout
.....just a few tidbits pulled from an MNR website regarding splake....if there's any pros around, your input to this discussion is welcomed....Grump
-
:unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: Skiff :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:
An educated guess?
-
Interesting debate ;D What kind of fish is this It measures 26" (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b125/bobbbbbbbbb/100b0620.jpg)
-
thats a Rainbow with......you should have cropped the tail out of the pic!! lol....Grump :flex:
-
I wish it was me :P Bro in law... with a 26" brookie buddy also caught a 25" within ten Min's of each other {wish it was me :( } never see that again my lifetime ;)
-
No question about that one, clearly a brookie there, huge brookie.
-
Sorry Kris, I was referring to the single photo of the released Splake in the original post of the said "record" not any of the above photos. :)
(http://www.anglingmasters.com/documents/9737/AMI_Blog_Brook_Trout.jpg)
Ya TS, now I know. Grump PMed me ;) That pic is a splake. More brrokie pics coming! Somebody got on ice today!!!!!!!!!
-
i am going to the same lake on saturday morning to go ice fishing. i am hoping that i can catch this fish, but if not one like it. it is a big fish and very colorful.
on a side note. anyone know where i can pick a used hand auger for cheap? looking in the pas area or swan river area.
thanks
be safe on the early ice but remember have fun
-
and I think I forgot to mention that that brookie in my original post comes from a lake that has NEVER had any brookies stocked and just happened to be my personal best, a buddy of mine caught one bigger the same fall in the same lake, I guess they must be rainbows though cause in the last ten years that's what has been stocked :)
-
anyone from AMI or FishnLine magazine care to post a pic of the fish with the tape showing the tail?......that should clear everything up quite easily and put this to rest....Grump
-
Grump they wont i have asked and no pic has surfaced :(
-
Grump they wont i have asked and no pic has surfaced
I think they said it will be in the new fish'n line,we'll just have to hold our breath till then ;D.
-
i thought i'd throw a few more pics out to stir the old proverbial pot :) any one see if they can ID em all 1-7, top prize one free day fishing with yours truly :)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c195/mlpikeman/26incher.jpg)
(http://www.sharemation.com/greatwhitenorth/brookie3.jpg?uniq=rcc0x2)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c195/mlpikeman/rass08.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c195/mlpikeman/last3.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c195/mlpikeman/exner1.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c195/mlpikeman/fern1.jpg)
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c195/mlpikeman/poplar1.jpg)
oh this is fun
-
brook, brook, splake, splake, brook, splake and the last one is a brookie. I'm just going by the tails, I'm no expert.
-
horses
all 7 ;D
-
sorry pizalm not quite :)
-
splake, brook, splake, splake, to close to tell looks like both, splake, brook
-
1...Splake
2...Brookie
3...Splake
4...Splake
5...Brookie
6...Splake
7...Brookie
-
I win ;D
-
its most interesting to say the least, and what boggles my mind is that even with all the visual points that are recognized in the biological community that you cannot postively identify a brookie from a splake, that they will stand up and post an aye for the fish.....it really bothers me to see this. but on the other hand, how can some of us stand up and say...."well it must be true" because he (graduate of fisheries biology) said so.....all of the criteria has Never been met for live release ID....Grump....(stirring the pot)
-
its most interesting to say the least, and what boggles my mind is that even with all the visual points that are recognized in the biological community that you cannot postively identify a brookie from a splake, that they will stand up and post an aye for the fish.....it really bothers me to see this. but on the other hand, how can some of us stand up and say...."well it must be true" because he (graduate of fisheries biology) said so.....all of the criteria has Never been met for live release ID....Grump....(stirring the pot)
thought so
grump are you going to the lake in the ducks with the road ;) this weekend
-
yep snopro....you are more than welcome to join us if you wish...Chief and I will be out there by about 9-9:30 at the latest and fishing until late afternoon.....Grump
-
would be glad to if i wasnt in the pas this weekend :'(
wont be home till december 19th but plan on hiting lake x up the 20th, 21st and 22nd all day then the rest of the break is sledding with maybe one day of fishing at the end.
good luck this weekend
-
I can only judge based on what ya'll have told me on here. I've never seen a splake. But I've seen a lot of brookies, and all I know what doesn't look like a brookie :-\ I think I got er though ;)
-
PGK seems to have a decent handle on the id thing, does that really mean i have to go fishing with him if he ever comes to saskabush?? :D crap i had to open my big yap. Funny thing is I know people who have lived around where i fish and have never seen a big male splake or one inspawning color, one weird fish was the one that would be fish pic #6 was a female and full of eggs that were fully developed the first week in may??? and a really dark fish to boot. the more i fish for splake i realized splake a strange fish with traits all of their own.
-
but on the other hand, how can some of us stand up and say...."well it must be true" because he (graduate of fisheries biology) said so.....
Remind me not to take any more advice about the Duramax from you then...since you're only an expert....
You'll note that I haven't stuck my neck out in trying to identify any of the photos. I don't feel confident in it. From my understanding, the fish was released. If so, there either needs to be good (i.e. better than the one we've seen) photographic evidence of what the fish is, especially if it is to be recognized as a MB record. If brookies and splake can't be told apart from good photographic evidence, then I don't see how it could be recognized as one or the other. If there isn't good photographic evidence, there should be no record either. All I was trying to say was that I would defer to the expert that has had considerably more training than I, as I would expect you, Grump, to be able to have more knowledge about the Duramax than I have and as I would expect some to defer to me in my area of expertise (if I ever remember what that was).
Man, this got me riled and just before bedtime too...I'm not sure whether to truly be ticked off at you (I'd expect you at least not to think of me as naive) or to congratulate you on a pot well stirred.
-
:roflmao: You guys and your hybrids.....ever try that out on a hunting forum? Ask them on www.huntingbc.ca if there are any hybrid deer in BC. :roflmao: Good times.
No MP, you gotta come here, Saskabush is too flat for a hill boy like me. One leg's longer than the other cause of the slope :D
-
Thriller...
congratulate you on a pot well stirred.
...hope you had a great sleep bud....and thats my final answer lol...in the presence of doubt, I went searching for some answers and this is one question I posed in discussion (some heated ;D) but I didnt see one Expert come forward and explain this scientific fact about splake. http://www.rook.org/earl/bwca/nature/fish/salvelinusfonx.html (http://www.rook.org/earl/bwca/nature/fish/salvelinusfonx.html)...one of the few hybrids that could cause controversial debate....Grump
-
Thriller......hope you had a great sleep bud....and thats my final answer lol...in the presence of doubt, I went searching for some answers and this is one question I posed in discussion (some heated ;D) but I didnt see one Expert come forward and explain this scientific fact about splake. http://www.rook.org/earl/bwca/nature/fish/salvelinusfonx.html (http://www.rook.org/earl/bwca/nature/fish/salvelinusfonx.html)...one of the few hybrids that could cause controversial debate....Grump
That wasn't lost on everyone grump, it was posted in one other thread (not on this board) about the pyloric cacae. Stewart and Watkinson (Freshwater Fishes of Manitoba) write that the pyloric cacae # is the "best" way to identify brookies/splake, not the only way. (Ken Stewart is my expert :))
(On Splake) "The vermiculations and scattered red spots of the brook trout are absent, replaced by the pale yellowish spots of the lake trout. The pale markings extend onto the sides of the head, as in the lake trout, but they are more scattered. The tail is moderately forked when spread instead of square as in the brook trout or deeply forked as in the lake trout, and there is no black streak behind the leading edge of the pectoral, pelvic and anal fins. The best diagnostic character is the pyloric cacae count. Brook trout have from 23-55 pyloric cacae, lake trout have 93-208, and the splake has 65-85.
Based on what I see in the picture, the fish looks to be a huge brook. Still, that ID is gathered from one small/low res photo....I'm not completely confident in it. I hope that when the Fishin Line is published there are more pics and the record can be legitimized.
-
I still don't understand what the problem is. I go by their heads........mostly... ....a splake head looks like a lake trout.....a brookie head looks like a brookie. If they differ in the # of pyloric cacae then thats the way to determine on a dead fish. But since I gottem all right, You boys better hire me to make field judgements in case this debate comes up again. I run at about $32.50/hr :roflmao:
-
I have a novel idea...........catch a BIGGER one and............no more debate!!!
-
screw the debate....those pics are incredible :o
-
the big one's been settled, it's a big brook
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v610/flyfisherman/bigbrookie3.jpg)
-
Thanks Pizalm....and about time that THE PROPER photo finally appeared....nice blue halos in this shot that no one had the priveledge of seeing!!...congrats Tim....Awesome trophy brookie!!....Grump
-
Yeah finally. Its obvious now. Thats one massive brookie. Thanks Pizalm.
-
I had the link sent to me by Kyle_ off the forums here so don't give me all the credit, just most of it. lol.
-
??????????????????????????????
-
man.......I think I want to move north....just great fish :tipup:
-
so between people arguing and contradicting eachother, how do you tell the difference between the two fish?? ???
-
I'm not sure but splake have a forked tale, no blue halos around the spots and there is no black streak seperating the white and red on the fins. And the number of pyloric cacae (sp) is different i've read but I'm not sure on the numbers of them for each species.
-
i found all some of my old splake pics thought you guys might like em
(http://www.sharemation.com/greatwhitenorth/trash/fernoct15.jpg?uniq=-hdalr1)
(http://www.sharemation.com/greatwhitenorth/trash/coldrass.jpg?uniq=-hdals1)
(http://www.sharemation.com/greatwhitenorth/trash/coldrass2.jpg?uniq=-hdalrv)
(http://www.sharemation.com/greatwhitenorth/trash/splakes.jpg?uniq=-hdalod)
(http://www.sharemation.com/greatwhitenorth/trash/firstice.jpg?uniq=-hdalqp)
(http://www.sharemation.com/greatwhitenorth/trash/oct04.jpg?uniq=-hdalpj)
(http://www.sharemation.com/greatwhitenorth/trash/oct06.jpg?uniq=-hdalp7)
(http://www.sharemation.com/greatwhitenorth/trash/oct01.jpg?uniq=-hdalq1)
(http://www.sharemation.com/greatwhitenorth/trash/oct03.jpg?uniq=-hdalpp)
-
Haha yes I'm resurrecting this...
So I just thought of something.....MP and myself both think it's a splake, reluctantly I think. What happens if that fish's mommy was a brookie and it's daddy was a splake? Hmmm? Back-cross? Just PGK stirrin the pot again ;D
-
I can see how backcrossing could produce splake that look almost solely like a brook or a lake trout....but in the case at hand, it is not possible? Unless the hatchery is playing games with their brood stock... ;D
Lake trout have never been stocked or reported caught in the lake...legitimate 25.5 and 26.5 brookies have also been taken from the lake....it looks like a brookie....whats not to believe? surprised you dont think it's a dolly :D
-
I was of the understanding that there were also lakers in that lake?
-
Nope no Lakers in there. No question about it, ITS A BROOK TROUT! End of discussion.
-
I was of the understanding that there were also lakers in that lake?
There are also rainbows, but that is it.
-
the pic showing the blue halos is definitive enough and ends any controversy that I or anyone else legitimately suggested....its a Brookie!!!....sorry PGK....but the shoe fits perfectly....Grump :roflmao: :roflmao:
-
Halo's Schmalo's! I'm stickin to my guns boys. :woot: :pinch: Check pics out on pg.8 & 22 of Nov. "the Fishin line" ;D ;)
-
Halo's Schmalo's! I'm stickin to my guns boys. :woot: :pinch: Check pics out on pg.8 & 22 of Nov. "the Fishin line" ;D ;)
...okay WW...post the pics you are referring to from the mag....I am ready to Turtle......nothing better than some good controversial debate.......as long as everyone keeps a level keel on this one.....halos convince me its Brookie.....any of the other pics I have seen say its a Splake.......bring em on......biologists be darned!! lol....Grump ;D ;D ;D PGKrusty.......butt out.. ;D
-
Here goes:this is pg.22 on a Splake article.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/WALLYWHACKER/IMG_0786.jpg)
this is page 8 and the record what!? ;)2 :whistle:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/WALLYWHACKER/IMG_0785.jpg)
;D where are the red and crimson dots inside the Schmalo's?
Here's a couple of different color settings. 8)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/WALLYWHACKER/IMG_0783.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/WALLYWHACKER/IMG_0772.jpg)
"and now you know the rest of "my" story" and thats all I'm going to say on it. ;D
tightlines. Ho! Ho! Ho!
-
:) ;D ;D :)
-
Maybe you just need your eyes checked, because I can see both the blue halos and the red spots inside. :P To me with these high resolution pictures (well in comparison to the originals), the difference between this brook trout and all of the splake pictures that everyone has posted is as clear as the water in East Blue. ;D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v610/flyfisherman/bigbrookie1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v610/flyfisherman/bigbrookie2.jpg)
-
I'll go get my eyes checked tommorow for sure
-
;D Looky me being a poo disturber :roflmao: Heh. Sure. It's a brookie. Why not. Like I care that record is mine someday anyway. I'll make sure to catch mine out of the Miramishee though ;)
-
;D Looky me being a poo disturber :roflmao: Heh. Sure. It's a brookie. Why not. Like I care that record is mine someday anyway. I'll make sure to catch mine out of the Miramishee though ;) Sorry PGKris you wil have to come to manitoba to catch it :woot: :woot: Have a safe christmas + all the best in 2007 ;)
-
thats definitely a brookie, i catch them in the river by my house all the time with the same colors although alot smaller. its kinda cool if you touch the white part of the bottom of the fins theyre really thick and hard from digging in gravel to spawn least the ones ive caught
-
Some of the Lake Nipigons in my pond don't have the blue halos. Oh Oh! :o :o :o
Some of you seem to think that if two fish are crossed they will all be 50/50 of what the parents look like. Not so. Some offspring will lean toward each parent species in appearance.
I don't think we will ever know if that is a splake or pure brookie since it was released and can't be examined for plyloric cacae or DNA, unless the body of water it came from was never planted with splake or has lake trout. (there have been cases of naturally crossed splake see below).
Just hope the fish didn't just go to the bottom and die. My trout in my pond if they fight hard and are released will have a good percentage of them die. That's why catch out trout ponds frown on catch and release.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/Splake.jpg)
-
thats definitely a brookie, i catch them in the river by my house all the time with the same colors although alot smaller. its kinda cool if you touch the white part of the bottom of the fins theyre really thick and hard from digging in gravel to spawn least the ones ive caught
The female is the one digs up the gravel and covers the eggs with gravel. Both sexes have thick fins compared to other salmonids. I get lots of shrinkage on their fins when I mount them because they are so thick. Not trying to be a know it all -- just saying the digging has nothing to do with it.
-
I don't think we will ever know if that is a splake or pure brookie since it was released and can't be examined for plyloric cacae or DNA, unless the body of water it came from was never planted with splake or has lake trout[/quote....and will always have the doubters......either way, the fish should have been kept for a positive ID, but the entry was for catch and release.....I might take some heat for posting my thoughts, but as a very few have posted, it was near its life cycle anyway.....and may just well be laying on the bottom to continue its recycling process....if I caught one that size, there would be no debate.....Grump....ti ghtlines everyone...and do what you think is right for the lake....river...stream ...and your own conscience....
-
I don't think we will ever know if that is a splake or pure brookie since it was released and can't be examined for plyloric cacae or DNA, unless the body of water it came from was never planted with splake or has lake trout[/quote....and will always have the doubters......either way, the fish should have been kept for a positive ID, but the entry was for catch and release.....I might take some heat for posting my thoughts, but as a very few have posted, it was near its life cycle anyway.....and may just well be laying on the bottom to continue its recycling process....if I caught one that size, there would be no debate.....Grump....ti ghtlines everyone...and do what you think is right for the lake....river...stream ...and your own conscience....
Amen. :)
-
I'm sure I'll take some heat too. From my experience observing fish in a closed environment of my fish ponds, where I can usually tell if a fish has survived catch and release, I'm not sure catch and release is all it's cracked up to be for older larger fish that put up a good fight on hook and line. Sure it has it's place and I've done my share of it, but if the anglers that practice it actually knew how many fish they kill they may have second thoughts. Just because a fish swims off doesn't mean it won't croak up to 3 days later. And not all fish float up after they die either. In fact many stay right on the bottom and decompose. What really makes me laugh are those that think that old fish monster fish is going to pass on it's genes. Probably not. Just like old men and women fertitlity decreases rapidly with age. I've take some monster old fish out of my ponds that were sterile.
Saw a post the other day where an angler released all the panfish he caught through the ice. As a fish farmer we absolutely DO NOT handle any bluegill, crappie, and bass in water temps below 50 F. Why? Because they are prone to develop fungus and bacterial infections later on from handling. This is probably something many anglers are not aware of. In my ponds where I produce fish for sale I try and only remove fish when I am ready to kill and sell them whole frozen.
Used to live on a lake that had bass tournaments every weekend. It was nothing to see dead bass up to three days after that tournament on a regular basis, especially when the water was the warmest in the summer. No matter how careful you are fighting a hook is stressful on a fish.
Yeah right, "I get 50 percent of the pleasure watching the fish swim away." ::) ::) ::)