Flathead lake trout article

[missoulafish]

Wait till they start to  remove the smallies out of the Flathead river. Don't think it can't happen

[tightline45]

Id like to help in anyway I can.  Just keep up informed!!

[sra61]

I got the webspace today, and we're working on getting something up as soon as possible. Since I'd already secured it, we're staying with saveourflatheadfishery .com even though I'm sure there will be complaints. Just thought I'd keep ya'll informed. Something is happening.

[missoulafish]

Thanks SRA. Anyone have lots of disk space, great bandwidth and a pc that's on ALL the time?

[Cornbread]

Thanks SRA. Anyone have lots of disk space, great bandwidth and a pc that's on ALL the time?

the stuff that sra did came with hosting and unlimited bandwidth. He has the whole deal setup already. We just need content and such now.

[Quantoson]

 I will work on the petition today. 

[missoulafish]

Nice work men!

[Cornbread]

sra gave me the login and password stuff to the hosting last night. I went in this morning and got a database setup as well as a Twitter and Facebook. As we get more content in on our efforts I will put it in the appropriate places. The rest of folks need to sign the petition once we get it up, also send e-mails from the page we provide to do so once we get that up. Like us on facebook and follow us on Twitter. The more noise we can make on social media like facebook and twitter the more clout the eventual e-mails and petitions will have. If you have pictures of you and or your family enjoying lake trout fishing on Flathead Lake, post them to the facebook page along with your comments on why you love fishing the Flathead etc. or tweet the image to the Twitter feed and I will retweet it or just send them to me along with your comments and I will post them up for you. Can't stress this enough, make as much noise on this as you possibly can on social media. More to come.

Links to Twitter and Facebook:

https://twitter.com/FlatheadFishery

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-our-Flathead-Fishery/163439860475084

[fishawn]

Nice work guys, as soon as something comes up to sign on the website let us all know. I'm sure with the spread of the word to a few non-ice shanty friends we can get a lot of momentum with this.

[missoulafish]

Facebook page shared out, lets get some LIKES.

[gregv17]

I am in guys. Already liked/shared on facebook with personal and business pages. Had about enough of knuckleheads screwing up our great fisheries. Having lived all over the country I can tell you that Flathead is/was the best Lake Trout fishing in the lower 48 outside of maybe the Great Lakes. Both for potential size and numbers. Now these guys want to get rid of them. In some places the Bull Trout are not going to come back without serious stocking. This is one of those.

[Wenger]

I am in guys. Already liked/shared on facebook with personal and business pages. Had about enough of knuckleheads screwing up our great fisheries. Having lived all over the country I can tell you that Flathead is/was the best Lake Trout fishing in the lower 48 outside of maybe the Great Lakes. Both for potential size and numbers. Now these guys want to get rid of them. In some places the Bull Trout are not going to come back without serious stocking. This is one of those.

I'm not trying to sound anti laker, but are they really trying to get rid of them or check the population growth in Flathead? That is a key distinction as proper management could keep them from crashing (as would happen I suspect) if they become too abundant and other food sources for the mature fish are depleted. (It is far different in an ecosystem where they are native obviously.)

Stocking bull trout will not have any real effect if they don't have the habitat they require available to them. Bulls and cutts have evolved together, the lakers and mysis are wild cards that nature has not been able to deal with yet. In time things certainly would settle out into some sort of balance that may or may not include the natives and may or may not include a stable population of lake trout.  I would point to lake Powell's stripers as an example of boom and bust preditor prey relationships. In down cycles the striped bass are literally hammer handles, the majority are eaten by the bigger ones or simply die. The shad then come back and then the stripers recover until the next cycle.

I'd argue the immediate concern should be keeping the full weight (Federal) of the ESA from coming into effect which nobody will enjoy, (and does tend to favor solutions that are far more radical ... striving  for impossible goals such as returning waters to 'pristine ecosystems') while keeping a viable population of lakers to fish for. I think there is common ground between sportsmen and fisheries managers in this area.

[PerchAssault]

When a 75% reduction in the lake trout populations is the preferred alternative in an EIS...(you will just have to wait it out to read it for yourselves) it is no longer a matter of balance...which is why FWP has dropped out of it.  The balance was acheived 4-6 years ago, the bull trout are NOT going to come back to pre-mysis levels. Every biologist that has really studied Flathead, some for over 30 years, agrees on that.  Hired "experts" will have their theories...and you will all get to read them in the EIS, and pack a lunch 'cause the DRAFT was over 500 pages

About a year ago, the full project was submitted to Bonneveille Power for Independant Scientific Review.  There was a LOT of concern from that panel about data, collection efforts, results, etc.  Specifically about what it will do to the FISHERY! Yes, we all want to see native fish protected. Yes, a balance would be nice.

Trust me, when you read, and read and re-read the EIS, you will see what any of these alternatives will do to the fishery. ZERO help to the perch fishery...ZERO increase in Whitefish (and quite possibly a decrease as the Lake Whitefish make up the bulk of the biomass in flathead and are everywhere the lake trout are) and an absolute, long term decrease in the lake trout above 14".  NO scientific data that we will get bull trout back and, according to biologists who work with federally listed bull trout in other drainages, almost ZERO chance we would ever get enough bull trout to allow any type of fishery.  So what is left?

I have followed this for over 10 years...interviewed both sides, talked to other fishery managers in ID, OR, WY. Read the pilot projects and the results of the ISRP. Seen the draft EIS...In my opinion, which according to everyone in favor of gillnetting dismisses because I operate a charter business, we CANNOT let this happen. Unfortunately, I have seen meeting after meeting go woefully unattended, seen comment periods attract comments from less than 1% of licensed anglers, and seen politics get in the way of public opinion. Its going to take serious effort (and $$$) to overcome this...Anyone who knows me knows I am the consumate optimist, but this really concerns me as I know what we are up against, and you all will too once the EIS is released.

Mike

[Quantoson]

Mike,

I understand.  I just started reading all the docs 2 days ago.  I was overwhelmed with the lack of real scientific evidence and that they followed thru as outlined in the Goal series requirements.  Seems that this is 7 states wide so far in the West.  I sent some docs to Cornbread but they need to be linked properly so the facts are easy to read.  I will work on that tomorrow.

The new EIS due out in 5 weeks or so will have the latest and greatest.  I have a feeling after reading the Montana Chapter of American Fisheries Society Agenda that the real agenda is to eliminate the non native fish species all over the West.  Then once this proves that it won't work they will follow thru with recommendations to remove all the dams.  It is plain to see the intent or real goal by the organizations these folks keep.

I will follow thru with this as much as possible to get the word out because this EIS will require a comment period before any action can take place.  The FWP also has negative input towards the suggestions received by the CSKT from their own biologist.  CSKT pays these guys a large salary only to be deceived and used as the patsy for a personal agenda which ultimately is not in the best interest of the tribe, ecology or the anglers of Montana and the Western States..

Look forward to input from any person, positive and meaningful.  There won't be anytime for name calling now just moving forward and fast.  I have already made contact with FWP for more documents which I hope to receive tomorrow.  I have about 38 hours just in reading to understand how it got this far so fast, which in 10 years has been overlooked by the community as a whole for lack of information and understanding.

[JayHelfrich]

We need to expose more people to this world class fishery.  I am willing to put my money where my mouth is too.  If you have groups of people that want to see what this fishery is like, please let me know and I will assist getting them out on the water. 

Jay

[double_a85]

After reading through everyones comments on this issue and letting my blood pressure rise a little bit I figure I get to rant a little now. I worked for FWP for three years and one thing I noticed during the entire time was this drive to "restore" the native trout as well as get rid of non-natives.

What gripes me the most about that attitude is that FWP doesn't stay true to its course everywhere in the state. They want to get rid of a multi-million dollar fishery of "non native" Lake Trout on the Flathead, yet don't touch the multi-million dollar "non native" fisheries like the Bighorn, Madison, or any other Blue Ribbon Trout stream this state has. This discrepancy seems to show me the power that Trout Unlimited has on politics and the biologists.

Quantoson brought up removal of dams... I am only 31... and I expect in my lifetime to start seeing dams being removed pretty steadily within 30 years due to the attitude changes in most of the country. Although, if they were to remove dams on the Colorado... most of the population in Arizona and Las Vegas would need to relocate.


There's my rant on the subject--- I see a big balance shift towards "native" species and the people with the power seem to have it made up in their minds what they are going to do no matter what we ( the anglers who use the resource) want.

[BigSage]

Is it wise to submit an article in the newspapers across the state looking for support?

[Quantoson]

Thank You Double_a85
I am still working on this and will continue.  It may be a waste of time but at least I'll know that my best effort with my limited resources were used.

I have an offer from a IS member in Ohio who wants to help out.  It will get bigger in a month.  Consensus is what counts.  Money helps but on this issue the masses will prevail with persistence.

BigSage
My feelings are media doesn't cover the facts only what they are told to cover by the powers that be.  If they do cover this type of issue no doubt it would be place in the travel section under trips to Cuba just to avoid the reading by the general public.

[Dardevle]

If you were managing a lake and attempting to reduce the population of "undesirable" fish, why would you have regulations in place to protect the prime spawners of this "undesirable" species?  I'm of course referring to the slot limits on lake trout as outlined on page 31 of the 2013 Montana Fishing Regulations.

[Quantoson]

DarDevle,

I ask myself the same question 4 years ago and still am confounded.

[Cornbread]

If you were managing a lake and attempting to reduce the population of "undesirable" fish, why would you have regulations in place to protect the prime spawners of this "undesirable" species?  I'm of course referring to the slot limits on lake trout as outlined on page 31 of the 2013 Montana Fishing Regulations.

Because that(the slot limit) is a FWP thing and this gill netting is a CSKT and BPA thing. FWP wants it managed for lake trout because they have done the research and know that is what will work best for the lake now that Kerr dam has changed the hydrology of it.

CSKT wants BPA money to gill net and really don't care about the fishery or the economic impact of it. The CSKT wants the short term money right now and could care less about anything else. Just look at their recent settlement check allocations, they want the cash and are unwilling to look at anything that doesn't represent immediate $$$. Thinking long term about their economy or the fishery has never been something they have done in just about any decision the CSKT has ever made. Just look at the historical economic decisions of their council and government. It won't take you very long to see how poor their decision making process becomes when some interested party puts a lot of money on the table, common sense goes right out the window.

[missoulafish]

They want a trophy lake trout fishery and to gill net as well....of course this will work.

[Neptune]

Does anyone actually know if there is any legal recourse that we(the fishermen) have to stop the gill nets?

[JayHelfrich]

This is what I'm posting everywhere and anywhere I have access too...

Hey guys,

If you like lake trout fishing it may be coming to an end soon.  There is a group of biologist that are trying to eradicate the lake trout to "enhance" native fish.  It is happening in 7 states and several lakes.  Read about it here:

http://warnercnr.colostate.edu/~brett/lab/coldwater/documents/MARTINEZetal.2009.westernlaketroutwoes.pdf

Think it can't happen?  They did to Priest Lake Idaho already and it is starting this summer at Flathead Lake Montana if we don't get going on it.  Lake Trout are the "non native" species that they currently have targeted for removal in order to try and return the Westslope Cutthroat trout and the Bull Trout to pre-mysis shrimp introduction (introduced by the FWP in an attempt to provide an additional food source for the kokanee salmon in a science project that failed and cause the collapse of several fisheries and the bloom of lake trout) levels. Unfortunately the cutt's and bull's will never regain ground until the habitat is returned to the way it was ~50 years ago. Due to many changes this may never happen. The Flathead Lake fishery is a destination fishery for many people in this state, this country, and world wide. We should be promoting it and not trying to destroy it. Gill netting kills fish without discrimination. It will kill fish big and small as well as not target species (including the species that are in need of assistance.) We all should take a person fishing on Flathead Lake to show them what kind of fishery that will be destroyed.

Please join us in protesting and trying to prevent the gill netting of Flathead Lake. When will killing fish just in order to spend rehabilitation money stop? Our children and their children deserve the chance to enjoy the natural resources that we have today.

Save our Flathead Lake Fishery Facebook page

Thank you,

Jay

Jay

[Quantoson]

Does anyone actually know if there is any legal recourse that we(the fishermen) have to stop the gill nets?

I have been working on that this morning.  Hopefully one of the IS members responds as a willing representative for us in the legal department.  I have cancelled all my work schedule for the next 3 weeks just to keep following up on this.

Just got off the phone with Rich Lindsey, a guide in Priest Lake concerning the meeting there tonight.  I will post his letter that will be read at that meeting in Priest Lake.

[Quantoson]

Rich Lindsey letter

I fish Priest Lake approximately 150 days annually.  As a guide I have an economical stake here. More importantly, I have a passion for GIANT Lake Trout, and seeing the faces of my clients light up when they catch one of these magnificent creatures.If something isn`t done to stop IDF&G's Lake Trout suppression my job, my lifelong passion for the pursuit of GIANT Lake Trout and spreading that enthusiasm to others, will be eliminated.There is only one Lake Trout fishery left in the entire Idaho Panhandle and IDF&G wants to eliminate this one too.

The Kokanee fishery is alive and doing very well. Daily limits are more than readily available for anglers that are competent. Last years fish averaged 13 to 16 inches and were caught throughout the lake.
Jim Fredericks, our regional fisheries biologist has said that last fall's spawning survey was at least double that of the previous year and that instead of counting individual spawning fish he was counting them five hundred at a time.
 
He has also stated that he does not know why they have made such a remarkable comeback in spite of the presence of the Lake Trout.
 
Since the implementation of the six fish no size restriction daily limit on Lake Trout their population has diminished significantly.. That may very well be a contributing factor in the recent resurgence of Kokanee in the lake. There may also be a naturally occurring reduction of mysis shrimp as is currently happening in Lake Pend Oreille.
As most of the successful Kokanee anglers will tell you,they are also catching significant numbers of Cutthroat trout which is in direct conflict with what the Idaho Fish and Game Dept. would like the general public to believe. IDF&G is also portraying the lake to be overrun with stunted Lake Trout that are only 14 to 20 inches in length. That is simply not true.
IDF&G says that they want to eliminate Lake Trout so they can restore the lake with a more robust, Kokanee, Cutthroat, and Bull Trout fishery. If that is so, why then don`t they close the streams during the spawning seasons for the Bull Trout and Cutthroat trout instead of leaving them open to yea- round angling pressure with no restrictions on types of bait being used ?  It seems to me that if they were indeed interested in helping those species they would implement more protective measures to help them.
 
Here`s something else to consider. If the Lake Trout were removed from the lake the main predator that consumes the mysis shrimp would be gone. We would then have a population explosion of shrimp and we would be right back where we were in the 1970s when we watched the total collapse of the Kokanee fishery.
 
Now we are faced with this question: How much will we sportsmen and women have to pay to remedy the damage that the IDF&G imposes this time, and how long will we have to wait for the damage to correct itself?
 
15 years ? 25 years ? More ?
 
It has already been 38 years since the Kokanee collapse of the seventies.
 
The answer is very simple. We have a very robust fishery as it exists today that costs nothing to maintain, provides a great sport fishery, and draws anglers looking for trophy lake trout and Kokanee to Priest Lake. It's the only place in the Panhandle where this exists - and at no cost to anyone.If IDF&G wants to protect other species, they must protect the streams while the fish are using them to spawn, and leave the rest of the lake inhabitants alone.
 
IDF&G already has an unfinished and costly project going on at Lake Pend Oreille. Let them complete that and show us what a great job they have done there before they come to this paradise and wreak havoc.
 
Priest Lake is the only place in North Idaho where fishers have an honest shot at landing a trophy Lake Trout of GIANT proportions AND catching a limit of Kokanee.
Anglers from all over the world come here to have a chance to land one of our lake's giant trout. The loss of this resource would most definitely have a devastating impact upon our local economy.
Priest Lake's Mackinaw fishery is a treasure to be sure, and it literally takes not one penny to maintain. Leave it alone. The anual cost for the Pend Oreille netting project for the year 2013 is projected to be $516,000. that`s right five hundred sixteen thousand dollars. and they are going to spend that amount of hard cash anually to destroy our world famous Priest Lake trout fishery.
 
I also find it to be very disingenuous for the IDF&G to try to have us believe that they will restore the Bull Trout population back to a point of being something that we can utilize as a sport fishery. You also must be aware that the entire Idaho Panhandle is closed to consumptive Cutthroat Trout fishing, with the exception of a few lakes.
I find the public press releases that the I.D.F.& G. is circulating to be very deceptive to say the least.

[Cornbread]

Does anyone actually know if there is any legal recourse that we(the fishermen) have to stop the gill nets?

Because treaty law trumps everything we can only make it known to the CSKT what we would like and hope a lot of tribal members agree, but the CSKT government does not listen to majority opinion even of their own tribe, the council in the end will do what it feels best. Just look at their recent settlement checks, the tribe overwhelmingly voted to get all of it in payment to individuals. The council wants to try and buy Kerr dam and be the organization that manages it and all power revenue it creates so instead of doing what the tribe wanted they kept back a portion of the settlement to put in to a tribal fund that the council can use at their discretion to try and buy Kerr dam or whatever else they cook up. The majority of the tribe was completely against that, the council did it anyway.

The best way we can beat this is to take away the monetary incentive, which means make it so the BPA doesn't want to do it and won't give the tribe money to do it. The minute the money dries up the CSKT will lose all interest in doing it. So appeals to the BPA and any other organization that will be funding this in any way are the best way to defeat it, and then once you start drying up the money spigot petition the tribe. That way the tribe gets to make the decision and look good without having to admit it was all about money. It allows them to save face and preserves the fishery.

[double_a85]

Its too bad the sequester and budget cuts wouldn't take the money that the tribe has budgeted for this project away---- Wouldn't this be considered wasteful spending and help slim down this massive budget/deficit?

[JayHelfrich]

Another area of concern in the suppression of walleye in Noxon Reservoir. Follow this link for more information and to comment on the plan.

http://fwp.mt.gov/news/newsReleases/fishing/nr_0733.html

Should we be spending money to remove fish that can boost an economy in an area hit hard by the loss of forestry jobs?

[PerchAssault]

I can't tell you how happy I am to see how quickly so many have educated themselves on this matter . Or have been paying attention and are just now vocalizing, but either way, so many here are right on the money.

The Hellgate treaty give tribal rights to traditional activity. I don't see how any court or judge would see that to mean managing a fishery to destruction of that fishery...but look what going on with the water rights compact...

In my discussions with BPA officials, and others discussions as well, I can tell you that they were surprised by the numbers of concerned anglers that commented to them when the public notice of the CSKT's intent to DO the EIS was published in the federal register about this time last year, and when the project was submitted to the ISRP. BPA can't afford a real ugly battle, both from a PR standpoint and a legal standpoint.  That is where we will win or lose the battle, funding.

Herb, if you find you are missing any key pieces of the puzzle, I may be able to help.
Jay, I will offer discount charters to folks who want to get out on Flathead, we will work to make it easy for folks to call, maybe a code or something, to receive it.
Everyone else, dig in, educate yourselves and be prepared for inteliigent rebuttal to what is sure to come from the organizations who support netting.

In two weeks, I will dedicate an entire episode of Snappy Sport Senters Flathead Outdoors Radio Show to the two key discussions I had with FWP Biologist Tom Weaver and TU President Bruce Farling, and post it to Soundcloud. You will want to share that everywhere...

Mike