Flathead lake trout article

[Cornbread]

Do we get a say in this? or is this something the tribe is just going to do without input from the people who actually use this fishery?
http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/Plans-eyed-to-remove-lake-trout-in-Flathead-Lake/-/14594602/19072896/-/tmuywkz/-/index.html

[missoulafish]

The tribe is going to gill net, thus the reason the State has separated themselves as much as they possibly can from this. None of it makes sense.

[Cornbread]

Well that stinks! But getting the tribe to make any sense of their fisheries or wildlife management plans is a lost cause I would guess from what I have seen in the past. Also getting tribal members to do something about anything that doesn't put short term money in their pockets is a lost cause as well, so getting the tribal members to try and make any issue of it is a no go too I would bet. It is sad to know such a great lake trout fishery is about to get trashed for a very long time and there is apparently nothing we or FWP can do about it? I know treaty law trumps everything else pretty much. What a waste.

[missoulafish]

It will be a PR nightmare.....

[PerchAssault]

Once the EIS is complete, there will be public comment on the  alternatives.  There is ALWAYS a "do nothing" alternative. (That is why, when you go to mack days website, there is a veiled threat to discontinue Mack Days if they don't get the chance to do more "suppression")
Then once public comment is gathered, the preffered alternative will be announced.
There will be a 25% reduction, a 50% reduction, a 75% reduction (preffered) and a do nothing alternative...

Then...we will see if our input counts...

Make NO MISTAKE, the Trout Unlimited folks will flood the comment with hundreds if not thousands of comments in favor of gillnetting. They will come in the form of generic templates that all people will have to do is click and submit...

They have already come out in favor of it, it's public knowledge, just look at their web page, and the President came right out and said so to me when I interviewed him on my radio show last year. THEY WANT THE LAKE TROUT GONE and will be the biggest challenge to those that don't want the lake gill netted.

IMO, this is no longer about balance, it is about NOT back pedaling on a plan that has been in place for over 2 decades to get rid of the lake trout.  Our FWP has come out strongly opposed to any further attempts at large scale suppression...this is strictly the CSKT driving this now, and getting the millions of dollars of BPA mitigation money that we ALL pay for every month with our electric bill...so, if we let them gill net, we will be paying for it...

Mike

[Quantoson]

Make NO MISTAKE, the Trout Unlimited folks will flood the comment with hundreds if not thousands of comments in favor of gillnetting. They will come in the form of generic templates that all people will have to do is click and submit...

Let's make our own generic template and make it available for download to each person requesting it and submit that.  I bet we can garnish the consensus.  I'll put the effort in on this if needed.

[Cornbread]

Let's make our own generic template and make it available for download to each person requesting it and submit that.  I bet we can garnish the consensus.  I'll put the effort in on this if needed.

If you can get a web server to set the site up on, I will help with any code that needs to be written for auto submittal of the form to an e-mail address or addresses, web page code etc. I can do php, python, ruby, C#, Asp.net C++ etc. so any server side code you need to make it happen I can write.

We would need someone to draft up the generic letter in Word saying exactly what is needed. From there as long as we have a web server or space on a web server set up from which we can run server side processing code of some sort I can write what needs to be written to do the auto submit. It would also be helpful to have a database server side to archive e-mail addresses as encrypted hashes so we can make sure we don't send out the letters more than one time per e-mail address. If we don't do that their e-mail servers would probably start blocking e-mails routed from our server real quick as spam vs. legitimate form e-mails.

[PerchAssault]

You GO guys!

Fighting fire with fire...

But I don't have a CLUE what Andy said after..."If you can get a web server to set the site up on" LOL!

[Quantoson]

I'm game Cornbread.  Let me get real facts and position the wording so as not to offend nor dismiss any important information.

[Cornbread]

I'm game Cornbread.  Let me get real facts and position the wording so as not to offend nor dismiss any important information.

OK sounds good to me. Let me know as soon as you have something I can do, and I will get started.

[J_Edwards]

Protecting native species, I get that... But how do these tards have so much power over valuable fisheries that bring in so much revenue to the state?  Just like those troots clowns vendetta against the Missouri River walleye, I'll never understand how they have so much power behind them.  I guess they are above my class, because everyone I know loves them.

[Batanga]

I miss the bulls as much as anyone, but its time to leave this lake alone!  I'll sign the letter...

[sra61]

It's time for us to s**t or get off the pot. I used to love to take my kids fishing on Flathead, and now I don't even go anymore. If there is anything I can do, I will help any way I can. This has made me so mad for so long.

[tiptoe]

Thanks for taking the initiative on this guys.  I look forward to taking part in the public comment period.

[BigSage]

I am happy to help in any way possible!

[sra61]

I secured the domain saveourflatheadfishery .com
I'm not sure what all will be needed. I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

[PerchAssault]

While a good name, there are MANY on the opposing side that feel that KILLING the lake trout would mean saving the Flathead Fishery...so it would probably get hijacked...just a thought. 

[sra61]

I really don't care what it's called. I like to catch fish. Lakers are fish. In my lifetime some of my best memories out on the water are of catching lakers. I have never had that prejudice against that specie of fish. I would like to help preserve what I have always personally viewed as the best fishery I know, that was Flathead Lake. To be absolutely honest, and I know God may strike me down, but I really never experienced great bull trout fishing, and don't miss it!

[JayHelfrich]

I'm up for putting some money in to help save what is the best and easily the most accessible lake trout fishery in the state.  I will let you know how much (it will be generous) when and if (when) we get something going.  I have only fished the lake a couple times but for YEARS it was a dream of mine to fish it.  Maybe we need to take some people out and show them what it is really like to fish for and catch these fish that will be destroyed because of the way this lake was managed.

Jay

[tiptoe]

Nice job sra61.  If you want to get a feel for the importance of this issue, take a look at the flathead Valley TU website.

[Wenger]

I would suggest thinking about a more cooperative approach by sportsmen that exploits any common ground rather than fisherman on fisherman fighting.

From a biological standpoint, a rapidly rising non native lake trout population which becomes the dominant species will suffer population crashes in time as the young become the food source. Is there not an argument for managing a sustainable population through controls? Or is it assumed the goal of the tribes to eliminate the lake trout? I am simply asking the question because what I have read the goal is to attain population levels that leave room for bulls, cutts and lakers.

The issue as I understand it will come down to ESA action concerning West Slope and bulls if the population declines are not reversed, which could include far more drastic action against invasive species such as lakers. I have seen this happen in the Colorado River concerning chubs and it is not pretty when you get Federal agencies trying to restore ecosystems to pristine conditions when it is obvious to all that can't be done.

[RAM1961]

Here's an editorial worth reading:

http://www.valleyjournal.net/Article/2018/Fisheries-need-protection-not-meddling

[Cornbread]

If we are going to do this in an organized fashion here are some things we need to know:

Where are we on getting a letter drafted that we can send out?
Where are we on getting server space for the web page sra61 got the domain for?
Where are we on getting the e-mail addresses of who the letter will be sent to each time somebody goes to the page and agrees to send the e-mail?
Besides for just a form to send the e-mail do we want to set it up as a full on web site with pages explaining the problem and what we are trying to do about it?
If we do want that who is going to write up the content for the explanation and contact pages?
Whose contact info is going to go on the contact page so people can ask them questions?

If we really are going to do this we need to start now and get it up and rolling as quickly as possible. We are already behind the folks with an opposing viewpoint so the sooner we catch up the better.

[sra61]

It seems to me the reality is that the lake trout will always be there. They will never get rid of them. I remember a few years ago when a third of the fish we caught were bulls. The last few times we went there we never caught one bull. I believe that they are killed incidentally. The pressure went up so drastically that the incidental catch of bulls went way up. I'm sure we all saw more than one bull trout floundering on the surface after being released. They just seem to be much more delicate. So what 's the plan? Kill enough lakers until the level is reached that the native bulls and cutts, that they will be aggressively stocking to replenish their numbers, can eke out a living? Oops, that's right they have no plans to stock anything do they? So how long will it take to turn this enormous system around? Generations, if they even can, which I am pretty sure they can't. I don't want to fight with anyone. Trout Unlimited has done great work, in my opinion. Some of them tend to get a little radical in my opinion too. It's a shame the bulls and cutts seem to be having such a hard time recovering. I guess the only real way to protect the thing would be to completely stop all fishing in the Flathead system, that way we could be sure that none of the right kind of fish would be killed. I just miss fishing Flathead, and it seems to me that history would teach us that the more we mess with it, the more messed up it will be. I personally know a number of good fishermen that have given up on it all. Why tilt at windmills? There are a lot of people out there that feel the same way. They have just given up. That's sad and that's how we lose what we love. I'm sure you all have much better ideas than I.

[RAM1961]

I haven't caught a bull trout in Flathead since the late 80's.  And a kokanee since the 70's.  People seem to forget (or are not aware) about the koke fishing back in the day....

[BigSage]

The Koke fishing was as good if not better than anywhere else!

[Quantoson]

I did a lot of research and reading. 

Here is a Dropbox link to the material and a short 2 page entro to my feelings.  I will need input from the group for contents of the petition.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1dy3qco1re7jsy3/NU8Isi9mHx

If you prefer that I email the doc I will be more than glad to do it. PM me with an email address. I would post it here but I don't know if it would be deleted.

[Quantoson]

OH NO!   How are we going to keep up with these guys???

http://www.flatheadbeacon.com/articles/article/public_comment_sought_for_flathead_river_hybrid_trout_removal/32024/

Short copy
As part of ongoing efforts to maintain populations of native westslope cutthroat trout, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks is proposing to continue removing hybrid and rainbow trout from the Flathead River drainage.

The public has until March 8 to comment on the Flathead River hybrid trout suppression project’s environmental assessment draft, released earlier this month for a 30-day public review. The project could get underway a week later on March 15, according to an anticipated schedule.

Let them know your comments here
fwp.mt.gov/news/publicNotices/environmentalAssessments/restorationAndRehab/pn_0113.html

[mtjim66]

I love this thread - it is great to see fishermen rallying on this topic.  In my opinion, there are some well meaning but misguided biologists who are spending BPA money on these projects in Northwest Montana with no real vision for the future.  It is important to note that this is not FWP money being spent on gill netting, I believe it is coming from the BPA.  FWP seems to have a "use it or lose it" mentality and therefore gil netting is where they want to spend this cash.  If you recall, some of this was discussed in a previous thread that I started on Swan Lake.  They have gill netted the s**t out of that lake and now the fishing is just plain crappy there for all the fish. 

One of the key points to make here is that there has never been a a truly successful gill netting project targeted at removing a non-native species anywhere on the planet.  The idea that FWP and/or the tribes "have to do something" is not an answer.  I will fully support this effort and I will also contribute $$ if necessary to help.  I have been watching this process on Swan for several years and it is not pretty.  We should not allow it to happen to Flathead.

[Quantoson]

I sent my comment in and here is the verification

From:    Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks <[email protected]>
This e-mail is simply to confirm that we have received your comments, it may be deleted.

Your comments:

I see mandatory closure for angling in these areas. With the elimination of sport fish, leaving only the cutthroat trout which most likely will not fair well, then having to classify the cutthroat as a species of concern or endangered removes all angling opportunities.

Please take the Bonneville Power Grant Funds and divide it amongst yourselves and stop killing all the fish.