IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
IceShanty Main => General Ice Fishing Chit Chat => Topic started by: thomasthepikehunter on Aug 29, 2014, 09:56 PM
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I should start off with saying I have used Amsoil products in tons of different things, and feel it is some of the best available. With that said, I am totally disappointed in the company. As this is an ice fishing forum, almost everyone has dealt with 2 stroke oils for their augers. As many know (or should know) how good an oil is can be seen by how well it is certified. Two of the most common certifications are TCW3 and API TC. The first is for water cooled 2 strokes, the second air cooled 2 strokes. There are also many more that have different tests, but that doesn't matter here. My #1 gripe with Amsoil is their total lack of common sense. The most obvious example is posted right on the front of many of the bottles. Mix 100:1. I'm not going to get into an argument on whether this is ok for an auger. An ice auger is a low-output, low use engine, and 100:1 may be just fine. The idea that you can mix this at 100:1 and use it in "any 2 stroke for x, y, or z certification" (cant remember the exact ones listed) is complete bogus. First of all, you can't run 100:1 in any 2 stroke, you just cant. There are very few kinds of engines where 100:1 is "possibly" sufficient. The next in line is where they say you can use it in place of certain certifications. In the link I'll post is all the oils that are TCW3 certified, and guess what? Amsoil is not listed on there even ONCE! Out of all of their oils, NONE are TCW3 certified. I have a feeling if there is a list of other certifications, Amsoil would not be on theirs either. Here is the clincher, I have talked face to face with an Amsoil distributor, and they have said with absolute certainty that the oil is certified. The oil in question was Amsoil Saber outboard, and whether it was TCW3 certified. What kind of company tells you to run their oil in ridiculously thin mixtures, for all kinds of engines, and not even tests them! I don't care how good your product is. If the company is too cheap to properly test oil like any other company, and have distributors that will blatantly lie to your face, I want nothing to do with them.
https://www.nmma.org/certification/certification/oil/tc-w3.aspx
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All my Yamaha outboards that take pre-mix are specified to run 100:1. The expensive XD-100 oil from BRP is not on the list either. The whole TC-W3 is a pay to use money maker. You pay the money and you can put the stamp on your oil. Makes you wonder how many shotty oils get the TC-W3 rating just because they paid for it.
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All my Yamaha outboards that take pre-mix are specified to run 100:1. The expensive XD-100 oil from BRP is not on the list either. The whole TC-W3 is a pay to use money maker. You pay the money and you can put the stamp on your oil. Makes you wonder how many shotty oils get the TC-W3 rating just because they paid for it.
X2. Have ran amsoil in many engines around my household with zero problems. My old jiffy 30 screams with the sabre oil mixed at 100:1. Run this same mix in weedeater and chainsaw as well with good results. They have been around a long time. Have not heard of many people that can say amsoil ruined an engine. As mentioned, just because they dont pay to be certified it dont scare me. If that is a deal breaker for someone then use something else.
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So what brought all this on? Did you have a failure with something or did you just finally read the label and realize it wasn't certified? I don't use Amsoil Sabre but I do use Opti2 which, like Sabre, is a 100:1 mix ratio. It isn't TC whatever certified either. However, it does meet all manufacturer specs and is ISO compliant which in my opinion is better than any other certification out there. I run it at approximately 90:1 to 80:1 by the time i get done measuring it. All my two stroke engines love it. I have yet to hear a bad thing about Amsoil Sabre either. If you're going to bash a product due to some arbitrary certification atleast have an argument to present as to why its an issue...
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What brought it on was talking face to face with an Amsoil dealer, and being lied to. Even after calling him out, he pointed at the bottle and said "see, for any TCW3 certifed applications." I'm not sure if you read my whole post, but I state I have used Amsoil many times, and it is some of the best there is. I have never had a failure with Amsoil, actually I've never had a failure with any 2 stroke. At least not to where the engine was ruined. I've only heard of one failure ever in person. A friend of mine had an auger that came from the factory running very lean. I'm not going to mention brand here. He used 100:1 Amsoil saber professional, and it ran good for about 4 years. Then his engine seized. Not really the oils fault. The real answer is to properly jet the carb, but California wont allow that. Would it still be running if it were mixed at manufacturing specs of 40:1? I would bet so. And that's the whole point, manufacturers state a specific ratio for a reason. While I'll admit they are usually on the safe side, running less than half the recommended oil is asking for trouble. It doesn't matter how good the oil is, it can only go so far. Would you run your car 2-3 quarts low on oil just because you are using the best oil you can get? I could pull out numerous reasons why you shouldn't lean out oil like that, but it really doesn't mean much to an auger with its 2 hp. Small engines like augers, chainsaws, weed wackers, etc. are generally considered to have light loads. They can usually last at 100:1. Outboards are also usually fine with their consistent temperatures and lower rpms. Anything else though is pushing it. 2 stroke lawn mowers won't last on 100:1. Neither will pit bikes, 4 wheelers, or go carts. They will self destruct in high performance engines like dirt bikes and snowmobiles. Against what Amsoil claims you cannot run the same fuel in a 32 cc chainsaw as you can a 250 cc dirtbike. It doesn't matter anyway, as Amsoil has nothing to back up those claims. Instead it uses ill-informed distributors to spread the lies. This is not the kind of company I want to support. There are many other companies with great products, that are possibly just as good as Amsoil. I support companies who produce quality products, has proof to back up their claims, and stands behind their products. While Amsoil produces good products, it has nothing but hearsay to back it up, and they don't stand behind their products at all. Well they do until someone ruins their engine running way too little oil. Its not really the product itself I have a problem with, its how the company chooses to promote it.
By the way Opti2 is iso-egd certified as far as I can tell.
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Dear Thomasthepikehunter, Et AL,
I am compelled by my own integrity to inform all, of recently posted misstatements, to wit: Amsoil doesn't use distributors.
Opposed to that, Amsoil uses Distribution Centers to expedite a timely delivery by placing them in various areas around the Planet.
Amsoil has a dealer network, some Amsoil dealers service retail accounts, some Amsoil dealers attend the Amsoil University training/learning seminars in Superior WI, some Amsoil dealers are mechanics with their own shops and some Amsoil dealers have been Lifetime Dealers for very many years, until that option was discontinued many years ago.
Any question(s) will be accurately answered by an Amsoil Technician or an Amsoil Chemist by calling (715)392-7101
They are there during common sense, normal business hours in the Central Time Zone.
(It amazes me how a knowledgeable person, having proven to themself, the best products available, with the Gold Standard Warranty, would allow a lessor product to enter their equipment.
I'm reminded of reading, "Woe is the man that strains at a gnat and swallows a mountain".
That just baffles me.
It shows me I haven't seen it all in 76 years, many of those years as a Lifetime Amsoil Dealer.)
Thanks for reading. ;)2
Tom
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Idahogator, I believe you are correct on the distributor thing. I think what I was thinking of was dealers. I'm talking about people who sell amsoil, and spread the name, and aren't necessarily a shop. It kind of disappoints me that you feel Amsoil is THE top oil, and the only thing you should run. You should know there is no best oil. If you've been around Amsoil for 76 years, you should have quite a voice in the company. Change the packaging, and quit making ludicrous claims of your product. Its that simple. Start treating Amsoil like the amazing product it is, rather than the snake oil you claim it to be.
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Idahogator, I believe you are correct on the distributor thing. I think what I was thinking of was dealers. I'm talking about people who sell amsoil, and spread the name, and aren't necessarily a shop. It kind of disappoints me that you feel Amsoil is THE top oil, and the only thing you should run. You should know there is no best oil. If you've been around Amsoil for 76 years, you should have quite a voice in the company. Change the packaging, and quit making ludicrous claims of your product. Its that simple. Start treating Amsoil like the amazing product it is, rather than the snake oil you claim it to be.
WOW!!! Let the games begin.
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(http://i58.tinypic.com/zsqs5t.jpg)
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Been using Amsoil Saber Professional mixed 80:1 in all my 2 strokes for around 20 years with zero problems. I called Amsoil and talked to a petroleum engineer about the oil and why it can be used at such a ratio. After he explained why it works I never looked back. I think the experience I have had with this lubricant speaks for itself as the engines I use the mixture in recommend using ratios from 32:1to 50:1. I know other brands are out there, but have not found any reason to change brands. Each to his own when it comes to equipment I guess.
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Idahogator, I believe you are correct on the distributor thing. I think what I was thinking of was dealers. I'm talking about people who sell amsoil, and spread the name, and aren't necessarily a shop. It kind of disappoints me that you feel Amsoil is THE top oil, and the only thing you should run. You should know there is no best oil. If you've been around Amsoil for 76 years, you should have quite a voice in the company. Change the packaging, and quit making ludicrous claims of your product. Its that simple. Start treating Amsoil like the amazing product it is, rather than the snake oil you claim it to be.
I'm sure there were some nice compliments mentioned, in my favor, thanks gents.
Sorry if I disappointed with what was mistaken as my emotions, aka, feelings, as regards The First in Synthetics, Amsoil.
The first API approved automotive gas engine lubricant was on the market in 1972, just a few years after I fell off the turnip wagon. Three years later I came to know of Al Amatuzio, a retired pilot from the USAF and his curiosity of what lubricant was keeping his Fighter jet flying. There is a lot more to his interesting story on CD.
I refuse to apologize for what I know to be facts, having proven through study of formulations and personal use of Amsoil products.
I'll make a feeble attempt to qualify myself: Test engineer on the Lunar Lander Project, (they came back to Earth).
Lifelong mechanic, with abstract reasoning aptitude, graded nationwide of 99 percentile.
Automotive repair shop owner for longer than I care to state, finally retired.
Ranger, Florida Board of Parks and Historic Memorials, to many years in that humidity.
And as to using products of lessor quality than Amsoil, I can't afford it.
When I phone Amsoil to place an order, they ask for my dealer number, as that is the only connection I have with Amsoil and have no more say in policy than anyone, even you Thomasthepikehunter.
Thanks again, for reading. ;)2
Tom
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As da young'uns would say, Oh Snap! ;D
Oh, and it's going to be a really loooong winter if this stuff is starting the end of August. ;)
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I should not get wrapped up in this discussion - but. Been using the AMSOIL Saber in my Rotax 503 powered ultralight for over 10 years - mixed 100:1. What can I say, I and several others in the UL flying business won't use anything else at that ratio. Trusting an oil mixed at 100:1 in something that puts you thousands of feet in the air is quite a testimonial.
Anyways - their claims are NOT absurd!
Leaving the best oil there is because of what some dealer may have said is what is absurd. Sorry!
I wish I was on the ice. @)
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Been running Amsoil 100:1 in every 2 stroke engine I have owned since it came out. That would be snowmobiles, dirt bikes, weed eaters, chainsaws, boat motors and yes my ice auger.
Never have had a problem.
When I hear about engines seizing up I always wonder what caused them to seize up and what seized up. Was it the rings, piston, rod bearings or what?
Was it the oil, water in the gas, phase separation of the gas, water in the intake because of no air cleaner?
You mentioned that your friend had an engine running lean? Would that be the oil to gas mixture lean or the gas to air mixture lean?
Two different mixtures and they both effect the engine differently.
Say for example your engine is running a 50 to 1 oil mixture and you change to 100 to 1 oil mixture the engine fuel to air mixture will now be rich and you would have to rejet leaner on the jetting!
Someone gave you some misinformation blame the person not the product!
Chainsaws are not light use engines! Most run in some of the worst environments and under full load!
By the way an engine can be rejetted if the manufacturer so notes in in the mfg shop manual.
And really a 2 stroke lawn mower haven't seen one of those for years and years?
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I've been using Amsoil since the mid 70's in every 2 stroke engine at 100:1 with no problems. Also use Seafoam and Startron with non oxy gas. It's nice not having engine problems.
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Gentlemen ! :bow: :thumbsup:
Live long, and prosper. ;)2
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ill take the easy starts on frigid days and stick with amsoil
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I'll stick with Amsoil also. To the OP, if you say it's some of the best out there, then why wouldn't you use it? Who cares what the bottle says or the rep. It's still a good product.
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I am curious...why are guys mixing at 100:1 when the owners manual states 40:1??? Well in the case of a Jiffy at least.
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Welcome to Iceshanty, ChickenRancher1. ;)2
We mix as we do, because science has proven the truth of the "Label" instructions.
It is your choice to gunk up an engine, not to worry though, Amsoil has a product to clean that mistake from within. Amsoil Power Foam , better than a tune-up in a can.
Good luck the up coming season, CR.
:icefish:
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Thank you. I would only be concerned with the manufactures warranty being void if something unfortunate happened.
Best on the upcoming season to all who toil for the hard water thrill.
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Chickenrancher1, there is no real reason to use less oil. Amsoil will tell you differently. You need 100:1 to keep your engine clean? Strange my auger isn't completely black inside after 30 years of running 40:1. Running less than the manufacturers ratio may void the warranty, as will using oil that is not certified. Amsoil claims it will cover the cost of damages while using their product. If you trust that, go ahead. You wan't to know something funny? I've seen multiple studies that proved more oil provides more power. The last one I read found a mix of 18:1 provided the most power. That was under extreme load (dyno testing), at full throttle however. In the case of an auger, it makes no real difference. If your carb is adjusted properly, 100:1 does not provide easier starting, does not make your engine cleaner, and it does not provide more power. My auger doesn't really smoke at all once warmed up, so I can't see how running 100:1 would provide any real benefit in the area of smoke. In terms of lubrication, 100:1 just does not provide enough. Under optimum conditions maybe. FISHFORPIKE Running 100:1 in that ultralight is straight up foolish. You are trusting your life to something you don't fully understand. I'll admit I don't know everything either. You are a prime example of why what Amsoil is doing is wrong. It might sound crazy on this board, but Amsoil is not the single best product out there. Motul, Castrol, Maxima, Penzoil, and many others make oil that is just as good as Amsoil. They each have something a little different, but used correctly, they are all about equal. Some work better in the cold, some smoke less, some are for air cooled motors, some for liquid cooled motors. None of them do it all, and none of them provide more than double the lubrication of the others.
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I used TruFuel in my auger. Worked great..
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-TruFuel-40-1-Pre-Oil-Mix-6525538/203571069 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-TruFuel-40-1-Pre-Oil-Mix-6525538/203571069)
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Grab your salt shaker folks and chew on the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act)
In the study of strange, new things, I warn you, never go past a word you don't understand. :nono:
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Don't know what to say - except - experience speaks for itself. Taking risks such as can be life threatening is not in me, at least not past going up in the air. So far landing have equaled takeoffs and that is after more than 15 years and 7500 hours of doing what you term foolish. So be it. I am still here and will continue to be an avid AMSOIL user. There may well be oils that are as good but for my experience, I'm not willing to experiment. Mind you, I am not the one that did the experimentation - others before me and setups in static testing took all the risk out of it for me. @)
By the way, my wife feels that I am as foolish as you might. But for different reasons. I can't get her up in the air, or out on the ice. :P
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Well said, FFP. ;)2
Knowledge replaces doubt and fear. ;)2
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There is no disadvantage to running more oil, so whats your point? Amsoil's push for 100:1 in every two stroke is reckless. Even if you do go your whole life without a problem, I guarantee you would have a healthier engine with the recommended oil ratio. Still 2t oil is only half the battle. Does anyone even want to touch Amsoil's claim of improved gas mileage in cars? I've seen anywhere from 6.5%-15% gains. Unless they somehow figured out how to avoid physics, its all smoke an mirrors. You can probably run plenty of two stroke oils at 100:1 and not have problems. The difference is decent companies realize not all engines are created equal. You don't see Klotz claiming their great smell makes your engine run better. I would argue in outright lubrication under extreme conditions, castor based oil is superior to synthetic. Many would agree with me. The two biggest names I know of are Castrol and Maxima. Neither claim 100:1 ratios in anything.
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(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy238/upjigstick/duty_calls.png)
Something about dead horses, too. ;)
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Remember....it's all about science not your emotions!
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I have used Amsoil in snowmobiles, weedeaters, chainsaws, blowers as well as ice augers and have never had a problem with any of them. I also feel that the engines run cleaner and the spark plugs do not foul because of the synthetic oil properties. It would appear that the real reason that the Amsoil contraversy came up was due to a conversation that went afoul with an Amsoil dealer. Just because someone has a run in with a misinformed dealer of a product, does not make the product bad. What solid proof do you have that Amsoil and the 100:1 mix is bad and deserves your degradation of the product based on your expert analysis? I am sure many people will continue to buy and use Amsoil mainly due to the fact that it is a good sound product from a good sound company and they have had good results from using it. If you feel that Amsoil is a bad product, then don't use it. The rest of us users will most likely continue to have good results regardless of your expert opinion of the product.
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If the 100:1 ratio was destroying and locking up engines that some people's lives depend on, Amsoil would have been out of business long ago from lawsuits from the families of the victims of the horrible 100:1 recommendation. I have yet to come across a bad review or a catastrophic failure of any engine that has had this oil put in it. Just like everything else, time will tell and in this case I think it has...
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Run Ams in everything with cylinders. A buddy of mine runs a dyno at the HD PDC (Product Development Center), dude tests motors using every oil on the planet in just about every condition imaginable. I was lucky enough to tour the PDC a few years back and he show me wear tests done on Revolution motors (V Rod). Same conditions, same duration (24 hr test), three different oils.....HD Syn, M1 and Ams. The cylinder wear on the Ams motor was 1/2 that of other two. Simply put. It kept the motors running cooler, longer.
I never used anything else in my motrocycles, toys and cars again.
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Unless you are a chemical engineer then you cannot say what the oil does or does not do. All we can do is rely on the research done and all the research that I have read done by affiliated and non affiliated parties says it does not harm engines and in some cases makes (some not all) them run better.
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I should start off with saying I have used Amsoil products in tons of different things, and feel it is some of the best available.
A little confused here. You start off by saying that you have used amsoil and think its some of te best out there. And later in this thread you say amsoil is terrible for engines and should not be used. You are upset because you were give. Bad information from and uninformed dealer and you have completely changed thoughts. Pick a side and stick to it.
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I have another thought on the Amsoil issue. I feel that as fellow Ice Shanty members, we have an obligation to not make unjustified statements about products from companies that might be interested in being sponsers on Ice Shanty. There are hundreds of Ice Shanty members that are satisfied users of Amsoil and other products. If a company is going to be bashed by a few misinformed members, they probably will not be interested in helping to promote the sport that we all love. If we have had bad luck with a certain item, it may be allright to relate a bad experience, after all, that is how companies are able to improve their products is by knowing their downfalls. We should not be calling individuals blatent liars or indicating that companies are making fraudulent claims without proof. Thanks for reading. Happy trails!
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A little confused here. You start off by saying that you have used amsoil and think its some of te best out there. And later in this thread you say amsoil is terrible for engines and should not be used. You are upset because you were give. Bad information from and uninformed dealer and you have completely changed thoughts. Pick a side and stick to it.
I never said it would damage an engine when used properly. 100:1 is not using it properly. Use it at manufacturers specs, and it will work great. I'm not bashing the product, I'm calling out Amsoil on its ridiculous claims with no proof.
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Unless you are a chemical engineer then you cannot say what the oil does or does not do. All we can do is rely on the research done and all the research that I have read done by affiliated and non affiliated parties says it does not harm engines and in some cases makes (some not all) them run better.
You don't have to be a chemist to see the results of a micrograph. I'd take the word of a metallurgist, who's studying the effects of lubricants on metals, over that of a chemist who says this is what a product should or shouldn't do. Chemists aren't testing products, metallurgists and engineers are.
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I'd have to say in all my years working/rebuilding engines, reading threads like these, hearing from people that use the product, hearing from my mechanic buddies, reading reports, and stats, and I've only ever heard one bad report from ONE mechanic about it, but he had no proof it was the Amsoil that directly caused the problem he experienced...he admitted that. All it takes is a couple of problems with a product, and the entire world knows about...hence threads like these.
A few blown engines here and there, et., and Amsoil is gonna be the "villian". I've yet to hear that about Amsoil.
I have to state the proof is in the overall actual experiences...all I which I have heard nothing but good about it.
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Would anyone who is being forced to use Amsoil please say so. We have already heard from folks who use it and like it and those who don't. I have been using it for a long time with no problems and someone else trusts it with his life in his ultralight aircraft, but didn't state anyone forced him to use it. If you don't care to use it, don't use it, but why browbeat those who do? ???
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here is the answer. if you want to run amsoil sabre at 100:1, 80:1, 50:1 or 40:1 do it, its a free country. run what you want how you want and stop complaining. hell if you don't want to run amsoil that's fine too.
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With fishing websites, threads like this are usually explained with a, "it's been a long winter".
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I have been using saber for about 10 years on all my Stihl equipment, ice augers, etc. I love it. I mix without measuring exactly but between 75 or 100 to 1. Nothing but good to say.
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I use Saber Pro in all small engines at 80:1 . I've also used Amsoil Outboard oil but not the last couple years because I couldn't find it but it says on the bottle TCW3 and a ratio of 50:1. Maybe its changed in the last couple years ?
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Well after reading through this whole thread I've been converted, I will begin using amsoil exclusively in my auger from now on. Thanks to all the guys with experience and history with the product for speaking up.
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I have used Amsoil in snowmobiles, weedeaters, chainsaws, blowers as well as ice augers and have never had a problem with any of them. I also feel that the engines run cleaner and the spark plugs do not foul because of the synthetic oil properties. It would appear that the real reason that the Amsoil contraversy came up was due to a conversation that went afoul with an Amsoil dealer. Just because someone has a run in with a misinformed dealer of a product, does not make the product bad. What solid proof do you have that Amsoil and the 100:1 mix is bad and deserves your degradation of the product based on your expert analysis? I am sure many people will continue to buy and use Amsoil mainly due to the fact that it is a good sound product from a good sound company and they have had good results from using it. If you feel that Amsoil is a bad product, then don't use it. The rest of us users will most likely continue to have good results regardless of your expert opinion of the product.
Not sure how I missed this. I never claimed to be an expert. I'm just a guy who likes to work on motors, and has done tons of research on 2 strokes in particular. I have raced 2 stroke dirtbikes for years, and that is my main info-gathering for kinds of oil. I just thought I'd throw this out there, but I run 32:1 in my bike, and I've never fouled the spark plug. I've fouled more spark plugs in 4 strokes than 2 strokes. That's mostly due to me running 4 stroke plugs till they fail, and changing 2 stroke plugs every couple of years. I ran Amsoil Interceptor all last year in my dirtbike. It did fine, and kept the engine clean, especially the power valve. Still plenty of people kept nagging for me to try 50:1 as it says on the bottle. The reason I run premium oils is to extend engine life. I've never seized a 2 stroke. I've taken them apart with low compression, even major scoring, but with proper oil, they will rarely fail. What a lot of people don't realize, is a ton on engine wear occurs right at start up. Usually during a rebuild, you can notice an engine has a pool of oil in the bottom end which protects the engine on start up. With how little oil goes through a 2 stroke anyway, I have a really hard time believing half the amount of oil is enough. But since the only thing people listen to is "I've used it, and my motor still works," how about some simple logic? No other company claims you can use a 100:1 ratio in any 2 stroke, which is often less than half what the manufacturer recommends. Is Amsoil more than twice as good as any other oil out there? No, its not. The fact that the company will continue to claim such with little to base it on is why I feel they are not a good, sound company.
I think I've got my point across, whether anyone agrees with me or not, so be it. I'll leave it at this.
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My stuff has never run better since switching to the 100:1 Saber
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Not sure how I missed this. I never claimed to be an expert. I'm just a guy who likes to work on motors, and has done tons of research on 2 strokes in particular. I have raced 2 stroke dirtbikes for years, and that is my main info-gathering for kinds of oil. I just thought I'd throw this out there, but I run 32:1 in my bike, and I've never fouled the spark plug. I've fouled more spark plugs in 4 strokes than 2 strokes. That's mostly due to me running 4 stroke plugs till they fail, and changing 2 stroke plugs every couple of years. I ran Amsoil Interceptor all last year in my dirtbike. It did fine, and kept the engine clean, especially the power valve. Still plenty of people kept nagging for me to try 50:1 as it says on the bottle. The reason I run premium oils is to extend engine life. I've never seized a 2 stroke. I've taken them apart with low compression, even major scoring, but with proper oil, they will rarely fail. What a lot of people don't realize, is a ton on engine wear occurs right at start up. Usually during a rebuild, you can notice an engine has a pool of oil in the bottom end which protects the engine on start up. With how little oil goes through a 2 stroke anyway, I have a really hard time believing half the amount of oil is enough. But since the only thing people listen to is "I've used it, and my motor still works," how about some simple logic? No other company claims you can use a 100:1 ratio in any 2 stroke, which is often less than half what the manufacturer recommends. Is Amsoil more than twice as good as any other oil out there? No, its not. The fact that the company will continue to claim such with little to base it on is why I feel they are not a good, sound company.
I think I've got my point across, whether anyone agrees with me or not, so be it. I'll leave it at this.
Want to race my Dirt bike with 100-1 mix against your 32-1. You will loose!
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No other company claims you can use a 100:1 ratio in any 2 stroke, which is often less than half what the manufacturer recommends. Is Amsoil more than twice as good as any other oil out there? No, its not. The fact that the company will continue to claim such with little to base it on is why I feel they are not a good, sound company.
I think I've got my point across, whether anyone agrees with me or not, so be it. I'll leave it at this.
You got your point across and this subject appears every year. As far as Amsoil being the only company to say you can use their 2 stroke oil mixed 100:1, I disagree. Some people on IS use Opti 2 in their augers. Opti 2 is ok for use in any 2 stroke mixed 3.2 oz of oil to 2.5 gallons gas which is 100:1 according to what I have read. Now there are two companies claiming the same ratio and an online search could possibly find more. One advantage I find while using Amsoil is I no longer have a black discharge coming from the muffler of any of my 2 strokes. Nuff said.
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One time on the line, another mx'er saw there was no smoke coming from my exhaust. He quickly informed us, and my dad and I told him we must of forgot to put the oil in the gas. His look was priceless! We kept it serious and told him we would race anyway because there was not time to go back to the pits. I know he was surprised when I won the race, but if I remember correctly, I think his bike smoked allot less after that!
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I heard they used Amsoil on Chevy's saucer... ;)2 ;D
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Hilarious :roflmao: :woot: :whistle: :angel
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You guys really like to egg me on. It has been proven more oil provides more power. Simple as that. I'm trying to tell you that Amsoil has you brainwashed into a completely false way of thinking. I guess some people just wont listen. ::)
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You guys really like to egg me on. It has been proven more oil provides more power. Simple as that. I'm trying to tell you that Amsoil has you brainwashed into a completely false way of thinking. I guess some people just wont listen. ::)
Nobody's egging you on except you. I figured this thread needed to be lightened up some. We've all stated our opinions and and our feelings on the matter. People are entitled to believe in what they want, for their own reasons, and they will, regardless of someone elses viewpoint. Let's give it a rest. ;)
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;D Maybe I have come up with a solution as to why this 2 cycle mixture war has occurred and why we are beating this horse to death ! :o I think the engine manufacturers specify 50:1, 40:1, 32:1 or whatever to cover their butt for warranty purposes, that way if someone wants to use any other brand other than what they recommend, they will be covered. After all, you can over lubricate a 2 stroke and still be alright, if you don't mind the smoke, etc. If you under lubricate, you will be doing damage. The engine manufacturer can't make a 100:1 recommendation because they know that not all oils out there that a person may use will provide the protection needed at 100:1. Several of the newer synthetics provide that protection at 100:1, but can be mixed at a stronger ratio to cover the engine manufacturers recommendations. ;) Hopefully we can let this horse rest before we do beat it to death. :-\ Happy trails ! :)
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You guys really like to egg me on. It has been proven more oil provides more power. Simple as that. I'm trying to tell you that Amsoil has you brainwashed into a completely false way of thinking. I guess some people just wont listen. ::)
I'm not egging you on - we have a difference of opinion and I'm not changing mine - based on years of experience. You prolly won't change yours and likely won't change that of anyone that has taken part in this "discussion". So be it. There are lots of other things that I have an opinion on, very few of those opinions have ever been changed. Still, I like to hear about different opinions, no matter what they are based on.
Enjoy whatever oil suits your needs/requirements - I know I do.
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I'm trying to tell you that Amsoil has you brainwashed. ::)
:cookoo: Sorry that didn't come to fruition. That must be very frustrating for you.
I wish you the best in all your future endeavors. ;)2
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You guys really like to egg me on. It has been proven more oil provides more power. Simple as that. I'm trying to tell you that Amsoil has you brainwashed into a completely false way of thinking. I guess some people just wont listen. ::)
OK show me the PROOF that Amsoil at 100:1 makes less power than other oils mixed below 100/1!
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I guess my Stihl chainsaw and Tanaka power head are destined to die as they both have had Amsoil 100-1 in them for years now. So with that said I guess I will give them another dose as they seem to like it. May they die happy.
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I for one think Thomasterpikehunter is right. STOP USING AMSOIL NOW!!! It is very bad for your engines. You are imagining that your engines start better,run cleaner and don't smoke. It's just a coincidence that your engines aren't carboning up and your mufflers don't drip gunk all over. Stop using it immediately and send it to me I will dispose of it for you.
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You guys really like to egg me on. It has been proven more oil provides more power. Simple as that. I'm trying to tell you that Amsoil has you brainwashed into a completely false way of thinking. I guess some people just wont listen. ::)
Can you show me why you think more oil is more power?
Did you ever run a two stroke with no oil in the gas, or see It done? Was it faster right before it seized? Or did it slow down and give some warning?
Do you put an extra quart of oil in your cars and trucks?
If you think that oil is power! You are wrong! Oil is friction also? You only need enough oil to protect the parts being used. Any more oil than needed causes heat.the new cars use 5wsomething for gas saving. Putting heavier weight oil in the newer car engines drops the performance and uses more gas.
Back to the 2 strokes. Using amsoil 100-1 in an engine at 40-1 is crazy! Anything other than 100-1 mixtures and your performance drops. The only thing it may do is convince the user its best so he or she can sleep better. I caught allot of people sleeping on the racetrack.
Please feel free to test for yourself. Using a stopwatch with both mixtures. Let us know what you find. We are listening!
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(http://i60.tinypic.com/2m2cq5c.jpg) ;D
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Oil burns but not nearly as fast as gas does. If the mixture you are running has significantly higher levels of oil than what is intended you are slowing down the rate of burn. The combustion chamber is designed for a certain volume of air, fuel and lubricating oil. It only has room for so much, so if your mixture has extra oil it is taking the place of the fuel thus leading to lean burn.
lean = hot = bad news
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SABER® Professional Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil
One Oil Covers All Mix Ratios
Designed for pre-mix applications as lean as 100:1 ratios or richer. Improves throttle response and lowers or eliminates smoke. Minimizes deposit formation and lowers emissions. Performance emphasis on hand-held power equipment such as chainsaws and lawn/utility equipment.
JASO FD, ISO-L-EGD, API TC
While two-stroke engines are widely used in handheld power equipment due to their high power-to-weight ratio, equipment owners and operators are faced with exhaust smoke, the task of properly mixing oil and gas for different equipment manufacturers, and premature wear and engine failure. AMSOIL SABER® Professional Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil effectively addresses these issues and more. Specially formulated for pre-mix, air-cooled applications, it withstands high heat and stress to protect engines against wear and harmful deposits. SABER Professional offers outstanding protection and performance at lean mix ratios referred to as the SABER Ratio™. Using the SABER Ratio eliminates the need for mixing different ratios for different equipment, while smoke is virtually undetectable. With AMSOIL SABER Professional, there is no compromise. It saves time and money while delivering the ultimate convenience and engine protection.
AMSOIL Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil has been providing improved performance and protection in two-stroke engines since 1973. Trust the extensive experience of AMSOIL, The First in Synthetics®, to do the best job protecting your engine.
Engine Protection
SABER Professional has been tested and proven to provide premium protection and performance at 100:1 mix ratios. It is recommended for any mix ratio up to 100:1. When tested at half the treat rate for conventional oils (100:1 vs. 50:1), SABER Professional easily passed the industry-standard lubricity test. SABER Professional is designed for hot-operating two-stroke engines, effectively fighting carbon/deposit formation and preventing ring sticking.
Smokeless Operation
SABER Professional's synthetic formulation burns clean, passing the industry-standard smoke test at the standard rich mix ratio. When mixed at the SABER Ratio, smoke is virtually undetectable. Equipment operators subjected to smoke and fumes benefit from these low-emission properties.
Fuel Stabilization
SABER Professional provides the additional benefit of fuel stabilization to help prevent fuel from deteriorating during storage and causing poor engine performance. There is no need to add an additional fuel stabilizer when putting equipment into seasonal storage.
Excellent lubricity and cleanliness properties
Controls friction and helps prevent wear, plug fouling, ring sticking and exhaust port blocking
Smokeless – delivers fewer emissions at 80:1 and 100:1 mix ratios.
Stabilizes fuel for off-season storage
Delivers outstanding protection and performance at lean mix ratios
Anti-rust formulation counteracts the damp environments often encountered in two-stroke applications
APPLICATIONS
SABER Professional is specifically designed for handheld pre-mix two-stroke power equipment including, but not limited to, chainsaws, trimmers, blowers, brush cutters, edgers and shredder vacs.
Use at conventional mix ratios or the SABER® Ratio,™ regardless of the mix ratio specified for the equipment. For maximum benefit, use the SABER Ratio.
MIX RATIO OIL FUEL
Conventional 32:1 4.0 OZ 1 U.S. gallon
Conventional 40:1 3.2 OZ 1 U.S. gallon
Conventional 50:1 2.6 OZ 1 U.S. gallon
SABER® Ratio™ 80:1 1.6 OZ 1 U.S. gallon
SABER® Ratio™ 100:1 1.3 OZ 1 U.S. gallon
HEALTH & SAFETY
This product is not expected to cause health concerns when used for the intended application and according to the recommendations in the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). An MSDS is available via the Internet at www.amsoil.com or upon request at (715) 392-7101. Keep Out of Reach of Children. Don’t pollute. Return used oil to collection centers.
For warranty information, visit www.amsoil.com/warranty.aspx.
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
Saber® Professional Synthetic 100:1 Pre-Mix 2-Cycle Oil (ATP)
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D445)
11.1
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D445)
71
Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270)
147
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D97)
-43 (-45)
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D92)
102 (216)
Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D92)
102 (216)
That should clear up any remaining doubt. ;)2
Rebelss, your levity created a thirst for some south of the border barley pop. :woot: :thumbsup: :roflmao:
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Idahogator, would it bother you if I add Saber Outboard 100:1 (ATO) Pre-Mix, TC-W3, API TC?
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Oh ! No bother at all, ice dawg. ;)2
I can add it here. It's just a bit thicker.
Outboard 100:1 Pre-Mix Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil
Designed for pre-mix applications as lean as 100:1 ratios or richer. Improves throttle response and lowers or eliminates smoke. Minimizes deposit formation and lowers emissions. Performance emphasis on the cooler operations of water-cooled motors.
Product Code: ATOBC-EA Ordering Instructions
Package Size:
Unit of Measure:
Quantity:
Retail Price (USD):
Package sizes include:
8-oz. Bottle
1-Quart Bottle
30-Gallon Drum
55-Gallon Drum
Warranty MSDS Data Sheet
Specifically designed for outboard motors, Outboard 100:1 Pre-Mix Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil contains a heavy dose of low-temperature dispersant additives that excel at reducing varnish and carbon deposit formation in water-cooled motors. Its low-smoke, low-odor, low-toxicity properties produce fewer emissions at 100:1 mix ratios than oils mixed at 50:1, benefitting operators and the environment. Outboard Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil is formulated to prevent "oil loading" and plug fouling for rapid throttle response, making it ideal for trolling motors. Recommended for pre-mix use where TC-W3 is specified.
AMSOIL Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil has been providing improved performance and protection in two-stroke engines since 1973. Trust the extensive experience of AMSOIL, The First in Synthetics®, to do the best job protecting your engine.
Engine Protection
Outboard Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil provides premium protection and performance at 100:1 mix ratios. It is formulated for hot-operating two-stroke outboard motors, effectively fighting carbon/deposit formation and preventing ring sticking.
Smokeless Operation
Outboard Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil's synthetic formulation burns clean. When mixed at 100:1, smoke is virtually undetectable. Boaters subjected to smoke and fumes benefit from these low-emission properties.
Excellent lubricity and cleanliness properties
Controls friction and helps prevent wear, plug fouling, ring sticking and exhaust port blocking
Improves throttle response
Lowers or eliminates smoke
Delivers outstanding protection and performance at lean mix ratios
Anti-rust formulation counteracts the damp environments often encountered in outboard applications
Applications
Outboard Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil is specifically designed for pre-mix water-cooled two-stroke outboard motors, personal watercraft and jet boats.
Outboard Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil is recommended for 100:1 mix ratios in normal service. Richer mix ratios may be used where desired, although certain benefits such as reduced smoke and deposits may be compromised.
RATIO OIL FUEL
32:1 4.0 oz. 1 US GAL
40:1 3.2 oz. 1 US GAL
50:1 2.6 oz. 1 US GAL
80:1 1.6 oz. 1 US GAL
100:1 1.3 oz. 1 US GAL
AMSOIL PRODUCT WARRANTY
AMSOIL products are backed by a Limited Liability Warranty. For complete information visit www.amsoil.com/warranty.aspx.
HEALTH & SAFETY
This product is not expected to cause health concerns when used for the intended application and according to the recommendations in the Safety Data Sheet (SDS). An SDS is available online at www.amsoil.com or upon request at (715) 392-7101. Keep Out of Reach of Children.
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
Saber Outboard Synthetic 100:1 Pre-Mix 2-Cycle Oil (ATO)
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D445)
17.9
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D445)
141.2
Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270)
141
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D97)
-33 (-27)
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D92)
120 (248)
Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D92)
138 (280)
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Has this thread seriously ended. Now what am I gonna do until first ice?
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Start a "What's the best flasher?" Thread. That should keep ya busy until April. ;D ;)
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I think someone's getting antsy to get ice fishing! Let's see... likes the oil uses it in a lot of things but is upset by the companies claims. I sure hope life gets better for you brother lol. Life's to short to be worried about what a bottle of oil says...
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Start a "What's the best flasher?" Thread. That should keep ya busy until April. ;D ;)
Or boots---or augers---or shacks---or ....... ;)2 :whistle: :icefish:
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This thread is to complicated for a man from the Maritime Provinces. :P
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Or boots---or augers---or shacks---or ....... ;)2 :whistle: :icefish:
The list is long. ;)
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I don't know; but I think it's worthless to have a gps module built into a fish-finder - for ice-fishing that is. :woot: :roflmao: :icefish:
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Start a "What's the best flasher?" Thread. That should keep ya busy until April. ;D ;)
Umm that would be Marcum, by a mile! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
I just couldn't resist, eh. ;)
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Why did I know that was coming? :o ;D ;D ;D
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(http://i59.tinypic.com/330s5r4.jpg)