Author Topic: Northerns losing teeth.  (Read 30092 times)

Offline MrMarty51

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Northerns losing teeth.
« on: Dec 30, 2007, 09:16 AM »
After talking with my son Darkhousefisher,He told Me that the northerns losing their teeth{I mean all of them,not even enough to scar up a minnow} could be to low levels of mercury in the water.He checked with Montana F&G and they told Him that the fish in the pond where we fish had this but are safe to eat.He also said that mercury causes humans to lose their teeth.Any comments on this would be appreciated. :-\

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Offline stumper

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #1 on: Dec 30, 2007, 09:19 AM »
LOL. they will grow back in the spring ;) Its a winter thing.

Offline elmerross

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #2 on: Dec 30, 2007, 09:21 AM »
My brothers wife caught a pike on conesus this spring and that was missing alot of teeth.I think they lose them from stress from spawning......

Offline Lobes

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #3 on: Dec 30, 2007, 09:27 AM »
I think it would help if they would start flossing after every meal!

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Offline MrMarty51

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #4 on: Dec 30, 2007, 09:28 AM »
My brothers wife caught a pike on conesus this spring and that was missing alot of teeth.I think they lose them from stress from spawning......
Thats nice to know,that there will be more northerns in the future.LOL ;D

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Offline bassranger

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #5 on: Dec 30, 2007, 09:55 AM »
 pike loss there teeth every year the moon phase dictates when they lose them supposedly they lose them when there's a new moon and  they are soft when they come in so the fish don't feed as much they are at there sharpest when its a full moon that's why people say the pike bite is best during a full moon. all though not all pike lose there teeth at the same time.
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Offline 1TIGGER

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #6 on: Dec 30, 2007, 10:03 AM »
Don't pike loss there teeth every year
[/quote
This question comes up every year so I just spent about a half hour trying to shed a little light on this reading several articles about their tooth loss .
It seems that nobody can give a scientific answer but they all say that they do in fact loose their teeth but not on any time schedule or for  any particular reason . Only that they all go through a regular tooth loss much like a shark will .

I seen the one elmerross is referring to and that fish was nearly toothless , If I remember correctly it only had about 5-6 teeth .

Offline bassranger

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #7 on: Dec 30, 2007, 10:08 AM »
I belive they shed there teeth and grow new ones because there teeth take alot of abuse this gives them a sharp new set
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Offline deadsmelthead

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #8 on: Dec 30, 2007, 10:16 AM »
To put it lamans terms each individal fish looses their teeth from time, time, its' not every fish in the lake at certain time of the year. I  caught Pike once with a lot of teeth missing but all the other pike caught that day had thiers.I would think it probably has somthing to do with overall body growth, happening in short period of time along with what bassranger said.
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Offline bigredonice

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #9 on: Dec 30, 2007, 10:26 AM »
To put it lamans terms each individual fish looses their teeth from time, time, its' not every fish in the lake at certain time of the year. I  caught Pike once with a lot of teeth missing but all the other pike caught that day had theirs.I would think it probably has somthing to do with overall body growth, happening in short period of time along with what bassranger said.

thank you.  I think the myth will continue forever though, that pike get sore mouths or loose teeth every spring/summer/fall/winter/spawning season/warm weather/cold water.

Offline shawner

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #10 on: Dec 30, 2007, 11:26 AM »


     Yeah, this is a topic that pops up every year. It was explained to me by my fisheries professor(PhD). It has to do with(they believe) the conditions of winter and stress. Their metabolism seems to divert their energy away from tooth growth and replacement to deal with the period before ice, during and just after. Their replacement teeth are kinda unique in the sense that they are not attached to their jaws but, rather float above the jaw in a pocket, the topic is in the archives if your interested.

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #11 on: Dec 30, 2007, 11:53 AM »
Whoever is catching "toothless" pike, look again. Pike do lose teeth but replace them on a regular basis, and ALWAYS have a set of teeth for feeding. Think about it, pike are predators, they need teeth in order to eat! This is just some stupid Canadian myth. Scientists call this an angler's excuse for not catching fish. As far as the mercury comment, that doesn't even make any sense. Montana Fish and Game would not say that pike contaminated with enough mercury to cause tooth loss in a fish are safe for eating. Ever wonder why you always hear all this talk of "toothless" pike, yet no pictures exist? It's because "toothless" pike do not exist.


Offline the_mad_iceman

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #12 on: Dec 30, 2007, 01:00 PM »
This is one for Mythbusters!

Offline eyedoktr

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #13 on: Dec 30, 2007, 01:14 PM »
Whoever is catching "toothless" pike, look again. Pike do lose teeth but replace them on a regular basis, and ALWAYS have a set of teeth for feeding. Think about it, pike are predators, they need teeth in order to eat!  Ever wonder why you always hear all this talk of "toothless" pike, yet no pictures exist? It's because "toothless" pike do not exist.



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Offline MrMarty51

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #14 on: Dec 30, 2007, 01:17 PM »
Whoever is catching "toothless" pike, look again. Pike do lose teeth but replace them on a regular basis, and ALWAYS have a set of teeth for feeding. Think about it, pike are predators, they need teeth in order to eat! This is just some stupid Canadian myth. Scientists call this an angler's excuse for not catching fish. As far as the mercury comment, that doesn't even make any sense. Montana Fish and Game would not say that pike contaminated with enough mercury to cause tooth loss in a fish are safe for eating. Ever wonder why you always hear all this talk of "toothless" pike, yet no pictures exist? It's because "toothless" pike do not exist.
I guess then that a minnow being mauled around 7 times by at least 3 different pike and coming out without any tooth marks on it is one maby You could explain.watched it down through the spearing  hole.Pike comes in hot and grabs the minnow munches it a few times,spits it out,I haul it up and not a tooth mark on it.not once but at least three different fish on 7 different occasions.On the upside,I had to use only one minnow all day.  :icefish:

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Offline 1TIGGER

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #15 on: Dec 30, 2007, 02:43 PM »
Whoever is catching "toothless" pike, look again. Pike do lose teeth but replace them on a regular basis, and ALWAYS have a set of teeth for feeding. Think about it, pike are predators, they need teeth in order to eat! This is just some stupid Canadian myth. Scientists call this an angler's excuse for not catching fish. As far as the mercury comment, that doesn't even make any sense. Montana Fish and Game would not say that pike contaminated with enough mercury to cause tooth loss in a fish are safe for eating. Ever wonder why you always hear all this talk of "toothless" pike, yet no pictures exist? It's because "toothless" pike do not exist.


If you're questioning the one Elmerross mentioned , The fish truly had about 5-6 teeth nothing more , nothing buried in the gum tissue or laid back like you would typically find .
I personally mounted the fish for his sister in law and I can tell you first hand I have NEVER seen a pike with no replacement teeth like this one was .

Offline Chainsaw

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #16 on: Dec 30, 2007, 03:06 PM »
If you're questioning the one Elmerross mentioned , The fish truly had about 5-6 teeth nothing more , nothing buried in the gum tissue or laid back like you would typically find .
I personally mounted the fish for his sister in law and I can tell you first hand I have NEVER seen a pike with no replacement teeth like this one was .


GingiPikeis. They catch it from Humans crazy enough to put their hand down the hole to ice one. The Pike is released or lost at the hole and their gumline goes bad from biting a Human and being tainted with Gingivitis bacterium, so they develope GingiPikeis. ;D
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Offline deadsmelthead

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #17 on: Dec 30, 2007, 03:33 PM »

GingiPikeis. They catch it from Humans crazy enough to put their hand down the hole to ice one. The Pike is released or lost at the hole and their gumline goes bad from biting a Human and being tainted with Gingivitis bacterium, so they develope GingiPikeis. ;D

Chainsaw hit the nail on the head, I read about it in a magazine, that and it went on to say how some pike can't afford dental coverage and get the tooth replacement shot, they tend to be the Pike that are always first in line when the beer ferry arives.
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Offline Lobes

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #18 on: Dec 30, 2007, 05:08 PM »
Chainsaw hit the nail on the head, I read about it in a magazine, that and it went on to say how some pike can't afford dental coverage and get the tooth replacement shot, they tend to be the Pike that are always first in line when the beer ferry arives.

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Offline Ice_Stalker

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #19 on: Dec 30, 2007, 05:41 PM »
^This means nothing.  I have seen Pike/ Muskies on camera and in person grab baits and not leave a mark.  Some even grabbed baits without tipping a flag.  They can be quite soft-mouthed when striking.  They do not lose their teeth.
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Offline 1TIGGER

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #20 on: Dec 30, 2007, 05:52 PM »
^This means nothing.  I have seen Pike/ Muskies on camera and in person grab baits and not leave a mark.  Some even grabbed baits without tipping a flag.  They can be quite soft-mouthed when striking.  They do not lose their teeth.
They do loose teeth but it is a shedding process much like a shark and for no other reason !

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Offline PeteTown

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #21 on: Dec 30, 2007, 06:37 PM »
maybe in the us here in canada iv never seen a toothless pike prolly sumting in ur neuclear runoff

Offline shawner

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #22 on: Dec 30, 2007, 06:57 PM »


    I don't remember what I wrote the last time. Probably something along this line and I'm not a PhD, more like an intelligent redneck probably but, alright, I'll stir the pot a little, I have two that are frozen at the FLCC campus as examples for the purpose of this topic to help lend a little credence. The main part of this myth/fact, however you view it, is that there is all or most of the teeth lost. What we/I have found is that it is more a partial loss. I caught a couple last year out of Conesus that had tooth loss, because they are predators and curious? Not in whole maybe, there's other things that can account for tooth loss, being caught and released could play a factor along with competition for some examples. The otherside is diet and metabolism which both slow in ice covered regions along with competition and forage base can effect the regeneration and replacement rates depending on all of these factors and some more. If you caught one that had more than partial tooth loss, it could be having a rough year(stress) or it may have to much competition and not enough forage or early VHS for that matter weakening it. If it is genetic, that haven't lent any fact to that yet but, it is theoretically part of their survival strategy which are genetically based. If you've never caught one that shows enough tooth loss to notice its hard to believe but, a lot of pike especially in our region, show noticeable tooth loss in the winter months the time when all the negative factors are at their greatest influence. That, I believe, is sound thought. Also, the teeth that are being regenerated do sit in a pocket just above the gum line, I've seen it at the college with the proffessor there showing me and transparent images like x-rays. Apparently, there has to be tooth loss for regeneration and that may be a way to divert energy more efficiently. Remember nature is both simple and complex at the same time and the further you look in to it the more complex it can be come. The bottom line is that all of this still doesn't say one way or the other which is the factor but, makes more sense of the situation when the variables make sense. with that said, it is possable that pike loose teeth to natural environment factors or as a part of a genetic survival strategy or both. There are examples to see and if I catch one with a good example of this I'll hopefully remember to take a pic and post it. By the way, the one pike that's frozen was 11lbs when I caught it and brought it in in the morning. By the end of the day word had gotten around and I saw one of the guys I new and he congratulated me on my now significantly larger catch like 17 or 21lbs I don't remember. Shows how myths and stories get started. I know, go ahead, you gotta. Time for a High life and praying to the ice gods for the next weekend :tipup: :tipup:

Offline Hood

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #23 on: Dec 30, 2007, 07:31 PM »
Wheres the wing flutterin, honey pottin, wand stroking tooth fairy when ya need her....

She would know....all this banter...stick your finger in there if your so worried about the state of their teeth...(the pike)

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Offline eyedoktr

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #24 on: Dec 30, 2007, 07:55 PM »
Maybe all these pike with no teeth were 315ers.   :P
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Offline JCaughtem

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #25 on: Dec 30, 2007, 08:05 PM »
After talking with my son Darkhousefisher,He told Me that the northerns losing their teeth{I mean all of them,not even enough to scar up a minnow} could be to low levels of mercury in the water.He checked with Montana F&G and they told Him that the fish in the pond where we fish had this but are safe to eat.He also said that mercury causes humans to lose their teeth.Any comments on this would be appreciated. :-\
They dont shed teeth the lose them durind feeding.


Offline wnybassman

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #26 on: Dec 30, 2007, 08:20 PM »
Maybe all these pike with no teeth were 315ers.   :P

Maybe walleye are secretly stealing them while the pike are sleeping.  Walleye don't like to put up much of a fight you know    ;)
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Offline taxi1

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #27 on: Dec 30, 2007, 08:29 PM »
All I know is they have other teeth ready to come in laying in a fleshy area just in side and below the teeth. As a taxidermist I remove this chunk of flesh, which is why I know. I would guess they break them off periodically and replace the broken ones. Nothing unusual about that
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Offline MrMarty51

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #28 on: Dec 30, 2007, 09:16 PM »

    I don't remember what I wrote the last time. Probably something along this line and I'm not a PhD, more like an intelligent redneck probably but, alright, I'll stir the pot a little, I have two that are frozen at the FLCC campus as examples for the purpose of this topic to help lend a little credence. The main part of this myth/fact, however you view it, is that there is all or most of the teeth lost. What we/I have found is that it is more a partial loss. I caught a couple last year out of Conesus that had tooth loss, because they are predators and curious? Not in whole maybe, there's other things that can account for tooth loss, being caught and released could play a factor along with competition for some examples. The otherside is diet and metabolism which both slow in ice covered regions along with competition and forage base can effect the regeneration and replacement rates depending on all of these factors and some more. If you caught one that had more than partial tooth loss, it could be having a rough year(stress) or it may have to much competition and not enough forage or early VHS for that matter weakening it. If it is genetic, that haven't lent any fact to that yet but, it is theoretically part of their survival strategy which are genetically based. If you've never caught one that shows enough tooth loss to notice its hard to believe but, a lot of pike especially in our region, show noticeable tooth loss in the winter months the time when all the negative factors are at their greatest influence. That, I believe, is sound thought. Also, the teeth that are being regenerated do sit in a pocket just above the gum line, I've seen it at the college with the proffessor there showing me and transparent images like x-rays. Apparently, there has to be tooth loss for regeneration and that may be a way to divert energy more efficiently. Remember nature is both simple and complex at the same time and the further you look in to it the more complex it can be come. The bottom line is that all of this still doesn't say one way or the other which is the factor but, makes more sense of the situation when the variables make sense. with that said, it is possable that pike loose teeth to natural environment factors or as a part of a genetic survival strategy or both. There are examples to see and if I catch one with a good example of this I'll hopefully remember to take a pic and post it. By the way, the one pike that's frozen was 11lbs when I caught it and brought it in in the morning. By the end of the day word had gotten around and I saw one of the guys I new and he congratulated me on my now significantly larger catch like 17 or 21lbs I don't remember. Shows how myths and stories get started. I know, go ahead, you gotta. Time for a High life and praying to the ice gods for the next weekend :tipup: :tipup:
Thanks Shawner.You have done Your homework and yes When I catch one of these toothless ones I will get a pic. and post it. :)

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Offline deerslayer92163

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Re: Northerns losing teeth.
« Reply #29 on: Dec 30, 2007, 10:10 PM »
does this mean we should start useing mashed tater balls for bait

 



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