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Author Topic: Keeping Smelts Alive  (Read 4565 times)

Offline MooseBrook

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Keeping Smelts Alive
« on: Jan 22, 2020, 10:58 AM »
Hello All,

I know there are a lot of posts about this on the forum and I have read through most all of them but wanted to ask a couple more questions and see if anyone has similar problems. I have been dabbling with keeping live lake smelts this winter that I've been hook and lining. I started with 4 dozen in a 30 gallon tote in my basement with a double outlet aquarium aerator with two 8" bubblers as well as a 30-60 gallon aquarium filter (over the back-waterfall type). My basement stays fairly cool and I've been keeping 1 gallon frozen jugs in the water all the time to keep the water about 40 degrees. I have also been using a piece of blue board insulation as a cover on the top. I have well water and I change out about 5-6 gallons/day. I have been having good luck them so far only losing about 5 in a week. I went fishing this past weekend and used up 1.5 dozen and then caught 2 dozen more on Sunday to replenish my tank. I had to go away Monday night and when I got back yesterday evening I had lost about half of them. I also noticed a lot of foam on the top of the water which hadn't really been a problem for the past week. I'm wondering if keeping a cover on the tank isn't letting the ammonia release from the water? Should I be treating the water with something? Also after putting some fresh smelts into the tank with the ones I had kept for a week I noticed a huge color difference. Anyone have any tips for keeping their color? Any help would be appreciated.

Offline MarkNFish

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #1 on: Jan 22, 2020, 02:13 PM »
My guess is the cover might be the problem.  I've always been told to not cover the tank.  Otherwise it sounds like you're doing everything right. 

Yes, they will lose their color - particularly in a light-colored tank.  The fresh ones I add are always much darker, but I don't think that hurts anything. 

Keeping little fish alive is almost a full-time job ;D

Offline MooseBrook

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #2 on: Jan 22, 2020, 06:39 PM »
It really is. I’ve removed the cover and have to keep the water level down some so they don’t jump out. I also picked up some aquarium gravel for the bottom of the tank to hopefully help colonize some bacteria. Beginning to wonder if I should just spend all this money buying bait...

Offline jacksmelt71

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #3 on: Jan 22, 2020, 08:36 PM »
definite don't cover them! a little ice isn't a bad thing better too cold than too warm with smelt. i ve had 10 doz. med smelt in my tank in the garage since mid dec. used 5 doz fishing still have 3 doz. i spend more time banging ice off the side of the tank but the smelt like it cold . also bigger is better. they like a lot of room. my tank holds fifty gal.

Offline tipman14

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #4 on: Jan 22, 2020, 08:48 PM »
I have tried keeping bait in the past but it really can be a lot of work until you get a hang of it . I just have found I have to many good bait shops around me doing what I really don’t have time for and to me time is money. If you don’t have much availability of bait or you enjoy it as a hobby I would say it’s worth considering doing. But on the other hand I just bought 8 dozen smelts today and came to $82  :o lol
I’m here for the cusk !!!!

Offline MooseBrook

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #5 on: Jan 23, 2020, 04:42 AM »
Yeah the reason I’ve started procuring my own bait is that not only are pin smelts $11-12/ dozen in my area but usually after January the shops stop carrying them. There are a few stores around that carry shiners but can’t keep smelts alive so they don’t even bother with them. The closest smelts to me are about a half hour away and in the wrong direction from where I normally fish. I appreciate the advice from everyone and I removed the cover on Tuesday night and haven’t lost any since. I keep the ice in the tank because I keep my tank in the basement and it’s about 60-65 down there. My well water is very cold and with the ice it keeps the temp where I want it. I’ve been keeping my eye out for an old freezer that someone would give away that would work good for a bait holder.

Offline The Rusty Crab

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #6 on: Jan 23, 2020, 05:52 AM »
A functional freezer with a timer works great. Smelt don't like warm. The foam is from the dead fish. Faom means dirty water. A cup of salt without iodine can help as well.

Offline nightrider

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #7 on: Jan 23, 2020, 06:01 PM »
Moosebrook, I have a freezer you can have, its all set up and ready for bait. I used it for a few years but got to old to be tending bait as I don't go ice fishing as much now. I will give it to you and there is a few extra's you can have with it. pm me and I will give you my contact #

Offline mikez

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #8 on: Jan 23, 2020, 06:30 PM »
I have no experience with smelt but foam is a good indication of ammonia build up. My guess is the water was at least a little smelly?
Most likely you are over crowding while not doing enough water changes. Especially if you're dumping skanky bucket water in your tote when you get back from the lake.
Even though you have a filter, you still need to do water changes. Even a really well seasoned, well functioning filter does not work really well in cold water. Over crowding will make that worse.
Do water changes, just be sure you let the new water equal the temperature in the tote.
Don't worry about the cover unless it's sealed up air tight with no air space over the water. You're filter is no way so effective that gaseous ammonia is collecting under the cover. Actually it doesn't even work that way, the ammonia has to be converted into nitrite, than into nitrate before it's offgassed as nitrogen. The cover isn't the issue.

Offline woodchip

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #9 on: Jan 23, 2020, 06:40 PM »
 mikez Thank you for such  good  instructions .  You have help a lot of bait tanks

Offline MooseBrook

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #10 on: Jan 24, 2020, 04:39 AM »
I’ve also noticed that the ones that are dying have a rust color around their gills and fins. Anyone have any idea what causes that? Fungus?

Offline MarkNFish

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #11 on: Jan 24, 2020, 06:13 AM »
water level down some so they don’t jump out

I put a screen over mine.  Air can get out, fish can't. 

Offline nbourque

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #12 on: Jan 24, 2020, 10:29 AM »
So to piggyback on this question...if I’m keeping a couple dozen smelts alive overnight in a bucket is it best to keep the lid off or on?

Offline Deadbait

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #13 on: Jan 24, 2020, 10:37 AM »
try using a water conditioner like G-Juice.

Offline mikez

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #14 on: Jan 24, 2020, 10:53 AM »
I’ve also noticed that the ones that are dying have a rust color around their gills and fins. Anyone have any idea what causes that? Fungus?
Sounds like bacterial infection.
Might be worth removing any that show it and picking up the pace of the water changes.

Offline mikez

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #15 on: Jan 24, 2020, 11:00 AM »
So to piggyback on this question...if I’m keeping a couple dozen smelts alive overnight in a bucket is it best to keep the lid off or on?
The lid doesn't matter. Got nothing to do with it.
If that were the case we who keep aquariums wouldn't spend so much money on filters, we'd just leave the lids off. ::)


Offline nbourque

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #16 on: Jan 24, 2020, 11:08 AM »
The lid doesn't matter. Got nothing to do with it.
If that were the case we who keep aquariums wouldn't spend so much money on filters, we'd just leave the lids off. ::)
Haha good point

Offline mikez

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #17 on: Jan 24, 2020, 11:50 AM »
There's a crapton of good info online for aquarium keepers you guys should look into. I don't want to make this an argument because I know the cover thing is something alot of guys here believe in.

Basically if you're worried about air exchange use even the smallest cheapest pet store air pump and air stone. Then no matter how tight your lid, the bubbles break the surface. The bubbles breaking the surface is what it's all about. You can't seal your lid against air because the brings new air in and that escapes out of the bucket.

I've been keeping aquarium for 50 years. My biggest complaint is losing water to evaporation. I've been trying most of that time to come up with even tighter fitting covers to prevent evaporation.

I once drove home from Florida, 25 hours straight thru, with a cooler in my trunk full of live fish. I had the lid on tight to prevent splashing with a bunch of stuff piled on top. I 100% live fish when I got home.

Don't overcrowd, use an air stone, do water changes. Do those things and your cover don't matter.

Offline MooseBrook

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #18 on: Jan 24, 2020, 12:25 PM »
Do you have a rule of thumb for fish/gallon or something along those lines? I realize the more water the better but is there a carrying capacity you have found to work well? I have a good place to catch plenty but I hate just wasting them because I cant keep them alive. At this point I don't have any means increase my water capacity.

Offline jfisherman

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #19 on: Jan 26, 2020, 06:54 PM »
Last year I rented a camp for a month, no smelts in the area. I bought the biggest cooler i could find maybe 110 quarts or something do not know for sure on size. But i kept 15 dozen smelts alive for 3 weeks an did not lose many. I had a big aerator zone at the bottom of the cooler two aerators with the stones on top An would take 10 gallons of water out of it every other day an replace with fresh well water or lake water. If you want to b more lazy than the key would b too set up a filter system that cleans the water still have too clean u fillers every few days change carbon every so often.

Offline MooseBrook

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #20 on: Jan 27, 2020, 05:33 AM »
I have stepped up my water changes to around 2/3 of the tank per day. Whenever I get new ones from the lake I put them in new water and try to change it in a few hours after I put them in and then again the next morning. I am having better luck this way. I've only been losing 1 every couple days or so.

Offline MooseBrook

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #21 on: Jan 11, 2021, 05:07 PM »
New year, new bait tank setup, same issues. I converted a chest freezer to a bait tank so that I could increase my water capacity as well as control the temperature. I now have about 60 gallons of water in the freezer that is controlled by an inkbird outlet thermostat set at 36 degrees. I have a large aquarium waterfall type filter setup as well as a dual outlet air pump pumping air through two 12” bubbler stones. I filled the tank and got it down to temperature and put in the first 8 smelts I had caught the day I put my shack out. They all died within a couple days. I keep putting in more and they are dying at a rate of about 3-4/day. I have well water but I still use some aquarium water treatment at the water changes. Does anybody have any ideas what my issues might be? Could my well water just be that bad that it’s killing them? Is there something else I should be adding to the water?

Offline 413iceman

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #22 on: Jan 11, 2021, 05:53 PM »
This is an awesome conversation. Another question. I have well water but the water is hard so we have a water softener machine that uses salt. Would that water be ok still for bait?

Offline darby74

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #23 on: Jan 11, 2021, 06:57 PM »
So to piggyback on this question...if I’m keeping a couple dozen smelts alive overnight in a bucket is it best to keep the lid off or on?
On all of my ice fishing trips, plus Rangeley in the spring, I keep 5 dozen smelts in a bait bag (roughly 4 gallons of water) and daily open the bag, and inject oxygen like at most bait dealers.  We lose hardly any smelts.  We change the water every 4 days.  My big trips we will have e 30 dozen smelts. Keeping them in a cooler and cold is ultra important.Small oxygen tank with a hose was the best investment I made for bait.   Haven't used an aerator in 5 years.  Also, we keep the bait bags in black garbage bags so they don't lose their color

Offline jacksmelt71

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #24 on: Jan 11, 2021, 07:33 PM »
New year, new bait tank setup, same issues. I converted a chest freezer to a bait tank so that I could increase my water capacity as well as control the temperature. I now have about 60 gallons of water in the freezer that is controlled by an inkbird outlet thermostat set at 36 degrees. I have a large aquarium waterfall type filter setup as well as a dual outlet air pump pumping air through two 12” bubbler stones. I filled the tank and got it down to temperature and put in the first 8 smelts I had caught the day I put my shack out. They all died within a couple days. I keep putting in more and they are dying at a rate of about 3-4/day. I have well water but I still use some aquarium water treatment at the water changes. Does anybody have any ideas what my issues might be? Could my well water just be that bad that it’s killing them? Is there something else I should be adding to the water?
  is your tank still in the cellar? if it is, your better to move it into a unheated garage.  it takes awhile for it to start freezing in a old freezer due to the insulation. i do the opposite of you. when it gets really cold and froze i put a small pond heater in there for 4-5r hrs. until the tank thaws out. then its good for 3-4 days until it starts to freeze up again. my pump is on the bottom of the tank and is piped into a hanging 5 gal bucket with bio balls and large gravel with a 3 gal bucket sitting on top of that filled with pillow stuffing. change out the stuffing as it gets dirty.  been keeping smelts alive for 20+ years in there and rarely lose any smelts. i use sure life better bait in the water that i buy thru bass pro. keeps the fungus controlled. other than adding smelts and lake water, i dont need to change out any water until spring, when it warms up in there. ive had smelts alive sometimes until early may if spring is fairly cool. i also keep other minnows in there in the summer so it usually runs year round unless a disease kills them. then i disinfect and start again. i have a t on the piping with a 20ft section on a valve so i can turn the valve and the pump drains most of the tank for me out the back window. ;) very easy to set up.

Offline MarkNFish

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #25 on: Jan 12, 2021, 08:24 AM »
Maybe it's the temperature, but if you're keeping them at 36 degrees that should work.  I keep mine in a corner of a heated shop that I keep at 40 degrees and haven't had a problem.  Your set-up is more advanced than mine.  I just put a couple of aeration stones in a big cooler and change about 1/2 the water every few days.  I use well water from the tap and I don't add anything to it and I do have a water softener.  I am going to set up a filter system so I won't have to change the water as often.

By the way, did we talk on the phone about this when you were looking for a freezer earlier this year ???

Offline MooseBrook

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #26 on: Jan 12, 2021, 09:49 AM »
I think you had DM’d me but you were a long ways away from me. I ended up picking up an upright freezer for my food and converted my chest freezer to a bait tank. I can’t see temp being the issue since the freezer is keeping the water at 36-38 degrees per the thermostat. My water now does go through a softener and last winter I was using water from before the softener so I wonder if that is part of the problem? My well water comes out at about 40-42 degrees so I wouldn’t think that mixing that with my 36-38 degree tank water would cause a shock. I just ordered some better bait and I’ll try bypassing my softener and using straight well water.

Offline eiderz

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #27 on: Jan 12, 2021, 10:16 AM »
I don't have a tank for smelt in ME, I usually buy them, keep them in aerated buckets, and use them in a week or less. In CT I keep shiners in a small tank filled with well water. What I found is if you put water in a pail and aerate it for a day or so before putting it in with the bait, the bait lives longer. Pretty sure it's because the water coming out of the well typically has low DO, it needs a little while to get to saturation.

Also what darby said, I'm really impressed with how well smelt keep if you have an O2 tank and dose the water. I don't have one but have seen it work, like a miracle. I started using Finer Shiner when they're in the bucket, it seems to help too.

Offline sab

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #28 on: Jan 12, 2021, 12:18 PM »
Any differences for shiners vs smelts?   
Sure-fine.com has a lot live bait products.  Wonder if there's a difference between better bait and finer shiner, and there's product to address foam.  I think go with finer shiner.  Recently bought a 120 quart cooler to keep in the unheated garage ($45 Ebay Colman Marine extreme cooler.)   The cooler is cheaper then the smaller coolers, but the bigger the cooler the more work.  I thought the aquarium rule of thumb was 1 gallon/per fish.  Similar to what JackSmelt71 said I think the answer is an external filter box drilled though the top of the cooler.  This would include holes for aeration.  I read somewhere that bait fish need a current to fish against (for oxygen?).   My reason for all this bait storage is that bait suppliers are not only getting more expensive but fewer and fewer and farther and farther away. Previously I just keep shiners in 5 gallon buckets with aeration

Offline darby74

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Re: Keeping Smelts Alive
« Reply #29 on: Jan 12, 2021, 12:56 PM »
I had 2 dozen shiners in a bag blown up all last week sitting in a cooler outside. Half the water was frozen, hadn't touched them, and all but 3 were alive.  Smelts would have all been dead Tuesday.  My bait guy did say to quarantine any new smelts for a few days before adding them to a batch already "seasoned)

 



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