Sabattus and more declined heavily

[icetwandrer]

Checked out sabattus for the day, it's been a few years and I've heard it's declined but it's really bad now, I just don't understand that if a pond is known for a certain specie and it's brings revenue to local bait shops and the state, why do we because someone says so insist on killing every fish that comes top side, I released a couple small pike in front of a local and he just about ripped my head off for it, said he kills 100's out of there every year just for fun because they don't belong, I get it , pike suck in certain waters but there here and there fun as hell in the right water, our biologist need to educate (us and themselves) a little better  and not just say there's no limit so kill everything , and it's not just sabattus it's alot of waters in our state that are going to hell for the wrong reasons ,    tightlines.

[Anomaly]

Checked out sabattus for the day, it's been a few years and I've heard it's declined but it's really bad now, I just don't understand that if a pond is known for a certain specie and it's brings revenue to local bait shops and the state, why do we because someone says so insist on killing every fish that comes top side, I released a couple small pike in front of a local and he just about ripped my head off for it, said he kills 100's out of there every year just for fun because they don't belong, I get it , pike suck in certain waters but there here and there fun as hell in the right water, our biologist need to educate (us and themselves) a little better  and not just say there's no limit so kill everything , and it's not just sabattus it's alot of waters in our state that are going to hell for the wrong reasons ,    tightlines.

I have to totally agree! People come form over 100 mile away to fish there. I DO think taking some fish is good for a healthy fishery and big fish, but not wanton slaughter for some kind of killing lust... The pike aren't going away. They free spawn in open weed beds without any kind of nest or bed. They are apex predators, too, that keep the pan fish in there big and healthy as well. It's an amazing fishery ~ A famous fishery and one that seriously feeds the local economy. I don't get it. Meanwhile, there are sooo many lakes and ponds that do not support cold water species/salmonids. There is a place here for species like pike. I don't fish them as I guess I caught som many as a kid along with bass... But they are a worthy game fish, worthy of some respect and, dare I say, management...even if voluntary like catch and release.

[nbourque]

Sabattus is an absolute joke. Most of the ppl who fish there aren’t too bright either. Once the state takes the blinders off their eyes maybe they’ll manage some of these pike waters into trophy fisheries. Prob won’t happen in my lifetime though.

[Outdoorsman70]

I agree 100% more and more lakes and ponds are going down hill the state needs to really take notice and listen to sportsmen the people that actually see whats going on .

[Jim_C.]

There are MANY reasons why the fisheries are going downhill in Maine.  Too much land clearing and development in the wrong places, lack of political will to enforce laws, tons of sediment in run-off, oil spills all over the place (I cleaned them up for 25 years), low $ for fisheries management and the wrong focus for what money there is, etc., etc.  The pike mania gave people something to demonize and blame, taking the easy way out rather than facing reality. 

[sab]

I'm not familiar with fisheries other then what this forum and Maine Wildlife tells me but I do contribute to LEA (Lakes Environmental Association) a couple of times a year and get a nice sticker (newsletter)  for my truck. I know LEA is for Sebago area and is not a Maine lake silver bullet.  Yes I've fished hard and liquid Sabattus in the past. 
https://mainelakes.org/

Suggest criticism also suggest a solution.

[Fish Wayniac]

It sounds like many factors are a decline to the Pike fishing. That kill the Pike mentality isn’t helping. They don’t get bigger if more don’t get released. I’m sure the social media sites don’t help. It’s no secret about Sabattus though. 🥶

[Brian VT]

Is the State's intention to eradicate pike from Sabattus?
I haven't fished there yet (I moved to ME from VT 2 years ago) but I felt like they had resigned it to the pike and were promoting it as a good place to fish for pike. In VT that was mostly what I caught and I enjoyed catching and releasing them. I do understand that they will take over a pond but it seems they already have a hold on Sabattus so why not run with it?

[woodchip]

All fish in Sabattus should be realease  Because of high Mercury content.

[icetwandrer]

I just wish they( maine biologist) could just select and promote a  harvest program that doesn't promote a kill all mentality, if I  threw one clipped fin tank scrubber that I paid for to the eagles(which I would never do, just an example) I'd pay a hefty fine and lose a license,  but to let these meat heads just slaughter everything in site not really knowing what or why there doing it and how it's affecting that body of water there drinking I mean fishing on and get away with it just doesn't seem to make sense. Pike , togue, or whatever specie if it's a thriving trophy fisherie maybe we should try and sustain it, that would be an amazing concept

[nbourque]

The simple question to ask is why won’t the state manage pike as a gamefish? Canada and the Midwest do. The pike fishing in this state is very good. Just think if the state would manage it in places like Cobb sabattus and the Belgrade’s. The state doesn’t like to face reality when it comes to pike and other species. The pike are here to stay. Manage them as such in appropriate places. The state already screwed up the Belgrade’s 50 years ago when they dumped pike in there though you’ll never hear em admit it 😶

[Fish Wayniac]

Nick those are some good points.
I grew up fishing Pike on Lake Champlain. You are allowed 15 lines. People line up there traps in a straight line close together to head them off.
Pike are fun to catch but I haven’t targeted them for years.

[nbourque]

Nick those are some good points.
I grew up fishing Pike on Lake Champlain. You are allowed 15 lines. People line up there traps in a straight line close together to head them off.
Pike are fun to catch but I haven’t targeted them for years.

I’m not a big pike guy anymore. I like to fish em in March in April when they go shallow but it seems like such a waste of a fishery to not manage them. Pike give people the chance at a giant fish.

[Bourbon and Bass]

The simple question to ask is why won’t the state manage pike as a gamefish? Canada and the Midwest do. The pike fishing in this state is very good. Just think if the state would manage it in places like Cobb sabattus and the Belgrade’s. The state doesn’t like to face reality when it comes to pike and other species. The pike are here to stay. Manage them as such in appropriate places. The state already screwed up the Belgrade’s 50 years ago when they dumped pike in there though you’ll never hear em admit it 😶

How long did it take for them to actually start treating bass like a gamefish, if you know off the dome? As far as I know, there are under 10 waters managed as trophy lakes and they are all smallmouth waters (and most of them are down Clamfarmer's way). I'm pretty sure none of those were listed as such prior to the 90s, despite being stocked over 130 years prior. Maybe if we live to around 160 we'll see pike finally listed as a gamefish in Maine.

The state really needs to recognize that it has a great fishery where its established, but also needs to actually do something about bucket bios spreading them where they aren't currently. $20,000 is a big chunk of change, but the cost of a destroyed ecosystem should be reflected with an equal fine, not what I could buy a used Nitro z18 for.

[nbourque]

How long did it take for them to actually start treating bass like a gamefish, if you know off the dome? As far as I know, there are under 10 waters managed as trophy lakes and they are all smallmouth waters (and most of them are down Clamfarmer's way). I'm pretty sure none of those were listed as such prior to the 90s, despite being stocked over 130 years prior. Maybe if we live to around 160 we'll see pike finally listed as a gamefish in Maine.

The state really needs to recognize that it has a great fishery where its established, but also needs to actually do something about bucket bios spreading them where they aren't currently. $20,000 is a big chunk of change, but the cost of a destroyed ecosystem should be reflected with an equal fine, not what I could buy a used Nitro z18 for.

I agree 100%. In no way do I condone people spreading fish species around. The punishment should be tough but then again it’s pretty hard to catch someone in the act.

My problem with the state is how long it takes for them to react. Government at its finest.

[9huskies]

Most of these waters should have had a special rule requiring anglers to kill every pike or other invasive fish as soon as they were discovered. It wouldn't have completely removed them but it could have kept their population from exploding and harming existing fisheries. It's too late for places where there is an established breeding population but it can be used as a management tool as species are illegally relocated into new waters. It can still work in small ponds. When I started fishing Mount Blue Pond it was common to catch 100 six inch smallmouth bass in a half day and you would hardly ever catch a white perch or trout worth keeping. For 3 years 3 fishermen each took over 1,000 bass from that pond and the white perch made a substantial comeback. The trout took longer to recover. Also, we catch fewer bass but we catch more big bass. This was on a 134 acre pond. Achieving similar success on a 6,000 acre lake is far less likely.

[grub662]

We wouldn't have these problems if we locked out flatlanders from coming here 50 years ago.

[Linedogg104]

We wouldn't have these problems if we locked out flatlanders from coming here 50 years ago.

Yea that's it blame flatlanders. Great idea. It's always someone else's fault. That's half the problem. Plain old ignorance.

[Bourbon and Bass]

We wouldn't have these problems if we locked out flatlanders from coming here 50 years ago.

Uhh, the initial introductions of both bass and pike were initiated by DIFW (mostly staffed by "real" Mainers, oversaw by political appointees who were also from Maine). Pike was around 50 years ago now, bass was the 1860s for smallmouth and 1890s for largemouth, so 50 years don't mean shoot in that case. The crash of the giant Rangley brook trout and loss of the Rangley Bluebacks, DIFW too (by stocking Salmon and Smelt for the wealthy members of the lakes' sporting associations, who were a mixture of sports from away and locals with extra scratch). The togue glut at Sebago/crash of the salmon population? Why pickerel aren't only found in coastal adjacent waters (which prior to the late 1700's they were)? You get what I'm getting at now? The spread of these species (bass/pike) after those initial  introductions definitely does not fall solely at the hands of those "from away"; many Op Game Thief releases have proven its more likely to be a born and raised Mainer. While this might be a joke or a crappost just looking for a rise, let's focus on the issue at hand (Which is recognizing the fisheries we have and protecting them from further harm or change) and not blast some half-baked nativist  mindset. An A-hole is an A-hole, no matter where their mothers pushed them out at, and being a conservationist and good sportsman is also not tied to that.
Sincerely,
A Fourth Generational (both patrilineal and matrilineal) Mainer* **
*actually goes back further but there is some Canadian in there at that point on both sides. Nobodies perfect I guess.
**From Eastern and Northern Maine - Just getting in front of the eventual "south of Newport is just north Boston and not real Maine"

[Anomaly]

Well Said B&B! Meanwhile smelt are also knocking down whitefish populations. They disappeared in Sebago do to pollution and togue introduction by mainers... Mainers are trucking crappies around too. They are now from southern Maine to Lincoln and Medway, that I know of.

Uhh, the initial introductions of both bass and pike were initiated by DIFW (mostly staffed by "real" Mainers, oversaw by political appointees who were also from Maine). Pike was around 50 years ago now, bass was the 1860s for smallmouth and 1890s for largemouth, so 50 years don't mean shoot in that case. The crash of the giant Rangley brook trout and loss of the Rangley Bluebacks, DIFW too (by stocking Salmon and Smelt for the wealthy members of the lakes' sporting associations, who were a mixture of sports from away and locals with extra scratch). The togue glut at Sebago/crash of the salmon population? Why pickerel aren't only found in coastal adjacent waters (which prior to the late 1700's they were)? You get what I'm getting at now? The spread of these species (bass/pike) after those initial  introductions definitely does not fall solely at the hands of those "from away"; many Op Game Thief releases have proven its more likely to be a born and raised Mainer. While this might be a joke or a crappost just looking for a rise, let's focus on the issue at hand (Which is recognizing the fisheries we have and protecting them from further harm or change) and not blast some half-baked nativist  mindset. An A-hole is an A-hole, no matter where their mothers pushed them out at, and being a conservationist and good sportsman is also not tied to that.
Sincerely,
A Fourth Generational (both patrilineal and matrilineal) Mainer* **
*actually goes back further but there is some Canadian in there at that point on both sides. Nobodies perfect I guess.
**From Eastern and Northern Maine - Just getting in front of the eventual "south of Newport is just north Boston and not real Maine"

[Anomaly]

Yea that's it blame flatlanders. Great idea. It's always someone else's fault. That's half the problem. Plain old ignorance.

Yep! Here's your winner! haha!!

We wouldn't have these problems if we locked out flatlanders from coming here 50 years ago.

[Bourbon and Bass]

Well Said B&B! Meanwhile smelt are also knocking down whitefish populations. They disappeared in Sebago do to pollution and togue introduction by mainers... Mainers are trucking crappies around too. They are now from southern Maine to Lincoln and Medway, that I know of.

Exactly, and they sometimes can have unexpected consequences. My closest pond (about 100 Ac) has historically had a great LMB population (which were stocked by the state as there was only panfish, yellows, and pickerel in this 5 foot max deep pond that is the last in the area-besides sebago- to freeze and first to thaw due to how warm the water got and stayed. So no possibility of a trout fishery except a Put and Take browns). Starting a couple of years back we started noticing Crappie had been bucketed in. While bass will usually eat smaller crappies, this ended up coinciding with the size and quality of the bass taking a nose dive. The crappies could compete with the bass better than the perch and panfish could, and predated more heavily on the bass young and eggs. What regularly produced 6lb+ bass throughout the season dropped down to a couple of 4+ a year. Last year I put more time into breaking down the pond than I had in the past 10 years and only caught 1 5lber and barely any 2.5+ (a good, healthy bass). In that same time, I caught multiple 15"+ crappie on bass lures, including a 17" that ate a full sized spinnerbait with a 4.8" trailer. I also noticed the pickerel size has started to increase, where as I used to pull some smaller ones while fishing smaller (<4.8") swimbaits, spinnerbaits, and topwater, I caught more and larger ones while fishing my XL bass gear (8" Huddlestons, Magnum Shine Glides, 7-8" glidebaits). So even in waters where it doesn't mess with native salmonids, introductions can really mess with the established ecosystems.

Limit the spread, but make some lemonade out of where these fish are at already.

[Jack978]

There is no question things have changed in Maine fishing over the last 50 years.  Some good and some bad and some just different.  I've revisited some of the places I fished as a young man and got skunked.  I've also been to places that were running sewers (i.e. Kenduskeg stream) that are now recreation destinations.  I left Maine when I went in the Army in 1979 and returned full time in 2020 so there was a bit of a gap, but the point is there are still opportunities to experience good fishing in this state.  Take advantage of the opportunities that present themselves.   

As for flatlanders ruining the state, I've been accused of being one although my family lived here since the 1700's before Maine was Maine.  I was walking along the Penobscot last summer and talked to a fellow who eventually told me I should go back to where I came from since I didn't sound like I belonged here.  I pointed to EMC across the river and told him that's where I was born but I wasn't going back there since it would involve a bit of a swim.  I asked him where he was from, and he told me Brewer on Holyoake Street.  The irony is I am a direct descendant of the Brewer branch of the Holyoake family, so he lived on a street named after my family. 

Anyway, things do change and no matter who you blame they continue to change, and you have to adapt to survive.  In Maine lots of bad things were blamed on the French community not that long ago.  They were considered as the dregs of society and beyond redemption.  It wasn't true and they didn't ruin the country.  My mother's father was a Gourdet by the way who to his dying day couldn't read and write in English.  They weren't considered sportsmen since they fished and hunted for food more than sport.  Either way blaming someone doesn't help.

Adapting to what is makes for better experiences.     

[bouncin_toads]

We have to agree to disagree here. I will kill any pike I see. And I will give a pat on the back to anyone I see kill one too. They are INVASIVE and they are here because of idiots like you know-it-alls.

[Linedogg104]

We have to agree to disagree here. I will kill any pike I see. And I will give a pat on the back to anyone I see kill one too. They are INVASIVE and they are here because of idiots like you know-it-alls.

I'm going to catch and release anything I am not going to use. Sorry if you disagree. 

[nbourque]

We have to agree to disagree here. I will kill any pike I see. And I will give a pat on the back to anyone I see kill one too. They are INVASIVE and they are here because of idiots like you know-it-alls.

I’d have to say you’re the idiot.

[Fish Wayniac]

We have to agree to disagree here. I will kill any pike I see. And I will give a pat on the back to anyone I see kill one too. They are INVASIVE and they are here because of idiots like you know-it-alls.

If you hate Pike so much you should fish for another species.

[Anomaly]

 

If you hate Pike so much you should fish for another species.

[woodchip]

This lake is getting closer to a local sewer, all the time

[hardwatergrampa]

depends on what water body iam fishing as to weather they live or die