IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
Ice Fishing Tips -Check your local regulations! => Northern Pike => Topic started by: amazinmoose on Dec 28, 2005, 01:33 PM
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im new to the pike thing... and wish to use native bait, that i jig up (hopefully) and was wonder what some of you guys use and have success with? Perch? kivers? or something else?? and what are best sizes?? i have learned that you fish the bottom, a foot or two up. correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks again –moose
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I've caught pike on all kinds of panfish. All sizes work good but I get bigger pike on the bigger eating size. I have always done the best on bluegills and sunfish. Usually run about a number four treble hook towards the rear of the dorsal fin and keep it 2' - 3' from the bottom in water 15' feet deep or more. I run the bait a little higher in shallower water. Pike will always come up for a live bait. They also will pluck dead baits right off the bottom.
:tipup:
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It depends on which of the two is most numerous. In my area perch are more common than bluegills and I like to whack a small 4 - 6" perch on the head and put a couple split shot above it so it swims and struggles with a subtle action instead of swimming all over the place.
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I have great luck in the summer using any sunfish
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Be sure it is legal to use native fish for bait. It is illegal here in NY.
ranger :tipup:
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huh clay? perch and golden shiners are the number 1 producers for pike in ny. alive is better dead works to.
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Using spiny finned fish is illegal in NY.
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Be sure it is legal to use native fish for bait. It is illegal here in NY.
ranger :tipup:
Using spiny finned fish is illegal in NY.
where in the regs does it say this Ive looked many times but can not find it
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where in the regs does it say this Ive looked many times but can not find it
Quote from the DEC regs!
Collecting Baitfish
Any person who has a fishing license or is entitled to fish without a license may collect baitfish for personal use (sale prohibited) as specified in the following table. Fish taken may be used only for bait in hook-and-line fishing. These are the only circumstances where the use of seines, traps, cast nets, and gill nets are permitted unless a commercial license has been obtained. Possession of endangered or threatened fish species is prohibited.
Minnows, killifish, mudminnows, darters, sticklebacks, stonecats, smelt, alewives, suckers, and blueback herring are the only fish that may be taken.*
Ranger
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I've used perch here in NJ with some
success. check regs where you live to
see if legal :tipup:
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Using perch are illegal here in N. H.
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thanks ranger I was pretty sure that it was illegal I just couldn't find I see it now :)
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From NYSDEC
§19.1 Definition of baits
(a) Artificial lures or bait shall mean manmade flies, spinners, spoons, plugs, jigs and other lures, even though there may be some natural substances contained in such lures as, but not limited to, deer hair and feathers, and artificial imitations of natural bait.
(b) Natural bait shall mean all baits which entice or might be ingested or swallowed by fish including, but not limited to, fish (dead or alive), fish eggs, worms, shellfish, crustacea, amphibians (salamanders, frogs and toads), insects (including all stages of development as larvae, pupae, etc.), pork rinds, liver, meat, corn or other vegetable matter, tapioca, candy, cheese, bread and putty or dough-like scented baits.
(c) Artificial fly means a hook with no more than two points dressed with feathers, hair, thread, tinsel or any similar material to which no hooks, spinners, spoons or similar devices have been added.
I interpret this to mean that if Natural Bait is allowed you can use any fish alive or dead unless noted otherwise for a specific body of water. ie Lake George no Smelt, or some smaller adirondack trout waters where bait fish are prohibited etc
As for as the rules you posted RangerClay, I think that applies to catching baitfish not using it???
Can anyone clarify this for me? baby Perch has been my goto bait for pike and eyes for years :(
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I says "may collect baitfish for personal use (sale prohibited) as specified in the following table. Fish taken may be used only for bait in hook-and-line fishing."
It reads very clear to me. I'm not sure what other uses you have for suckers besides bait but I believe a conservation officer will laugh at you then write a ticket if you tell him how you interpret the law ;D
Do what you want. Don't blame me if you get caught.
Ranger
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well ranger dodo head... I would not say that to an ECO, thats why I am asking about the law. I am trying to educate myself. I still personally do not see where it says you can not use spiney fish for bait. I am not really sure who you think wants to use a sucker for something else but ok????
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sounds to me that is for catching bait fish. dont say nothin bout usin perch or gills as bait key words. Collecting Baitfish
Quote from the DEC regs!
Any person who has a fishing license or is entitled to fish without a license may collect baitfish for personal use (sale prohibited) as specified in the following table. Fish taken may be used only for bait in hook-and-line fishing. These are the only circumstances where the use of seines, traps, cast nets, and gill nets are permitted unless a commercial license has been obtained. Possession of endangered or threatened fish species is prohibited.
Minnows, killifish, mudminnows, darters, sticklebacks, stonecats, smelt, alewives, suckers, and blueback herring are the only fish that may be taken.*
Ranger
[/quote]
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I have followed this thread for a bit, thought I would add my 2 cents. I for one would not like to get an ECO in a writing mood :callcops: so I wrote an e-mail to the DEC. Waiting for a reply. I understand the section of the regs quoted by RangerClay to mean that only those fish listed could be taken by the method outlined. I'll post the reply if I get one.
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looking forward to see what old DEC has to say on this bwalleye!
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everyone interpets things differently
even 2 DEC officers will interpert the same thing differently
would like to hear their reply before I make my trip to NY :tipup:
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Ta Da here is the simple reply to my question
From: "fwfish6" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: use of fish as bait
Date: Monday, January 23, 2006 12:05 PM
You cannot collect or sell sunfish or perch as bait but since there is no length limit on them you can catch one and use it as bait.
>>> <[email protected]> 01/19/06 11:09 AM >>>
Is it permissible to use sunfish or perch caught by hook and line as bait?
So, there it is. The answer is, yes :clap: :thumbsup:
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Thanks bwalleye
thats just the answer I wanted to hear :tipup:
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amen!
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:bow: :bow:
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Andy,
The only live fish that may be used as bait in NH waters are listed on page 14 of the Freshwater Fishing Digest. Spiny finned fish are not included in that list. There is a restriction on ME/NH border waters prohibiting spiny finned fish as bait, either live or dead (page 64 of the Digest).
Sgt. Bonenfant
This is what NH says about the subject :'(
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I too, e-mailed DEC. here is DEC response with my initial message at latter section of correspondence:
The 2004-06 Freshwater Fishing Regulations Guide speaks to the use to fish as bait. See pages 12 and 13 (I assume that you have a copy).
As you will see, "Any person who has a fishing license or is entitled to fish without a license may collect bait for personal use (sale prohibited). Fish taken may be used only for bait in hook-in-line fishing."
There are some specific stimulations as to which species can be taken using various gears such as seines, trap nets, cast nets and gill nets.
Secondly, if you look at the RESTRICTED BAITFISH SECTION, you will see that perch are not included (ie they are not restricted).
Third, you do need to take note of the fact that the use of bait (any bait) is prohibited in several waters, many trout waters. You will see these in the different sections of the guide (e.g. the Special Regulations by County section).
As far as your specific question, there is nothing that prohibits you from using a perch (that you catch) as bait, as long as it is not in a specific water that has a specific prohibition against using bait .
>>> Fish FW 01/25/06 3:17 PM >>>
Please assist, thanks.
01/23/06 10:10 PM >>>
I am writing to clear some difference in opinion among some anglers. I have
been told that it is illegal to use a perch for live bait.even if that perch
was caught by hook and bait in waters where perch are native and a food
source for predatory fish. In reviewing D.E.C. Fishing regs I do not find
anything specific to this claim.
Please advise.
Respectfully
No more muddy waters for NY anglers
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Good to hear...I was catching a bunch of 3-4 inch perch the other day and quit cause I had no use for them, I never knew you could use perch/sunies as bait in NYS, always thought it was illegal....
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Pond shiners if you can jig the are great.
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Can't use a game fish for bait in NY!!
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If no other restrictions apply you may use fish that have no length limit placed on them.
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I dont know about using these for bait..but I know that where I have been fishing...were there are gills there are pike lurking...so it stands to reason they would be good bait
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I received a more detailed response from the DEC and I post it here: If you would like a forward of the e-mail which of course would include headers, pm me a note with your e-mail address.
It is permissible to use sunfish or perch caught by hook and line as bait, provided you are able to legally have that fish in your possession. However, please keep the following in mind:
1. Using a sunfish or a perch as bait counts as part of your "take" of that species. If you catch a sunfish or a perch, use it for bait, and then lose it, it counts as one fish toward your daily limit. You can never possess more than the legal limit for a fish species while you are on the water, with that limit counting any fish you lost while using them for bait. Please keep in mind that while the statewide limit of sunfish and perch is 50, some areas of the state/water bodies have lower limits, such as Nassau and Suffolk Counties where the limit on sunfish and perch is 15 fish each. You would not be able to use sunfish or perch as bait anywhere in NYC because there is a catch and release regulation on all species of fish, so you would not be able to "take" the fish to use as bait.
2. Some waters have minimum length limits on perch (i.e. Nassau County has an 8 inch minimum size limit). You cannot use a sub-legal sunfish or perch for bait on waters where there is a minimum length limit because you are not allowed to "take" that fish.
I hope you found this information useful.
FWFISHgk
>>> <[email protected]> 01/19/06 11:09 AM >>>
Is it permissible to use sunfish or perch caught by hook and line as bait?
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using baby gills[ the real small ones] used to be a nono in ny for perch bait but using the bigger ones for cats and n. pike were ok. makes sense to me???????????????????????????
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I have never been afraid to admit when I am wrong. But here is the straight poop. I got an e-mail the other day from a friend who spoke with an EnCon Officer on the ice. Basically his story re-enforces what BWalleye has said. Here is what was passed onto me.
"Got the skinny on this perch/sunfish issue with new Encon Guy..tells me that if you are fishing on waters where there are no limit on perch/sunnies, then it's no problem using them as pike bait. I was very specific about asking him if it was fish that I caught, not bought if they could be used. The only reason he said that waters with limited amounts could be kept was because EnCon would never know how many you actually kept and used per day...supposing a 25 perch limit, you had 20 in your pail and 5 on the TU's, how many did you catch and use as bait before he came along and counted 25?? Still at the legal limit, but how many did you catch and have taken by pike as bait, died on the hook and dropped, etc."
Thanks for the help Paul. I hope this answers everyones questions.
Ranger :tipup:
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such a fuss, Ive always had better results with shiners anyway.
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i dont know if it would be illegal here in SK but i know its illegal to use live baitfish >:(
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Are you serious! You cant even use suckers or shiners?!!
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that sounds really stupid. whats SK stand for? lol. ive seen a guy using crappies as bait and although its illeagal, im gonna try it out cause he was having flags every half hour! saw him loose a 10 pounder at the hole. its leagal to use perch though. trim them up though so they look skinier
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I always post in these too late , what bwalleye said is correct In my opinion perch are the best Pike bait out there and of you want hog Walleyes well I won't say any thing else. Put it this way I fish for perch to fish for pike.
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Sk = saskatchewan
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that sounds really stupid. whats SK stand for? lol. ive seen a guy using crappies as bait and although its illeagal, im gonna try it out cause he was having flags every half hour! saw him loose a 10 pounder at the hole. its leagal to use perch though. trim them up though so they look skinier
doing something illegal just because you saw someone benefitting from it....another example of the same thing, which by your standards should be ok to do if i follow you correctly.....you see a man shoot another person, and take their wallet...benefitting financially.....so your gonna do it right? however more violent the crime, it is still a crime.....come up with another alternative, it only takes 1 person to give a group a bad name.
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At any rate. Getting back to the original question ...
Bluegills will catch more pike than perch. If you fish where you can legally do this try both and see what you get.
;)