IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
Maine => Ice Fishing Maine => Topic started by: ***WaterWolf*** on Feb 01, 2010, 07:57 AM
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Thought this was interesting
http://news.tradingcharts.com/futures/3/5/134670053.html
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Thought this was interesting
http://news.tradingcharts.com/futures/3/5/134670053.html
http://news.tradingcharts.com/futures/3/5/134670053.html (ftp://http://news.tradingcharts.com/futures/3/5/134670053.html)
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Jan 29, 2010 (Bangor Daily News - McClatchy-Tribune Information Services via COMTEX) -- TOWNSHIP 7 RANGE 17, Maine -- A brand-new two-story camp constructed by wardens for their enforcement work at Baker Lake deep in the forest in northern Somerset County has come under fire from some legislators.
Since March 2009, wardens were assigned to construct a timber-framed camp to replace a rotting one-room cabin that floods during high water in this remote location about 96 miles north of Greenville.
When the exterior siding is installed and some further electrical work is done in the spring, an official said the state will have invested about $130,000 in the insulated 16-by-28-foot camp with its 8-foot partial wrap-around porch.
Constructed farther back from the waterway than the old cabin, the new camp has a metal roof, a knotty pine finish, snap-in wood flooring, manufactured cupboards, a propane stove and refrigerator, and two bedrooms that can hold eight people.
"We now have a facility that our staff can take pride in and will meet their needs of having privacy, adequate space and facilities that are necessary for our expectations of them while on assignment in the region," Col. Joel Wilkinson of the Maine Warden Service said recently.
Many state buildings
in 'rough' condition
In addition to the 34 camps and houses the Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife owns on state-owned and leased lands, the state also owns 56 structures within the Department of Conservation that include staff housing and camps.
Click to read this story
But there are those who question the logic of spending the funds at a wilderness camp when the department is seeking fee increases from sportsmen.
"I'm very upset about it, to be honest with you," said Rep. Dale Crafts, R-Lisbon. "We worked very hard through the budget to really try to keep down fees for the sportsmen." Each time the department raises fees, there are fewer hunters, he said.
Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife Commissioner Roland "Danny" Martin staunchly defended the project, saying the camps in the state's remote areas are critical to the department's mission.
He said the license fee increases that started this month are unrelated to the new camp construction. The construction was funded through the general budget and was not a special appropriation.
The annual total budgets for the DIF&W were $35,905,812 in 2008, $37,618,407 in 2009 and $39,322,626 in the current fiscal year, 2010, which ends June 30. Of those amounts, the warden service expended $13,256,457 in 2008 and $14,954,982 in 2009. A total of $14,581,235 in expenditures was budgeted for 2010.
The new construction at Baker Lake was funded through the general operations maintenance building budget, Wilkinson said.
The warden service and DIF&W's engineering department budgeted a total of $320,141 in fiscal year 2008 for the repair and maintenance of the warden camps and houses. In 2009, a total of $318,927 was budgeted, and in 2010 the figure is $278,210. The figures do not include labor costs.
"We try to budget out what it annually costs us for maintenance, upkeep and repairing facilities, and that's the numbers we budget for," Wilkinson said.
Used for enforcement
The Baker Lake camp, located on state land, is one of 34 "rustic" camps or houses owned by DIF&W and used for enforcement work by wardens, biologists and a variety of law enforcement officers, Wilkinson said.
He said he plans in the future to provide the Legislature's Inland Fisheries and Wildlife Committee an overview of all of the department's camps, where they are located and whether they are on state-owned or leased land. He said he has no idea what the camps are valued at and wasn't sure who had that information.
The buildings, in various stages of neglect, are located in areas that otherwise have no or limited residency options available, Wilkinson said. Staff members are temporarily assigned to these areas for high seasonal activities such as bird, moose and deer hunting, as well as fishing and extended search-and-rescue missions.
The new camp, which has a pit toilet and a gray water system, will allow the department to do more work in the region and provide a decent place to stay for wardens and those engaged in border patrol activities under the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, which provided the funds for a generator, Wilkinson explained.
When the camps are not in use for enforcement details, DIF&W policy allows employees free use of them for rest and relaxation, according to Wilkinson. Those who use the camps are asked to sign in on logbooks provided at each camp. If the camp visit is for relaxation, users are asked to do some general maintenance, such as mowing the lawn, he said.
Wilkinson, who was appointed in 2008 to lead the warden service, said he looked at the condition of the buildings owned by the department. "What we'd done in the past, pretty much, is put Band-Aids on a lot of the camps that were in less than, I would say, stellar condition," he said.
Since an employee complained about the squalid living conditions of the Lily Bay camp in a grievance filed in 2005 that later turned into a lawsuit, Wilkinson said it seemed wise to improve one or two camps a year to bring them up to standards.
The warden who filed the lawsuit said the camp was infested by rodents and had no running water or indoor plumbing, and was unsanitary because of rodent droppings. That lawsuit was settled but the details were not released as part of the settlement.
Sympathetic to the employee's concerns, Wilkinson said, "I'm not going to ask people to go stay in something that I don't think is suitable."
Because considerable planning had been done for the Baker Lake project before his advancement, Wilkinson chose to continue with that project, considering its condition.
The Baker Lake camp is "a stinky, old, nasty camp," Wilkinson said.
A visit by the Bangor Daily News in late December found a cobbled-together rustic building not much larger than an ice-fishing shack. Inside, the decaying ceiling appears to be home to rodents even though mousetraps dotted the sagging floor.
Despite its condition, the camp, which will be removed in the spring, had much use. The weathered logbook inside the cabin recorded a mixture of work details and of getaways by former and current employees and other law enforcement officials.
Rep. Paul Davis, R-Sangerville, who stayed at the old camp for a fishing trip several years ago while in law enforcement, also inspected the old camp and the new camp last month.
Although the old camp is in less than stellar condition, Davis questioned spending more than $100,000 on a new camp at a time the department is seeking license fee increases. He said he doesn't dispute the need for the camps, but spending that much money in this troubled economy bothers him.
"It's disappointing, and I don't care for it much," he said.
Davis and Crafts, both members of the Inland Fisheries and Wildlife Committee, said they should have been told about the new construction at Baker Lake by the department and not have learned about it from others.
Both said hunters who either saw wardens working on the camp or who learned about the new camp had complained to them.
Cost of camp disputed
When the BDN was told by a caller late last year that the new camp cost $300,000, inquiries were made of the department and Davis.
Upset over the rumored cost, Martin fired off a memo to Senate and House leaders in early December stating that the cost was less than $40,000.
Martin said recently the figure in his memo was based on what had been expended up to Dec. 10 and the expenditures have since been updated.
Ron Taylor, the DIF&W's engineer, who devised a spreadsheet for the project, said that as of earlier this month, $71,192 had been spent by the warden service and the department's engineering department for supplies.
In addition, 2,155 hours were spent over an eight-month period by department personnel on the camp at a cost of $43,230. That amount does not include benefits.
Other costs include $9,400 spent in 2007 to saw and size the timber frame, an estimated $2,500 for electrical work to be done in the spring and staff time to complete the exterior finish.
When completed, Taylor estimated, the total cost of the project -- which includes the pit toilet, the permitting process, the construction of the camp and a small shed, and the demolition of the old camp --will be about $130,000.
Bids were solicited for the roof and the blown insulation in accordance with the state's rules and policies, Taylor noted. Competitive costing was done on the project, he said.
Crafts said he believes the true cost of the Baker Lake camp, if the benefits are included, is in the $175,000 range.
Whatever the cost, Davis said, "It isn't where I would have spent the money, that's for darn sure." He said he would have used the funds to address the department's ongoing budget issues, such as the lack of funds for the printing of some lawbooks and the mileage restrictions wardens are under.
He also was critical of the hours wardens spent constructing the building. "They should have been out in the field doing what they were hired to do," he said.
The wardens who worked on the camp during the slow seasons were available if needed in the field, Wilkinson said.
"If they needed to be in the field working on an active criminal investigation case, we never would take somebody off from that," he said.
Between March 26 and Nov. 20 of last year, Wilkinson said game wardens worked 25 separate enforcement details in the Baker Lake region.
Having his wardens build the camp was an effort to save money, Wilkinson said, and he guessed it would have cost a lot more if the work had been farmed out.
"I am extremely proud of our staff's efforts to improve this department facility by utilizing their talents to provide an excellent work location," he added.
Those efforts also were applauded by other state officials. "I think Col. Wilkinson was innovative in the way he approached the repairs and bringing that up to an appropriate standard," said David Farmer, Gov. John Baldacci's deputy chief of staff. "We are always cognizant of the resources that we're spending, how that money is being spent and the governor has taken a keen interest in finding as many efficiencies as possible."
At the same time, the state has an obligation to provide proper facilities to employees who work to manage and protect the state's multibillion-dollar natural resources industry, Farmer said.
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If you could find some info on the new forest rangers camp it would make the wardens camp look like a one room shanty!
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Ahhh that was fun watching them build that while I shot the first pair of ducks for the season up there on opening day ;D ;D made some great dinner that night
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"Crafts, believes that the true costs of the Baker Lake Camp, if benefits are included is in the $175,000.00 range."
For a 16' X 28' camp? That is $390.63 per square foot, who did the competitive cost analysis on this job? Holy schnikees, I'd love to bid on a job like that, how do I get in on this? Seriously, a competitive bid to build a new home is $100.00 - $120.00 per square foot if your lucky enough to find a prospective client who can afford that in this economy. :o
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That "camp" is most likely better then most the houses we all live in...lmao
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Did they ever think of using State Prison work release inmates to save $$$, I bet they have some crafty Knowledgeable people who would love to help.
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What a joke. If the wardens have so much time on there hands at certain times of the year, they should be part time. Work when there's work. Not make up work for them to keep them busy. Sounds like the city of Augusta employees, how good the roads look during a storm depend on where there at with hours for the week. ???
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these camps r not just used by our civil servants,its also a great place for our senators and reps and other state legs to get away with their families on our buck Sure wish i could get a weekend
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Sound's like a nice camp wish it was mine.
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As a contractor I can say it could have been built a lot less expensively, (not to mention probably built better) by someone who does it for a living. All building projects done by the state should be put out to bid, saving the taxpayer money and employing workers in this state. Win/Win
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"A visit by the Bangor Daily News in late December found a cobbled-together rustic building not much larger than an ice-fishing shack. Inside, the decaying ceiling appears to be home to rodents even though mousetraps dotted the sagging floor"
I have been to baker...the old camp was MUCH bigger than a shanty Thank you very much . it is hard to feel bad when the dept. cries they are so underfunded and short staffed and then read something like this...im with emerald i wish i had been in on this job...i could go fishing the rest of the winter ::)
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All this wasteful spending. :o :o :o......When is it gonna stop????......No time soon; as long as the polititions keep reaping the bennies of vacation gettaways......They just keep dreaming up more ways to Tax us. (SPORTMAN) ::) ::) ::).....Keep voting the same people in office & expect different results.. :P.....LL
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HERE HERE Double L! It is our job as sportsmen to ask each and every one of our legislators where they stand on issues we care about as they pertain to fishing and hunting, and then hold them accountable for their actions.
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All incubants "down the road".Lets start fresh with new blood.LLS
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Ok Im gonna be the bad guy While I worked I expected my employer to provide a decent place for me to stay the night and never once complained about the place I picked or where we ate (on the company nickel) I have never been to that place and Ive only heard of rumors of places up here but when they are doing thier job ya gotta have a place to unwind and I cant imagine how uncomfortable it is laying in the bushes spying on me all day
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I don't think anyone will argue they may have needed better accommodations, but 130k low end to 175k high end, is little extreme if ya ask me.
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Ok Im gonna be the bad guy While I worked I expected my employer to provide a decent place for me to stay the night and never once complained about the place I picked or where we ate (on the company nickel) I have never been to that place and Ive only heard of rumors of places up here but when they are doing thier job ya gotta have a place to unwind and I cant imagine how uncomfortable it is laying in the bushes spying on me all day
I don't disagree with you one bit but a more modest, less expensive place, built to specifications by the low bidder would still provide an adequate place to unwind and be as comfy.
This is but one example of taxpayer dollars wasted, and there are a lot of instances I can point out. Add them all up and it comes out to real money.
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whats a hotel cost to build that you stay in?
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whats a hotel cost to build that you stay in?
Whatever it costs, it's put out to bid and the hotel owners don't pay the long dollar to have it done.
Thats the difference between running a business and running a tax and spend state.
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Whatever it costs, it's put out to bid and the hotel owners don't pay the long dollar to have it done.
That's the difference between running a business and running a tax and spend state.
Interesting point, and by the way this job by state law was supposed to be put out to public bid by a private contractor! Now that this has been made public information I suspect some heads are gonna roll! Why, because I know a thing or two about how things operate in state government, point #1 is that I highly suspect state employees were working on this camp while claiming the hours on the state secured payroll system and at the same time submitting an invoice for services rendered in the form of labor to build this Shangri La, otherwise known as double dipping. Somebody please explain to me how this camp at Baker Lake is any different then the highway and bridge projects that Maine DOT has to put out to competitive bid by contractors as required by federal and state law and the State of Maine must accept the lowest bid providing the contractor has the required insurances and bonds and has the neccesary experience and equipment. At $390.63 per square foot for a 16' X 28' camp, Maine citizens were robbed at the hands of thieves and this is unconsciounable!
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Whatever it costs, it's put out to bid and the hotel owners don't pay the long dollar to have it done.
nor do they have the chambermaids build it . i wonder if everything is up to code? i dont imagine there is much code enforcement going on at baker lake ::) wish i could walk trhrough and hand out tickets for everything i find in violation :laugh:
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IF&W is broke cant afford crap cut backs everywhere at the point of bankrupcy.Got a new cabin. wonder who'll get to enjoy that
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HERE HERE Double L! It is our job as sportsmen to ask each and every one of our legislators where they stand on issues we care about as they pertain to fishing and hunting, and then hold them accountable for their actions.
Problem is: They all tell you, what you want to hear to get elected; Then they do as they d^^m please, after they are in office......I agree w/ a previous post/ The thing to do is send a STRONG MESSAGE, that they will ALL understand: VOTE: ALL INCUMBANTS OUT!!!!!!!!. ::)......NO EXCEPTIONS !......LL
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I dont disagree that they needed new quarters. It is also extreemly expensive to do business in that area. We are talking about an area that is about 3 hours from us pavment. I am surprised that someone hasnt asked this question. Why does IF&W have a ****censored word****ing engineer?
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nor do they have the chambermaids build it . i wonder if everything is up to code? i dont imagine there is much code enforcement going on at baker lake ::) wish i could walk trhrough and hand out tickets for everything i find in violation :laugh:
some places in Maine dont haveto follow code lol or in others what code do they follow pick one of the 3/4 or 5 out there boca? mmbc? remember Maine Adopted a Voluntary Statewide Building Code
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Why does IF&W have a ****censored word****ing engineer?
to run the train
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I guess I'll chime in on what I know about the project. It's a post and beam building, there were sub contactors hired to complete the framing which was cut out a couple of years ago, and erected last fall. The roofing was hired out also. Like someone said, the remoteness of the building pushes the cost way up also. I believe that there was something like 800 yds of gravel hauled (by the state) but purchased at premium dollars. The state does use work release inmates on projects but couldn't here because of the location. I believe that the original building was rodent infested and in very bad shape. I believe the money for the project was appropriated a few years ago also. I'm sure that money could have been saved on the project like any state project, but maybe this post will answer a few questions. :-\
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and if they :callcops: are working on the camp they are leaving us alone >:D
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that's a load of crap... as a younger man i am wondering what ill be paying for a hunting/fishing lic when I'm 50??? what the out of state'rs are paying now? Now we understand where our money is going... you dint hire a plumber to fix your car... why are they building anything other than an ego and a dink like attitude??? I agree they need a place that is suitable to stay in... why couldn't they have brought a bunch of ready mix cement up... formed up and poured a pad.. buy a pre fab log camp from a local biz... help the community a little.. and saved 100,000$$ now i know where my money is going and why fee's are going up. been waiting for this one.. Really considering being one of those people who stop hunting,, i put more meat on the table fishing than i do hunting... your lucky to shoot a deer every decade.... id rather go to P.A. and fill the back of my truck up with does in a weekend....
Wait until they make us register our canoes... not far from it..... then ice shacks.... then snowshoes....
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Whole entire project should have been put out to private contractor competitive bid from the very start, it was because of a few ignorant and self important individuals within the department took it upon themselves to decide what was best in thier interest's first and in the public's interest second, same mentality ruled in the big game registration fee increase. Can you seriously doubt whether a large number of highly qualified contractors who have been out of work for extended periods of time would not have absolutely jumped all over this project now matter how remote, we would pull campers up there with men and equipment and do whatever it takes! Job would have been done at far less than half the cost with quality far in excess of what you ended up with. Here we go again BOYS, state of Maine politicians and beaurocrats do everything they can to crush small business and the working class in our state. Pretty ludricous, our own state motto is "Don't tread on ME". You go ahead and justify this debacle, personally I think it sucks! >:( >:(
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Great reply Emrald, anyone else for the great state of Maine!
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Not saying they don't need a place to stay when working in an area as remote as Baker Lake. They preform a much need service and even on their best days the job is difficult...but it's their chosen profession. Most "homes" in Northern Maine with plumbing, heating, drilled wells don't cost $130,000.00 and it's not finished yet. Check out Hill View Mini Barns in Sabattus Maine. They have a 14X42 camp package ready for delivery for $31,734.00 http://www.hillviewminibarns.com/stock_detail.php?est_num=5403 (http://www.hillviewminibarns.com/stock_detail.php?est_num=5403) The state ( tax payers ) would have saved money and supported a Maine business... just a thought
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to run the train
It wouldnt surprise me if they had a train.
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I don't begrudge the wardens a decent place to stay while working the area. The thing that upsets me is that they were working on this when they should have been in the field doing what they were trained and hired to do, protect our fish and wildlife. And, as others have pointed out, I'm sure it could have been done less expensively.
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Why not a top of the line wall tent from Cabelas with a wood stove and all the creature comforts? After some quick math, I see only spending $6,000.00 if you really deck it out, then at the end of each "high traffic" season, you take it all down. Now you have just eliminated any rodent problems and extra maint. I say sell the cabins, but a 10 or 12 of these things, and use them on a need basis. The cost of a dozen tricked out wall tents would be around $72,000. Now you have 12 buildings for less then cost of one new building.
And if our state reps. do not like they can all pool their money and buy these cabins together at cost. Just my opinion.
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Wardens cant live in a tent. If you really wanted to get excited you should check out some of the other "camps" they have on some nice lakes. They get a dedicated amout of money every year to spend on camps and houses, how they spend it shouldnt really matter. We (sportsmen) have more important things to be concerned over, like deer or why we continue to pay for finding lost hikers and little old ladies.
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Okay, I've got a question. I know that other folks use these camps when the warden service isn't, like sens and reps. Do those folks pay a fee and if so is it commensurate with what a comparative sporting lodge would charge? If they don't pay anything, why not?
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Blacktrap is right they can't live in a tent, they need something that can be used in any weather 365 days a year. It's just the price of this thing and how it was built that has everyone wired. The other thing blacktrap was right on target with is the money DIF&W spends each year on search & rescue. Many of these rescue missions are for people who watch a TV show and think... "wow that looks like fun I think I"ll try it". They have no experience or training in the activity but head out and do it anyway and get into trouble. In situations like this DIF&W needs to charge the negligent, reckless and unprepared person the full cost of their rescue. I would like to say this might make them think twice before they head into the outdoors, but these people obviously don't think... so make them pay.
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Blacktrap is right they can't live in a tent, they need something that can be used in any weather 365 days a year. It's just the price of this thing and how it was built that has everyone wired. The other thing blacktrap was right on target with is the money DIF&W spends each year on search & rescue. Many of these rescue missions are for people who watch a TV show and think... "wow that looks like fun I think I"ll try it". They have no experience or training in the activity but head out and do it anyway and get into trouble. In situations like this DIF&W needs to charge the negligent, reckless and unprepared person the full cost of their rescue. I would like to say this might make them think twice before they head into the outdoors, but these people obviously don't think... so make them pay.
I agree 100% about them needing to charge for negligent people they need to search for. I don't agree with the tent statement. For the amount of time they actually need to stay out in the feild away from home they sure can sleep in a tent 365. This cabin sounds more like a place to vacation not work out of. Its just bad timing on there part.
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they could have built a structure that would more than suffice for half what they spent. Getting the materials to the site is a big expense, so ill give them a little there...a deck around 3 sides sounds like a bit of overkill but I havent seen it so I won't jump to conclusions just yet . as far as homeland security throwing in a generator to use the place sounds a little odd to me...i think maybe the feds could some up with a little more than that unless they are only using it once a year. from what Ive read the only ones who can use it otherwise are Maine IF&W employees . I build homes for a living...i would have liked a shot at bidding this project . I dont think the IF&W employess should have a hand in that at all...it is a dangerous job if you dont know what you are doing and im wondering who foots the bill when one of them gets hurt? lots of unanswered questions which I'm sure are unanswered for a reason :-\ dissapointing to say the least
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they could have built a structure that would more than suffice for half what they spent. Getting the materials to the site is a big expense, so ill give them a little there...a deck around 3 sides sounds like a bit of overkill but I haven't seen it so I won't jump to conclusions just yet . as far as homeland security throwing in a generator to use the place sounds a little odd to me...i think maybe the feds could some up with a little more than that unless they are only using it once a year. from what Ive read the only ones who can use it otherwise are Maine IF&W employees . I build homes for a living...i would have liked a shot at bidding this project . I don't think the IF&W employees should have a hand in that at all...it is a dangerous job if you don't know what you are doing and I'm wondering who foots the bill when one of them gets hurt? lots of unanswered questions which I'm sure are unanswered for a reason :-\ disappointing to say the least
Oh contraire Wise One. From what I've read our esteemed senators and representatives are qualified to use the facilities as well as other "friends of the service" if you will. I want to know if they are paying for the privilege, if not, why not, and if they are, where is that money going?
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is there somewhere i can read this for myself? as i posted..."from what i've read" i dont mind reading more i just cant find more ;D
if the senators can use it for free then i want to also!
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Unless I'm delusional from planning the upcoming Superbowl gathering it was right in the Bangor paper series they did on the debacle.
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it was a self help project goverment (state feds and esp Military) do it all the time I know alot of the stuff I got if we didnt do it we were not gonna get squat
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Setting the cost of the camp aside for a minute, I think RTD makes the best point. How in the heck with 30 something field wardens for the entire State can there be "down time" for swinging a hammer? :wacko:
And "available if needed" from Baker Lake ??? Ya, O.K., I'll be right there. :cookoo:
I built my 24 X 32 camp for $10K. ;D
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Jan 29, 2010 (Bangor Daily News - McClatchy-Tribune Information Services via COMTEX) -- TOWNSHIP 7 RANGE 17, Maine
"When the camps are not in use for enforcement details, DIF&W policy allows employees free use of them for rest and relaxation, according to Wilkinson. Those who use the camps are asked to sign in on logbooks provided at each camp. If the camp visit is for relaxation, users are asked to do some general maintenance, such as mowing the lawn, he said."
this is all i can find on who is allowed to use it
as far as a self help project i agree they really helped themselves since the IF&W legislative comittee knew nothing about it...
..."Davis and Crafts, both members of the Inland Fisheries and Wildlife Committee, said they should have been told about the new construction at Baker Lake by the department and not have learned about it from others.
Both said hunters who either saw wardens working on the camp or who learned about the new camp had complained to them. "
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my 24x36 garage not counting electrical was more than 10 k lol
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I know that when Loring was around we had a "self Help" store
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The bangor daily news website has a few pictures of the new camp and also the old camp. The old one does not look that bad. It must have taken some of the wardens days to get up there to help build the cabin since they can only drive 60 miles a day.
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Link to the pictures in the BDN
http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/135760.html (http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/135760.html)
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:P i think they should raise the price of the fishing lisences again next year and get a hot tub! I dont really do post and beam construction and while it is nice i think it may be a little expensive compared to conventional framing. im sure out4trout could give us a little insight there. what i would like to know is why? why in these trying economic times when the dept. is crying for funds, and raising fees on everything they cant put in their vacation home at baker lake, why do they think it is ok to build something that is so much more than sufficient? I dont know the whole thing just stinks to me at a time when i have a hard time finding work we got wardens building themselves vacation homes at our expense x2 :(
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I was amazed at the $43,230 in labor hrs. the wardens put in, over an 8 month period. :cookoo: :cookoo: :nono:
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what I wonder is why its ok for the state to give employees shut down days, and increase the cost of their health care (which I do not agree with) to save the tax payers money, but then turn around and build a "working" camp that sounds more like a vacation home for off duty wardens on the backs of us sportsmen that are already paying for all of IFW
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I don't know how many day's this camp is occupied for Law enforcement or research VS "leisure time", As someone who spends 24 hr shifts away from home I agree with Hazzy,The employee should have suitable accommodations. Hopefully it was for that reason and not for some politician to be comfortable.The way it was built is wrong it should have been put out to bid. I have hunted and fished out of camp's a lot worse than the one their tearing down.
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Now that I have seen that it is in fact a two story structure from a previous post with pics I stand corrected, second floor framing, subfloor, wall framing, insulation, interior wall sheathing and a finished stairway from first to second floor and including 2nd floor windows with interior and exterior trim would reduce the cost to $350.63 per square foot, just trying to be fair here fellahs! Hmmmm, 100 miles north of Greenville, 3 hours from a paved road, yet there is a certain lumberyard in Greenville that would provide free delivery and an extremely competitive total material package at a cost that even Home Depot could not compete with. Another point to serve as a public service message is the fact that all State of Maine employees mileage and expense vouchers are public information, I do not know about thier hours logged working as a state employee or overtime hours logged as a state employee. With due diligence, all the names and faces can be traced back to this project technically if state guidelines were followed to log hours and expenses but somehow I get the feeling this trail will just disappear. :( >:(
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I myself have spent many a night in various hunting cabins that were not five star resorts and I was quite comfy.
For the record, I agree the wardens need a decent camp to stay in when they are up in the woods, absolutely. But how many would really be staying there at one time? I'm thinking usually 1-2 and 3-4 max, a single level camp with the kitchen/ dining area and 4 bunks in the back should have been plenty adequate. The covered porch I'm o.k. with as well, gives you a place to sit outside of it's raining, not to mention a good place to put your firewood under cover. The idea of them living in a wall tent is absurd, You can still have decent and very comfortable living quarters without spending a small fortune, I can't help but think that the design and cost of this camp had more to do with the people that are not wardens using it than the wardens.
BTW, I'm currently pricing a house for my daughter 28'x40' cape with a full foundation and breezeway, I came in under $92,000 for the labor, materials and thing I would have to subcontract. Granted, I'm not working for much on this one and between her husband and I we will be doing the plumbing and electrical so that saves a lot but it just goes to show..........
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I wish my camp was as nice as the "old camp".
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I would like to know how they can justify spending this much money in a time when they have no money when there is a camp that should have been suitable at least until the economy gets better. Every single camp I have been in has a rodent problem and needs leveling once in awhile. I agree they shouldn't have to live out of a tent but they don't need something as luxurious as they have built.
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well I have to agree with the self help deal (sorry contractors) if you took the amount in materials and what they contracted out for so far I dont think you can get much they need a nice place to stay in Id be damed if Id stay in a place that didnt come up to those specs they have it isnt like they have an individual room but a bunk house the money the state is saving vs paying oh lets just guess state rate at alot of places can be over 100+ a night during high times maybe this will last quite awhile give them a place to unwind allow the bioligist a place to work from do thier work get good # ect but if I had to stay in an insect / rodent skunk infested place I wouldnt go Id travel and that gets to be pretty heafty I think the mileage costs are about 55cents a mile now a happy warden is gonna create better relations with the sportsmen if I spent a night in a infested place Id be pissed and prob take it out on each of the people I met during the day told ya I was gonna be oppeset of most!
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I guess I'm not real sure what rodent/insect infestation has to do with any of this. When our hunting camp became mouse, squirrel porcipine infested we
didnt build a new camp. We trapped, shot or poisoned everything we didnt want in the camp. Then again if it wasnt our money we probably would have built
a $130,000 camp right beside it and tore the original one down. Too bad they couldnt sell this so called uninhabitable camp, I'd be interested in buying it.
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if they werent doing anything we have to pay them anyway so I right off the labor right away
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if they werent doing anything we have to pay them anyway so I right off the labor right away
i say if they werent doing anything they should have laid them off then rehired them once they needed the extra manpower. Obviusly they are over staffed for 8 months a year.
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I guess you'll just have to chalk me up as a disgruntled taxpayer tired of watching local, state and federal governments spend more and more each year wanting for nothing while the rest of us have to cut back in these lean times. I see waste and excess in all branches of government from the town of Caribou all the way to D.C., anyone who denies it isn't paying attention.
It's obvious to me that some posting here have reaped the benefits of taxpayer money and think it is a bottomless pit to draw from, it isn't. As far as a unhappy warden giving me a hard time because he didn't sleep good the night before, a call to the commissioner or colonel will take care of that, last time I checked they work for me and not the other way around.
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if they werent doing anything we have to pay them anyway so I right off the labor right away
I don't understand that, Don't they work a forty hour week for which we pay them to fullfill duties we have hired them to do? Don't we pay extra for management personell to define what those duties are? I don't recall the specific words but I think those highly paid management people came up with some sort of mission statement which, to the best of my recollection, did not involve carpentry duties.
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wel they have a nice pace to stay it is over now contractors have to do the electrical the only issue is can the tax payers stay there if we mow the lawn all the rest is done
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wel they have a nice pace to stay it is over now contractors have to do the electrical the only issue is can the tax payers stay there if we mow the lawn all the rest is done
Ahhhh, I knew there was a method behind this campaign of yours Hazzy, looking for some free prime time reservations in the Hotel Baker? Very sly indeed! Just funnin with ya. You are right though about Maine State taxpayers being included, after all our money built the "camp" but I doubt we will be included on the invitation only list. One other question crossed my mind today, how many man hours does it take three wardens to nail up a sheet of plywood? ;D ;D ;D
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The more I thought about the 2155 man hours the more I scratch my head. I had 30-35 days in mine and other people probably had 100 hours total.... I don't even remotely see how that many hours is possible. I bet this gets real "stinky" before all is said and done. :-\ :tipup:
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The more I thought about the 2155 man hours the more I scratch my head. I had 30-35 days in mine and other people probably had 100 hours total.... I don't even remotely see how that many hours is possible. I bet this gets real "stinky" before all is said and done. :-\ :tipup:
It always takes unskilled people longer to do the same job as a skilled person.
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One thing you guys are forgetting is that the article was in the Bangor Daily News. Who the heck knows what the truth really is.
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One thing you guys are forgetting is that the article was in the Bangor Daily News. Who the heck knows what the truth really is.
Question, have you read the article on page one of this thread which was extremely well written with quotes from proper sources that were in the know on this particular debacle. Bangor Daily News did a great job of reporting the facts in thier article, left everything to those in the know to speak out about the issue with zero biased reporter or jounalistic comments, how is this not truth finding?
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Question, have you read the article on page one of this thread which was extremely well written with quotes from proper sources that were in the know on this particular debacle. Bangor Daily News did a great job of reporting the facts in thier article, left everything to those in the know to speak out about the issue with zero biased reporter or jounalistic comments, how is this not truth finding?
1. I was never able to open the link provided by C. Tripp so I could not read the "well written article". Just tried again twice and was still unable to open it.
2. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I believe 1/2 of what I see in our media and NONE of what I read. Your milage may be differnet.
3. Never said I didn't agree that the figures (if true) are very high.
4. If you want to argue have at it. I'm not falling into that trap.
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1. I was never able to open the link provided by C. Tripp so I could not read the "well written article". Just tried again twice and was still unable to open it.
2. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I believe 1/2 of what I see in our media and NONE of what I read. Your milage may be differnet.
3. Never said I didn't agree that the figures (if true) are very high.
4. If you want to argue have at it. I'm not falling into that trap.
No arguement wanted or intended JDK, not meant to offend you! :)
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I cut and pasted it on page 1 I had issues opening it up too thats why I pasted it
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Thank you mainehazmt. I though your cut and paste said BDN.
Takes more than what you said to offend me Emerald. Just seems like everyone on this site has their panties in a wad over everything lately. I think some need to fish more. ;)
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... . I don't even remotely see how that many hours is possible.
I bet is was one heck of a party. Never mind that a experienced builder could do in a hour what a nim wit warden could accomplish all day.
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Thank you mainehazmt. I though your cut and paste said BDN.
Takes more than what you said to offend me Emerald. Just seems like everyone on this site has their panties in a wad over everything lately. I think some need to fish more. ;)
I think your probably right!
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Thank you mainehazmt. I though your cut and paste said BDN.
Takes more than what you said to offend me Emerald. Just seems like everyone on this site has their panties in a wad over everything lately. I think some need to fish more. ;)
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Yes, JDK have to hand it to you with that comment, is very true and wise words. Lots of folks hurting out there from the economy which brings out a lot of anger over so many other issues that have nothing to do with fishing, me included, thanks for reminding us of that. A single day spent on the ice, fishing, watching a sunrise or sunset with or without fish caught can truly take the edge off, and that is a good thing! :icefish: