Author Topic: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester,Fulton County.  (Read 11836 times)

Offline Retired-UAW

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Lake Manitou.Near Rochester,Fulton County.
« on: Feb 27, 2008, 09:01 PM »
Can`t believe nobody`s asking about this lake.
\\\"WORK\\\" is for people who don`t know how to \\\"FISH\\\"

Offline abishop

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #1 on: Feb 27, 2008, 09:05 PM »
I know with the weed problem they banned all fishing unless you had a boat docked on the lake. I heard 4 3 years. Next year will be the third year. Havent heard if you could ice fish. Guess you could. Good crappie and gill lake . But you know what happens when they kill off all the weeds. Might be really hard to catch them now. imo

Offline coondog59

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #2 on: Feb 27, 2008, 09:17 PM »
friends from work fishing it, park behind casey's gas station on north side of lake and fish bay right there. Coondog

Offline AlgaeKilla

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #3 on: Feb 27, 2008, 10:07 PM »
I know with the weed problem they banned all fishing unless you had a boat docked on the lake. I heard 4 3 years. Next year will be the third year.  But you know what happens when they kill off all the weeds. Might be really hard to catch them now. imo

Last year '07 was the first year they restricted boat traffic due to the hydrilla discovery. The low doses of Floridone should not kill eel grass, coontail and most native "pond weeds". I should eradicate the hydrilla and Eurasian water milfoil. The milfoil will probably bounce back in a few years, if not all the better. More cabbage and less garbage. The gill population should boom in the next year or two with less being pulled off the beds. Then the size structure will probably crash due to population dynamics. With more small gills the bass will grow big fast, eventually it will all balance out. Of course none of this is guaranteed, but that's what is supposed to happen. IMO
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Offline lakehopper

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #4 on: Feb 28, 2008, 01:59 PM »
even tho it may be safe i wouldn't eat any thing outta there for awhile with all that weed spray they are using
dint wont to look back 20 years from know and hear them say it causes cancer
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Offline AlgaeKilla

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #5 on: Feb 28, 2008, 05:46 PM »
Its not the 1950's here. lol The chemical companies spends millions of dollars researching there products. And believe me the EPA would not allow anything to be put in the water that was not safe. The dosage rates being used are less than 6 parts per billion. Just for an example, FDA allows about 5 times that concentration of rodent feces in food production. Besides, floridone, the active ingredient of Sonar, is a chlorophyll inhibitor not a contact killer.  Humans don't produce chlorophyll or we would all be green. lol
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Offline musky8it

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #6 on: Feb 28, 2008, 10:54 PM »
Its not the 1950's here. Lil The chemical companies spends millions of dollars researching there products. And believe me the EPA would not allow anything to be put in the water that was not safe. The dosage rates being used are less than 6 parts per billion. Just for an example, FDA allows about 5 times that concentration of rodent feces in food production. Besides, floridone, the active ingredient of Sonar, is a chlorophyll inhibitor not a contact killer.  Humans don't produce chlorophyll or we would all be green. Lil

I am sorry to say, but the DNR could care less about what happens to Indiana lakes(IF you have enough money to PAY THEM OFF or a politician in your back pocket)....Just go look at Bass and Maxinkuckee. The big weed beds we had yrs ago are all gone, especially on Max...

WHY????...Cause the DNR lets the Lake Associations kill them cause those people are RICH and have political pull. On Max the weeds clogged up their jetskiis and BIG boats. Plus the keels on the big sailboat(Culver Military) would catch on the weeds....SO.... Since the 70's, the lake association has been killing weeds.....Mrs. Honssong(Executive Director
Lake Maxinkuckee Environmental Fund, Inc) calls it cleaning up the overflow of nutrients....

The next post I will add a reply letter from here....Its all bull to me, The Max. Lake Assoc. only wanted to kill weeds for their recreation


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Offline musky8it

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #7 on: Feb 28, 2008, 11:00 PM »
Here is that letter I got from her. If you have enough money and polictical pull, the DNR will turn their backs and let the Lake Assoc. kill all your weeds...There used to be a big cabbage weed patch just left of the ramp on Max., its gone along with all the rest of the cabbage. At least I can't find any.


*************************

My name is Tina Hissong and I am the director of the Lake Maxinkuckee
Environmental Council (LMEC).  We are conservationists also.

The water quality of our lake is considered good, but that was not always
so.  In the late 1970šs and early 1980šs residents noticed the water quality
was declining and decided to do something about it.  A group of concerned
residents hired a professor from the University of Florida to study the
lake.  That study, The Historical Analysis of the Cultural Eutrophication of
Lake Maxinkuckee, Indiana, was the first of its kind in the State and
contained the guidelines for saving our lake and restoring the beautiful
water we had enjoyed.  The Lake Maxinkuckee Environmental Council was formed
to implement the recommendations in the study and we have been working ever
since. 

We celebrated our 20th Anniversary in 2001.  In those 20 years we have
accomplished many projects to save the lake.  Three wetlands were
constructed to reduce the flow of nutrients and sediment into the lake.
Education campaigns are on-going to educate residents on the best way to
live around a lake and preserve its health.  Stormwater treatment units have
been installed in the Town of Culver to reduce the nutrient and sediment
loading in the stormwater runoff from the Town as well as many other smaller
projects.  We have an nice list of accomplishments under our belt, but we
are not finished yet. There are still areas of concern. Lake and watershed
management requires diligence and a long term commitment, a commitment the
residents of Lake Maxinkuckee renew each year in our fund drive.

In addition to the projects listed above we have cooperated with the DNR on
fish surveys and we had an aquatic vegetation survey conducted in 1999.  You
are correct in your observations that there are fewer aquatic plants than
decades ago, but that is not all bad.  Excessive weed growth is a sign of a
lake in danger, that too many nutrients are coming into the lake

Here is a quote from the aquatic vegetation survey we had conducted in 1999:

"The diversity of aquatic plants in the lake is typical of marl lakes of
Indiana.  Compared to the survey on 1991 several noteworthy changes are
evident in the aquatic plant flora.  The most pronounced change is the
decrease in abundance of Eurasian Milfoil that was far more widespread at
the time of the last survey. Eurasian Milfoil tends to prefer eutrophic
lakes, out-competing native species as nutrient loading increases."

While the reduction of Eurasian Milfoil is a good sign, we also recognize
there are not the same number of plants as before.  The Lake Maxinkuckee
Environmental Council is working to restore our lake by implementing best
management practices around the lake and in the watershed. We are also
educating lakeshore property owners on stewardship responsibility of being a
lake shore property owner.  When a lake is a good fishery, that means it is
experiencing good water quality.  We want to see the lake's fish habitat
thrive.  I have been told by many that Lake Maxinkuckee is a good sport
fishing lake. 

I am disappointed you had a bad encounter with one of the residents.  I have
never heard of any illegal chemical use and would not support it. I do
however support permited chemical use by a licensed applicator for the
control of invasive species.  Proper lake management has to include this
technique as a management tool to restore the native plants.

Please contact me if you would like more information or have more questions.

Sincerely,

Tina Hissong


--
Tina M. Hissong, Executive Director
Lake Maxinkuckee Environmental Fund, Inc.


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Offline stanton21

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #8 on: Feb 29, 2008, 01:57 AM »
What a Bull%%%% Letter,skiers from ill.rule.No mention of the zebra musel invasion..Somthing happened in the last 3 years.On the east side on the big flat there was good weed growth all the way to the top of the water..There killing the weeds so boaters with there 60 thousand dollor boats can cruse around...I say all the time..If there going to stock a lake with our license money we should have a say when applying for a permit to control weeds..DNR stop wasting our money,Max is a all sports lake.There are lakes east of here that are 10 mph lakes and there  the  best fishing lakes around with great catches with no end.Weed growth and beds are out standing.
We need to stand up and fight for what is right and stop big goverment runing our lives.I fight ever chance i get but we need  more people to voice there opinian.

Just my 3 cents.
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Offline Derslayer1

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #9 on: Feb 29, 2008, 05:58 AM »
It was less than 2 years ago, you could park on any weedline on either bass or Max.  Now....I can jig up the dead weedline with a jigrap, and its dead. There is still some weeds but good luck finding a big weedline. The timeframe I am talking about, you could drill a hole, after shooting it for weeds, drop a jig down, a pull GREENAGE out bigtime. I know this has been happening for quite some time but the last 2 years something happened. On bass, there are no more fields of green, same on max. I agree with Stanton, anglers monies go into stocking programs and lake enhancement, we SHOULD have a say in chemical spraying. Online letters to representatives, DNR, home owner associations and the like, fall on deaf ears.

Offline bret

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #10 on: Feb 29, 2008, 06:17 AM »
Munskyman,  What do you think?  What has your experience been with the DNR, lake property owners and the treatment of aquatic weeds?
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Offline abishop

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #11 on: Feb 29, 2008, 09:22 AM »
I agree the next time the council has their meeting to eliminate weedgrowth-we the fishermen need to be there so our voice can be heard. If no one is there to say NO they will be given whetever they want. Good article.

Offline wax_worm

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #12 on: Feb 29, 2008, 09:51 AM »
Not defending the lake association, but to hold that lady accountable for all the weed loss on Maxi is crazy.  Sounds like the lake association went thru the proper channels to get the permits.  The dnr is granting them becuase no one organizes an opposition.  Instead they b***h about it here on blog that does no good.  The permits that are granted are very specific as to what weeds and where they can be sprayed by licensed applicators.  They do not say kill all weeds in lake maxi!  I think what you are seeing are individuals doing their own weed kills and not getting caught.  If you know how, you can get SONAR and other weed killers.  It only takes a few minutes to kill alot of weeds with some of that stuff.  Until someone catches them doing it illegally, it will continue.

Also has the DNR done a study on Maxi recently and shown a decline in fish populations?  Just becuase you can't find them where your favorite weedbed used to be, does not mean they are not in the lake.  Lakes change and fish adapt...fishermen need to also.  Until an organized opposition is formed the weed kills will continue.

Offline abishop

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #13 on: Feb 29, 2008, 10:10 AM »
Lets organize/unionize get her dun. I am in say when and where.

Offline AlgaeKilla

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #14 on: Feb 29, 2008, 06:05 PM »
I don't know what you are calling "cabbage", but I can tell you that no aquatic herbicide kills true cabbage, Potamogeton richardsonii also known as Richardson's or clasped leaf pondweed. And the statement
the DNR could care less about what happens to Indiana lakes
is simply not true. Ed Braun of the Indiana Department of Natural Resources works closely with lake associations, licensed aquatic applicators, and yes fisherman to ensure that our native aquatic plants are  protected. He is known as the "Coontail King" for his efforts in preserving the good plants that grow naturally in our waters.
we should have a say
You do have a say. Get involved. Go to a freaking meeting. Ed and others frequently attends fishing club meeting to help educate and listen to the opinions of people like you. If you want to stand up and fight the power you'd better educate yourselves on what you really want. Eurasian water milfoil and curly leaf pondweed are plants that were introduced in America through the aquarium plant trade. These plants out compete native species and harm water quality. Be water quality I am speaking of ph levels, nutrient loading, dissolved oxygen levels, and predator prey relationships. Large scale "weed kills" are designed to target these invasive species and cause minimal damage to natives. The goal is to eradicate the weeds that out compete the good plants in order for the good plants to bounce back to there natural state. If you see a "total" lack of weeds it is likely because it can take up to a year for native species to regain there populations in suitable substrate that was over run by invasives. It is not likely due to people are illegally killing weeds. Yes anyone can purchase aquatic herbicides, but not every one can make them work. I guarantee no one is paying the $1,400 for a gallon of sonar and dumping it in on top of a weed bed. It simply wouldn't work. There are contact herbicides that are less expensive and require less exposure time, but even if used properly on Eurasian water milfoil the plant would only be burnt back and would regrow likely within a couple weeks. I don't like selfish property owner,jet skiers, and pleasure boaters any more than you do, but I do know that they're money doesn't control the DNR's lake management plans. i don't always agree with the DNR's decisions on lake management, but they do a great job a trying and despite popular opinion they,re main driving force is the opinions of those that purchase licenses along with their educations of biological matters.     
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Offline bret

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #15 on: Feb 29, 2008, 07:05 PM »
When you say "go to a meeting" ....what meetings are you talking about?  And the other question...what's a good way to get "educated"?  I assume you mean learning a little about aquatic weeds and how they affect our lakes, learning how/why the DNR treats our lakes and why the lake property owner's seem to have a louder voice than us fishermen/sportsmen?

BTW tell us a little about your expertise in this area.  Thanks
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Offline AlgaeKilla

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #16 on: Feb 29, 2008, 08:27 PM »
The meeting in question all depend on the individual lake. Some have fishing clubs meetings that DNR attend.  Most has lake associations. Maxi for example has an Envirnmental Council http://culverlmec.com/Pages/history.html as well as an association which actually has a message forum (they're home page is currently under constrution) http://genwiz.genealogenie.net/lake_maxkinkuckee/_forum/index.php?sid=457eb57263d0df9eed1866bb855ae784. You can also attend meeting held by or research some of these; Indiana Lake Management Society meetings http://www.indianalakes.org/,Water Agency Team for Enhanced Resources http://www.in.gov/indianalakes/sources/contacts/contact2.htmlMidwest Aquatic Plant Management Society http://www.mapms.org/, Aquatic Ecosystem Restoration Foundation http://www.aquatics.org/, office of Indiana State Chemists http://www.aquatics.org/, Center for Aquatic and Invasive Plants http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/, Lake and River Enhancement Program http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/lare/ and Indiana Lake Management Work Group to name but a few.

As for my "expertise". I'm in lake and pond management. I'm a licensed aquatic applicator. I build application equipment, selll, service, and install aeration systems, do plant and fish surveys. I am a member of IPLLA, MAPMS, ILMS, NAPMS, BASS, HMH, and Muskies Inc. I have attended many conferences attended by or put on by the IDNR.

And for those of you who think the lake property owners have more say so look and the Manitou issue. Do you really think the lake lot owners wanted to be restricted as to taking they're boats in and out of the lake. I don't think so. IDNR took action to protect our lakes from hydrilla (A weed that Florida spends 10 million dollars a year trying to control). Not so people could water ski, but so our native fish species could thrive and so our lakes don't look like this.
   
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Offline bret

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #17 on: Feb 29, 2008, 08:45 PM »
Thanks Ryan!
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Offline abishop

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #18 on: Mar 01, 2008, 10:06 AM »
I will wait until it is cleaned up a bit. Until then the crappies will have 2 wait.

Offline ispoman

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #19 on: Mar 01, 2008, 10:56 AM »
howcome they dont just rake the weeds out?

Offline AlgaeKilla

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #20 on: Mar 01, 2008, 11:31 AM »
Raking or mechanically harvesting hydrilla or Eurasian water milfoil results in spreading the population around. Both these invasives propagate by fragmentation. Bits and pieces of the plants will float around and take up root in new areas. As a matter of fact a single "hair" from a EWM leaf can be dried out for up to 7 days and will still grow into a complete plant if reintroduced into the water. This is why you will see the "Stop Aquatic Hitchhikers" signs at all public boat ramps, because the IDNR is taking the hydrilla threat very seriously. Because nothing was done when EWM was introduced 90% of our lakes and reservoirs now have it. In Minnesota, Wisconsin, and I believe Michigan you will be fined if caught "in possession" (on your boat trailer for example) of invasive weeds. Hopefully we as fisherman and boaters will do what we can to slow or stop the spread of fish and  habitat destroyers like hydrilla, zebra mussels, Asian carp, and VHS .
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Offline tarantula

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #21 on: Mar 01, 2008, 01:34 PM »
To get back on the subject at hand. As a lifetime member
to B.A.S.S. I recieve a newspaper type magazine called
B.A.S.S. Times. I want to say that a couple months ago
I in fact read an article about our beloved Lake Manitou.
Don't quote me, but I do remember them saying that it has
a total infestation of hydrilla. That also there would be a
weed kill on the lake. There was a restriction on fishing
except for people who lived on the lake. If you
were to load a boat onto the lake, it had to be inspected
after removal. Hydrilla is an invasive aquatic vegitation
therefore the purpose of the big weed kill off and stringent
inspections of watercraft.

In my opinion, I have learned more about invasive species
from B.A.S.S. Times than I have any other place. It is very
informational on how much us outsdoorsmen can actually
make a difference.

Offline AlgaeKilla

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #22 on: Mar 01, 2008, 02:04 PM »
BASS Times is a great newsletter.  Do you know if it is available to non members?  I have several customers that would be interested in the periodical, but are not BASS members.
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Offline wax_worm

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #23 on: Mar 02, 2008, 11:15 AM »
Bass Times in not available unless you are member of BASS.  Maybe contact BASS about getting copies of old issues.  If you tell them what it is for, they may be willing to part with issues that are 1 or 2 months old.

Offline musky8it

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #24 on: Mar 03, 2008, 06:15 AM »
I agree the next time the council has their meeting to eliminate weedgrowth-we the fishermen need to be there so our voice can be heard. If no one is there to say NO they will be given whetever they want. Good article.

You can't get into the lake associations meetings unless you own property on the lake. I imagine they send request to the DNR asking for permits, you never know when or what the request says. And, on Max., there is allot of political people who know what to do to get the request oked to kill the weeds....And I really feel that when, or if the DNR denies a weed kill request. That some lake owner slips out after dark and dumps in chemicals to kill weeds...I tired for a yr, emailing back and forth with the DNR. All I get is allot of double talk  and long explanations. Bottom line, it will take a politician who is a fisherman to stop it. But most aren't and they like their back pockets padded by lake associations. The DNR officials don't care, I really believe that!!!


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Offline musky8it

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Re: Lake Manitou.Near Rochester.Fulton County.
« Reply #25 on: Mar 03, 2008, 06:33 AM »
Not defending the lake association, but to hold that lady accountable for all the weed loss on Maxi is crazy.  Sounds like the lake association went thru the proper channels to get the permits.  The dnr is granting them because no one organizes an opposition.  Instead they b***h about it here on blog that does no good. 

Sorry, but you don't have a clue. I spent allot of time back in 2002. I argued and explained the fishermans case with the DNR and got no where....Below I will post some of the emails I got from the DNR investigator and Biologist. To post all of them would be a long list, so i will not post all of them....I also contacted the bait shop on HWY10 west of Bass lake I believe in Jan 2002, made up a petition and put it on their door. At least I tried!






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Offline musky8it

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Some emails I recieved from a DNR investigator
« Reply #26 on: Mar 03, 2008, 06:35 AM »
I'm not sure I follow your message. This bill (SB 230) would increase the restrictions on weed control in several ways. The bill would result in less weed control.
 
First, the area that a landowner can treat without even requesting a permit would be reduced. Currently, it is one-half of the vegetation or one-half acre, whichever is smaller. Under the bill, a resident can only eliminate vegetation in an area that is 625 sq ft (25 ft by 25 ft). This is significantly less weed control without a permit.
 
Second, there is currently no requirement for a permit for any methods of control other than chemical control. Anyone can use a weed harvester or release plant-eating insects to kill vegetation without a permit. Under the bill, these activities would require a permit.
 
Senator Meeks bill would allow the department to have more review over weed-control activities that are currently taking place without permits.


--------------------------------

Thank you for your response and further explanation of the situation. As
indicated, we are taking several steps to address the necessary balance
between aquatic plants and other uses of the lake.

Our records show that last year 2001, the DNR issued one permit for aquatic plant
control on Lake Maxinkuckee. It allowed use of chemicals to remove milfoil
and pondweeds from two channels on the south side of the lake (total of 2.3
acres). No permits have been issued for chemical control of aquatic plants
in Bass Lake, Starke County, since 1998. If you have evidence of a crime
being committed or witness an incident, please call the county sheriff so
the information can be referred to a DNR Conservation Officer for
investigation.

In shallow lakes like Bass Lake, power boating can also have a significant
negative impact on growth of aquatic plants. A law was passed last year that
allows the DNR to establish quiet zones on lakes for the purpose of
protecting aquatic plants. We are considering the most effective and
equitable use of these rules on several northern Indiana lakes.
Implementation of these kinds of rules requires the support of organized
lake residents and users. We continue to work with the district fisheries
biologist, LARE biologist, lake associations, and other interested residents
to see what can be done to improve the aquatic environment for fisheries and
other uses of Bass Lake and Lake Maxinkuckee.

As you state, it is difficult to eradicate invasive exotic weeds while
providing a suitable environment for regrowth of native plants. Research on
appopriate use of chemicals for selective control of aquatic plants is
ongoing. Lake Webster is an excellent example of a lake where Eurasian
milfoil had become so abundant as to deplete the rest of the plant
community. Use of low dose Sonar in a lake-wide treatment has brought much
of the milfoil under control and appears to be allowing regrowth of native
aquatic plants. The LARE program is working with the lake association to
fund an extensive survey of the aquatic plant diversity and growth in that
lake. The Fisheries Biologist has done tracking work with muskie there to
determine which areas of the lake are most used by muskie and potential
relationships with aquatic plants or other characteristics of the lake.

There are no simple answers to these problems. Every lake responds
differently to management. We welcome your participation in the public
process as we try to determine the best means of managing these lakes into
the future.

Gwen


--------------------------------

Thank you for your interest. I have also emailed Tina Hissong, of Lake Maxinkuckee, who may have additional historical information on the aquatic plants in that lake to send to you.
 
Gwen

--------------------------------



What is the DNR doing to address aquatic plant problems in northern Indiana
lakes, including Bass Lake and Lake Maxinkuckee? Your recent message
[appended below] to several programs within the DNR was forwarded to me for
a comprehensive response.

The Lake and River Enhancement Program (LARE) and Riverwatch Volunteer Water
Quality Monitoring program are administered by the DNR Division of Soil
Conservation. They provide funding for volunteer water quality monitoring in
streams, IDEM provides training for volunteer water quality monitoring in
lakes, and the LARE program conducts comprehensive studies of lake water
quality and aquatic plant management, followed by prescriptions of land,
water or plant management activities (such as wetland reconstruction or
shoreline stabilization) that improve lake quality.

Many lake associations and other groups of residents have participated in
the LARE program, including both Bass Lake and Lake Maxinkuckee.  If you are
very interested in working on lake issues, the program may be a good avenue
for continuing work at your lake.  To pursue further water quality
management projects, you may contact Jill Hoffmann, LARE biologist, at
[email protected]. Their information is also on the web at (click
the picture of a pink lily in the upper right to get more links for the
program): http://www.state.in.us/dnr/soilcons/lare.htm

On the issue of aquatic plant management, many people inside and outside the
agencies recognize the limitations of the older laws and rules that provide
regulation for aquatic plant management. Permits are issued by the Division
of Fish & Wildlife for treatment of small areas of exotic and invasive
plants that harm the native plant diversitiy and interfere with sound
fisheries management. We have to work within the context of those laws until
they are changed by the pressure of the people and legislature. 

Current law allows an individual to treat a rather extensive area of their
lakefront without a permit. Much of the change that you see in your lake may
be from individuals who are legally treating their frontage under a permit
exemption. While they are required by law to use chemicals that are approved
for aquatic use, we don't have enough law enforcement officers to have
someone there everytime a resident sprays their lakefront.  Like most other
laws, such as speeding in residential areas, legal compliance relies most
often on a sense of responsibility in the citizen.  When we are aware of
larger lake areas that look like they've been burned down by a chemical, the
Division of Law Enforcement pursues the situation.

There is a bill currently going through the state legislature that would
reduce the area of frontage that an individual resident is allowed to treat
without a permit. The bill unanimously passed the Senate on 1/24/02 and is
sponsored in the House by Representatives Adams and Kruse. If you would like
more information on this or any other bill, enter the bill number on the
following webpage:
http://www.state.in.us/serv/lsa_billinfo?year=2002&session=1&request=live

We are also working with lake associations to provide information to
residents about the critical importance of aquatic plants and plant
diversity.  The DNR Division of Nature Preserves is funding the first
comprehensive biological surveys of aquatic plants in northern Indiana lakes
by a professor from Purdue North Central.  At nearly every one of the recent
annual conferences of the Indiana Lakes Management Society (ILMS), leaders
of lake associations and any interested participants have learned how to
identify aquatic plants.  The next annual meeting will be at the Radisson
Hotel in Merrillville on April 5&6.  All lake residents interested in
improving management of their lake are welcome to attend.  Registration
information is available from Mark Mongin at 317-580-8299 or
[email protected].

A new publication from the DNR covers information on lake plant appreciation
and management.  I can send it to you in hard copy or you can download it
from the web by selecting the link "aquatic plants in Indiana lakes
brochure": http://www.state.in.us/dnr/soilcons/lare/plantcon.htm


The DNR does issue a number of permits for control of plants in lakes,
almost exclusively for the control of Eurasian watermilfoil.  This is a
nationwide problem, probably initiated by people dumping exotic plants from
their aquaria or outdoor ponds into local public waters. As far as I am
aware (and I now sign these permits), the DNR very rarely approves chemical
treatment of any emergent plants, including water lilies.  The Fisheries
Section and LARE program worked together with outside consultants to develop
an analyze a database of permits for chemical and target plants to determine
the extent of treatment and perceived problems on lakes.  A summary of this
project is available by selecting the links "invasion of Eurasian
watermilfoil" and "map of watersheds" on the internet at:
http://www.state.in.us/dnr/soilcons/lare/plantcon.htm


I have been in the boats with aquatic plant control companies as they apply
chemicals.  District fisheries biologists work with these companies to
maximize control of the invasive exotic plant Eurasian watermilfoil, while
minimizing the impact of the chemical on native species.  If Eurasian
milfoil is not controlled, the biodiversity of plants in our lakes will
continue to decrease until there is very little fish habitat or recreational
use left.  At this point in time, the only proven way to control the plant
is through chemicals.  The LARE program funded an experimental project last
year to test the use of weevils to control milfoil without chemicals.  This
project is in its second year and should be showing signs of success or
failure within the next 3-5 years.  A summary of this project is on the
internet at:
http://www.state.in.us/dnr/soilcons/lare/weevils.htm

So, I hope you can see that we are not ignoring these issues, and we
recognize the significant connections between aquatic plants and
fisheries--particularly muskellunge.  However, it's not going to be easy to
find the best combination of solutions for the multiple uses of our northern
Indiana lakes.

Gwen White, Ph.D.
Fisheries Program Specialist


--------------------------------

I apologize again for the initial misinformation. A state law enforcement officer is investigating this situation. I am providing him with copies of the permits that we have to assist him in this process.
 
The database that you searched is for Division of Water permits for shoreline alteration. Electronic data on plant control permits is not on the internet yet. They are issued out of this office. So, I suspect that you are not hearing from others at DNR because they know that I am corresponding with you about our permit file.
 
If you would provide me with a mailing address, I can send you copies of all permits that we have on file for Bass and Maxinkuckee Lakes since the early 1990s. What you refer to as the "south basin" is the area I was calling the "west basin." The permits have maps showing the areas of the lakes to be treated.
 
I talked to Mr. Scott Shuler of Aquatic Control by telephone on Friday. They conducted the treatment at Bass Lake according to the permit they held in 2000. There was also a herbicide treatment and permit in 1998 but not in 1999. He indicated that they have not treated, and there have been no permits issued, since 2000. They do not plan to treat there during the summer of 2002.
 
The chemical used was a low dosage of Navigate (2,4-D) to selectively remove Eurasian watermilfoil. There were few if any native species in those areas. Most treatment was 300-400 feet offshore to remove exotic weeds that interfere with boating and eliminate native plant diversity. Only one area along a dock was treated as close as 100 feet from shore. No areas immediately near the shore were treated. The area treated appears large, but is only about 10 percent of the total surface area of the lake.
 
I can also send you information on the biological impacts of Navigate (2,4-D) which is the granular chemical used for treatment. According to Purdue University, "the granular ester formulations are much less hazardous to fish than are the liquid ester formulations." This is because the granules sink to the bottom of the lake where fish are less likely to contact the product and uptake by plants through their roots is more efficient. Purdue also states that "most herbicides are nontoxic to fishes when properly applied at recommended rates. Fish kills are more likely to occur when excessive amounts of vegetation are treated, then decompose, resulting in oxygen depletion." The EPA spec. label describing ecological safety and MSDS sheets on human safety can be accessed from the following webpage: http://www.appliedbiochemists.com/navigatefs.html
 
If you wish to ask the lake management company about more detailed description of the methods and reasons for treatment, their telephone number is 812-497-2410 or [email protected].
 
As with any DNR permit or location, any member of the public can request information on the permit application and submit comments regarding the state's response. If a permit is requested for treatment at either of these two lakes this summer, I would be glad to send you a copy of the application and allow a 15-day public comment period. During that time, you may recommend conditions to be placed on the activities or suggest that the DNR deny the permit. These comments are coordinated through the Trilakes Fisheries Station, 5570 N. Fish Hatchery Road, Columbia City, IN  46725, tel. 219-691-3181 or you may send them directly to Bob Robertson, the District Fisheries Biologist for that area, or to me.
 
Finally, if you wish to organize a meeting, I would be willing to come up to Bass Lake or another location of your choice to meet with you and any other interested individuals to discuss aquatic plant management strategies and the DNR permit process.

Gwen
 
Gwen White, Ph.D.
Fisheries Program Specialist


FRANK SINATRA, The Hangover Survival Guide

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."

Offline musky8it

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email from DNR Bioligist Bob Robertson in 2002
« Reply #27 on: Mar 03, 2008, 06:39 AM »
I agree with you concerning the relatively few aquatic plants that are found in Bass Lake.  I have lived near Bass and Maxinkuckee for the last 35 years while serving as the district fisheries biologist for north-west Indiana (currently 16 counties).  I have spent hundreds of hours working on both lakes, and probably even more time fishing, swimming, boating, and sailing on these two lakes.  However, at least over the last 35 years, Bass Lake has never had much aquatic vegetation.

 Recently, the majority of vegetation we see at Bass Lake is the invasive, non-native Eurasian millfoil that has become a major problem at many midwestern lakes.  While some E. millfoil is also found at Maxinkuckee, the majority of the plants there are native species.  Over the years very little weed control has been done at either lake.  While a large treatment for E. millfoil was done at Bass a few years ago, little chemical control has been done on an annual basis.  On Lake Maxinkuckee, most of the chemical control has been confined to just a couple of the channels at the south end of the lake.

Over the years these two lakes have experienced changes, but I don't think chemical weed control has played a major or adverse role at either lake.  At the very shallow Bass Lake, I believe that large motors and increased boat traffic has more to do with the presence or absence of aquatic vegetation than many people are willing to admit.  At most lakes in our state, the "idle zone" extends from the shore out to 200 feet.  The law actually states that boats are not even allowed to operate (except for trolling) in this area unless they are going to or from a dock.  At Bass lake this zone has been legally extended to 350 feet.  Protection of this area of  our public lakes should help keep sediments from being stirred up, protect spawning areas, provide safety for swimmers, and allow vegetation to develop.

A new law may allow the DNR to further protect some areas of the lake by prohibiting all boat traffic within a special defined zone.  We are currently looking at that new law to see if any lakes in our district (including Bass and Maxinkuckee) could benefit from a closure of a small bay, wetland, etc.  We are still concerned with E. millfoil wherever it exists because it tends to crowed out many more desirable native species.  This plant also spreads by fragmentation.  When boat action rips and cuts these plants they float around to other parts of the lake where they take root and establish a new bed.  We still feel that some chemical control of E. millfoil is a good idea and will help keep the plants from spreading.

I have heard many good comments about the fishing at both Bass and Maxinkuckee.  Walleye stocking programs that the DNR started at both lakes back in the 80's have been well received.  A perch fishing friend of mine from Culver said that last year was one of the best for perch that he can remember.  This fellow is retired and has fished at Maxinkuckee most of his adult life.  Tournament fishermen continue to flock to Maxinkuckee.  One of the biggest complaints we get from Maxinkuckee fishermen is that we need to have a larger public access site.  We continue to try to find another site, but property is expensive and we still have not found a willing seller. Our last creel survey (fisherman harvest) conducted at Bass Lake showed a harvest of over 8,000 crappie of up to 14 inches in length.  Fishermen report that last year's walleye catch has also greatly improved in both numbers and size.

We continue to value both Bass and Maxinkuckee as two of the most important lakes in this district.  Both lakes have received a lot of our time and attention in the past, and both lakes will continue to receive this attention in the future.  Again this spring, the DNR will stock walleye into both of these lakes, and we will continue to look for more access to Maxinkuckee.


FRANK SINATRA, The Hangover Survival Guide

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."

Offline musky8it

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All lakes go through natural aging processes, I believe its called eutrophication. The stage that Maxinkuckee is in, is between Oligotrophic and Mesotrophic. That's where the lake is fairly clear and the sediment in the lake is very little to average. The last stage of a lake aging is called Eutrophic. That is where the lake is very shallow,it has murky water, and sediments have filled in the basin of the lake. By nature, it takes thousands of years to go from the first stage to the last. Man  causes Eutrophication to rapidly increase. With all mans pollutants and waste, lakes age very fast. The nutrients and weeds is not what is causes lakes to age quickly!!!!!!  If the nutrients in the water are taken away, all you have left is an infertile lake. And that is what is happening to Maxinkuckee. It is going backwards to the Oligotrophic stage where it is infertile. That is the type of lake the lake owners want. Where the fish and weeds are all gone!! That way they can run their expensive boats all over the lake without having to steer clear of the fishing boats.
 
Sure the DNR is going along with what you are doing. That's because the DNR don't have to pay for the weed killing. The lake owner are playing for it. Plus the lake owner want all the weeds gone. And there are state politicians that have summer homes on the lake. Answer this question. Do you fish or are you just one of the many lake side owners who just like to water ski or jet ski? I am felling that you are probably the later of the 2. I feel that is what your group is all about. You are for only the boaters and jet skiers and not the fishermen !! 
 
Mark my word, The fisherman of this state are taking back the lakes !!!!!   There is to many environmental groups out there that will fight the things that are being done to our lakes !!!  Let nature take its course. When man interferes, he screws up nature and that is bad news. If what is being done keeps at the pace it is going. Maxinkuckee in 100yrs, will only have pleasure boats on it. Because all the fish will have dyed out for lack of oxygen,nutrients, and pollutants!!!


FRANK SINATRA, The Hangover Survival Guide

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."

Offline musky8it

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Bottom line, you can fight lawyers and politicians
« Reply #29 on: Mar 03, 2008, 07:15 AM »
I tried and I got no where. You can't fight bureaucrats and politicians. And many of them own around Max., and they are not fisherman. I don't have the funds or the knowledge. The people killing all the weeds do. They can talk circles around regular fisherman like myself. With their long explanations as to why they needed to kill the weeds. More or less they are saying they are trying to make the lake better and cleaner. Well, cleaner is right. They have killed all the good weeds while they where treating the bad weeds....Therefore making a cleaner lake to run their Big Buck boats on.


FRANK SINATRA, The Hangover Survival Guide

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day."

 



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