ice shantys on river

[golden eyes]

hey gator whats the fine for leaving ice shelters up on the river?i see there is 3 that are not going to make it home from cil,
also what do the nro do ,go out there and burn them down or what?

[gatorhunter]

hey gator whats the fine for leaving ice shelters up on the river?i see there is 3 that are not going to make it home from cil,
also what do the nro do ,go out there and burn them down or what?

Our normal course would be to go out and hopefully find evidence of ownership.  Seize the shacks as evidence and investigate.  The conditions right now are totally unknown due to the weather and ice cutting efforts.  We're checking it out first thing in the morning to decide what we'll do.

All shacks are still private property so anyone who tampers with them could be considered for legal action!  Because they have passed the removal date, we have the authority to seize them.

[Big Dog]

burn them, every one has had there chance to remove them.

[Fish Camp 24-7]

A few NRO trucks there today and the shacks were pulled up on the shore?

[flat liner]

Burning them is not good.Someone burnt one down this last week at Chalet beach,what a mess.These are the people that make us all look bad that have perminant shacks.Maybe it was vandals but still,clean up the mess.Push it all together and finish it off.

[golden eyes]

ya i seen that one burnt down .it was like that last wensday.dont know if someone lit it up or just a accident after the owner had left ice fishing.its too bad never the less.it looked like it was a newer shack to.i cant believe the nro would take there trucks out on the river to haul those shacks in?well kudos for them for doing so.

[flat liner]

i saw that shack the saturday before and it did look fairly new,had some nice skis under it.Maybe fishing was so bad they figured it was time to cut their losses and run.

[golden eyes]

thats too bad i would of bought it if that was the case(cut losses)i went by and    did not see no stove ,i seen the pipes there just wondering if the stove walked away on its own or melted in the intense heat.would of been a show if it happened at night out there.i seen from where we were toward the mouth mid day heavy black smoke that way,anyone know anything about that on       sunday when the nros came onto the ice and sort of went that way.just wondering if it was another shack?

[Fish Camp 24-7]

ya i seen that one burnt down .it was like that last wensday.dont know if someone lit it up or just a accident after the owner had left ice fishing.its too bad never the less.it looked like it was a newer shack to.i cant believe the nro would take there trucks out on the river to haul those shacks in?well kudos for them for doing so.

Sorry, should have had a little more detail. The trucks were parked by CIL and it looked like a couple quads were used. No trucks on the ice.

[gatorhunter]

Sorry, should have had a little more detail. The trucks were parked by CIL and it looked like a couple quads were used. No trucks on the ice.

That's better!  Plus we had Richard Cloutier from CJOB out there to see the disaster left by permanent shelters.

[KIWICO]

That's better!  Plus we had Richard Cloutier from CJOB out there to see the disaster left by permanent shelters.

and how many tickets were handed out this year for littering?

[gatorhunter]

and how many tickets were handed out this year for littering?

Same as usual!  ZERO! That's because we can't catch the people who do it!  It's not littering until someone leaves their junk behind after they leave.  Once they're gone, and we haven't seen them or nobody reports them, then there is nothing that can be done.

People know that they shouldn't leave all that garbage behind but they don't care!  That's an attitude or mentality that no amount of enforcement will ever cure!

[hoghammer]

Every time we went out this year we brought home garbage that someone else left on the ice. A couple of people we took out this year thought that me and my cousin were anal for picking up garbage. We did not take them out with us again. I like the one on the radio this morning. The person left a legacy of bud light cans around his shack. He had one hole in the shack, fishing was not the reason the person was out there.

[hoghammer]

gatorhunter

Is that you in the picture on cjob?

[zeus]

Hi all....... I am not sure whether or not is the law to have, NAME ADDRESS & TEL. ON ALL perms. But nonetheless it is a requirement, as stated. in the book.
Would it not be possible for those that do comply.Have details  recorded.  (That is possible now we are in the age of digital cameras). It has been done, as we all know to highlight the discusting state of the RED.
As with notices of ice breaking etc.......... If a shack owner has not complied, and painted on the shack the required info. "STICK" a notice on the shack. giving owner "x" number of days to comply, or it will be removed. Reason beeing none compliance with supplying required info.
This could be done as soon as shacks start appearing on the ice. untill the required removal date.

Just one persons opinion.  zeus.

[KIWICO]

The gov't should come up with a "licence to park permanent shelter on ice" , Make the fee 100.00 now if you have 500 shacks on the red at 100 bucks a pop thats 50 grand. I know the hundred bucks wont stop people from leaving their garbage but 50 grand could easily pay to hire someone to clean it up plus have some extra money to educate people on how much the fine will be if they do get caught, It is a win win situation. Clean river, education, money, how can you go wrong? Look at it the same way you look at the snowpass, people dont agree with it but you still have to pay.. You want to play you got to pay. Split the 100 bucks with 4 people and its almost less than a 12 pack.

It would work. 

[michianafisherman]

They would find another way to spend the money. Then they would get use to it and expect to have the money in their budget every year. The next thing you know it would cost you 200 bucks to put out a shanty.

[J-Kap]

The gov't should come up with a "licence to park permanent shelter on ice" , Make the fee 100.00 now if you have 500 shacks on the red at 100 bucks a pop thats 50 grand. I know the hundred bucks wont stop people from leaving their garbage but 50 grand could easily pay to hire someone to clean it up plus have some extra money to educate people on how much the fine will be if they do get caught, It is a win win situation. Clean river, education, money, how can you go wrong? Look at it the same way you look at the snowpass, people dont agree with it but you still have to pay.. You want to play you got to pay. Split the 100 bucks with 4 people and its almost less than a 12 pack.

It would work. 

So if I am going to pay 100 bucks (like the sno man pass) I would expect the government maintain the access points and maintain ice roads through the shanty towns so people can get around without getting stuck etc.  Maybe they can even provide garabage bins around the shantys too while they are at it.  Just my two cents.  Or 100 bucks as the case may be.

[gatorhunter]

gatorhunter

Is that you in the picture on cjob?

No but I took the photo!

[maw31]

gatorhunter

Is that you in the picture on cjob?

do you work for cjob?

[KIWICO]

So if I am going to pay 100 bucks (like the sno man pass) I would expect the government maintain the access points and maintain ice roads through the shanty towns so people can get around without getting stuck etc.  Maybe they can even provide garabage bins around the shantys too while they are at it.  Just my two cents.  Or 100 bucks as the case may be.

I wouldnt concider CIL a proper access point but more of a ditch going down to river... The acess point would be at Selkirk park down the boat launch. I do like the idea of providing 45 gallon drums for garbage around like they do in the summer on shore, This would work. I'm telling you 50 grand would go a long way! Even at lake winnipeg, lets say Chalet beach, have a bin or 2 right at the edge of the ice for people to put their garbage in, christ put a recycle bin for everyone empties ...Why not... But it is a very fesable idea.. Andre whats your take on this ? (and dont shoot it down just because I posted it lolololol J/K) 

[gatorhunter]

Some of the problems with a permit and fee system have already been identified.  These comments have been raised in discussions.  A park or camping fee actually gets you some access and site maintenance.  Rest rooms, garbage facilities and pick up.  All this exists because there is a decades old system in place with infrastructure, permanent and seasonal programs and staff.

No such program exists for ice fishing shelters or any other shelter permanent or portable placed on ice for recreational purpose.

Malcolm, we have been posting notices on permanent shelters for approximately 5 years.  On this notice we identify that contact information must be on the shelter, all materials related to the shelter must be removed when the shack is moved or removed.  The sad news is VERY FEW PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THESE RULES AND TAKE NO MEASURES TO COMPLY WITH THESE RULES OR OTHERS RELATED TO THE UTILIZATION OF PERMANENT ICE FISHING SHELTERS!  

We've had all kinds of run ins with people who have several years of our staples on their shelters.  Every year, people ignore this requirement.  One in particular still didn't put the owner contact information on the shelter after the 4th year of posting!  

Even posting a name and contact information on the shelter means nothing as shacks pass from one owner to another and the new owner does not put his name on it.  They are made available to friends and family, left open for other users or fear of being vandalized if locked.  As stated on the radio this morning, people black out their information to keep us from tracking them down for leaving their shack or garbage.

The number of transgressers is not a MINORITY BUT HUGE MAJORITY!  I believe that this is the number one reason why there is no Red River angling community support to resolving this issue.  Too many people doing the same thing so they aren't going to report others for doing the same thing.

This whole issue is not about angling or getting together with friends and family for a day of fun on the ice.  All this can and is being done by thousands of Manitoba anglers who have bought into the benefits of portable shelters.  These people then take their shelters back home to be utilized another day.  No vandalism, no thefts, no univited occupants, no issues!

Permies are party places, first and foremost!  That has been evidenced by on site contacts and observations of their remnants.  They exist because of perceived convenience and comfort.  If they truly existed for angling purposes they would not exist.  Any one who fishes the Red River knows that you have to find the fish, not set up in a small city and wait for fish to come to them.  How many posts from permy anglers state that they fished all day and got a couple saugers.  Those who come to fish, come with portables!  More often than not they post fishing success.

CIL road access is actually on private property!  The property owner has opened himself to liability issues by allowing people to enter.  It would be in his best interests to close off that access.

Garbage bins would work!  However, there again you need a program, staff, equipment, MONEY!  People would fill up the bins but the materials left by permanent shelter users would not be reduced.  These shacks are removed with trucks and trailers so there is room for their blocks, garbage, pallets, etc.  However, that stuff is left behind....including the 5 gallon pail 3/4 full of human waste!  It's a mentality and an attitude!  No amount of education and enforcement can fix a problem that is huge in scope!  

[gatorhunter]

do you work for cjob?

HUH?  Three of us were with Richard Cloutier, I took some photographs and sent some to him for his article.  He was representing us in our quest to resolve an issue that affect's Manitobans!

[KIWICO]

""""However, that stuff is left behind....including the 5 gallon pail 3/4 full of human waste!  It's a mentality and an attitude!  No amount of education and enforcement can fix a problem that is huge in scope!""""""""""


Thats insane!!!!! You do make a good point that the majority of people are there to party it up, not fish.. I agree 100% I dont have a permanent shack I use a clam portable as  I like to move around and not be 6 feet away from some elses shack. I do think there is a better solution out there other than these people need to get some class and clean up after themselves. How many shacks (roughly ) were on the red and lake W this year? Even at 1000 shacks though at 100 bucks each thats 100 grand! Surely some sort of not for profit program could be established with minimal man power, one could contract out the garbage clean up and bin pick up.(good business opprtunity here kids lol) The honest fisherman wouldnt have a problem contribiting to this program its the ones who create the problem that would have the problem... This would be a great university study for someone!!!!!!

[zeus]

Andre'

Believe me when I say I am neither, for/against perm shacks. I own a portable. Neither was I aware of the the volume of violations  beeing committed inside them (till a couple of weeks ago).  
 My post was intended to point out a solution to the, irresponsible owners that litter the ice, torch shacks, etc, And stick two fingers up to most caring/responsible Anglers, and society as a whole.
 I'm done on this now. Good luck. M  

[maw31]

I do like the idea of providing 45 gallon drums for garbage around like they do in the summer on shore, This would work. I'm telling you 50 grand would go a long way! Even at lake winnipeg, lets say Chalet beach, have a bin or 2 right at the edge of the ice for people to put their garbage in, christ put a recycle bin for everyone empties ...Why not... But it is a very fesable idea..

I agree 100% Kiwico. I like the idea of putting garbage bins on the lake(s)/rivers to, but I'm thinking this would cost the government to much $$$, that's why they are not doing it. This is what I personally think....

[fishncamp]

More steel drums on the river in winter means more burning barrels.....Andre is correct that more anglers are getting portables and are leaving the "villages" to fish elsewhere. I had a permy since the mid 80's and got a portable five years ago and have seen the changes too. There are messes along the riverbanks in the summer too even with barrels. 
The pictures are proof that there really is a problem .

[HighlandGlen Guide]

charging people would never work, first of all people wouldnt pay and the government would never set up the program to do the clean up...in my opinion....so i have to ask, andre, is there any talk of banning permanent shacks...if people cant clean up after themselves then why not ban them...i do realize that some people that have permies do clean up, but if it is such a big problem, then ban them. i own a portable and drive by cil everytime i go to selkirk and cant believe the crap people leave behing...and a 3/4 pail full of ....is f...ing ignorant, everybody says fisherman are supposed to be better people, when it comes to this type of stuff but obviously they arent

[flat liner]

I have a perminent shack and every time I'm out a tent or people out on the ice leave a mess because they are just there for the day,they are the problem.sure some of the perminents make a mess but they can be caught and should be.This year a tent blow apart so the guy left it there.Someone even left a deer hide in the wind drift next to one big beautiful perminent shack.That stuff makes us all look bad.

[golden eyes]

i think the people that want to try and charge for per mi shacks should get there head out of the ice.i have a shack and its nice for the whole family to go out on a weekend to the river or the lake for the day.it was never about seeing how many fish that we can bring home it was enjoying a great time with family and friends.true there is some that like to go out and party it up but dont ever say to ban shacks or charge for permits.next time you see someone littering go and say something or take the plate down and report it.stop whining and do something.better yet be a great Manitoba and pick it up.the last thing we need is to start charging more fees holy Christ dont we have enough already.if you think another fee would just look at the million upon million hunting industries that we once had.o that's right we have not learned from our past mistakes.