IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
Ice Fishing Tips -Check your local regulations! => Equipment => Topic started by: LoneWolf on Feb 22, 2018, 05:37 PM
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In another thread I had posted how I couldn't find the Flame King kit for refilling the 1 lb canisters and I decided to make my own. This is just what I did and I'm not suggesting anyone else should.
I ordered three parts online. A hose, a shut off valve and a 1 lb canister adapter. The hose is 20" long with one end that goes to the large tank and the other is a male 1/4" threaded NPT. The brass ball valve is a double female 1/4" NPT that is rated for gas and water. The canister adapter is a male 1/4" NPT and female for the canister. I simply put it together using a gas and water rated sealant on the threads.
(http://ultraimg.com/images/2018/02/22/nRkC.jpg)
The next thing I did was to get a schrader valve tool and alter it to work on the pressure relief valve. I removed the pressure relief valve to see exactly what it is and decide how I wanted to relieve pressure while filling. Most people seem to be pulling up on the pin in the valve to relieve canister pressure. This is a safe method as the valve pressure is pre set at the factory and you don't want to alter it.
Tool
(http://ultraimg.com/images/2018/02/22/nRkL.jpg)
Pressure Relief Valve
(http://ultraimg.com/images/2018/02/22/nRkN.jpg)
I decided to go another route. I took 4 new, untouched canisters and decided to see how consistent the depth of the valve sat in the canister. I know it would go by spring pressure (not depth) to give the valve the correct resistance or pressure to release. I seated the tool on the first canisters valve and marked it. I compared that to the other three canisters and they were identical. I now had a depth gauge for proper spring tension.
I set everything up on my WorkMate. The large tank on top with the hose attached and the smaller 1 lb sat perfectly on the foot rest. I opened the valve on the large tank leaving the ball valve on the hose closed. I opened the pressure relief valve slightly and then opened the ball valve. I opened the pressure relief valve until I heard pressure releasing. The 1 lb tank took about a minute or so to fill. When I saw liquid coming from the relief valve I closed the ball valve and then the pressure relief valve. I removed the canister from the hose. I checked the valve height. Then I weighed it. I did 4 canisters today and it worked great. Also all the canisters came within tenths of an oz of full. If the Flame King kit were available I probably would have just purchased that but this worked great and was easy to work with.
(http://ultraimg.com/images/2018/02/22/nRki.jpg)
(http://ultraimg.com/images/2018/02/22/nRkh.jpg)
(http://ultraimg.com/images/2018/02/22/nRk9.jpg)
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In my flame king kit, says not to leave 20# tank upside down for more than i think 10 minutes at a time
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In my flame king kit, says not to leave 20# tank upside down for more than i think 10 minutes at a time
It must have something to do with the safety valve. ???
The weight I used to check the refilled canisters was just under 2 lbs. I had checked 4 brand new Coleman canisters and the full weight was an average of 1 lb 15.2 ounces.
The past few years I had been using the Mac adapter and couldn't get the canisters past 2/3 full even when freezing the bottles. This is a much more efficient process.
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I like the set screw on the flame king tanks, like a 500 gallon tank, when it comes out it’s full!
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I agree with you about the Flame King kit. As I said I was trying to get it. If it had come in on any of the numerous due in dates I was told I would have been using that.
It doesn't matter now as I am happy with this set up .. it works and works easily. I now have a dozen full and weighed 1 lb canisters ready to go.
By the way I also used soap and water to make sure of no leaks.
Do you weigh your canisters ? I remember reading by overfilling them you can increase the pressure especially on warm days.
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I wanted to get the flame king refill kit too.they are hard to find.plus recalls for leaks that could lead to explosions.im still refilling the little green bombs.seem to be the same hazards with both basically.i will get the flame king kit with 4 bottles as soon as they come up for sale.
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Recalled as the brass where screwed into tank was not tight, replaced or paid back owners. I’m still waiting for mine. I had one good one and one bad. I been using the good one and love it , easy to fill. Supposed to start selling them again shortly !!
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Recalled as the brass where screwed into tank was not tight, replaced or paid back owners. I’m still waiting for mine. I had one good one and one bad. I been using the good one and love it , easy to fill. Supposed to start selling them again shortly !!
. Gills, would you start a post when they do start to sell them again?
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Sure will, probably after they ship out all backorders, hopefully soon I’ll let u guys know
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Thanks!
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In another thread I had posted how I couldn't find the Flame King kit for refilling the 1 lb canisters and I decided to make my own. This is just what I did and I'm not suggesting anyone else should.
I ordered three parts online. A hose, a shut off valve and a 1 lb canister adapter. The hose is 20" long with one end that goes to the large tank and the other is a male 1/4" threaded NPT. The brass ball valve is a double female 1/4" NPT that is rated for gas and water. The canister adapter is a male 1/4" NPT and female for the canister. I simply put it together using a gas and water rated sealant on the threads.
(http://ultraimg.com/images/2018/02/22/nRkC.jpg)
The next thing I did was to get a schrader valve tool and alter it to work on the pressure relief valve. I removed the pressure relief valve to see exactly what it is and decide how I wanted to relieve pressure while filling. Most people seem to be pulling up on the pin in the valve to relieve canister pressure. This is a safe method as the valve pressure is pre set at the factory and you don't want to alter it.
Tool
(http://ultraimg.com/images/2018/02/22/nRkL.jpg)
Pressure Relief Valve
(http://ultraimg.com/images/2018/02/22/nRkN.jpg)
I decided to go another route. I took 4 new, untouched canisters and decided to see how consistent the depth of the valve sat in the canister. I know it would go by spring pressure (not depth) to give the valve the correct resistance or pressure to release. I seated the tool on the first canisters valve and marked it. I compared that to the other three canisters and they were identical. I now had a depth gauge for proper spring tension.
I set everything up on my WorkMate. The large tank on top with the hose attached and the smaller 1 lb sat perfectly on the foot rest. I opened the valve on the large tank leaving the ball valve on the hose closed. I opened the pressure relief valve slightly and then opened the ball valve. I opened the pressure relief valve until I heard pressure releasing. The 1 lb tank took about a minute or so to fill. When I saw liquid coming from the relief valve I closed the ball valve and then the pressure relief valve. I removed the canister from the hose. I checked the valve height. Then I weighed it. I did 4 canisters today and it worked great. Also all the canisters came within tenths of an oz of full. If the Flame King kit were available I probably would have just purchased that but this worked great and was easy to work with.
(http://ultraimg.com/images/2018/02/22/nRki.jpg)
(http://ultraimg.com/images/2018/02/22/nRkh.jpg)
(http://ultraimg.com/images/2018/02/22/nRk9.jpg)
As somebody who's worked in the propane field for 13 years, while I commend your ingenuity on this rig, it is (or has the potential to be)inherently dangerous.
Ethyl mercaptan is the odorizing agent added to propane to give it the "smell". It's an oily messy additive, heavier than the lpg itself and in time, settles to the bottom of any LPG cylinder.
This oily crap also picks up any scale or rust inside the tank (they are just bare steel inside)... where it also settles to the bottom. This oily crap does NOT vaporize every time you empty the cylinder, it collects in the bottom as it cannot vaporize.
Depending on the age of the cylinder you're using as the bulk tank to fill the smaller ones, a lot of this gunk can accumulate.
You turn your bulk tank upside down to fill, stirring up this stuff and being heavier than the propane liquid, it settles to the bottom (now the top (valve) area of the tank.
Open the bulk valve, and all that scale and oily crud is getting pushed through the bulk valve, collecting on the valve seat, then coating the inside of the supply hose, the shut off valve and finally the valve seat on the one pound cylinder, plus pressure has pushed some of this crud into your one pound tank.
Before I go any farther, you can add "moisture" to the list of gunk in the tanks. Since the tanks are sealed and under pressure, moisture will not evaporate. A fair amount of LPG is stored in underground caverns, subject to any groundwater contamination, any water or additional moisture introduced while traveling through the pipeline, transport trucks, etc.
Water weighs approximately 8 pounds per gallon, LPG weighs 4.24 pounds per gallon, so the water is gonna go to the bottom (until you turn that bulk cylinder upside down) Guess where it's going now?
The control valves have pretty precise springs and such to allow the (clean) lpg vapor to pass through. The pilot orifice has a hole to let the gas vapor through just about the diameter of a human hair, the burner orifice(s) aren't much bigger.
I'm not saying you ever will have an issue, and am not knocking in any way what you're posting or what you've done to fill those little one pounders, I'm just posting a quick lesson to explain what "could" happen, even with those supposedly "safe to refill" one pounders.
Forewarned is forearmed, gents. Be safe.
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I mean it esox thanks for the insight. I learned something again today. ;)
I wonder if that is the reason , as Gills-only stated , that you should only leave the tank upside down for ten minutes. ???
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Esox,
Great post and great info. Thanks. Just a follow-up question on the topic.
It seems that the Flame King refillable kit would have exactly the same concerns as the system designed by Lone Wolf. As I understand it, the Flame King is certified and approved as "safe."
Does the "special valve" on the Flame King somehow eliminate the problems you describe?
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great info!
seems as tho you could clean them out by removing the pressure relief valve and shoot air in it at the fill port keeping the relief port facing down. you could also add some thin oil and cover the walls and rinse that out too.
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Esox,
Great post and great info. Thanks. Just a follow-up question on the topic.
It seems that the Flame King refillable kit would have exactly the same concerns as the system designed by Lone Wolf. As I understand it, the Flame King is certified and approved as "safe."
Does the "special valve" on the Flame King somehow eliminate the problems you describe?
I don't have an answer to that question, would have to research the valve and see whats special about it...
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Thank you. I would appreciate any insight you might have.
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After reading the info Slayer provided seems to me the logical thing to do would be to tip the 20lb over about 155 or 160 degrees instead of 180. As long as you are using a fairly full tank you should still be getting liquid. Also always tip the tank from the same side so you never let the valve get to the bottom of the tank. That should at least reduce the risk of getting some of the debris into your 1lber. I would also make some type of stand or bracket to keep the 20lb tank secure in that position so it can't be knocked over accidentally while you are filling.
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Just rambling, but how about tipping the 20 pounder upside down for several hours? Then purging a small amount of propane (outside of course) before you begin the process of filling the one pound bottles. Wouldn't that get rid of the gunk that has settled near the valve?
⫸<{{{{{ ⦇°>
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seems as tho you could clean them out by removing the pressure relief valve and shoot air in it at the fill port keeping the relief port facing down. you could also add some thin oil and cover the walls and rinse that out too.
Good idea but it wouldn't work. If I remember correctly when I removed the PRV it sat in what I'll call a tube with a hole at the bottom. If you look at the picture of the PRV the stem on the bottom appeared to go through the hole and the "O" ring sealed against the bottom of the tube. I don't know how it is on the fill valve. I cannot check as I don't have any empties .. all my bottles have been filled already.
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this is great info, thanks so much !
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Good idea but it wouldn't work. If I remember correctly when I removed the PRV it sat in what I'll call a tube with a hole at the bottom. If you look at the picture of the PRV the stem on the bottom appeared to go through the hole and the "O" ring sealed against the bottom of the tube. I don't know how it is on the fill valve. I cannot check as I don't have any empties .. all my bottles have been filled already.
yep i see it now that you pointed it out. thanks. might be able to go the other way around.
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yep i see it now that you pointed it out. thanks. might be able to go the other way around.
When I have an empty I will check it out and post back here.
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Anybody seeing the flame king kits available yet..been waiting for almost a year...guess ill still refill the little green bombs again this year.
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Jay, Home Depot has the kits and the tanks.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flame-King-1-lb-Refillable-Propane-Cylinder-with-Refill-Kit-YSN1LBKT/305539519
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flame-King-1-lb-Refillable-Propane-Cylinder-YSN164/305539511
I expect them to come down in price as time goes on, but can’t say for sure.
DN
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That’s a good price in the one pound tanks at the depot !!
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Jay, Home Depot has the kits and the tanks.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flame-King-1-lb-Refillable-Propane-Cylinder-with-Refill-Kit-YSN1LBKT/305539519
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flame-King-1-lb-Refillable-Propane-Cylinder-YSN164/305539511
I expect them to come down in price as time goes on, but can’t say for sure.
DN
sweet! going to get a few next week.some of my disposable tanks are getting pretty rusty.thanks DN
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Yes thanks DN
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The only thing right in your posting "may" be the 600 WOG valve. The Type 1 hose assembly and the fact you are transferring "liquid" propane inside a building (garage) will not remove your liability if an incident should arise by you or any individual who followed what you show in your post (remember children read these posts too).
Key facts about propane;
1) It is a colorless,tasteless, odorless gas that has an odorant added to it.
2) Odorant can fade and will not leave the tank at the same rate as propane hence, why low & empty tanks stink more.
3) Propane is heavier than air and can accumulate in explosive quantities inside buildings and low areas
4) It only takes 3 milli-joules of static energy to ignite propane
5) It takes 6 milli-joules for you to feel the spark.
6) It can be explosive in the correct concentrations and conditions.
7) Propane has an expansion rate of 270 which means; 1 gallon of liquid equals 270 gallons of burnable vapor
From The National Fire Prevention Association (almost all states and local governments use their codes as law)
http://nfpa.libsyn.com/food-truck-fire-and-life-safety (http://nfpa.libsyn.com/food-truck-fire-and-life-safety)
A 20-gallon tank of propane which is equivalent to 170 sticks of dynamite with its explosive capability.
(170 divided by 20 equals the potential equivalent of 8.5 sticks in of dynamite in a 1 pound cylinder)
From PHSMA (The Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration is a United States Department of Transportation agency that now regulates DOT 39 cylinders)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cv4TsWQt/DOTpropanehazard-Poster-Final-0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cv4TsWQt)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2_GhyAw3vM&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2_GhyAw3vM&feature=youtu.be)
Nanny State laws are not designed to protect you from yourself, they are in place to protect others from you!
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As for the Flame king refillable cylinders there is a recall on some of them;
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2017/YSN-Imports-Recalls-Refillable-Propane-Cylinders (https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2017/YSN-Imports-Recalls-Refillable-Propane-Cylinders)
Description:
This recall involves Flame King, Little Kamper and U-Haul refillable propane cylinders used with outdoor appliances. The serial numbers are printed on the foot ring of the cylinder. The brand logo and size is printed on the front of the cylinder.
By Brand, Size, Color &, Serial Number Range
Flame King
14.1 oz.
blue
000001 through 004700
Flame King
16.4 oz.
green
000001 through 020800
Little Kamper
16 oz.
green
000001 through 020800
U-Haul
1 lb.
blue
000001 through 004700
U-Haul
1 lb.
green
000001 through 020800
Remedy:
Consumers should immediately stop using the recalled propane cylinders and contact YSN Imports for a full refund or replacement propane cylinder.
Incidents/Injuries:
The firm has received two reports of the connecting valve starting to unscrew from the cylinder. No injuries have been reported.
Sold At:
Ace Hardware, Home Depot, Kamps, Propane Depot, U-Haul and other stores nationwide and online at Amazon.com and other websites from November 2013 through September 2016 for between $10 and $15.
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The only thing right in your posting "may" be the 600 WOG valve. The Type 1 hose assembly and the fact you are transferring "liquid" propane inside a building (garage) will not remove your liability if an incident should arise by you or any individual who followed what you show in your post (remember children read these posts too).
Key facts about propane;
1) It is a colorless,tasteless, odorless gas that has an odorant added to it.
2) Odorant can fade and will not leave the tank at the same rate as propane hence, why low & empty tanks stink more.
3) Propane is heavier than air and can accumulate in explosive quantities inside buildings and low areas
4) It only takes 3 milli-joules of static energy to ignite propane
5) It takes 6 milli-joules for you to feel the spark.
6) It can be explosive in the correct concentrations and conditions.
7) Propane has an expansion rate of 270 which means; 1 gallon of liquid equals 270 gallons of burnable vapor
From The National Fire Prevention Association (almost all states and local governments use their codes as law)
http://nfpa.libsyn.com/food-truck-fire-and-life-safety (http://nfpa.libsyn.com/food-truck-fire-and-life-safety)
A 20-gallon tank of propane which is equivalent to 170 sticks of dynamite with its explosive capability.
(170 divided by 20 equals the potential equivalent of 8.5 sticks in of dynamite in a 1 pound cylinder)
From PHSMA (The Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration is a United States Department of Transportation agency that now regulates DOT 39 cylinders)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cv4TsWQt/DOTpropanehazard-Poster-Final-0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cv4TsWQt)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2_GhyAw3vM&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2_GhyAw3vM&feature=youtu.be)
Nanny State laws are not designed to protect you from yourself, they are in place to protect others from you!
Take this crap elsewhere. Why is it that anytime someone talks about propane and ways of saving money does some high on his horse person sit ontop a soap box trying to scare everyone that handles it. I'd hate to see what someone like yourself would say about anhydrous.
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Take this crap elsewhere. Why is it that anytime someone talks about propane and ways of saving money does some high on his horse person sit ontop a soap box trying to scare everyone that handles it. I'd hate to see what someone like yourself would say about anhydrous.
I just stated facts and forwarded information that others may find useful. My apologies that you seem super sensitive and that these facts upset you or could it just be,
(https://i.postimg.cc/jCnHKXLT/th.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jCnHKXLT)
P.S.; I passed on useful information about the Flame king Refillable cylinders also ;)
And as for Anhydrous Ammonia, I spent 5 hours standing in the rain with the HAZMAT team, DCI, Fire Dept and, Sheriffs department because it was suspected that some intelligent entrepreneur put it in a couple 20# grill cylinders. Let me tell you first hand NOBODY was thrilled to touch those cylinders!!!!!!
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didn't know it was unlawful to fill dot 39 cans. thanks for the info!
just bought 6 flame king cans and refill kit. and brass caps with seals for the cans.
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I just stated facts and forwarded information that others may find useful. My apologies that you seem super sensitive and that these facts upset you or could it just be,
(https://i.postimg.cc/jCnHKXLT/th.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jCnHKXLT)
P.S.; I passed on useful information about the Flame king Refillable cylinders also ;)
And as for Anhydrous Ammonia, I spent 5 hours standing in the rain with the HAZMAT team, DCI, Fire Dept and, Sheriffs department because it was suspected that some intelligent entrepreneur put it in a couple 20# grill cylinders. Let me tell you first hand NOBODY was thrilled to touch those cylinders!!!!!!
Dealing with drug dealers and manufacturers that put anhydrous in containers they were never meant to be in is a heck of a lot different then refilling containers a product was meant to be in.
I'm tired of some soap box person scaring people half to death on doing something that is perfectly ok to do using scare tactics about stuff.
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I love filling up my green bombs! Even more fun knowing that I am such a burden on society. >:D
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Sportsman's guide has them available right now.
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/flame-king-1-lb-refillable-propane-cylinder-and-refill-kit?a=2187434
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49 amazon free ship with prime.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F9LCYRT/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Home Depot free delivery
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Home Depot free delivery
refill kit was 5 more at hd than amazon. you get one 1# can with kit.
cans are 7 less at hd than amazon
buying 5 cans and one refill kit saved 40 buying from both places. 4 cans allows for free ship at hd.
so it payed for roughly 3 cans buying from multiple sites and free ship from both.
having certified cans will be a big relief.
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I to am investing in flame king
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I bought the flame King kit last year......works well
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Menards has the flame king kit for $39.97, $35.57 after 11% rebate going on now. 1# flame king refillable cylinder for $13.95, $12.42 after the 11% rebate.
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The flame King cylinders have issues fitting in and working with the Buddy heaters, right?
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I used to have one of those sunflower heaters on a stand that I would hook direct to a 20# tank with the black hose. Once in a while, the heater would quit working or spit and sputter a bit. I had read somewhere...on this site I think...that said the "black" hoses breakdown over time and allow foreign material to pass through into the heater causing issues. Isn't there a "green" hose available that is designed to be used with the 20#ers? And aren't the 1#ers that are purchased more refined which leads to fewer issues with the heaters? Just a thought for you guys doing refills.
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The flame King cylinders have issues fitting in and working with the Buddy heaters, right?
Hope not...snagged one today at Murdoch's Ranch Supply for $39.95.
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Im on board with the safer refillable tanks now..in one can i hear a small piece of metal rolling around that must have made it past inspection .made in thailand hmmm.we will see if it was a good investment over time.i still have the other green bombs and refiller.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1V6fTzM1/F598-F58-C-6710-46-F3-9-D61-CC9148-E8181-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1V6fTzM1)
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I used to have one of those sunflower heaters on a stand that I would hook direct to a 20# tank with the black hose. Once in a while, the heater would quit working or spit and sputter a bit. I had read somewhere...on this site I think...that said the "black" hoses breakdown over time and allow foreign material to pass through into the heater causing issues. Isn't there a "green" hose available that is designed to be used with the 20#ers? And aren't the 1#ers that are purchased more refined which leads to fewer issues with the heaters? Just a thought for you guys doing refills.
If you are refilling the 1 pounders from a big tank you aren’t running the propane through a hose so there’s nothing that will break down. The crud that clogs things up comes from the rubber hoses which is why you would want to run a filter with them. I also run mine off of a big tank and have that green hose you mentioned and I don’t run a filter. In 15 years of running my portable buddy off of a tank with the green hose and off of refilled one pounders I’ve never had to clean the heater out because of gunk that loaded up inside.
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I filled a milk crate of 1lb green bombs last night with the flame King kit, and used a 30# tank to fill off of. Worked great.
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The flame King cylinders have issues fitting in and working with the Buddy heaters, right?
. Bump. Is anyone using the flame king cylinders with the buddy heaters and having any issues?
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. Bump. Is anyone using the flame king cylinders with the buddy heaters and having any issues?
I think the rumor was that the flame King one lb tanks was a touch taller then a green bomb......so it would be just a bit tall to be on a buddy heater.
I can put it on my buddy heater and find out for ya.
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I think the rumor was that the flame King one lb tanks was a touch taller then a green bomb......so it would be just a bit tall to be on a buddy heater.
I can put it on my buddy heater and find out for ya.
. Thanks, would be nice to know for sure.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/94ffbKLH/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/94ffbKLH)
Fit fine in my portable buddy
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Thanks for taking the time to try it out, appreciate it!
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Hello.
I live off the road system of NW Alaska, refilling the 20 Pounder cylinders, I thought Id stop off at the local fuel vendor to fill 2ea 20# bottles, went over to the fueling area and the, fueler ssid he couldnt fill my bottles, both looked in fine shape.
He pointed to a stamping on the ring and said both botyles were past the 12 year certification date.
That the bottles needed to be hydrostaticly tested and marked as tested.
:-\ so I have a 3 out of 5 cylinders that need testing.
That would mean air-freighting out old outdated cylinders plus the hazard shipping fee and the test fee.
In the end it was easier to just buy a new bottle than run through the hassle of recert a old one.
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Hello.
I live off the road system of NW Alaska, refilling the 20 Pounder cylinders, I thought Id stop off at the local fuel vendor to fill 2ea 20# bottles, went over to the fueling area and the, fueler ssid he couldnt fill my bottles, both looked in fine shape.
He pointed to a stamping on the ring and said both botyles were past the 12 year certification date.
That the bottles needed to be hydrostaticly tested and marked as tested.
:-\ so I have a 3 out of 5 cylinders that need testing.
That would mean air-freighting out old outdated cylinders plus the hazard shipping fee and the test fee.
In the end it was easier to just buy a new bottle than run through the hassle of recert a old one.
Or just take them to a bottle exchange place to get a new tank. Then when they get them they will reprint them and test them.
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i wanted to be safer with the brass caps with rubber gaskets. you never know when one will start seeping. they are 11$ for 5 on amazon.
(https://i.postimg.cc/18QKF7yr/DSC-0528.jpg)
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i have 7 new flame king bottles and studied up on them some more. here are a few pointers for those who have not bought them.
you have to use a small allen key to open a regulator gauge on the bottle to avoid being overfilled. the key is only supplied in the kit and not with the bottle. 5/32 allen key wrench.
they have to be filled while cans are standing and remain standing at all times even while not it use.
only 2 cans allowed in an indoors area. seems way off being you go to a store and they have case lots indoors of the thin walled filled disposables.
12 years is the length of certification and the date of manufacture is stamped on rim.
we are not allowed to fill them unless licensed and trained in filling them.
more about their requirements here
http://www.flameking.com/media/wysiwyg/Training_Manual_for_1_lb_cylinder_fillers.pdf
picture of label hiding under a movable outer plastic sleeve.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JGZGMG0L/screenshot-74.png) (http://postimg.cc/JGZGMG0L)
waiting to speak with a customer service agent when they open in california. being i am not licensed to fill them i want to know why they can sell them to anyone.
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I would guess these warnings are to keep them from being held responsible for accidents. Like the warning from a weapon manufacturer telling you to only clean your weapon when it's unloaded. That way they can't be held responsible when someone shoots a toe off while cleaning a loaded gun. ;)
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just spoke with ben in ca from flame king. he said in usa its not required to be licensed. it's for canada and other parts of the world. i explained it is confusing and he said they just talked about this and are working on how to fix it.
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Thanks 3300
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After using the Flame King Refill systems all of last season and having refilled several tanks myself, I can offer a little bit of advice. #1 and VERY important is to wear heavy leather gloves when refilling. This information is in the instructions, but don't dare forget or you can get severely burnt from escaping gas when you unscrew the refillable tank from the refill adapter. #2 Unscrew the brass ring of the refill adapter while keeping upward pressure on the tank to the refill nozzle. This will help keep gas from escaping from the refillable tank while unscrewing from the refill nozzle. When the ring is completely unscrewed, quickly pull the tank downward to completely disconnect from the refill adapter. You will still get a small puff of gas from what is left in the refill adapter. If anyone doesn't understand #2, please pm me and we can arrange a telephone call to for me to explain/clarify. I'd be happy to field any other questions to those of you just getting started with the Flame King kits or even those thinking of purchasing. It's a simple system and works great once you overcome a few minor procedural technicalities.
DN
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Anyone figure the breakeven on getting the Flame King, vs just buying 1lb tanks new? I dont use that many in a year.....so just wondering....and im lazy not doing the math.....if nobody else has, maybe I'll get to it.....
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Well.... I will try to "normalize" this for everyone in the group...
The Flameking kit costs $39.99 across a variety of venders (yes you can save or spend a few bucks in each direction pending location/tax)
The flame king kit comes with 1 - 1# tank also. For me to use my buddy portable for 2 days straight of fishing (1 weekend sat/sunday) I would need 2 -1lb tanks per day in order to burn 12 hours straight.
I would need 4 tanks to last a weekend without "access to my home base 20# tank."
Additional flameking tanks are $12.99 each (again prices vary... I took the average).
$39.99 for the kit... + 3 additional tanks (12.99 x 3) = $78.96 for the kit and 4 tanks total.
A coleman 1# twinpack averages around $6.50 (again most common pricing and the most common way sold... as a twin pack).
Cost vs. cost its 12 twin packs (24-1# bottles) to break even on just overhead.....
In doing so you would also go through 24# of propane on your "home base refillable 20# tank" (most tanks are only filled to 15-17#.
1.5 exchanges - 20 lb tank will hold about 4.7 gallons of propane. That is $18.47 at $3.93/gal. 18.47 x 1.5 = $27.71
An additional 27.71 of cost would buy an additional 4-twinpacks (27.71/$6.50)
At a quantity of somewhere between 28 to 32 - 1lb propane tanks do you "start" pulling a margin.
Now the ability to refill at 10PM the night before a trip without having to run into down to buy more coleman twinpacks also has value.
$39.99 for the kit... + 3 additional tanks (12.99 x 3) = $78.96
+ 1.5 refills to make up the overhead filling cost = $27.71
= $106.67
$106.67 / $6.50 twin pack = 16 twin packs or 32-1lb propane tanks
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Well.... I will try to "normalize" this for everyone in the group...
The Flameking kit costs $39.99 across a variety of venders (yes you can save or spend a few bucks in each direction pending location/tax)
The flame king kit comes with 1 - 1# tank also. For me to use my buddy portable for 2 days straight of fishing (1 weekend sat/sunday) I would need 2 -1lb tanks per day in order to burn 12 hours straight.
I would need 4 tanks to last a weekend without "access to my home base 20# tank."
Additional flameking tanks are $12.99 each (again prices vary... I took the average).
$39.99 for the kit... + 3 additional tanks (12.99 x 3) = $78.96 for the kit and 4 tanks total.
A coleman 1# twinpack averages around $6.50 (again most common pricing and the most common way sold... as a twin pack).
Cost vs. cost its 12 twin packs (24-1# bottles) to break even on just overhead.....
In doing so you would also go through 24# of propane on your "home base refillable 20# tank" (most tanks are only filled to 15-17#.
1.5 exchanges - 20 lb tank will hold about 4.7 gallons of propane. That is $18.47 at $3.93/gal. 18.47 x 1.5 = $27.71
An additional 27.71 of cost would buy an additional 4-twinpacks (27.71/$6.50)
At a quantity of somewhere between 28 to 32 - 1lb propane tanks do you "start" pulling a margin.
Now the ability to refill at 10PM the night before a trip without having to run into down to buy more coleman twinpacks also has value.
$39.99 for the kit... + 3 additional tanks (12.99 x 3) = $78.96
+ 1.5 refills to make up the overhead filling cost = $27.71
= $106.67
$106.67 / $6.50 twin pack = 16 twin packs or 32-1lb propane tanks
If you have a few green tanks u can fill them with the flame King kit. You just need a hemostat to pull the release valve to get them full. I have 3 milk crates of 1# tanks. So I fill 23 green bombs and the 1 flame King 1lber. I've done this for 3years. I use the 1lbs on my ice shack heaters, Weber tail gate grill and a few other things. Plus I refill the blue tall torch bottles.
Once a green bomb gets rusty toss it and pick up some new empty bottles at the lake when people throw them away.
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I don't know where you live but $3.93 per gal is WAY HIGH!!!! I purchased LP @ $1.99/ gal to fill my Green's.... Tractor Supply Company will fill your 20lber or whatever cylinders and charge you FOR WHAT THEY PUT IN!!!! Other places charge you for an empty tank @ 20lbs. Now you know a 20lber doesn't accept 20lbs. Only 18ish if you are lucky and possibly 15lbs. Anyone remember the lawsuit for Blue Rhino??? They were charging 20lbs for 15lbs filled. Don't want heavy discussion here but I'd get you some facts. Been filling for years and ZERO problems. If you need newer greens visit your local state park. People leave empties there. Not all are empty................
Kim :tipup: :icefish:
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I don't know where you live but $3.93 per gal is WAY HIGH!!!! I purchased LP @ $1.99/ gal to fill my Green's.... Tractor Supply Company will fill your 20lber or whatever cylinders and charge you FOR WHAT THEY PUT IN!!!!
Tractor supply website "lists" 3.09 is nationwide average on their website for me.... but thats also why I showed my math... :P :o ;)
So YOU could put in your "local numbers" and calculate yourself ;D :P
Either way its pretty simple to just say... 20 to 30 green bombs to break even in this exercise and each person can decide what their annual usage is.
I go thru 35-40 tanks between having a propane auger and my father and I's heater.... thus it makes sense.
If I used 5-15 tanks per year... it would not.
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$13.95 including tax for a full #20 refill by me...sorry to hear you're getting such horrible prices on lp
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cost me 11$ because filling one pound cans always left some in it. they charge per pound, not per tank.
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I just stated facts and forwarded information that others may find useful. My apologies that you seem super sensitive and that these facts upset you or could it just be,
(https://i.postimg.cc/jCnHKXLT/th.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jCnHKXLT)
P.S.; I passed on useful information about the Flame king Refillable cylinders also ;)
And as for Anhydrous Ammonia, I spent 5 hours standing in the rain with the HAZMAT team, DCI, Fire Dept and, Sheriffs department because it was suspected that some intelligent entrepreneur put it in a couple 20# grill cylinders. Let me tell you first hand NOBODY was thrilled to touch those cylinders!!!!!!
Ah, I see you've dealt with the "know it all" on here as well.
Don't take it personally, he (?) does that to everybody he disagrees with...
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i for one am super glad gasman707 and esox slayer spoke up and educated us more about lpg. because of this topic it has served as a safety report of sorts and many of us are now using the flame king refill system. we even have a sticky because of this information.
thanks so much guys! if it saves just one life it is worth it.
flame king says never leave the source tank upside down for over 10 minutes. it must be how to keep the oils and sediment the source tank may hold from getting into the refill tanks.
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Dealing with drug dealers and manufacturers that put anhydrous in containers they were never meant to be in is a heck of a lot different then refilling containers a product was meant to be in.
I'm tired of some soap box person scaring people half to death on doing something that is perfectly ok to do using scare tactics about stuff.
Sure the containers were meant to have propane in them however they were never built to be refilled. Do what you want. I choose to follow good advice. I just received my flame king kit. The tanks are well built. Now that's a tank that can be refilled. Just remember it only takes once.
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i for one am super glad gasman707 and esox slayer spoke up and educated us more about lpg. because of this topic it has served as a safety report of sorts and many of us are now using the flame king refill system. we even have a sticky because of this information.
thanks so much guys! if it saves just one life it is worth it.
flame king says never leave the source tank upside down for over 10 minutes. it must be how to keep the oils and sediment the source tank may hold from getting into the refill tanks.
x2
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Long story short. Do what you are comfortable doing. This subject has been on-going for years. I don't take it lightly refilling 1lber's. Some people with less experience may have troubles so do what you are comfortable doing as stated and go from there............
Kim :tipup:
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It must have something to do with the safety valve. ???
The weight I used to check the refilled canisters was just under 2 lbs. I had checked 4 brand new Coleman canisters and the full weight was an average of 1 lb 15.2 ounces.
The past few years I had been using the Mac adapter and couldn't get the canisters past 2/3 full even when freezing the bottles. This is a much more efficient process.
How much do you have tied up in that and wood you make it up for some one else.
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Just use a 5# tank and a hose and be done with it. Local propane dealer can refill it and you won't have to dispose of those green bombs.
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the main thing about this thread is to stop refilling 1 pound disposable tanks. the op said they were not available (recalled for 2 brass fill valves became loose because flame king forgot to use loc-tight on the threads and no one was injured) when he built his refill kit, but that he wanted the flame king system. it is now available to all of us.
here's a good way to look at some math on recovering your costs that last for 12 years or more. they are certified for 12 years.
i use up to 4 1 pound tanks in a long day. if you pay 4$ for those tanks you have over 16$ into them. the flame king tanks can be bought for 12$ at menards with rebate. that means for every day i fish it would cost me the price of one flame king tank and be able to fill it about 8 times or more with the 4$ left over from the disposable cans cost.
and the disposable tanks are a hazmat issue when disposing them.
the gas in the disposable tank would cost about 50 cents tops, so you spent 16$ to burn 2$ worth of gas and wasted the remaining 14$ that could buy the flame king bottle. times how ever many days/weeks/months/years you go.
we have heard stories where the disposable 1 pound tank safety valve was venting inside a moving vehicle and the driver was smoking. the 1 pound disposable was over filled and after being in the heated vehicle it vented gas inside of it.
i have had the fill valves leak on them after refilling.
remember you are filling these outside and after the season is over they are still full and then the heat of summer gets to them or the heat of your vehicle or the heat in your shelter and you may have a problem if over filled or a fill valve or safety valve become faulty like has happened to myself.
Just use a 5# tank and a hose and be done with it. Local propane dealer can refill it and you won't have to dispose of those green bombs.
if it works for you that's great. not reusing the disposable tanks is huge. the reason you say use a larger tank is because it is certified refillable for so many years.
many of us are now using the flame king system that is certified for refilling.
https://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=361359.0
besides the safety and legal issues with refilling disposable tanks, here is why i am using certified refillable1 pound tanks;
my lpg lantern takes 1 pound tanks only. the tank is it's base/stand.
my mr heater little buddy takes 1 pound tank only. the tank is it's base/stand.
my micro cooker takes 1 pound tank only. the tank is it's base/stand.
my torch uses 1 pound tanks.
my grills side burner uses 1 pound tanks.
the 1 pound tanks are too convenient to stop using them and necessary for me.
plus i can fill 1 pound certified tanks when i want them filled at my convenience. i work with 2 20 pound tanks so i always have lpg on the ready. i also like the base of the flame king tanks. it is just like all the other refillable lpg tanks.
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Just use a 5# tank and a hose and be done with it. Local propane dealer can refill it and you won't have to dispose of those green bombs.
X2
My heater runs all day on high without the need to change out one pound tanks. I don't have to spend the time off the ice to refill the 4 or 5 one pound tanks either.
But like 3300 said they do have there place. I want a couple for emergency home heating.
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So what happens when you fish all day Saturday and use, IDK, 4lbs of your 5lb tank?? What do you do come Sunday with 1lb left in that 5lber? Do you have to run to the propane store for a refill? Do you have a second 5lb tank? Do you run it empty and bring a whole other 5lb with??
The nice thing about the Flame King 1lbers is that I can fill a 2-4 in about 5-10 minutes in my garage. I actually also have a 5lb tank that I haven't used in years. The last time I filled it I was charged almost the same price as a 20lb tank.
X2
My heater runs all day on high without the need to change out one pound tanks. I don't have to spend the time off the ice to refill the 4 or 5 one pound tanks either.
But like 3300 said they do have there place. I want a couple for emergency home heating.
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I have a 5# tank.... for the reasons above (convenience etc... I no longer use the 5# tank).
I also have a propane auger... the 5# won't fit :)
I have 2 20# tanks... I love never having to worry about making an errands run into town to walmart or the Co-Op to fill tanks for the entire season.
I would never go back to disposables or hauling large tanks ever again.
My Otter XTH Hub and Mr Buddy 9k can run all day HOT on 2 tanks. (12 hours of straight burn time on Low). I have to have a window open all day.
5 minutes later... without burning any extra gas running into town.. My tanks are filled again.
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So what happens when you fish all day Saturday and use, IDK, 4lbs of your 5lb tank?? What do you do come Sunday with 1lb left in that 5lber? Do you have to run to the propane store for a refill? Do you have a second 5lb tank? Do you run it empty and bring a whole other 5lb with??
The nice thing about the Flame King 1lbers is that I can fill a 2-4 in about 5-10 minutes in my garage. I actually also have a 5lb tank that I haven't used in years. The last time I filled it I was charged almost the same price as a 20lb tank.
I can heat my one man flip on low so it would last two days . If I'm in the hub I bring out the 11# with the big buddy which will also last two days. I think the 1# Flame king tanks are great and I plan on getting some.
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Ah, I see you've dealt with the "know it all" on here as well.
Don't take it personally, he (?) does that to everybody he disagrees with...
Once again in this topic, I stated no personal opinion on filling the 1lb cylinders, I called no names and only provided factual information that can not be proven wrong. My only intent was to help others make an educated decision for themselves.
You are welcome, maybe someday you can return the favor.
P.S. here is another fact; I won’t be holding my breath in anticipation