Perch size distribution in Cascade

[sdhuntandfish]

Always windy here ;-)

[hooknhunter]

We threw back all of our little ones when we were out there last weekend. This is the law, there is no interpretation other than perch are listed as a gamefish per IFG and it's clearly stated that it's against the law to waste game fish, I. E. Leaving them on the ice - "wanton waste". Either keep em to eat (whatever sizes you desire) or put em back. 15" perch are a 4" perch at some point in their life, correct?

You've made bold statements there.  Please prove your point.  I've read the regs thoroughly many times I don't know where you got most of the stuff you are quoting.  It is true there is a statement about waste.  It is short and clear:  Waste of Game Fish: It is illegal to waste game fish.

I've personally NEVER wasted a game fish under the definitions I can find doing a quick web search.  Fish and Game does not define what they mean by waste, so I don't know where you get most of your statements.

You throw your little ones back.  That's cool.  I do not.

NTP apparently refused to answer the question.

[Woodland]

you didn't hear! slush is gone! seriously froze up after the rain on saturday knocked down all the snow

[Woodland]

just to add the nail to the coffin of this thread:
After a sportsman has harvested a fish, the law requires that no portion of the flesh usually eaten by humans can be left, either through carelessness or neglect, to go needlessly to waste.

[sdhuntandfish]

Woodland, I heard a report from today that the slush monster is still alive and well?

H&H - for the purpose of debate, how would perch left on the ice not be "waste"? I don't have an axe to grind with anyone, just making an observation is all.

[sdhuntandfish]

No need for this thread to get locked or zapped, as long as everyone keeps it civil and no pointed fingers, we should just have a healthy, friendly debate. We all have opinions and sometimes they differ. That's ok.

[hooknhunter]

Woodland, I heard a report from today that the slush monster is still alive and well?

H&H - for the purpose of debate, how would perch left on the ice not be "waste"? I don't have an axe to grind with anyone, just making an observation is all.

According to all the definitions I've seen that might apply, it comes down to purpose.  Whether someone has a purpose or not would determine if it was waste or not.  If done with purpose, it would not be waste. 


For the sake of this exact thread, one possible purpose might be to assist in keeping populations low.  I suppose if someone wanted to leave a pile of them on the ice for the purpose of contributing to keeping the population down, then I guess they could argue they had purpose.  I can, however, think of many better purposes to "keep them" than to just abandon them of the ice.  Cat food, bait, garden fertilizer.  I'm sure I could think of a few more. 


My guess is that whoever left them probably intended to pick them up and bring them home in a different bucket and then got in a hurry to leave and forgot?  Just a guess.


I'm jumped thru your hoop.  Are you going to prove your point that they have to be eaten?  Or are you going to avoid as well.

[hooknhunter]

just to add the nail to the coffin of this thread:
After a sportsman has harvested a fish, the law requires that no portion of the flesh usually eaten by humans can be left, either through carelessness or neglect, to go needlessly to waste.

Show me, please.

[sdhuntandfish]

Ok, fair. I would counter that with this question. What evidence do you have that's shows that we *need* to keep the population down by eradicating little ones? Have you not seen some of the fish coming out this year?

[hooknhunter]

Ok, fair. I would counter that with this question. What evidence do you have that's shows that we *need* to keep the population down by eradicating little ones? Have you not seen some of the fish coming out this year?

I'll gladly answer if you stop changing the subject and answer my question.

[natebert]

I think that this pretty much answers all questions I had.

* Wasteful destruction of wildlife:
https://legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title36/T36CH12SECT36-1202.htm
(a)  Waste. Through carelessness, neglect or otherwise, to allow or cause the waste of edible portions of any game animal, except for mountain lion, black bear or gray wolf. "Edible portions" are defined as follows:
.
.
.
    3.  Game fish. Fillets of fish, hind legs of bullfrogs and tails of crayfish;
(b)  Destruction -- Mutilation. Capture or kill any game animal and detach or remove from the carcass only the head, hide, antlers, horns or tusks and leave the edible portions to waste, except mountain lion, black bear or gray wolf.
(e)  For purposes of this section, the term "game animal" shall mean game birds, big game animals, upland game animals and game fish.

* Unlawful killing, possession or waste
https://legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title36/T36CH14SECT36-1404.htm
(7.  Any other game bird, game fish or furbearer, fifty dollars ($50.00) per animal killed, possessed or wasted.)

* What are Game FIsh:
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/fish/?getPage=85

Maybe someday they'll decree Perch an 'Undesirable' fish like the Pike Minnow, but I doubt it.  So until then...
PROTECTION OF FISH:
https://legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title36/T36CH9SECT36-903.htm

[sdhuntandfish]

Nice research natebert. Thank you!

From one of the attachments:
36-1404.  UNLAWFUL KILLING, POSSESSION OR WASTE OF WILD ANIMALS, BIRDS AND FISH -- REIMBURSABLE DAMAGES -- SCHEDULE -- ASSESSMENT BY MAGISTRATES -- INSTALLMENT PAYMENTS -- DEFAULT JUDGMENTS -- DISPOSITION OF MONEYS. (a) In addition to the penalties provided for violating any of the provisions of title 36, Idaho Code, any person who pleads guilty, is found guilty of or is convicted of the illegal killing or the illegal possession or illegal waste of game animals or birds or fish shall reimburse the state for each animal so killed or possessed or wasted as follows:

7.  Any other game bird, game fish or furbearer, fifty dollars ($50.00) per animal killed, possessed or wasted.

To clarify perch as a game fish per page 47 of the current reg book:

Game Fish: Brook, brown, bull, cutthroat, golden, lake
(Mackinaw), rainbow (including steelhead), splake and
Sunapee trout; trout hybrids; Chinook, coho, Atlantic, and
kokanee (blueback) salmon; grayling; whitefish; cisco;
crappie; perch; bass; catfish; bullhead; sunfish; sturgeon;
northern pike; tiger muskie; walleye and sauger; and burbot
(Ling). Bullfrogs and crayfish are also defined as game fish.

[No Trout Please]

Yeah but I don't understand how a 5 gallon bucket of 3-4 inch perch is any different than a cooler full of chinook salmon if I kept them I plan to eat them so that might answer your guestion now to what your saying take that same bucket of perch and tell the game warden your gonna feed them to your cats and see what he says!

[hooknhunter]

I think that this pretty much answers all questions I had.

* Wasteful destruction of wildlife:
https://legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title36/T36CH12SECT36-1202.htm
(a)  Waste. Through carelessness, neglect or otherwise, to allow or cause the waste of edible portions of any game animal, except for mountain lion, black bear or gray wolf. "Edible portions" are defined as follows:
.
.
.
    3.  Game fish. Fillets of fish, hind legs of bullfrogs and tails of crayfish;
(b)  Destruction -- Mutilation. Capture or kill any game animal and detach or remove from the carcass only the head, hide, antlers, horns or tusks and leave the edible portions to waste, except mountain lion, black bear or gray wolf.
(e)  For purposes of this section, the term "game animal" shall mean game birds, big game animals, upland game animals and game fish.

* Unlawful killing, possession or waste
https://legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title36/T36CH14SECT36-1404.htm
(7.  Any other game bird, game fish or furbearer, fifty dollars ($50.00) per animal killed, possessed or wasted.)

* What are Game FIsh:
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/fish/?getPage=85

Maybe someday they'll decree Perch an 'Undesirable' fish like the Pike Minnow, but I doubt it.  So until then...
PROTECTION OF FISH:
https://legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title36/T36CH9SECT36-903.htm

Thank you.  I am corrected.  I will repent and stop feeding my little baby perch to the cat.


Under the definition in the code, I would bet that ALMOST ALL of you are ALSO GUILTY.  As I read that, if you've used cut bait, and it has fallen off your hook, or if you discarded it instead of bringing it home and eating it, then you are guilty too. 


Anyone gonna stop doing that?

[natebert]

Aren't cats on the menu in some places too?

[hooknhunter]

Aren't cats on the menu in some places too?

Not on mine.  If you want, you can eat mine.

[sdhuntandfish]

Coming from a state where ice fishing is 1000% more popular than in Idaho, I see our perch raped and decimated in a matter of weeks or months. Waters the size of Cascade cleaned out in one season. Perch out here have meaning. They are respected, and people come from all over the country to fish for them. Entire towns in our perch belt rely on the income from visiting perch anglers. It saddens and angers me to see some people take such callous disregard for a great sport fish, treat them like trash - all for no proven scientific reason.

Rant over.
Andy

[natebert]

Thank you.  I am corrected.  I will repent and stop feeding my little baby perch to the cat.


Under the definition in the code, I would bet that ALMOST ALL of you are ALSO GUILTY.  As I read that, if you've used cut bait, and it has fallen off your hook, or if you discarded it instead of bringing it home and eating it, then you are guilty too. 


Anyone gonna stop doing that?

When I was about 10, my grandfather was ticketed right in front of me for 2 of these violations (chumming and cut-bait). 
I still remember him saying that it was the most expensive price per lb of fish we never ate (fish & equipment was confiscated on the spot).

[Woodland]

i never understood the use of cut bait.

[sdhuntandfish]

Woodland - I agree. 

[Woodland]

HnH,
You made a good point about intent dictating whether an action is waste. i just dont think fish and game would be so philosophical.

[hooknhunter]

I was doing more thinking about that code too.  Who defines "edible".  I know many people who've traveled the world and say it is common in several other countries to eat the eyes, heart, and brains of fish.


Are you eating the eyes, heart, and brains?  If not, you better watch out...........

[Woodland]

I was doing more thinking about that code too.  Who defines "edible".  I know many people who've traveled the world and say it is common in several other countries to eat the eyes, heart, and brains of fish.


Are you eating the eyes, heart, and brains?  If not, you better watch out...........

I think in the first world at least, we will be safe 

[hooknhunter]

What evidence do you have that's shows that we *need* to keep the population down by eradicating little ones? Have you not seen some of the fish coming out this year?

Okay, SDHF.


I'll answer your questions now.


First question:  None.  I have no evidence, but I'd prefer to err on the side of lower population over a high one.


Second question:  I've seen one or two.


Edit:  Evidence..........  I guess I just have fish and games own statement that they expect it to over populate any year now.  I don't think I quoted them correctly as to the exact statement that was in a recent article, but that is what I took from it.  I've also been told that verbally by fish cops I've talked to. 

[sdhuntandfish]

 

[hooknhunter]

Edited my previous post, thought you might find it pertinent.

[sdhuntandfish]

I've seen that as well - in print even.

What I'll say is that I had a conversation with Dale in McCall (the biologist) back in 2012 when I first fished Cascade. He said he thought those bigger fish were on their way out and Cascade would turn into what it was during the days of old. Well, 4 years later and It's still kicking out good numbers of really big fish along with a lot of up and coming big ones. I don't know if anyone knows what the future holds, but what I do know is that Cascade is a gem in its current state. Bottom line is that we should all be out enjoying it because like all good things, they don't last forever...

[hooknhunter]

Agreed.

[bowhunter68]

So who is leaving fish on .............GOTCHA !! All i know is there are no perch up here in Alaska and i miss Cascade every Saturday and Sunday 😡😡

[No Trout Please]

If you read everyone's comments we all want the same thing with a few differences here and there and I like having discussions like this it's great lot of us are working during the week and thinking about fishing so this is as close as we can get till the weekend and it was civil I thought!