Soft Plastic Ban....

[Hoodoo]

http://www.bassmaster.com/news/soft-plastics-bannedAnyone hear how the vote went??

[JDK]

There was a public hearing on the 5th and a work session scheduled for the 19th.  No idea how the public hearing went.

[Hoodoo]

Thanks JDK I just reread the article the vote is later thanks

[blacktrap]

Some discussion of the testimony here-
http://www.georgesmithmaine.com/articles/georges-outdoor-news/february/2013/ifw-committee-debates-rubber-worms

[Anomaly]

MPBN just launched a new channel that shows hearings and such from Augusta. Kinda like C-Span. It may be this topic may be watchable or maybe searchable. I’ll check it out latter. If any of you get a chance first, let me know.

[Scalloper]

Caught another trout this winter with a soft plastic bait in it.

[Anomaly]

Caught another trout this winter with a soft plastic bait in it.

What killed it ?

But really, was a big bait? I’m wondering if smaller stuff might not be as big of and issue. Other than cig butts, the only plastic stuff I’ve found was larger than 2”. Could it be if the restriction didn’t include 2” and under it might solve some of the issue. . I know panfish guys, like me ,  use pretty small stuff.

I would be fine seeing all the stuff I use being biodegrable. that would take a pretty far reaching industry change. It would lessen the need for petroleum based baits and may boost farm product sales......Just conjecturing

[blacktrap]

Caught another trout this winter with a soft plastic bait in it.

Lots of them get caught.  Its not anything surprising.  Any lake that has bass fishing in it and trout is going to have fish caught with plastics in them.  Would that fish have died anyway?  Is the lake marginal for trout and should stocking them be stopped?  The lures do not appear to affect the bass population.  It is a problem that will correct itself in the near future without any type of ban on lures.  Lots of places are examing this issue and the bait manufacturers are working very hard to develop new biodegradeable soft lures that will eventually replace the current ones.

[MEhunter]

Has anyone tried jigging togue with some of these baits? They sure seem to like them.

[MEhunter]

Should say just the worms and salamanders I've found in them. Have seen plenty of people jigging with tubes and other soft plastics.

[blacktrap]

The way they scoff them off the bottom you would think it would work really well just setting one on bottom hooked on

[cap]

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/honest-angler/2013/02/what-could-maines-rubber-lure-ban-mean-future-fishing

I've found soft plastics only in stocked trout that IFAW puts into bass water.

Never have I found any plastics in any wild or native brook trout.

But also I have never found any plastic in stocked trout coming from water where bass fishing is NOT the primary fishery.

There are two things here....

People are grossed out by the fact that they have found trout, that they killed, that are plugged up with plastic baits...and rightly so...littering should not happen.

but stocked trout are programmed in the hatchery to eat pellets off the bottom of the fish tank....and largely any pond with plastic on the the bottom would be a pond frequented by warmwater fishermen since bass and panfish are targetted primarily with soft plastic baits.

Littering is certainly problem, people should be educated to not throw used tackle overboard....but if hatchery trout were not put in those waters the trout would'nt be eating that crap in the first place.....so maybe IFAW should stop stocking put and take fish in these marginal warmwater ponds and then people sensibilities would not get all bent out of shape...

As an example of how liittering with plastic is a problem....monofilamen t line (is also plastic) and is also a problem in the environment (in fact it is more durable than the plastic used in soft plastic baits) and it certainly harms wildlife but there is "no effort" to ban it. Rather there are educational efforts to tell fishermen to not litter the streams and pond with thier tippet and leaders and lines.

I beleive in other ALO fisheries where plastic bait has been banned that biodegradable bait is allowed.....so if plastic is banned in Maine in ALO then the rules governing what ALO lures and baits would have to be modified in order for biodegradable plastic to replace the petroleum based plastics we now have.

The plastic baits when the get puffy are the first step in how they eventually break down...I do not endorse people littering with anythiing ...but banning certain tackle and punishing a large group of ALO anglers and manufacturers seems at this point to be a political snafu...because the same folks who now advocate against the use of plastic in ALO were the same folks who advocated that biodgradable plastic was the same as bait and should be taken out of ALO in Maine.

I don't have a problem with banning soft plastic, because i don' like the fact that garbage is thrown around and millions of tons of the stuff is thrown into lakes and ponds every year... but it would have to be grandfathered over the course of a few years, you could stop it's sale in Maine and then allow people to fish with whatever baits they have already purchased...with date when they would become totally illegal say 2015...Just like when lead was taken out of shot shells for duck hunting.... but also the industry would have to be provided leeway to sell biodegradable baits that would be legal for use as a replacement.

All biodegradable plastic is made from corn based materials...and that is just the way it is....

[cap]

I believe a vast majority of the soft plastic scattered around the bottom of lakes and ponds is "littered" material, and therefore angler education would go far in stopping the littering going on, and therefor would help to alleviate the problem. Maybe some folks think they degrade quicker than they do?

Course this won't stop the actual break offs.

Again I do not endorse the littering...but I also think that a put and take trout that is killed or is gonna die anyway because the water quality he resides in is not ideal trout habitat, should not be the reason that soft baits are banned....I could care whether a trout who is programed to eat crap off the bottom of a lake where anglers are pigs and litterers dies from eating the litter.

I would only support the ban as a way to prevent plastic pollution...so if biodegradable plastic is available for use in replacement...then no worries...

otherwise it is not thought through well enough..

if plastic (rubber is banned) will rubber legged stonefly flies be illegal for use in Maine waters?

Will all synthetic plastic skirts be illegal? Will synthetic furs and synthetic hairs like Enrico Puglisi Fibers (which are a petroleum derivative plastic) be banned as well?

[tundraboy]

Very well said cap.......

[Scalloper]

What killed it ?

But really, was a big bait? I’m wondering if smaller stuff might not be as big of and issue. Other than cig butts, the only plastic stuff I’ve found was larger than 2”. Could it be if the restriction didn’t include 2” and under it might solve some of the issue. . I know panfish guys, like me ,  use pretty small stuff.

I would be fine seeing all the stuff I use being biodegrable. that would take a pretty far reaching industry change. It would lessen the need for petroleum based baits and may boost farm product sales......Just conjecturing

The trout looked very sickly so I killed it and cut it open to see if I could tell why it looked the way it did. In the past I have seen long thin worms in sickly looking salmon from Tunk and soft plastics in togue from sickly looking fish in WG.

[cap]

I don't think most people in Maine know the actual ruling on biodegradable bait like Gulp, etc.

This is direct from IFAW -

Are artificial baits with natural scents considered artificial lures? No. Artificial lures with natural scents are not considered artificial lures under DIFW’s current fishing rules. These types of lures can be used on waters with general law terminal tackle restrictions, but not on waters that have artificial lure only (ALO) regulations.

An artificial lures only rule prohibits the use of any live, dead or chemically preserved natural or organic bait or food.

Last I heard corn was food and was a natural product with natural scent.

So therefore under current law all the available biodegradable plastics which are available for use are made from derivatives of corn and technically they are food and they have "natural" scents as well so they are NOT LEGAL FOR ALO.

So actually biodegradable plastic bait is classified as bait and will not be legal for use in ALO waters.

Don't you see that this legislation banning petroleum based plastic, comes on the heals of a regulation that already previously banned biodegradable plastic from ALO waters???

What is left to fish in ALO?   Spinners, crankbaits and hair jigs?

People please go to the website and click the link which send an email to the Maine state legislators telling then this is an ill thought out plan.

I don't want my plastic bats taken away from me in ALO waters anymore than I want my live fish as bait taken away from me in general law water!

I just want to be left alone to fish the way I please with the tackle I have used for 50 years!

as far as I can see just about everyone of these proposals has some self serving benefit to the folks who initially propose them...

This proposal was initiated by Lance Wheaton, a guy who advocated against bass tournaments on the lake the he himself guides on and exploits for his own profit, and then there is this from George Smith's blog http://www.georgesmi... ... bber-worms

Lance Wheaton spoke for the bill, recognizing “this is a tough issue” and reporting that he didn’t support the bill as written. Turns out he thinks it doesn’t go far enough. And then he broke out what he called “some gruesome pictures” of fish caught with rubber lures inside or hanging out of their bodies. One fish had 17 pieces of rubber!

He also handed out biodegradable lures and bait that he’d made himself. “I’d like to see manufacturers making these,” he said.

Uh huh...ole Lance is just looking out for the environment....

Doesnt anyone else think all this legislative stuff is just more of the same self serving BS?!?

[blacktrap]

The current biodegradeable baits are not as effective as soft plastics that are available and are not made in all the variations on the market.  Some bass anglers have thousands and thousands of dollars of soft plastic lures in their tackle, is the state going to reimburse us for that?  Most of the stuff laying on the bottom is coming from people that throw used baits overboard and guys that are not rigging properly or replacing baits as soon as they get any damage on them.  Rigging them correctly (using super glue to help works great) eliminates a lot of problems.  Most clubs and avid bass fisherman have A LOT of awareness about this and are making an effort to keep lures from ending up on the bottom.

[saltyshores]

     As many of you know, I am a retired Regional Fisheries Biologist from the Fish and Wildlife Department’s Jonesboro office after 38 years on the job. I was a member of the Fisheries SCUBA Dive team and was the species author and primary investigator for Maine’s smallmouth and largemouth bass for more than 15 years. I am also an avid bass angler. Here’s some information that pertains to the discussion of soft plastic lures.
    Maine Fish and Wildlife issued a press release on 4/27/2009, “strongly urging anglers to protect Maine’s fish by changing from soft plastic lures to biodegradable ones.”
    A wide variety of Maine’s fish species pick up soft plastic lures and swallow them. Maine biologists have found soft plastics in smallmouth and largemouth bass, brook trout, lake trout, brown trout, rainbow trout, splake, and landlocked salmon. It is less commonly seen in the stomachs of bass because of their ability to regurgitate stomach contents, as many anglers have seen while reeling in bass.
    A creel survey on East Grand Lake showed that 10% of lake trout and 20% of brook trout had soft plastic lures in their stomachs. At another lake, one party of anglers reported catching 10 brook trout on one day, and 8 of the 10 had soft plastics in them.
    In many cases of fish stomachs cut open during creel surveys or netting samples, biologists have found as many as 4-11 individual soft plastics, with one additional lake trout with 18 soft plastics, but the “record” is one lake trout weighing about 4 pounds that had 32 soft plastic lures in its stomach! Fish do not digest nor pass soft plastics from their digestive system, so it remains as a digestive tract blockage for the rest of their life, reducing the available space for proper digestion and sometimes causing loss of weight..
    Loons that are found dead in Maine are necropsied at Tufts University. Researcher Mark Holcrist has found 4 or 5 loons that had soft plastic in their stomachs.
    A cooperative study between Maine Fish and Wildlife’s pathologist Dr. Russell Danner, biologist Francis Brautigam, and Unity College’s professor Jim Chacko showed that 65% of brook trout consumed soft plastic lures that were dropped in the water, retaining them for at least 13 weeks when they were necropsied. Soft plastics in fish stomachs can cause ulcers, loss of weight, and anorexia, which was observed in this study. Dr. Danner urged anglers “to voluntarily purchase biodegradable and food-based lures rather than soft plastic ones. Also, we are asking anglers not to discard plastic lures into any waters.”
    Leading companies for biodegradable soft-molded fishing lures are Berkeley, Big Bite Bio Baits, Food Source Lures, Fishbites, Advanced Angling Technology, and others will likely enter the market when states mandate their use. Cost is very similar to traditional soft plastics.
Big Bite Bio Bait used tested this bait against conventional soft plastics, swapping both baits with various anglers. The biodegradable bait won in all cases.  Fish with Bio Bait in the stomach were checked after one week, finding that it was already breaking down
    The U.S. Fish and Wildlife estimates that 20 million pounds of soft plastic is lost and deposited in the water annually.
    People may think this is an attempt to shut down a favorite and effective group of lures they want to use, leaving them with no suitable alternative. This is not the intent. The intent is for Maine to lead the way in the switch to biodegradable soft fishing lures, so we do not further litter the bottom of our lakes with plastic that has a lifespan of more than 200 years and is picked up by fish for many generations, allowing it to create digestive tract blockages in generations of fish for decades to come.
    I’d like to see Maine anglers band together to support the use of biodegradable soft lures and work out any legal and definition problems to permit its use instead of soft plastics for the benefit of the fish from now into the future.

32 pieces of soft plastic from a Maranacook Lake togue


11 pieces of soft plastic from a Mousam Lake togue


3 pieces of soft plastic from a Range Pond brook trout

[SwedishPimple]

Very informative Salty.  What are your thought on jigs?  I am specifically talking about the "jig and pig" technique.  I have never seen any pictures of a fish with one of these consumed.  This law would outlaw the use of a jig with a silicone skirt I assume?

[Scalloper]

Thanks for the info Salty.

[cap]

salty shores brings up the key point...

the rules are ambiguous...

here is what IFAW recommended in 2009   ie 

Maine Fish and Wildlife issued a press release on 4/27/2009, “strongly urging anglers to protect Maine’s fish by changing from soft plastic lures to biodegradable ones.”

and

Dr. Danner urged anglers “to voluntarily purchase biodegradable and food-based lures rather than soft plastic ones. Also, we are asking anglers not to discard plastic lures into any waters.”

however they also say this more recently..after haveing fisheries advocates push for Gulp and other biodegradable baits be removed from trout and salmonid waters....they claimed they were bait and follwong the Mad Avenue line that "They actually worked better than bait!" hahahahahahahah

Are artificial baits with natural scents considered artificial lures? No. Artificial lures with natural scents are not considered artificial lures under DIFW’s current fishing rules. These types of lures can be used on waters with general law terminal tackle restrictions, but not on waters that have artificial lure only (ALO) regulations.

An artificial lures only rule prohibits the use of any live, dead or chemically preserved natural or organic bait or food.

Many arguments have been had on other fishing forums concerning the use of biodegradable artificial baits like Gulp etc and wether they are legal in ALO.

[EASTGRANDEST]

Well we dont have to worry about littering now. Looks like the fish are picking up all the plastic bait for us anyway!! WIN WIN.

[cap]

we cross posted

[Turnbuckle]

The trout looked very sickly so I killed it and cut it open to see if I could tell why it looked the way it did. In the past I have seen long thin worms in sickly looking salmon from Tunk and soft plastics in togue from sickly looking fish in WG.

These are only the stocked togue in West Grand though? I think I read only the stocked fish eat plastics 

Thanks for the info Salty.

X2
I was suprised by this comment of Ricks
"A creel survey on East Grand Lake showed that 10% of lake trout and 20% of brook trout had soft plastic lures in their stomachs."

Good to hear from a professional.

[MEyota79]

I think the horse is dead 

[cap]

Surely 'better' biodegradable baits will become available...however biodegradable baits already are available yet they do not legally replace the petrochemical based plastic baits that are in use according to Maine law.

This is a problem caused by the definition of ALO which prohibits the use of chemically preserved natural or organic bait or food.

Any newly developed biodegradable baits, will not be any different then what current biodegradable baits have as their "base materials"...which are necessarily based on bio/organic/plant/ materials (this is what makes biodegrade).

You throw an apple core or a banana peel out into the woods...they will both biodegrade very quickly...you throw a plastic water or milk bottle out into the woods it does'nt biodegrade, at least not for a very very long time

Hence ALO regs will need to be modified to allow for the biodegradable baits to be legal for use in ALO waters.

The bottom line is that biodegradable plastic is based on a variety of natural chemicals which are derived from plant material the most common being polylactic acid which is made from corn.

Not only that, but many biodegradable plastics are only partially made from these natural organic substances while the remainder remains synthetic and petrochemical based plastic. Will they be allowed even if they biodegradable but they still are "plastic"?

Scientifically based solutions to problems once again take a back seat to solutions derived by hand wringing advocate activists who have BA degrees in English Literature, or Renaissance Art History, who influence the decision making of politicians who have degrees in Political "Science" or Secondary School Education.

[saltyshores]

These are only the stocked togue in West Grand though? I think I read only the stocked fish eat plastics 

Not sure if this was a "tongue in cheek" comment, Turnbuckle,  but togue haven't been stocked in West Grand since the late 1980's. As with many togue waters, they were stocked years ago and have abundant populations now from natural reproduction.

Thanks for your comments!

Rick

[Turnbuckle]

Not sure if this was a "tongue in cheek" comment, Turnbuckle,  but togue haven't been stocked in West Grand since the late 1980's. As with many togue waters, they were stocked years ago and have abundant populations now from natural reproduction.

Rick

Tongue in cheek. 

[saltyshores]

Thought so

[blacktrap]

Same togue that the limit was increased on to thin them out