4361 and 4362 public act any one see these yet??

[chilly-willy]

Just giving a heads up to michiganders that goverment not doing us right. here is some more info on subject of 4361 and 4362 .. just giving us michigan details and a heads up.. I  don't want to arguing which I know we all can do..  this is just a alert post about goverment and it defrauding ways..


https://youtu.be/ZWxLw72tPr4

[scout 2]

 Been all over the other websites and he is trying to back pedal now big time. The was a piece on the news tonight about it and I thought the a hole was going to cry. This whole thing has lake association written all over both bills

[Bucket Rump]

Yeah, been a lot of backlash over this - No way this gets through.

[chilly-willy]

Yeah, been a lot of backlash over this - No way this gets through.

Good to hear! just glad people are alert..

[P Meyette]

these 2 bills are total bs common people get a hold of your local senator and house members , sign the petitons that is out

[tomturkey]

So true Snitch. !!!

I think we should go to a part time legislature like AK has. it would do away with most of the present legislators that are just their to make them selves richer.


I saw that interview last night. That guy looked like he was not that bright to start with. The bill he was in on just proved it.

[chilly-willy]

Very true snitch..  just got to remember these Idiots are running goverment.   with them come stupid bills/laws Like these!  And it's good to post to get word around .. if you don't they pass .. yep I think we should do away with  politiations the way they are  there worthless at that.. most of all if we alllow them to steal and recieve kick backs etc..  it's our fAult for not voting them out..  but I can see thinkings changing real quick.. cause a lot of people noticing what really happening!!

[P Meyette]

please stop this bull sign the petition

[3300]

these 2 bills are total bs common people get a hold of your local senator and house members , sign the petitons that is out

please stop this bull sign the petition

Link?

[Joe in T.C.]

The Bill Is Dead!

Here is the link:

https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/03/proposed-restrictions-on-inland-lake-access-hours-sinks-with-boaters.html

Good Luck all 

[3300]

1 down and 1 to go!

HOUSE BILL No. 4361 still in play?
Where is the petition to sign?

[Joe in T.C.]

This is the site to sign the petition against 4362, I haven't been able to find the one for 4361, Has anybody else found it?

https://www.change.org/p/jason-sheppard-stop-hb-4362-limiting-boating-on-inland-lake?fbclid=IwAR29Upg_3C-QCNkidG6_B0b2IfMJUtZP2VA5Hq_w-0IhOCU50KUa5fta7aw

[Hooked up]

House bill 4361 would allow you to fish a private Lake without a state license. Why would you be against it and for more government control on what you can do on your own private stocked lake. Most likely most of the people that are fishing the private lake have a state fishing license because they're likely fishing other lakes in the state. I can't remember another state I live in that you needed a fishing license to fish on your own property. I know for sure the last state (Montana) that I live in you don't need a license to fish private property.

[Joe in T.C.]

House Bill 4361 looks to amend an existing bill. Proposed amendments are in red.

looks like only the people living on the lake that pay association fees and stock the lake won't need a license.
I'm not sure how I feel on this one. 

March 13, 2019, Introduced by Reps. Sheppard and LaGrand and referred to the Committee on Natural Resources and Outdoor Recreation.

 A bill to amend 1994 PA 451, entitled

"Natural resources and environmental protection act,"

by amending section 43532 (MCL 324.43532), as amended by 2016 PA 463.

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN ENACT:

Sec. 43532. (1) An all-species fishing license entitles the

 licensee to take and possess all aquatic species as prescribed by law.

  (2) An EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED IN SUBSECTION (3), AN

 individual 17 years of age or older shall not take or possess an

aquatic species, except aquatic insects, in the waters over which

this state has jurisdiction without a license. The fee for a

resident all-species fishing license is $25.00. The fee for a

nonresident all-species fishing license is $75.00.

(3) AN INDIVIDUAL WHO RESIDES ON A QUALIFIED PRIVATE LAKE IS

NOT REQUIRED TO OBTAIN AN ALL-SPECIES FISHING LICENSE WHILE FISHING

ON THAT QUALIFIED PRIVATE LAKE. AN INDIVIDUAL SHALL POSSESS HIS OR

HER DRIVER LICENSE, STATE PERSONAL IDENTIFICATION CARD, OR OTHER

PROOF THAT HE OR SHE RESIDES ON THE QUALIFIED PRIVATE LAKE WHILE

FISHING UNDER THIS SUBSECTION.

(4) THE department shall develop an electronic license that allows an individual to display

an electronic copy of his or her all-species fishing license using

an electronic device.

(5) AS USED IN THIS SECTION, "QUALIFIED PRIVATE LAKE" MEANS A

LAKE THAT MEETS BOTH OF THE FOLLOWING:

(A) THERE IS NO PUBLIC ACCESS TO THAT LAKE.

(B) INDIVIDUALS WHO RESIDE ON THE LAKE PAY A FEE TO AN

ASSOCIATION OR GROUP THAT USES THAT FEE, OR A PORTION OF THAT FEE,

TO STOCK FISH IN THE LAKE.

Here is how it reads now:

324.43532 All-species fishing license; fees; electronic license.
Sec. 43532.

(1) An all-species fishing license entitles the licensee to take and possess all aquatic species as prescribed by law.

(2) An individual 17 years of age or older shall not take or possess an aquatic species, except aquatic insects, in the waters over which this state has jurisdiction without a license. The fee for a resident all-species fishing license is $25.00. The fee for a nonresident all-species fishing license is $75.00.

(3) Not later than March 1, 2018, the department shall develop an electronic license that allows an individual to display an electronic copy of his or her all-species fishing license using an electronic device.

Good Luck All 

[RyanW]

So, if a lake isn’t artificially stocked, is it still considered “private”?

[Bucket Rump]

And by this new proposed language it appears that if a lake is indeed qualified as "private" only people who reside on the property can fish it - no mention of guests.

[Gills-only]

And has a lake association that used part of fees to stock fish. Good point about guests, as says owners who live on lake. The CO gonna have to be a lawyer to sort all that out !!

[DR.SPECKLER]

So doubt that bill will pass,but what if you have a cottage on a private lake but reside elsewhere?need a lisence because address is not the cottage address?either way its a silly bill.lol

[Bucket Rump]

As already stated, "most" people who live on private lakes usually fish somewhere else, as well.  Therefore, they will still be buying a fishing license.  I think there will be minimal loss in license revenue.  Having said that, I guess any loss in not good!  Visitors fishing the lake is an easy one.  Your drivers license has your address on it!  Either you live on the lake or your don't.  Guess I don't see any need for the CO's to be lawyers.  The only thing affecting me is the small loss in license revenue, since I don't own property on private lake and most likely never will.  Unless, of coarse, I win the lotto!  Then I might have more of an invested interest!  Now the other bill does effect most fishermen and some hunters, as well.  Don't tell me I have to wait until 8 o'clock to start fishing, or putting out duck decoys!!!   Or, tell me I can't fish at night.

So you're good with the scenario of my son, who now resides out of state, having to pay $75 when he visits for the weekend and wants to fish a PRIVATE pond/lake that he grew up fishing?  No definition in the proposed bill of what a "lake" is, by the way.  This proposed bill is just another way to take away rights and create a path to more revenue via bogus fines.  Must reside on the property - give me a break.  Goes right along with having to buy a $48 TRAIL sticker so I can unload my snowmobile in the PARKING LOT of a state owned launch, but I can park my truck there for $11 - what a joke.

[Joe in T.C.]

I received an Email back from Representative Jason Sheppard.
Here is his explanation for House Bill 4362:
 

Thank you for your email.  I'd like the opportunity to clarify my intent in introducing House Bill 4362.

Currently, there are several lakes throughout Michigan that limit hours of access for speedboats and waterskiing (even though there is an existing state law that sets the time for water skiing on all lakes--one hour before sunrise and one hour after sunset; MCL 324.80151 hb))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-324-80151" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(x4gvhswowhqpyenh5iiipv hb))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-324-80151) between 10am and 6:30pm.  Meaning that these specific lakes do not allow these activities after 6:30 pm or before 10 am.  With today’s families’ schedules, 6:30 pm doesn’t make sense.  Especially with Michigan summers having sunsets well past 6:30 pm. I’ve provided a link to the DNR’s website which lists these lakes, by county:https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-350-79136_79772_79773_83491---,00.html I found that many of these time restrictions were set in the mid-1960s.  In addition to not being consistent with other lakes around the state, again, I felt that these hours do not represent today’s families’ schedules—which is why I wanted to expand these hours from 6:30 pm to sunset on the lakes that currently have restrictions.  Let me be clear, my intent was never to limit access. However, I understand that’s exactly what HB 4362 does now and I am committed to working to correct this mistake.

While I EXPANDED lake access for these specific lakes by at least 2 hours on each end, VERY UNFORTUNATELY, what I also did was LIMIT all boating after sunset and before 8am—this includes anyone who fishes/hunts or simply wants to take a low-key cruise around the lake. I cannot state enough that this was NEVER my intent.  As a result of this error, I am currently working on substitute language to clear this up. The Michigan United Conservation Clubs issued a statement in support of my commitment to fixing the language:  https://mucc.org/current-bill-to-restrict-boating-practices-likely-to-change/   

My goal for this bill was always to EXPAND access for people on the specific lakes that currently have restrictions that do not reflect today's families' schedules. All-sports lakes that currently restrict activities from 10 am to 6:30 pm.

As you can imagine, I have heard from hundreds of people on this bill.  And I certainly appreciate the feedback—it will help moving forward.  However, many have vilified me without being open to accepting my admission of my mistake.  It simply does not make sense why ANYONE in the state legislature would try to LIMIT lake access—we are, after all, the GREAT LAKES STATE.  It seems there are some who would much rather believe that someone has bad intentions rather than accept that people make mistakes.  I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to explain my thinking prior to the bill being introduced and your understanding that mistakes happen.  Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions.

Sincerely,

Jason Sheppard
56th District

Mistake or intended, Thank you all for keeping an eye on our elected officials.

Good Luck All 

[Bucket Rump]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he need to buy a license now?

Nope - not for a stocked farm pond or lake completely on private property.  See explanation beginning on page 13.   

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/Water97e_142928_7.pdf

[Gills-only]

More than one owner it don’t qualify need fishing license I’m pretty sure, or a inlet or outlet

[Bucket Rump]

That’s a good question, Snitch.

[Joe in T.C.]

On House Bill 4362 I still don't like it

I emailed Rep Jason Shepperd Back
here is what I sent him:

Rep. Jason Sheppard,

Thank you for your response.

This makes more sense now.

But I still have a question on the time limits.

All sports lakes are for all sports and they are not meant to be tailored to anyone's specific families’ schedule.

Not allowing high-speed boating that creates large wakes early in the morning and later in the evening is to allow other sporting activities to enjoy the lakes as well.

Such activities as Fishing, kayaking, canoeing and maybe just a slow cruise around the lake in a pontoon boat.

I find spending time on the lake at dusk and dawn to be very peaceful and good for the soul.

I also agree that waterskiing, tubing, jet skis, and personal watercraft are outrageous fun for the whole family.

I feel high-speed boating late morning to early evening and then slower sports early morning and late evening is the definition of sharing our great resources.

Although this bill would expand boating opportunities for speedboats and waterskiing it would in turn limit other sports.

Thank you for your time,

Joe

Hope I am interpreting his intentions correctly

Good Luck All 

[chilly-willy]

My question is how does this effect fishermen of the great lakes etc.. ??  If there not buying licences it cuts stocking and other revenue for state including c/o's etc..  so looks like to me these politions don't know there arse from there elbow..  mostly cause the dnr is lacking funds right now.. not only are they screwin them there screwing us all for their stupidy.. another thing to look at is these guys right here and why the dnr and c/o"s need funding!any how see link of why we need dnr snd co's

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/3160597002

[Hooked up]

My question is how does this effect fishermen of the great lakes etc.. ??  If there not buying licences it cuts stocking and other revenue for state including c/o's etc..  so looks like to me these politions don't know there arse from there elbow..  mostly cause the dnr is lacking funds right now.. not only are they screwin them there screwing us all for their stupidy.. another thing to look at is these guys right here and why the dnr and c/o"s need funding!any how see link of why we need dnr snd co's

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/3160597002

As I stated before, most people this effects will have also bought a state fishing license. If they are willing to pay the cost of stocking the lake (which is a requirement of the bill) it is probably safe to assume they like to fish and  most likely are fishing on public waters. If not no worries, I sure the state sales tax on the fish they bought was more than $25

[Hooked up]

The problem with this is that "No One" knows what it will cost anyone!  Will the sportsmen who don't live on a private lake lose out by loss of revenue?  Will the lake owner save money by not having to buy a license?  Will Michigan's economy lose out?  About the only one I think that will come out ahead is the politician putting this through!  Guarantee there are kickbacks in the works, there usually are.

Not so sure about your "Guarantee there are kickbacks" I suppose there could be. But I wonder how much money someone would pay an elected official to facilitate a bill that would save them $25. Maybe a $5 bribe, but probably not enough for state rep. to commit  a crime. Possibly the person paying the bribe could convince 999 property owners to commit this crime with them and put in $5 a piece and come up with a $5000 kickback.

[Hooked up]

Really?  You don't think that all of the home owner associations wouldn't put in $1,000.00 a piece, for their owners not to have to pay license fees, forever?  How many associations are there in Michigan?  Thousands?  How much would it cost each home owner, statewide, maybe ten bucks?  Believe me, there is "ALWAYS" a way for a politician to make extra money!!!  If you don't thinks so, you must have been born yesterday, because you are very naďve.  They don't run for office just so that they can make a difference.  And, if they do, it doesn't take long for someone with money to persuade them to do something lucrative.  Ask yourself this question, if no one is going to benefit from the bill, why make it a law?  Having said that, someone is going to benefit and "THEY" are willing to pay for it!!!  Enough said.

No,  I don't think you could even find one Lake Association to bribe an elected official. Lake Associations are made up of many people and there is no way everyone in an association is going to agree to bribe a state rep. It only takes one person to blow the whistle and people would be going to jail. I think this bill came up for far less sinister reasons then you are thinking. Very simply there are many states that do no require a license to fish private property and Michigan is just following suit. It is possible you are right and I am wrong,  but I hope we living in a better world/state.