IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
Ice Fishing Tips -Check your local regulations! => Northern Pike => Topic started by: blackmer826 on Feb 24, 2012, 08:41 PM
-
Does anyone make their own leaders? Do you tie your fluorocarbon or crimp it? Is it way better to crimp or is it ok to tie on swivels/snaps? what types of knots do you use to tie fluorocarbon to a swivel and snap? just want everyones opinion, youtube has told me afew diff knots to use ;)
-
i just use a barrel swivel. leave plenty of leader and u wont have a problem
-
barrel swivel two peices of line with 2 hooks you will never lose one lol ;D
-
I understand that, but I need to know if tieing your leaders is okay compared to crimping them. Is it a big difference in strength/dependability? Thanks
-
I tie my own flouro leaders, 20, 40, and 100 lb are what I've used, I recommend at least 40 for serious pike fishing though. I trust my knot more than a crimp, just a personal thing likely, it also makes the crimps one less thing I need to have. When using the heavy flouro for pike the breaking strength isn't really an issue anyways as you are way over in lb test than you need for break strength, its the diameter/hardness you need to stand up to abrasion. I use a uni knot, its by far the best i've used and i've tried all the popular ones (trilene, improved clinch, palomar) and a few others I've researched but don't know the names off hand. Even with 100 lb test a Uni knot is easy to tie, and makes a small neat looking knot, that you can cinch down tight very easily.
-
thanks alot, that was what I wanted to hear. I will be making my own stuff from now on as i think it will be better quality, atleast in my mind ;D, and it will hopefully save me money.
-
are crimps stronger though or not. alot of my problems this yr has been the crimps undoing and being just left with a swivel on my line. that is getting real old so I want to thing tying them will be better then crimping but idk.
-
are crimps stronger though or not. alot of my problems this yr has been the crimps undoing and being just left with a swivel on my line. that is getting real old so I want to thing tying them will be better then crimping but idk.
i never even thought 'crimping' my line as a option. i tie my own and have never had a problem.
-
I know many tie their own but just feeling out what is best, to tie swivels or crimp them on....
thanks for the advice
-
I know many tie their own but just feeling out what is best, to tie swivels or crimp them on....
thanks for the advice
I had that problem last year with my first crimped leaders (80lb fluoro) and I saw somewhere on iceshanty that you can't just crimp them flat, you have to actually use the cutters on your pliers to cut little grooves in the crimp. I first use pliers to flatten out the crimp and then I use the cutters to almost cut through the crimp in several places. I have had no problems since I started doing that.
-
I know many tie their own but just feeling out what is best, to tie swivels or crimp them on....
thanks for the advice
barrel swivels and tie your own. just my opinion.
-
alright cool. I will probably tie up a few for summer fishing and see how they work out for me. uni knot the best one to use.
-
i make all my own leaders until i get into the 50# test class and up, i have them made for me by a musky fisherman and pretty good email buddy in WI.
.
i've been using a palomar knot with lots of spit and pulling the tag end slowly. never had a knot break. i use the palomar on mono, fluorocarbon and the superbraids. if you are ''worried'' about a knot slipping, add a drop of superglue after your spit has dried.
.
the man who makes my heavy leaders sells on ebay as ''charlier''. i've never had one of his leaders break. he will make you any leader, any length, any components that you request. single strand wire, cajun redline, fluorocarbon, lengths from 8'' to i know over 6' because he has made them for me. not the cheapest but, IMO, the best. you can can use my screen ID - gooseblaster49707 if you want. Charlie is one of the goodguys on ebay. i hope i haven't stepped over the line by refering him.
-
has anyone used seaguar blue label fluorocarbon leader material? or the seaguar premier fluoro leader material? just wondering if its good stuff... trying to get some reviews.
Thanks
-
Seaguar Blue Label is all I use. I am going to pick up a couple spools of Premier this year and give it a try. It is supposed to be better than Blue Label all around, except it has a little more stretch.
-
i use 60 pound seaguar fluro and love it .
-
thanks guys. probly going to order either 50 or 60lb spool so i can tie up my own leaders. what is the best way to get beads to stay in a spot? tie a knot? I want to put some beads and a blade on a couple to try out but am curious what everyone uses to keep the beads from sliding down to the treble.
Thanks!!!!
-
i've crimped my floro for a long time, way before most ever thought of useing it for northerns and if you use the right crimp and the right tool knots are obsolete. from 27lb pike to 800lb marlin i never had a crimp go bad that i did myself.
since everyones useing floro for pike now i'll let you in on a secret, knots with floro fail more often then properly crimped, that's just fact! it's hard and doesn't perform as well as mono when put to it's limit when knotted.
dbd :tipup:
-
ok. so what is the proper crimp size and technique?The fluoro i am getting is the seaguar fluoro premier 50 lb which has a .024 diameter. I am not disregarding your advice, I appreciate the advice, but am skepticle on crimps as I had 4 crimps fail me last yr and my buddy lost a 15lb or bigger pike because of the crimp, not our knots.
-
or i might get the seaguar blue label 60 lb fluoro that has a diameter of .029.
I have no experience with crimping so any advice and techniques would be great from those who have had the success with crimps
-
ok. so what is the proper crimp size and technique?The fluoro i am getting is the seaguar fluoro premier 50 lb which has a .024 diameter. I am not disregarding your advice, I appreciate the advice, but am skepticle on crimps as I had 4 crimps fail me last yr and my buddy lost a 15lb or bigger pike because of the crimp, not our knots.
here ya go: http://www.meltontackle.com/products/jinkai-crimps.html
http://www.meltontackle.com/products/heavy-duty-crimp-tool-cn-10.html these will work fine.
http://www.meltontackle.com/products/jinkai-hand-crimper.html i use these.
i use 80lb and 100lb and find no difference in # of bites over lighter floro, but if you want to fight 20lb fish on 50lb floro, have at it. if it crosses the right tooth at the right angle with the right force, yes 80 has failed once for me.
-
or i might get the seaguar blue label 60 lb fluoro that has a diameter of .029.
I have no experience with crimping so any advice and techniques would be great from those who have had the success with crimps
nothing beats exsperience, so get the right crimpers and test a few, i use a pneumatic one i built and the pressure builds at a steady rate. when the line breaks you have perfect crimps, if your crimp fails your doing something wrong!
-
Going to order some 60lb premier Seaguar leader material. time to experiment.
-
For those who tie....what knots do you use to tie on the barrel swivel and your trebles?
-
Palomar Knots
-
that is my go to knot for everything, but wanted to hear from others who make their own leaders. I am going to crimp some also but might try and see how it is tying my own also.
what does everyone use to keep beads and blades above hook? how far above the hook do you put your beads and blades? or do you let them slide on the leader with nothing stopping them?
-
beads and blades...don't need them ;)
-
i want to try a couple on 2 of my leaders to see the results. Alot of pple talk about catching more fish because of the color and flashiness of them.
I want to submit my order but do not want to get the wrong size crimps. I am wondering how much bigger the crimps should be compared to the diameter of fluoro. For example, some crimps say a max leader diameter of 1.0mm, the 80lb leader material has a .780 so that would give me room to run the leader material through adn crimp down, but is that too much room? I have never done this so sry for the questions....
-
i use 80lb and 100lb with size J crimps, i like my line size on the upper end value of the crimps verses being at the bottom. if your getting 60lb i would use 50lb crimps and adjust my crimper to not over crimp the slightly larger dia. of the 60lb. you mayl not be able to catch mulltiple big pike on 60lb and have to swap out leaders more and you could end up with a couple of those "i lost the biggest pike of my life at the hole" stories.
dbd :tipup:
-
I ordered Seaguar Premier 80lb and crimps so hopefully in a week or two I will have my stuff to get started. experimentation time.
I shouldn't have to swap out that often with 80lb should I? I have never swapped before unless the leader got really f'ed up.
-
I used to think crimps were evil........... then I started thinking about our saltwater friends and what they do. I figure if they trust crimps for fish much bigger than I 'm likely to catch, then so can I.
Advantages for crimps: easy, strong, reliable (if done correctly), no tag ends to catch weeds
Disadvantages: extra cost, added weight, possible to install incorrectly,
So....... I still tie up to 60# for those that prefer knots, a three wrap Uni is easy and strong. I crimp some for my personal use but I'm still torn. good thing I like to experiment. All my 100-130# musky leaders are crimped.
For a comprehensive crimping primer check this out: http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/crimp_techniques.html (http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/crimp_techniques.html)
Some of the biggest things I learned was to A - use the proper tool for the crimp style, B - use the proper crimp material based on your leader material and C - leave the ends of the crimp flared out a bit to minimize wear on your leader.
Learn to tie a good knot or crimp properly and you'll be fine. Some folks can't trust either one so they do both. I don't happen to think that's necessary.
/m
-
sounds good. I actually checked out that site and read through the tips and saved it to my favorites for when my material shows up. one thing i didn't understand in that article was the whole tipabout burning the tag end....i guess i just have to experiment and see what works...unfortunately this may mean loosing a fish, but hopefully not. I have always used steal and fluoro leaders..can't really see a difference in fishi catching ratios, but have never had a knot break(palomar) but have had crimps come undone so....hopefully my crimps are better..then i have the best of both worlds
-
does everyone leave a little loop at the hook end so the hook can move a bit or do you tie a knot right tight to the hook? I am not usuing a snap swivel I want to hook direct to the hook/hooks so just wondering what everyone does.
thanks
-
i tie directly to the hook . just my opinion
-
does everyone leave a little loop at the hook end so the hook can move a bit or do you tie a knot right tight to the hook? I am not usuing a snap swivel I want to hook direct to the hook/hooks so just wondering what everyone does.
thanks
When I don't use crimps I just tie a loop knot with the hook in the loop. I haven't had one slip yet and it's easy to tie even with thick floro.
-
aren't there several loops knot to choose from? i have heard 3-4 diff loop knots to try from others.
-
I just make a loop and tie a single overhand knot.
-
been doing alot of searching. what i seem to be finding is that a properly crimped leader will not slip, usually something else will fail or the mainline will break from exceeding its strength. Also some people throughout forums tie and crimp, overkill yes but probably provides the best precaution to any slip or breaking....
-
crimpers, crimps, and leader material on the way. can't wait to start this experiment....
-
crimpers, crimps, and leader material on the way. can't wait to start this experiment....
cranberry lake is in trouble now! ;D
-
lol. ;D I dont harm the lake like many others, always catch and release unless the fish are hurt bad. many keep everything they catch and take the big ones outta town to win other derbies. that hurts the lake.
anyways...
-
For musky I always use ball bearing swivels and at least 50 lb flurocarbon ( I have had one musky snap it like thread.) Other than him, never a break off or knot slip. I always use palomar knots. For pike this year I am using 60 lb flurocarbon, ball bearing swivels and a trebel.
-
ya i ordered 80 lb fluoro just so i can hopefully avooid loosin the dream fish.
-
For musky I always use ball bearing swivels and at least 50 lb flurocarbon ( I have had one musky snap it like thread.) Other than him, never a break off or knot slip. I always use palomar knots. For pike this year I am using 60 lb flurocarbon, ball bearing swivels and a trebel.
hey tracker i am wanting to chase musky here in indiana since we dont have a closed season on them.. what actual rig do you use hooks and all... thanks
-
Go knots, never had any fail-ever. faster and u can tie in the feild. with 50 lb you will need pliars for a nice tight sinch up.
-
alright leader makers. I just got my new cup to cup crimp tool, crimps and my 80 lb seaguar leader material. I am doing the crimps per everyones suggestions and all my research. Burn crimp end so it mushrooms a bit, then do the proper crimp, leaving a 1/16th on each end to flare up away from leader. everything seems to be going good. but when testing how much they can handle, they usually fail at 45-50lbs. maybe it is the way I am testing though. What i did was made up 3 leaders, and put one loop end on my digital game scale that goes to 330lbs. then the other loop end I put a screwdriver through to get some leverage and pull down steadily, not jerking. always breaks around 50lbs. the last one i just broke, the leader material itslef was fresh, no kinks, dings, etc right off the spool and where it broke the leader material broke and frayed like. Am i testing these too hard or what?
thanks
-
also messed around with my braided line. don't know what brand it is but its supposed to be 80lb. brand new stuff that I used last yr and never had a break off. this stuff is breaking at like 25-30lbs according to this scale and the mentioned strength test. I must be putting more on it that what is registering on the scale????
-
i use 60 pound seaguar fluro and love it .
Exactly what I use. I use crimps ....works great!
-
am i actually pulling more on the leader than what the scale is reading? i cant see two different 80 lb line and leader breaking at half strength.
-
here's some guidelines for testing, see if something is different maybe causeing the early termination/ under testing
dbd :tipup:
Step 1
Attach one end of a length of fishing line to a small diameter tree or branch with a uni knot. Form the knot by wrapping the line around the tree or limb and back alongside the main line forming a double line. Hold 2 inches of the double line in place and turn the free end back toward the tree or limb forming an elongated loop beneath the double line.
Step 2
Continue tying the knot by wrapping the free end of the line around the main line and through the elongated loop four times. Moisten the knot and pull it down tight. Use a standard fishing knot so that the test will prove to be more accurate.
Step 3
Form a simple loop in the opposite end of the line. Tie the loop by doubling the line 6 to 8 inches from the end to form a working loop. Hold the doubled line and turn the working loop down to form a second loop. Bring the working loop around the doubled line two to three times and then back through the second loop and pull tight.
Step 4
Attach the hook of a digital fish scale to the loop formed in the end of the line. Pull the line gently to take up the slack. Do not jerk or yank on the line during the test.
Step 5
Apply gradual tension to the line by holding the scale and stepping backwards. Watch the digital readout of the scale and continue to increase the tension on the line. Record the pounds indicated on the scale when the line eventually breaks. Repeat the test three times to obtain an average of the pound test strength of the line you are testing.
-
alright leader makers. I just got my new cup to cup crimp tool, crimps and my 80 lb seaguar leader material. I am doing the crimps per everyones suggestions and all my research. Burn crimp end so it mushrooms a bit, then do the proper crimp, leaving a 1/16th on each end to flare up away from leader. everything seems to be going good. but when testing how much they can handle, they usually fail at 45-50lbs. maybe it is the way I am testing though. What i did was made up 3 leaders, and put one loop end on my digital game scale that goes to 330lbs. then the other loop end I put a screwdriver through to get some leverage and pull down steadily, not jerking. always breaks around 50lbs. the last one i just broke, the leader material itslef was fresh, no kinks, dings, etc right off the spool and where it broke the leader material broke and frayed like. Am i testing these too hard or what?
thanks
Tie a palomar knot and then test see who wins ....
-
Bennett: do you mean for hard or soft water? I would fish for musky the same as pike. 50 lb fluorocarbon trebles. ( for ice)
-
I tried palomars, double surgeons knots and crimps and everything is breaking way below strength. it has got to be from the way I am testing.
I thought I would be able to test each one then put them in my tackled box for later use when I need them or want to switch them up because of blades/beads but I am afraid even when I get them to test to my satisfaction that they will be damaged from testing and loose strength.
-
I tried palomars, double surgeons knots and crimps and everything is breaking way below strength. it has got to be from the way I am testing.
I thought I would be able to test each one then put them in my tackled box for later use when I need them or want to switch them up because of blades/beads but I am afraid even when I get them to test to my satisfaction that they will be damaged from testing and loose strength.
your making it much harder than it really is! i haven't tested a leader in years, just make them and go fishing!
-
ya but everyone says to test them first. I dont want a failure on a 25lb pike :o
-
Use knots.
-
does anyone else have 80 lb Seaguar Fluoro Premier leader material?
With knots or crimps the leader material itself is breaking, not my knot or crimps....therefore I am trying to figure out if my strength testing is accurate.
-
very weird. maybe you got a bad role. ? My 60lb stuff is strong as hell, but I have never tried to test it.
-
it is stretching too so I think that when I pull it stretches so becomes less diameter and easier to break. idk.
-
Bennett: do you mean for hard or soft water? I would fish for musky the same as pike. 50 lb fluorocarbon trebles. ( for ice)
through the ice. i am a all season musky angler here in indiana . but i really havent done the ice deal. but this year i am wanting to get one through the ice... thanks for all this great info...bill
-
I have caught several through the ice. The same problem exists with the ice--that being-- their teeth cutting the leader. I use a flourocarbon leader with a red trebel without any breakoffs to date. They don't fight anywhere as near a much in winter but they are still scrappy and a blast. This year I am targeting pike, essentially the same as musky. (but you can eat them!!) So I am going to use 60 lb FC with palomar knots with a ball bearing swivel. I use 20-30 lb powerpro for the main line. Hope that helps! FT
-
Many years ago, I rigged a line strength and knot tester by mounting an old level wind reel and a zebco deliar to a board. I was able to test my knots and found that the number of twists in an improved clinch knot varied with the pound test I was tying. I believe 5 twists were ideal for 6 and 8 lb trilene xl if I remember correctly. Anyway, I could see what failed and at what weight it failed. Sometimes the main line would break, away from the knot, sometimes the knot would slip. I could see the tight curls left in the old knot location. Maybe this helps? I did tie to a large swivel, so I had it there to analyze after the failure. Going back to the previously mentioned failure at half strength... if 60 lb test is breaking at 30lb, you should be ok pulling in a pike. I haven't caught huge pike, but I'm guessing they can't pull thirty lbs worth? Now after the teeth factor comes in, you may not have 30lb of strength left but that can only be negated with steel or titanium. My 2 cents. Thanks for all the info sharing. I am gonna try the uni knot with some 40 lb flourocarbon.
-
Many years ago, I rigged a line strength and knot tester by mounting an old level wind reel and a zebco deliar to a board. I was able to test my knots and found that the number of twists in an improved clinch knot varied with the pound test I was tying. I believe 5 twists were ideal for 6 and 8 lb trilene xl if I remember correctly. Anyway, I could see what failed and at what weight it failed. Sometimes the main line would break, away from the knot, sometimes the knot would slip. I could see the tight curls left in the old knot location. Maybe this helps? I did tie to a large swivel, so I had it there to analyze after the failure. Going back to the previously mentioned failure at half strength... if 60 lb test is breaking at 30lb, you should be ok pulling in a pike. I haven't caught huge pike, but I'm guessing they can't pull thirty lbs worth? Now after the teeth factor comes in, you may not have 30lb of strength left but that can only be negated with steel or titanium. My 2 cents. Thanks for all the info sharing. I am gonna try the uni knot with some 40 lb flourocarbon.
I meant a Palomar Knot
-
Uni knot is by far the best knot. Actually its the only knot I could get to work with my 50# fluroro.
-
I have been crimping for years with segaur 40lb and have never had a failure with the crimp and we catch a lot of pike over 20lbs. have to watch the line for wear from the teeth above the hooks.
-
if you go to your local tackle store, pick up a couple that peak your interest, then go get the line, and hardware involved, look up knot tying on pc, it is that easy