what's heavier, cold water or frozen water?

[djkruszewski]

we were talking about this at work today and haven't figured it out yet.  i think cold water is heavier than frozen water, because a chunk of ice floats.  i could be wrong.  but also water is at it's denses at 39 degrees.  who else knows this answer.

[Josh B.]

It would vary from body of water to body of water.  The equation is D=Mass/Volume.  Mass and volume are both variables so the answer to your question can vary.

[POk3s]

I would think the same amount of cold water and the same amount of ice would weigh the same. Ice is just less dense than the water allowing it to float.

[dvsbruce]

You are correct. Ice is always lighter than water, that's why it floats.

[djkruszewski]

well anything that is more dense, wouldn't it weigh more?  i tell you we were definitely bored at work today, can't you tell.

[POk3s]

i can....lol.

It doesn't have to weigh more to be more dense.

[BlindSquirrel]

By volume, water is heavier than ice.  1 cubic foot of water is going to weigh more than 1 cubic foot of ice.

[hardysf]

Ice takes up about 9 % more space than water. Therefore a 5 gallon bucket of ice will weigh less than a 5 gallon bucket filled with water. If you let the bucket full of water freeze, they would weigh the same, but the bucket would expand from the freezing process, so you would technically have more than a bucket full of ice.

[djkruszewski]

here's another one we were talking about.  if you have 4 tires with 32 pounds of air pressure.  2 of those tires you were using and the other 2 sat still.  after using the 2 tires the air pressure would change and go up due to heat.  does that mean the 2 tires that are warmed up weigh more than the 2 sitting there?

[djkruszewski]

boy we were bored today!  lol  boy you guys probably think i am 

[Tomhusker]

 The weight of the tires would not change. The air pressure is the amount of pressure the air is putting against the surface of the tire, not the actual weight of the air.

[Jack Ryan]

You are correct. Ice is always lighter than water, that's why it floats.

If it weren't, it would get mighty uncomfortable with most of today's ice fishing equipment.

[rgfixit]

Why is water heavier than ice?

OK.........

In the liquid state, most water molecules are associated in a polymeric structure--that is, chains of molecules connected by weak hydrogen bonds. Under the influence of thermal agitation, there is a constant breaking and reforming of these bonds. In the gaseous state, whether steam or water vapour, water molecules are largely independent of one another, and, apart from collisions, interactions between them are slight. Gaseous water, then, is largely monomeric--i.e., consisting of single molecules--although there occasionally occur dimers (a union of two molecules) and even some trimers (a combination of three molecules). In the solid state, at the other extreme, water molecules interact with one another strongly enough to form an ordered crystalline structure, with each oxygen atom collecting the four nearest of its neighbours and arranging them about itself in a rigid lattice. This structure results in a more open assembly, and hence a lower density, than the closely packed assembly of molecules in the liquid phase. For this reason, water is one of the few substances that is actually less dense in solid form than in the liquid state, dropping from 1,000 to 917 kilograms per cubic metre. It is the reason why ice floats rather than sinking, so that, during the winter, it develops as a sheet on the surface of lakes and rivers rather than sinking below the surface and accumulating from the bottom. As water is warmed from the freezing point of 0 to 4C (from 32 to 39F), it contracts and becomes denser. This initial increase in density takes place because at 0C a portion of the water consists of open-structured molecular arrangements similar to those of ice crystals. As the temperature increases, these structures break down and reduce their volume to that of the more closely packed polymeric structures of the liquid state. With further warming beyond 4 C, the water begins to expand in volume, along with the usual increase in intermolecular vibrations caused by thermal energy.


That ought to take care of that question.....
RG

[bitzlecocker]

You guys have been at work way too long, you'd better get out before it's too late

[PCB]

if a bear craps in the woods.....

[Pail Rider]

What weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of rocks.  If you start off with equal parts of water in two containers, and freeze one of them, they will still both weigh the same.

[jimski2]

My TV camera has a temperature gauge on it and on the bottom of the lake it reads 39 degrees, so that is why the fish are down there, not on top except when the ice is covered with snow for a long time and the dissolved oxygen level declines and then the fish go higher in the water column and also near shore rather than in the middle of th lake. When a thaw starts and meltwater runs into the lake with new higher oxygen, then the fish go deeper.

[Raybob]

Yeppers RG ~ water has it's max weight gain @ 39 degrees & of course @ it's lightest solid state of ice at 32 degrees & below... learned that, for sure, fact in my Junior year of physics in 1960.

Why is water heavier than ice?

OK.........

In the liquid state, most water molecules are associated in a polymeric structure--that is, chains of molecules connected by weak hydrogen bonds. Under the influence of thermal agitation, there is a constant breaking and reforming of these bonds. In the gaseous state, whether steam or water vapour, water molecules are largely independent of one another, and, apart from collisions, interactions between them are slight. Gaseous water, then, is largely monomeric--i.e., consisting of single molecules--although there occasionally occur dimers (a union of two molecules) and even some trimers (a combination of three molecules). In the solid state, at the other extreme, water molecules interact with one another strongly enough to form an ordered crystalline structure, with each oxygen atom collecting the four nearest of its neighbours and arranging them about itself in a rigid lattice. This structure results in a more open assembly, and hence a lower density, than the closely packed assembly of molecules in the liquid phase. For this reason, water is one of the few substances that is actually less dense in solid form than in the liquid state, dropping from 1,000 to 917 kilograms per cubic metre. It is the reason why ice floats rather than sinking, so that, during the winter, it develops as a sheet on the surface of lakes and rivers rather than sinking below the surface and accumulating from the bottom. As water is warmed from the freezing point of 0 to 4C (from 32 to 39F), it contracts and becomes denser. This initial increase in density takes place because at 0C a portion of the water consists of open-structured molecular arrangements similar to those of ice crystals. As the temperature increases, these structures break down and reduce their volume to that of the more closely packed polymeric structures of the liquid state. With further warming beyond 4 C, the water begins to expand in volume, along with the usual increase in intermolecular vibrations caused by thermal energy.


That ought to take care of that question.....
RG

[Lobes]

here's another one we were talking about.  if you have 4 tires with 32 pounds of air pressure.  2 of those tires you were using and the other 2 sat still.  after using the 2 tires the air pressure would change and go up due to heat.  does that mean the 2 tires that are warmed up weigh more than the 2 sitting there?

It really depends on exactly what you're using these tires for. Let's just say for instance you were using the tires for lawn ornaments on a cool cloudy day. In this case there would probably be no change in their internal temperatures thus no change in weight.
Another point to consider is that air pressure in tires is measured in pounds per square so a tire with more internal surface area will yield more total outward force (or "stress") at 32 PSIG.
Now this has me thinking that maybe these tires would be better off if two were filled with water, and the other two were filled with ice because regardless what they were used for now they wouldn't necessarily have to be so stressed out!

                                                 
NBG

[Turkeyhunter10ga]

Why is water heavier than ice?

OK.........

In the liquid state, most water molecules are associated in a polymeric structure--that is, chains of molecules connected by weak hydrogen bonds. Under the influence of thermal agitation, there is a constant breaking and reforming of these bonds. In the gaseous state, whether steam or water vapour, water molecules are largely independent of one another, and, apart from collisions, interactions between them are slight. Gaseous water, then, is largely monomeric--i.e., consisting of single molecules--although there occasionally occur dimers (a union of two molecules) and even some trimers (a combination of three molecules). In the solid state, at the other extreme, water molecules interact with one another strongly enough to form an ordered crystalline structure, with each oxygen atom collecting the four nearest of its neighbours and arranging them about itself in a rigid lattice. This structure results in a more open assembly, and hence a lower density, than the closely packed assembly of molecules in the liquid phase. For this reason, water is one of the few substances that is actually less dense in solid form than in the liquid state, dropping from 1,000 to 917 kilograms per cubic metre. It is the reason why ice floats rather than sinking, so that, during the winter, it develops as a sheet on the surface of lakes and rivers rather than sinking below the surface and accumulating from the bottom. As water is warmed from the freezing point of 0 to 4C (from 32 to 39F), it contracts and becomes denser. This initial increase in density takes place because at 0C a portion of the water consists of open-structured molecular arrangements similar to those of ice crystals. As the temperature increases, these structures break down and reduce their volume to that of the more closely packed polymeric structures of the liquid state. With further warming beyond 4 C, the water begins to expand in volume, along with the usual increase in intermolecular vibrations caused by thermal energy.


That ought to take care of that question.....
RG

I agree with RG , whatever it is he said 
lets not worry about it and just go 

[rgfixit]

I just read my post and I'm not sure what I said.

Good news is it just turned from rain to big white flakes of snow. (The rain was heavier)

Were any of you guys around for the "water freezing on the windshield" thread a couple of years back......Shark....you out there?

RG

[Luffy]

RG,

That was pretty deep. 

Luffy

[rgfixit]

Tires eh???
Well,
It's true that as air gets colder, it gets more dense. There are more atoms of the various composite gasses and water molecules occupying less space. Per unit of volume, the air weighs more.

At 77 degrees (F) one cubic meter of air weighs 1.18 Kilograms. By the time your down to Minus 40 it weighs 1.5 kg.

Now,
Considering that all the tires hold the same basic volume of air, warm or cold, there's little chance that warm tire would actually weigh more or less than the cold tire.

RG

[fiesty]

you guys must be really bored....what weighs more? 5 2 pound crappies, or 10 pounds of walleye fillets?

[rgfixit]

10 lbs of brick is definitely heavier than both.
But, if you build the BBQ out of the bricks, eat the crappies and freeze the walleye............... ..

Thank heavens I'm going fishing in the morning. My brain hurts
RG

[POk3s]

You guys have been at work way too long, you'd better get out before it's too late

No kiddin'. Apparently you don't do anything anyway but sit there and talk so you might as well go fish...lol.

[papaperch]

Ok lets try this one tonight the temperature is going to be 0 degrees.

Tommorow night it is supposed to be twice as cold.

What will the thermometer read ?

Hint : it won't be Zero

[john t.]

let's try minus 1

[gunner]

Water is more dense at around 4 degrees less dense at zero (that is why it floats in your rye and ginger) It's on the front page of the Earth Science reference table!!

[fozsey]

Were any of you guys around for the "water freezing on the windshield" thread a couple of years back......Shark....you out there?

RG

How about the debate over the effects of wind chill and its ability (or inability) to lower temperature and freeze ice faster or slower.....? That one got pretty intense.