Maybe it's just me....

[30-30]

Anyone else getting the feeling that ice-fisherman are now considered to be a bunch of drunken, barb-using,
dope-smoking, "guilty-of-something" hooligans?

Funny I guess some of it is perception, some of it, reality.  I guess nowadays, perception is reality. 

A few years ago, seemed to be it was just a bunch of hard working guys, getting together to catch a few fish and maybe have one or two. Chat wit the local CO, have lunch, clean up and go home.  Sober, nothing behind but our tracks.

Is it really as bad as we hear, or are the "bad ones" so bad that it causes the media and authorities to paint us all with the same brush and come down with a big hammer?  Fines, bans, constant spot-checks etc.

I think most of us simply want to fish and be left alone.  Hardly seems worth it to be branded this way. Maybe we "not so bad ones" will go away and leave just the "bad ones".  Then what?  Will that therefore prove that only bad people ice fish?  I guess, technically it will.

Please don't beat me up for this post, I was just wondering.

Please share your respectful opinions.  Maybe we can protect our sport, and put it back under the radar.

[Double-L]

   It's not just you; Those are very good observations!    I'm thinking that these forums are doing WAAAY more harm, than good.       (IMHO) Tight lines,      Lou

[fishncamp]

Is it really as bad as we hear, or are the "bad ones" so bad that it causes the media and authorities to paint us all with the same brush and come down with a big hammer?  Fines, bans, constant spot-checks etc.

The short answer is yes....the litterbugs on the ice, the drunks getting hammered, guys mouthing off the the NRO, and poachers are drawing attention from media which does not distinguish the good with the bad. The bad ones are the story right?
I see it similar with guys who cruise down Portage Avenue on sunday nights. I used to go cruising and had pride showing off my car but the actions of a few got the attention of the media and it resulted in spot checks and heavy handed enforcement. 
It appears that these actions were coming from what I have seen particularly on the Red and south LW. Is this what is required to clean up the area? What do you think?
I believe the bad ones will always be there, just with lighter wallets.

[firefighter]

Nope, just the few that make the lot look bad...as with anything in life...

FF

[30-30]

Fishcamp, that Portage Avenue analogy is perfect.  Problem is, I may have chirped the tires now and again, and maybe had a nip when ice fishing, but now I can't do either.  I would wonder if it is the "not so bad" who are getting frustrated with the authorities and mouthing off? Maybe the authority person was having a rough day and approached the "not-so-bad" guys with some aggression.   
Thus perpetuating the cycle.The "bad ones" probably have too much to hide, so act a lot more congenial in the presence of the CO.

Again, I think the "chirpers" or "can-or-twos" just want to be left alone.  I can understand the frustration.

[fishncamp]

The "tire chirpers" are not making the media drool....its the "fast and furious" wannabees on the road or just as the guys pounding back "24's" on the ice and pissing in the local residents back yard, leaving all their crap (literally in some cases) on the ice, jumping in their vehicle while juiced and then telling the NRO checking limits and licences at the ramp to "f-off and leave me alone", and then abandoning the shack at the end of the season, who are drawing the media into this. I personally think it is embarrassing that that this is going on in my community, especially by people who are (or pretending to) taking something that my family and I enjoy doing and making all of us look like a bunch of drunk idiots. Maybe the more ethical anglers who profess to be stewards of our resource should be doing more to change the seemingly prevaling culture of stupidity that is becoming more and more evident on the Red.   

[30-30]

The "tire chirpers" are not making the media drool....its the "fast and furious" wannabees on the road or just as the guys pounding back "24's" on the ice and **censored**ing in the local residents back yard, leaving all their crap (literally in some cases) on the ice, jumping in their vehicle while juiced and then telling the NRO checking limits and licences at the ramp to "f-off and leave me alone", and then abandoning the shack at the end of the season, who are drawing the media into this. I personally think it is embarrassing that that this is going on in my community, especially by people who are (or pretending to) taking something that my family and I enjoy doing and making all of us look like a bunch of drunk idiots. Maybe the more ethical anglers who profess to be stewards of our resource should be doing more to change the seemingly prevaling culture of stupidity that is becoming more and more evident on the Red.   

Well said, Fishcamp.  Hard to be a steward, that is why I don't claim to be one.  I try to educate the new and the young, but that is about all I will claim.  I am far from perfect.  I do clean up behind myself, and often behind others.  I grew up sitting on the shore of the Redand have seen the result of litter.  Never figured out why you can't take back empty, what you could bring full.

Situation seems to be sad, and not sure why it started or how it will end.

Appreciate the educated/experienced opinions.

[Jimmeny]

It is a small minority that attracts the negative media. I agree with continuing to educate & mentor but in the end - you just can't fix stupid!!!!!!

[gatorhunter]

If only it was the minority!  I keep saying it over and over again!  On the Red River it is a MAJORITY of winter users that create the mess and violate the laws! MAJORITY!  These people are not there to fish and appreciate what that resource offers!  They are there to escape whatever they are escaping from by boozing, smoking dope, taking liberties with fishing and littering laws.  When they leave, another element comes around to steal or trash the shelters that are left behind.

Again we're not talking about anglers even though way too many "anglers" commit violations of various laws.  The carnage that occurs on the Red is caused by unscrupulous, disrespectful people who don't care about the resource.  I'm angler when I'm not working and I refuse to be included in the group that does that to any water or land.

Individually none of these 350 - 500 shack owners ever complains about their "neighbors" and that's because they are either scared that someone will wreck their shack or they are doing the same things as the bad guys.  If I had to live my life in fear of what someone might do to my property, I wouldn't leave my property behind unattended!

[Wendigo]

Technology ,progression and the fact fishing locally is better than ever has has more to do with it than anything else. Electronics, Quads, Sleds and portable shacks have made it more interesting, accessible and more comfortable. Also if the fishery ever died on the Red or Lake Winnipeg South basin and people would have to travel farther, you would have about half the people fishing. I don't ever remember as many people fishing hard water as in the last two years. I am sure it was a much easier job for the NRO's years ago. Maybe there should be TIL program. LOL!

[GREEN-BACK-HUNTER]

The "tire chirpers" are not making the media drool....its the "fast and furious" wannabees on the road or just as the guys pounding back "24's" on the ice and **censored**ing in the local residents back yard, leaving all their crap (literally in some cases) on the ice, jumping in their vehicle while juiced and then telling the NRO checking limits and licences at the ramp to "f-off and leave me alone", and then abandoning the shack at the end of the season, who are drawing the media into this. I personally think it is embarrassing that that this is going on in my community, especially by people who are (or pretending to) taking something that my family and I enjoy doing and making all of us look like a bunch of drunk idiots. Maybe the more ethical anglers who profess to be stewards of our resource should be doing more to change the seemingly prevaling culture of stupidity that is becoming more and more evident on the Red.   

VERY GOOD POST FOR A MALE AGE 4

[topcat3820]

VERY GOOD POST FOR A MALE AGE 4

So, we're talking about you now, right???

This HAD been the been the most intelligent conversation & thread on this subject since the whole issue reared it's ugly head and has drawn all the attention that it rightfully deserves... then you come along and mouth off  . Perhaps more importantly, the guy you just slammed does more for positive things for the angling community as a whole & contributes more time and effort to more charities than I can count, without making a penny, than any person around, bar none. You really haven't got a clue... do you  ?
 
Also, turn your friggin' caps lock off while you're at it... it makes you look (more?) simple .

[prchslyr]

So, we're talking about you now, right???

This HAD been the been the most intelligent conversation & thread on this subject since the whole issue reared it's ugly head and has drawn all the attention that it rightfully deserves... then you come along and mouth off  . Perhaps more importantly, the guy you just slammed does more for positive things for the angling community as a whole & contributes more time and effort to more charities than I can count, without making a penny, than any person around, bar none. You really haven't got a clue... do you  ?
 
Also, turn your friggin' caps lock off while you're at it... it makes you look (more?) simple .

If you check fishncamp's profile. It says his age is four
I don't believe GBH was bashing anyone.

[gatorhunter]

VERY GOOD POST FOR A MALE AGE 4

Then Glen is the most articulate, eloquent 4 year old to walk on this planet!  FYI, if 10% of the people on these fishing forums had his enthusiasm and dedication to charitable organizations, organized angling clubs and concern for our natural resources this whole Continent and society in general would be in much better shape!

[30-30]

Some very good points, and a good mature conversation.  It sounds like Gatorhunter is very frustrated.  Wendigo's point about the convenience of the Red is also very true.  Gatorhunter may also agree that this is an issue in the summer as well as the winter.

The other point is that the Red has become popular because of it's ease of access.  Not just because it is close, but easy to access the shoreline.  Twenty years ago I could be in the boondocks in an hour.  Now all those pristine lakes have been surrounded by cabins and private property with vocal owners causing harsher enforcement.  Think about places like Pine Falls, Wanipagow, Montago and such.  So my choice is ten minutes to the Red or 8 hours to the Pas.  That is an exaggeration, but you get my point.

I look forward to this getting out of the news, and letting cooler heads prevail.  This is no good for anybody.

Thanks again folks, great input.

[flat liner]

okay then people,back to the problem we were talking about nicely.I have been going out on the ice for around 10 years now and every year there has been more and more shacks out.I have stayed out many a night and met alot of good people that drink and have a good time on the ice.For that reason even though I don't drink I would love to see it legal with rules,such as the ones that make a house boat legal.Sell me a permit and next time you come out and check my barbs make sure i have the portable toilet and garbage can so i don't leave a mess.Take a picture of my shack the last week out and GPS it for evidence if I move and leave a mess.I had a neighbor this year that left a big mess when he moved maybe 100 yards looking for fish,I made sure the trash was returned to his shack and he must have felt bad because he did remove it this time.I didn't want to get blamed for his mess and I didn't want to see it either.

[fishncamp]

I am flattered that members are taking the time to check my profile . I never really noticed my age on my profile but I am reminded of my true vintage by my receeding and greying hair Thank you for the flattering compliments too. 
 

[HighlandGlen Guide]

HEY TOPCAT THIS MSG IS FOR YOU.....does the caps bug you?  mayb my pour spelin does.....it seems to me your the bully of this site....ive NEVER read a post of yours that was either informative or of how you were doing FISHING, which is what this site is supposed to be RIGHT?  I'd bet  money on it that GREENBACK HUNTER  meant nothing by his comment of age 4, pretty sure he meant that it was a good post, which it was.  HOW WOULD YOU APPRECIATE IT IF SOMEONE CALLED YOUR KIDS SLOW, if you have.....BET YOU WOULDNT LIKE IT!!!  To me your the fit this definition of a fisherman perfectly..... A JIRK ON ONE END WAITING FOR A JIRK ON THE OTHER!!!  hope you like my caps and my poor spelling....next time keep it to yourself girlythingcat

[firemb]

If only it was the minority!  I keep saying it over and over again!  On the Red River it is a MAJORITY of winter users that create the mess and violate the laws! MAJORITY!  These people are not there to fish and appreciate what that resource offers!  They are there to escape whatever they are escaping from by boozing, smoking dope, taking liberties with fishing and littering laws.  When they leave, another element comes around to steal or trash the shelters that are left behind.

Again we're not talking about anglers even though way too many "anglers" commit violations of various laws.  The carnage that occurs on the Red is caused by unscrupulous, disrespectful people who don't care about the resource.  I'm angler when I'm not working and I refuse to be included in the group that does that to any water or land.

Individually none of these 350 - 500 shack owners ever complains about their "neighbors" and that's because they are either scared that someone will wreck their shack or they are doing the same things as the bad guys.  If I had to live my life in fear of what someone might do to my property, I wouldn't leave my property behind unattended!

A majority of the Red River is not a majority of Manitoba. I'm not saying that this does not happen anywhere else but where I fish it is far from a problem.