Bio-filter and the Cold?

[PikeKing23]

I am picking up a 275 gal tote for a bait tank.  I plan on keeping it outside.  I have been reading that below a certain temp, the bacteria go dormant.  My question is why would I try to set up a bio-filter and cycle the tank if the bacteria will not form under a certain temp, anyways?  I know many on here have this set-up so please fill me in.  What am I missing?

[Ravo Himself]

As long as the water isn't frozen they still break down the ammonia but like you said with the cold weather things really slow down. Luckily, bait fish don't really eat when it's cold so their waste is also at a minimum. I haven't run mine in a year or two but I used a separate water thermometer to control my heaters so I could make the tank hover around 38° or so. I figured it was warm enough to help keep the bacteria growing and it helped on those really cold nights give it a head start to prevent icing over. I usually only had 1 or 2 die a week and I usef to keep like 12 dozen in a 100 gal tank

[Dieseldog]

I have a 100 gallon Rubbermaid stock tank setup but need to keep it heated. Any suggestions from you Enfield guys or others?  My tank is in my shed not in the cellar.

[lowaccord66]

As long as the water isn't frozen they still break down the ammonia but like you said with the cold weather things really slow down. Luckily, bait fish don't really eat when it's cold so their waste is also at a minimum. I haven't run mine in a year or two but I used a separate water thermometer to control my heaters so I could make the tank hover around 38° or so. I figured it was warm enough to help keep the bacteria growing and it helped on those really cold nights give it a head start to prevent icing over. I usually only had 1 or 2 die a week and I usef to keep like 12 dozen in a 100 gal tank

If you do not remove ammonia you will have sad goldens...you have to filter their waste or they will go belly up fast.  You could do water changes but a filter is less work.

[Dieseldog]

I built a 5 gallon bio filter and have a hose rigged from the bottom for water changes. Just need to keep the water temp up so everything does not freeze up.

[ESOX FIX]

u dont need a bio filter. 1800 gph pump to a waterfall filter with 5# bone charcoal filter floss. start tank in September with 10# canning salt (salt is a must) lots of water changes more salt. cut back on water changes and salt about now. (when its cold) i feed em heavy till they slow. i can keep around 250 7"-12" goldens for months.

[PikeKing23]

u dont need a bio filter. 1800 gph pump to a waterfall filter with 5# bone charcoal filter floss. start tank in September with 10# canning salt (salt is a must) lots of water changes more salt. cut back on water changes and salt about now. (when its cold) i feed em heavy till they slow. i can keep around 250 7"-12" goldens for months.

Thanks for the replies. This is what I was thinking. Just mechanical and chemical filtration in the winter.

[Global Warming in CT]

I set up a regular old Petco 50 gallon tank in my garage (when we have local ice that is--no need to bother yet this year). I use a cheap little heater and an electric filter to avoid freezing, and change half the water and the filter once a week. Tap water is fine as long as you put "water softener" in it (neutralizes ammonia and other chemicals, costs a few bucks at any pet store). Never used salt or anything in the water. I've overcrowded the (bleep) out of the tank with minimal loss. Last year i went to TAGs early in the season and had shiners and suckers for the whole season. Definitely worth the minimal investment to avoid relying on bait shops.
I hope I have to set it up soon!

[SHaRPS]

I set up a regular old Petco 50 gallon tank in my garage (when we have local ice that is--no need to bother yet this year). I use a cheap little heater and an electric filter to avoid freezing, and change half the water and the filter once a week. Tap water is fine as long as you put "water softener" in it (neutralizes ammonia and other chemicals, costs a few bucks at any pet store). Never used salt or anything in the water. I've overcrowded the (bleep) out of the tank with minimal loss. Last year i went to TAGs early in the season and had shiners and suckers for the whole season. Definitely worth the minimal investment to avoid relying on bait shops.
I hope I have to set it up soon!

This is exactly what I do except my tank is in the basement and the water temp is about 45 degrees. I have no issues at all and can run this from December - April with no kill. The only thing I added was that PVS pipe drilled with a ton of holes to prevent the shiners from sticking and dying on the water pump. I do not even want to tell you how many actual shiners are in this tank because you would probably not believe me.

[PikeKing23]

I should have probably stated that I have been keeping bait fish in an aquarium for years.  I have a 40 gal setup in my basement like you guys are saying.  The problem is overcrowding with 3" minnows is a lot different that overcrowding with 10"-12" fallfish, lol.  I catch my own bait and I can get about 15 in there before I have to change the filters and do water changes, constantly.  I really need a MUCH larger tank and system that I don't have to babysit every week.  I am fine with the tank, pump, water treatment, etc.  I am really just curious about biological filtration in the colder temps.  I am starting to think it would be a waste of time to try and establish a colony of beneficial bacteria based on the research I have done.  That's why I am asking on this forum.  I know some have this setup, and I am hoping somebody will chime in.  Thanks for all of the responses.

[Ravo Himself]

It's really not a waste of time. Like I said, I ran mine for a couple years in a row and made some tweaks here and there. There's a whole section in this site dedicated to bait tank set ups. I'd go take a look in there and see what other people are doing. There's still water changes required and other simple things but once it's set up it takes care of itself for the most part

[x182dan]

I should have probably stated that I have been keeping bait fish in an aquarium for years.  I have a 40 gal setup in my basement like you guys are saying.  The problem is overcrowding with 3" minnows is a lot different that overcrowding with 10"-12" fallfish, lol.  I catch my own bait and I can get about 15 in there before I have to change the filters and do water changes, constantly.  I really need a MUCH larger tank and system that I don't have to babysit every week.  I am fine with the tank, pump, water treatment, etc.  I am really just curious about biological filtration in the colder temps.  I am starting to think it would be a waste of time to try and establish a colony of beneficial bacteria based on the research I have done.  That's why I am asking on this forum.  I know some have this setup, and I am hoping somebody will chime in.  Thanks for all of the responses.

Ever check the temp in the tank?  I have a 50gal setup and can usually keep 12-18 fallfish with goldens and others mixed in.  I do have some bait loss but only a couple of the smaller ones.  For me keeping the temp cold was the key.  I keep it outside in a sun room which seems to keep it cold enough but it doesnt freeze much.

[hardfloor]

  I use a 110 gallon Tuff tank that I bought from tractor supply for about $60 and the 190 pond filter from pet mountain for about $60 and it is cheap and works awesome. The pond filter comes with the charcoal filters that keep things safe and pushes plenty of water. I have had this set up for 10 years now with out any issues. I think the $60 spent on the pond filter is the ticket.

[PikeKing23]

Here is what I'm talking about.  This is a typical table for the relationship between beneficial bacteria and temperature:



Temperature

The temperature for optimum growth of nitrifying bacteria is between 77-86° F (25-30° C).

Growth rate is decreased by 50% at 64° F (18° C).

Growth rate is decreased by 75% at 46-50° F.

No activity will occur at 39° F (4° C)

Nitrifying bacteria will die at 32° F (0° C).

Nitrifying bacteria will die at 120° F (49° C)

Nitrobacter is less tolerant of low temperatures than Nitrosomonas. In cold water systems, care must be taken to monitor the accumulation of nitrites.

[Global Warming in CT]

Interesting stuff. Makes me want to ditch the heater if I set up my tank this year (with the forecast it's looking like I will). A bucket of water doesn't freeze in my garage, and the filter keeps the water moving anyway, so my water would probably stay around that 39 degree area. I wonder if the heater is hurting more than helping.

[PikeKing23]

I would think it is helping IF you have a biological filter.  The bacteria apparently stop working at that 39 deg temp, but I have also read that the ammonia is less harmful to the fish at those temps.  It seems like a balance.  If you keep the water warmer, the bacteria will grow and process the ammonia.  If you keep it colder, the bacteria start to die, but the ammonia shouldn't affect the fish as much.  The tie breaker in my mind is that the bait needs to be acclimated to the cold water if you are dropping it down a hole.  Right now (with my tank in the basement), I have to deal with introducing the bait to the colder water in steps.  It's a PITA!  I have to leave a bucket of water in the breezeway overnight before a trip then put slush in the bucket as soon as I get to the ice.  Even then, the fish are sluggish for a while.

I think I am going to go with cold water and no bio-filter for the winter.  I can use a smaller container for the filter with just mechanical and chemical filtration.  Once spring rolls around, I will make another filter and include the biological media.  Thanks for the tips and please chime in if you have other ideas!

[walkinonwater27]

I leave my bait in my bait bucket with the battery powered bubbler. Turn it on two to three times a day for a couple minutes and the fish last for weeks with no food. I change the water every few days and leave the bucket in the garage, seems to work just fine. I’ve kept a dozen or two for weeks that way. With a tank, filter and feeding they last forever.