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IceShanty Main => General Ice Fishing Chit Chat => Topic started by: Goose97 on Feb 04, 2018, 11:11 AM
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I have been using braid as my leader on tip ups for years,and I’ve tried different sizes.this year I have snapped off 3 different large pike,using 20 and 30 lb spider wire. What would you guys suggest for a better braid or should I just go to 50 or 65 like I used to?
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Braid is no good for pike. Titanium or steel leaders are good. Heavy fluoro is good with circle hooks.
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Braid is no good for pike. Titanium or steel leaders are good. Heavy fluoro is good with circle hooks.
Agreed
X2
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Exactly...I personally prefer braid because its easier to work with but I always have a steel leader tied on for pike. Pulled in a 23 pounder two weeks ago using that setup and I also have 40lb braid
Braid is no good for pike. Titanium or steel leaders are good. Heavy fluoro is good with circle hooks.
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On fly in trips to Canada, we looked for something better than wire which always seemed to coil and kink.
Tried 65-70 lb braid, did not have a break off in 10 days. Easy to tie leaders, more flexible. All good.
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Flouro or mono, all in what you like. I prefer mono there's a little stretch in it.
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50 lb fluro leader...I've watched videos and read articles which have made me a believer. Like others - braid no good for pike...go with mono or fluro
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I have'nt intentionally fished northern for years, but switched to braid because of them. Useing lite jig setup with jigging raps for walleye I was getting raped a 6 bucks a pop by pike teeth. Switched to 10# braid and cut my losses by at least half. A couple of those misserable sob's were 7 to 9 lbs. Granted not the size or application you're talking but seems to work with lite tackle.
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I’ve never had a pike break off a steel leader. Tie that to 20# or 30# mason and I’m good to go.
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Thank you guys for all your input.the other thing I forgot to mention is that we usually fish walleye.im sure in most people’s eyes braid isn’t ideal for them but for me it works,my only issue with steel leaders is the fact that it seems like the eyes steer clear of them. I usually don’t specifically target pike,so I’d like to find something in between that will work. We pretty much hook them by chance,but it is awfully irritating when you see a 40+ incher under the hole and then it’s gone.
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During the summer, i fish with 65lb powerpro on my frog rod. Quite often I catch a large pike in the pads without a leader and never had an issue. If i notice my line is frayed, i retie
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Profisher, I wish I had your luck with bite offs. I use 50lb power pro for frogs and pike bite um off almost every time they eat one. Same thing with a jig in pads or slop.
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It blows me away how many people use braided line for leader.. it has strong knot strength and great breaking strength but it is NOT resistant to abrassion! Two different things.
Braid is designed for main line. Not leader use. Doesnt everyone know this? Lol...
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Always use 40# Segaur flouro leader material, crimped, blade and a couple beads, and a octopus hook, not circle. Never been broken off. Tried Knot 2 kinky steel last two years on a couple set ups but never a hit. I sit next to friends with steel and I get 4 to 5 times more hits. Pike are very line shy in the winter because metabolism is slowed way down so they aren't as aggressive and view bait better. I have watched on the camera where the pike will look at dead bait, nudge it with their nose, and go away several times before hitting it. With steel they look quickly, see the steel and just leave., Just mho
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It blows me away how many people use braided line for leader.. it has strong knot strength and great breaking strength but it is NOT resistant to abrassion! Two different things.
Braid is designed for main line. Not leader use. Doesnt everyone know this? Lol...
100% agree. Braid is junk for pike teeth, the easiest of all line material to cut for a given break strength. There's a reason muskie fisherman use 80 lb braid mainline and an 80 lb fluorocarbon leader.
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Use braid for your main line. 30 to 50 flouro or mono for your leader.
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Braid absolutely sucks for leaders. Heavy mono/fluoro or wire for pike. I've had pike bite clean through 65lb braid while bass fishing with frogs.
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Thank you guys for all your input.the other thing I forgot to mention is that we usually fish walleye.im sure in most people’s eyes braid isn’t ideal for them but for me it works,my only issue with steel leaders is the fact that it seems like the eyes steer clear of them. I usually don’t specifically target pike,so I’d like to find something in between that will work. We pretty much hook them by chance,but it is awfully irritating when you see a 40+ incher under the hole and then it’s gone.
You might try the ultra-light steel leaders. I have used some in 15 and 20lb, they are more resistant to pike teeth and other fish aren't as scared. I bought them for running tipups for perch in pike areas, and it worked.. perch and crappie still hit them and the pike that tried it also got iced. Biggest was a 34" 12.9lb on the 15lb wire leader and a #8 treble hook.
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Always used braided for leader 30-60 lb.suffix 832.Never had break offs.Floro is ok but frays easily and you have to constantly retie.Wire too hard to work with.
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30# P-Line copolymer.. Never have had any break offs and I dont catch small pike either.. Your asking for break off with braid..
With that said if you really want to get rid off break offs all together start hooking you bait in the tail, i have a bunch of video on my channel with pike all hooked in the corner of the jaw using this method.. Pike eat bait head first, so if you tail hook your bait,the vast majority of the time you are going to get that corner of the jaw hookset, because the tail of the bait is most times right there..
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From my understanding pline is braid covered in floro so not sure why that makes it that much better.More expensive but sufix 832 baid has worked well for me with no breakoffs.Totally agree with tail hooks though.
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From my understanding pline is braid covered in floro so not sure why that makes it that much better.More expensive but sufix 832 baid has worked well for me with no breakoffs.Totally agree with tail hooks though.
There's a Pline braid with teflon coated treatment. I am not aware of a braid with flourocarbon coating.
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From my understanding pline is braid covered in floro so not sure why that makes it that much better.More expensive but sufix 832 baid has worked well for me with no breakoffs.Totally agree with tail hooks though.
It cost 12$ for a 260 yrd spool at bass pro, and it is superior to any braid you would use for a pike leader. End of coversation.. :)
There's a Pline braid with teflon coated treatment. I am not aware of a braid with flourocarbon coating.
Been using it for awhile now.. Like at least 6 seasons maybe longer . Its a co-polymer just google it..Here is a pic
(https://s10.postimg.cc/ggauy72dx/2_B0001_EF-6_DA6-4607-90_BF-91_A5_EC9_BA33_C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ggauy72dx/)
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Profisher, I wish I had your luck with bite offs. I use 50lb power pro for frogs and pike bite um off almost every time they eat one. Same thing with a jig in pads or slop.
I know it sounds strange, but that extra 15lbs helps. I used 50 myself and I had the same issue. Switched back to the 65 and hardly have any issues.
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I understand that braid isn’t generally used for leader material,I like it for certain reasons, I like having zero stretch and small diameter.I’ve tried just about everything for leader,i catch a lot of walleye on braid even though most guys say I won’t. I’m really looking for suggestions on what is an all purpose leader for walleye and pike.without getting so heavy that a walleye won’t touch it.
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Try 15lb Tyger wire. Pike can and will snap it, but it is very thin that walleye will eat also. Google is your friend.
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Here's the problem I see. Pike and walleyes both have teeth but those teeth are very different. Walleyes have sharp teeth but sharp like an ice pick, only on the points not on the sides. Pike teeth different story, think razor blades all up and down the sides plus pointy to boot.
Walleye teeth won't/cant cut any line, fish whatever you want. Pike teeth cut (notice I said cut, not "break off) everything but steel or titanium.
I know this won't change anything for many of you but it is real. Plastic cuts, steel don't. Period.
Crossover rigs? Difficult. Perception is pike rigs are too heavy/clunky for walleyes (correct in many cases) yet those geared more toward walleye put you "at risk" for cut offs (notice again I didn't say "break off). I can land fish that weigh 3x the pound test of the leader or line providing I don't get slashed. That changes everything.
On a "cut-ability scale" here's how it goes:
Best: Steel or Titanium
2nd: Heavy fluorocarbon
3rd: hard Mono
Dead flippin' last: any kind of (I'll say) superline. Braid, fused, heavy, heavier, any manufacturer. Cuts like soft butter. Use this and you hopes of landing any pike (or relative thereof) should be about zero. Sure, some folks get lucky a number of times but the odds say disappointment will ensue at some point.
So y'alls do as you wish. I can't change that. Just let it sit in the back of your mind when the pike you really want gets cut off at some point... If I lose one I only have my lack of skill to blame not my poor choice in tools. Maybe some of you feel better blaming it on the tool but don't forget, that was your choice.
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You can use very light wire if you're patient and fight the fish. 20 pound wire is plenty and i fairly easy to work with. I think I've used down to 10
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Here's the problem I see. Pike and walleyes both have teeth but those teeth are very different. Walleyes have sharp teeth but sharp like an ice pick, only on the points not on the sides. Pike teeth different story, think razor blades all up an down the sides plus pointy to boot.
Walleye teeth won't/cant cut any line, fish whatever you want. Pike teeth cut (notice I said cut, not "break off) everything but steel or titanium.
I know this won't change anything for many of you but it is real. Plastic cuts, steel don't. Period.
Crossover rigs? Difficult. Perception is pike rigs are too heavy/clunky for walleyes (correct in many cases) yet those geared more toward walleye put you "at risk" for cut offs (notice I didn't say "break off). I can land fish that weigh 3x the pound test of the leader or line providing I don't get slashed. that changes everything.
On a "cut-ability scale" here's how it goes:
Best: Steel or Titanium
2nd: Heavy fluorocarbon
3rd: hard Mono
Dead flippin' last: any kind of (I'll say) superline. Braid, fused, heavy, heavier, any manufacturer. Cuts like soft butter. Use this and you hopes of landing any pike (or relative thereof) should be about zero. Sure, some folks get lucky a number of time but the odds say disappoint will ensue at some point.
So y'alls do as you wish. I can't change that. Just let it sit in the back of your mind when the pike you really want gets cut off at some point... If I lose one I only have my lack of skill to blame not my poor choice in tools. Maybe some of you feel better blaming it on the tool but don't forget, that was also your choice.
Agree with this. I used to use 100# fluorocarbon for pike rigs in the Great Lakes and it worked great for a long time - until it didn't. Big heavy fish, one shake of the head, and I came up with half a leader. Thin wire for me - I like Knot 2 Kinky.
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What r u using for hooks? I fish with 15lbs mono with octopus hooks. When I get a fish I don't set the hook just pick up the line and start pulling. Get them in the corner if there mouth every time. No need to worry about sharp teeth cutting line. We fish tiger musky and pike this way.rarely do we miss or loose a fish. Use whatever line u want just change your hooks
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Exactly circle hook wait till they stop just pull hooked in corner everytime..Everyone that thinks they know everything should try suffix 832.You might be surprised.Everyone use to think the world was flat.Some still do lol.End of conversation.
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Circle hooks are fine for hammer handles lol.. Ran that experiment many years back they are worth a crap when targeting bigger fish, like i said before tail hook your bait its pretty much a guaranteed corner of the jaw hook set..
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Circle hooks are fine for hammer handles lol.. Ran that experiment many years back they are worth a crap when targeting bigger fish, like i said before tail hook your bait its pretty much a guaranteed corner of the jaw hook set..
I completely disagree we have landed several fish tigers and pike over 40" on octopus hooks with fire line and mono leaders. A lot of fishermen swear by using mono and a single hook for big toothy critters that are indeed line shy. Not saying u won't hook up with steel and treble hooks but proof is in the puddin. My hook up.and catch rate has at least doubled so c.f. switching to mono with octopus hooks. And I can use same leaders for walleye. I'm not saying what ur doing is wrong and not saying what I'm doing is right. Just another option that will work for pike and walleye with out making any gear changes
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Exactly circle hook wait till they stop just pull hooked in corner everytime..Everyone that thinks they know everything should try suffix 832.You might be surprised.Everyone use to think the world was flat.Some still do lol.End of conversation.
Why would I be surprised? I have pike bite off 65lb sufix 832 every year. Braid is the worst type of leader material out there, end of conversation. When is the last time you saw a professional fisherman (someone who fishes to feed their family) use braid for pike, bass, catfish, saltwater, or anything else? You won't, because its a terrible choice.
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I completely disagree we have landed several fish tigers and pike over 40" on octopus hooks with fire line and mono leaders. A lot of fishermen swear by using mono and a single hook for big toothy critters that are indeed line shy. Not saying u won't hook up with steel and treble hooks but proof is in the puddin. My hook up.and catch rate has at least doubled so c.f. switching to mono with octopus hooks. And I can use same leaders for walleye. I'm not saying what ur doing is wrong and not saying what I'm doing is right. Just another option that will work for pike and walleye with out making any gear changes
Yah i dont use steel, just a single #4 treb, 30lb copolymer, you moght want to look into it if you like mono its kinda a hybrid line mono core fluoro coating, it offers the best of both worlds. As far as gear changes , just find it easier to have a set of traps strictly for pike and a set strictly for other fish..As far as circle hooks we will have to agree to disagree 😎 In the end what you have faith in is ussually what works i guess.
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Yah i dont use steel, just a single #4 treb, 30lb copolymer, you moght want to look into it if you like mono its kinda a hybrid line mono core fluoro coating, it offers the best of both worlds. As far as gear changes , just find it easier to have a set of traps strictly for pike and a set strictly for other fish..As far as circle hooks we will have to agree to disagree 😎 In the end what you have faith in is ussually what works i guess.
what brand copolymer do u like. It be interested in trying it out. I'm Always up for trying new things. Like when I tried octopus hooks.i do agree that having a set of tip ups for different fish species is the way to go if u can go that route.my self i have 3 sets of traps. Changing leaders or setting up to catch multiplespecies with 1 set up is the only option for some folks tho
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Be advised that octopus hooks are not circle hooks. You still set the hook with octopus hooks. You can get octopus circle hooks though. Just pulling on a regular octopus hook will hook the fish wherever the point lands, as long as the mouth is closed, which fortunately usually is the corner or roof of the mouth. A true circle hook will hook a fish in the corner of the mouth whether his mouth is clamped shut or partially open, just by pulling on the line. I would not suggest circle hooks as you need to let the fish get a longer distance away before "setting it" so the angle is flatter, a circle hook will not work well with a vertical angle. So if the fish grabs the bait and sits under the hole, you will likely miss it with a circle hook. I fish with circle hooks quite a bit, and they are a fantastic concept and work very well... but not for all scenarios.
#4 trebles for me, have never had one swallow it and I can stick him as soon as he stops his initial run. ;)
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Braid will break your heart. I used 50lb flouro for some time until I broke one off. I have since switched to AFW single strand 38lb tieable wire. It's very thin and will not break (or cut). Not my quote but I still use it.....STEEL IS REAL!
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More clarity on misinformation:
Most monofilaments (monos) ARE copolymers, very few monofilaments (very, very few) are NOT copolymers, "co-polymer" is not magic. MONOfilament means "single strand or "filament". COpolymer means multiple plastic polymers blended to achieve a specific result. Here's how it works:
Most, if not all plastic line is a blend of polymers. Think of polymers like this: one hard, tough, abrasion resistant yet brittle like spaghetti. Another soft, supple, stretchy, resistant to tensile breakage more like a rubber band. Say we put equal parts in a pot and melt 'em together to see what we get. That's a "co-polymer", two (or more) polymers are blended together to achieve a specific result. Monofilament means just a single thread/line/whatever rather than a multi-filament, spun or braided end product.
When speaking about "plastic" lines/leaders, monofilament and copolymer are most likely the same thing. Fluorocarbon is the same only different if that makes sense. Still a monofilament (single strand) plastic, but different formula and manufacturing procedure. Plastic nonetheless...
Braid/superline is still plastic. Most lines use a gel spun (think cotton candy machine) polyethylene (like milk jugs) and is drawn and woven (braid) or fused together to make line. Very thin for pound test, very "soft" and very tough (in certain ways) but can be cut more easily than even the cheapest mono line. Serious. Take a single edge razor blade (simulates pike/pickerel/musky teeth) and try it on different lines. Make sure you put the lines under pressure (like you have a fish on the other end) to test. See what you think...
IF I had to do plastic for toothies, I'd choose fluoro. The thicker the better but there's tradeoffs for the non-toothy species. Leader is too heavy, not flexible enough or if it is thin enough there's not enough protection against sharp teeth. That's why, in end, I choose very (very) thin wire. Cut (but not idiot) proof, low visibility, very flexible, cheap and easy to work with. Most folks' brains don't let 'em go there because they think they're smarter than that. Trouble is they out think themselves...
I know, I'm howlin' at the moon. No matter. I can't help myself. Even if only one person is enlightened...
This could be 4 cents worth if you get it. ;)2
I'll finish with a nod to PikeKing23:
Braid will break your heart. I used 50lb flouro for some time until I broke one off. I have since switched to AFW single strand 38lb tieable wire. It's very thin and will not break (or cut). Not my quote but I still use it.....STEEL IS REAL!
If your primary target is pike or other toothies: read and heed. If your peripheral target is pike, tackle accordingly and be OK when you get nicked off.
My crossovers are even thinner: 18# multistrand uncoated steel.
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I dont think people realize how thin uncoated steel is and that it actually isn't that bad to work with
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Everyone uses what's works for them.The question posted was Braid advice for pike.I gave my opinion based on my experience.Dave Genz is a professional fisherman and he does use braid.Not looking to argue I know lots of people that use floro and blah blah but for me braid works.No special tools needed like wire no line stretch when fishing in 40 ft of water like mono floro. I'm not saying everything else is wrong to use I just answered question posted which was advice on braid for pike.
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Well I seem to have started an argument.i now have very light wire leaders,and I’ll keep using my usual setup for walleye and see how the new leaders work.
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Well I seem to have started an argument.i now have very light wire leaders,and I’ll keep using my usual setup for walleye and see how the new leaders work.
Oh you didn't start this Goose. You only (re)opened the door to a debate that has raged for decades. There are nearly as many different views as there are people. In the end, if it works for you terrific! If you're looking to experiment there's lots of ideas here. Good luck to you!
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Everyone uses what's works for them.The question posted was Braid advice for pike.I gave my opinion based on my experience.Dave Genz is a professional fisherman and he does use braid.Not looking to argue I know lots of people that use floro and blah blah but for me braid works.No special tools needed like wire no line stretch when fishing in 40 ft of water like mono floro. I'm not saying everything else is wrong to use I just answered question posted which was advice on braid for pike.
Half of what you said is crap or mainly applies to using them as your main line. Anyways where is dave genz claiming to use braid as a leader for pike?
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Oh you didn't start this Goose. You only (re)opened the door to a debate that has raged for decades. There are nearly as many different views as there are people. In the end, if it works for you terrific! If you're looking to experiment there's lots of ideas here. Good luck to you! Thank you sir. I have had very good success up until this year with my current setups,and I have also landed quite a number of pike in the 30-40 inch range without any problem. This year however it has failed 3 times already haha
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Fortunately for me I don't give a crap what people say.Some people need to prove they're right even to themselves and try to make what works for other people at least in their eyes wrong in what they do.Im an adult I can take it some people can't.
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Just trying to stop mis-information. Pretty obvious genz doesnt recommend braid as a pike leader. If something works for you good for you but lieing about it is just stupid
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Never said he uses for pike leader.I do as well as many of my friends.You should read post totally.Someone said pro fisherman don't use braid he does for walleye might even be one of his sponsers.As a rule I believe 50% of what I see nothing of what I hear and 100% of what I've experienced.
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Why would I be surprised? I have pike bite off 65lb sufix 832 every year. Braid is the worst type of leader material out there, end of conversation. When is the last time you saw a professional fisherman (someone who fishes to feed their family) use braid for pike, bass, catfish, saltwater, or anything else? You won't, because its a terrible choice.
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Context is key. Also the original post being about leaders for pike on tipups :tipup:
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You know I guess your right I'm the only "pro" in world that uses it.Lots of pros use braid lots of info out there Genz has articles ,reviews of panfishing and walleye fishing using braid.Never said anyone had to agree with me just my experience.Sorry hweber you got so offended that we have a different opinions.I,ve never been a follower.Context is the key.I happen to use braid for leaders you don't.
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Because you continue to not get it. No one is saying pros don't use braid they're saying pros don't use braid as a leader
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Because you continue to not get it. No one is saying pros don't use braid they're saying pros don't use braid as a leader
To add to this, I've seen genz use braid panfishing and tie directly to the lure. But he is using 1-3lb braid and is not targeting pike. Everyone (including genz) that have seen fish with braid for pike tie or walleye ties on a fluorocarbon leader. ;)
The only time I have ever seen anyone use a braid leader is saltwater guys using a braid topshot, but that is a totally different situation.
My final remarks. Pike teeth nick braid and break it easier than any other type of line on the market. You would be better off using your tipup line than braided fishing line.
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This stuff never disappoints...
(https://s19.postimg.cc/i1nm7ir4z/1x5mhe_H.jpg.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
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Yup wind'em up and watch'em go
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How about braid as a leader on a jawjacker?
>:D
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That's what mine has on it although its set up for perch.
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Braid is main line material, I would never use it for leader. With tipup fishing, you won’t want to hand line in the super line braids as it will be so thin it would be a mess to deal with and cut you when the fish pulls. Some times it’s fine to tie direct to braid if the fish aren’t line shy, but ask how many lures bass fishermen have lost to pike or pickerel.
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Sometimes braid cuts right thru floro and mono at the knot.In fisherman mag has an interesting article about Pro Bass finesse fisherman using just braid tied right to plastics and their jigs.
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The real question isn't about braid and when and where it should be used it's about circle hooks or treble hooks.
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I experimented with braid for the first time this season. I caught a few toothy fish on those rigs too. One of them cut the leader coming out of the hole another while being handled to remove the hook. The third one, I was just lucky. Braid does not decrease the chance of a toothy fish cutting your leader vs mono. It's just a crap shoot if it's cut or not. Wire works fine, it's hard to cut, it doesn't swim a shiner that well either. That's why we experimented with braid leaders. It's about trying to swim that bait more naturally. Believe it or not there is a product out there that solves these two problems, only it's not for sale in the US. Google Spinwal fishing tackle or goto spinwal.pl . These leaders a few of which were given to me are made of a very fine hollow braided tungsten(wolfram) metal fiber. They will allow that bait fish to swim just like braid does but will not be cut by that toothy game fish. This stuff is amazing. If it gets kinked, heat with a lighter and the kink straightens out, unbelievable stuff. The tackle might me available out of England. There should be a British fishing tackle web page in the Google search results that people in the US can order from. :thumbsup: :tipup: :thumbsup:
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I experimented with braid for the first time this season. I caught a few toothy fish on those rigs too. One of them cut the leader coming out of the hole another while being handled to remove the hook. The third one, I was just lucky. Braid does not decrease the chance of a toothy fish cutting your leader vs mono. It's just a crap shoot if it's cut or not. Wire works fine, it's hard to cut, it doesn't swim a shiner that well either. That's why we experimented with braid leaders. It's about trying to swim that bait more naturally. Believe it or not there is a product out there that solves these two problems, only it's not for sale in the US. Google Spinwal fishing tackle or goto spinwal.pl . These leaders a few of which were given to me are made of a very fine hollow braided tungsten(wolfram) metal fiber. They will allow that bait fish to swim just like braid does but will not be cut by that toothy game fish. This stuff is amazing. If it gets kinked, heat with a lighter and the kink straightens out, unbelievable stuff. The tackle might me available out of England. There should be a British fishing tackle web page in the Google search results that people in the US can order from. :thumbsup: :tipup: :thum
Thanks for something constructive. I'll have to check it out
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I just checked it out. There are some compatible products available through the British Ebay site. They aren't Spinwal but they are designed for the same application and made of the same stuff. They should work just as well. ;) :tipup: ;)
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Sounds interesting.Ill have check out.
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More clarity on misinformation:
Most monofilaments (monos) ARE copolymers, very few monofilaments (very, very few) are NOT copolymers, "co-polymer" is not magic. MONOfilament means "single strand or "filament". COpolymer means multiple plastic polymers blended to achieve a specific result. Here's how it works:
Most, if not all plastic line is a blend of polymers. Think of polymers like this: one hard, tough, abrasion resistant yet brittle like spaghetti. Another soft, supple, stretchy, resistant to tensile breakage more like a rubber band. Say we put equal parts in a pot and melt 'em together to see what we get. That's a "co-polymer", two (or more) polymers are blended together to achieve a specific result. Monofilament means just a single thread/line/whatever rather than a multi-filament, spun or braided end product.
When speaking about "plastic" lines/leaders, monofilament and copolymer are most likely the same thing. Fluorocarbon is the same only different if that makes sense. Still a monofilament (single strand) plastic, but different formula and manufacturing procedure. Plastic nonetheless...
Braid/superline is still plastic. Most lines use a gel spun (think cotton candy machine) polyethylene (like milk jugs) and is drawn and woven (braid) or fused together to make line. Very thin for pound test, very "soft" and very tough (in certain ways) but can be cut more easily than even the cheapest mono line. Serious. Take a single edge razor blade (simulates pike/pickerel/musky teeth) and try it on different lines. Make sure you put the lines under pressure (like you have a fish on the other end) to test. See what you think...
IF I had to do plastic for toothies, I'd choose fluoro. The thicker the better but there's tradeoffs for the non-toothy species. Leader is too heavy, not flexible enough or if it is thin enough there's not enough protection against sharp teeth. That's why, in end, I choose very (very) thin wire. Cut (but not idiot) proof, low visibility, very flexible, cheap and easy to work with. Most folks' brains don't let 'em go there because they think they're smarter than that. Trouble is they out think themselves...
I know, I'm howlin' at the moon. No matter. I can't help myself. Even if only one person is enlightened...
This could be 4 cents worth if you get it. ;)2
I'll finish with a nod to PikeKing23:
If your primary target is pike or other toothies: read and heed. If your peripheral target is pike, tackle accordingly and be OK when you get nicked off.
My crossovers are even thinner: 18# multistrand uncoated steel.
Not sure what misinformation was in my post about P-Line copolymer never claimed it was “Magic” Just stated what i used and recommended it to someone that uses mono as a better alternative.. But hey thanks for the chemistry lesson , I think 🤓..
Ive seen this debate go down on this site for close to 20 years ! Circle hooks,trebs, steel leaders, mono, fluoro hell Im surprised no one has tried bailing twine or bailing hooks 😂
All i can say is in all the years ive been using “plastic” ive never been bit or broke off..
I know, I know, Im the luckiest SOB out there !
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Not necessarily directed at you dsh. Lots of folks confuse "co-polymer" with "monofilament" and it makes me smile because they use the terms without really understanding what they're saying. Seems like most of the time "co-polymer" enters a conversation the intimation is that it is somehow special or different from monofilament when it really is not (again, not you specifically).
My best fishing buddy and I still joust over plastic vs. steel. We've been at it for decades. I think it's half the fun. Even in very clear water I'm not convinced that leader awareness is a big factor for pike (specifically). I could expound on this for a while as the why I believe that but that's a whole 'nother deal.
I get to spend a few days up on Little Bay de Noc this coming weekend, primarily for walleye but there's pike to had as well. Fluoro is recommended for 'eyes but I'll be testing thin wire next to the rest of the guys just because I can. My buddy says when I catch fish like that they're all the stupid ones and it's good I remove them from the gene pool. ::)
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Not necessarily directed at you dsh. Lots of folks confuse "co-polymer" with "monofilament" and it makes me smile because they use the terms without really understanding what they're saying. Seems like most of the time "co-polymer" enters a conversation the intimation is that it is somehow special or different from monofilament when it really is not (again, not you specifically).
My best fishing buddy and I still joust over plastic vs. steel. We've been at it for decades. I think it's half the fun. Even in very clear water I'm not convinced that leader awareness is a big factor for pike (specifically). I could expound on this for a while as the why I believe that but that's a whole 'nother deal.
I get to spend a few days up on Little Bay de Noc this coming weekend, primarily for walleye but there's pike to had as well. Fluoro is recommended for 'eyes but I'll be testing thin wire next to the rest of the guys just because I can. My buddy says when I catch fish like that they're all the stupid ones and it's good I remove them from the gene pool. ::)
All good 🙂 let us know if you see a significant difference 🙂
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Not necessarily directed at you dsh. Lots of folks confuse "co-polymer" with "monofilament" and it makes me smile because they use the terms without really understanding what they're saying. Seems like most of the time "co-polymer" enters a conversation the intimation is that it is somehow special or different from monofilament when it really is not (again, not you specifically).
My best fishing buddy and I still joust over plastic vs. steel. We've been at it for decades. I think it's half the fun. Even in very clear water I'm not convinced that leader awareness is a big factor for pike (specifically). I could expound on this for a while as the why I believe that but that's a whole 'nother deal.
I get to spend a few days up on Little Bay de Noc this coming weekend, primarily for walleye but there's pike to had as well. Fluoro is recommended for 'eyes but I'll be testing thin wire next to the rest of the guys just because I can. My buddy says when I catch fish like that they're all the stupid ones and it's good I remove them from the gene pool. ::) hey esox, can i use that logic to keep some fish ,n, not catch he77 from the c,n, r guys ? lol wire
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Can if ya want wirenut. I won't berate anyone as long as they're within the letter of the law, that's their (your) right. Don't be violatin' though, I take a dim view of that. Drove off the ice a few years back because the rest of the group was keeping slot fish based on if they didn't keep 'em a "less deserving group" (in their opinion) would harvest them anyway. Can't buy the rationale, I love to fish (all year) and need my fishing privileges. They had a 5 mile walk back to the cabin. And no, I was not included in subsequent trips with that group. Fine by me.
Don't get me wrong. I do a lot of musky fishing where c&r is expected and I fulfill that. Ate a few way back in the day. Can't tell anyone they don't taste great 'cause they do! If I've got one that won't swim away I'll collect it and make a few meals without feeling bad. Several years ago I had one that wouldn't swim after 2 hours of coddling. I had to leave it belly up because the minimum size on that lake was 45". Next day I overheard a couple of guys talking about the know-nothing, inconsiderate, wasteful, that killed a musky and left it float. If they only knew. Only happened to me once (that I am aware of). I've seen some goofy things on the water where muskies are concerned and think "well, that one will never make it", but I'm sure there are plenty of other guys that have been careful, responsible and saddened when despite their best efforts a fish doesn't make it.
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As a rule I believe 50% of what I see nothing of what I hear and 100% of what I've experienced.
Words to live by in this field.... no substitute for experience wether people like it or not...
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This afternoons score: Wire =2 flags , one fish (22.5"), fluoro = 0 flags.
Interesting.
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I had to bring this thread back to life cause its really a great thread, and well i went out Pike fishing and was thinking about this thread, lol, and decided id devote this days outing to Polymer Leaders and tail hooking bait... Wasnt the best day of fishing, 3 fish smallest was 28" biggest was 34 " average day for me...
I dont get into to much detail but you will get the jist of it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyQGCZTz09I
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I had no breakoffs this season but then I didn't get any pike or musky lol.Lots of pickerel's pulled in.My buddy lost a nice pike at the hole during a tourney but he ties hook right to tip up dacron line.Whatever works.