VT Deer Hunting Survey

[Fish-On-VT]

Hello my fellow deer hunting & whitetail enthusiasts!
Please help me spread the word about a FaceBook deer hunting survey I have started. Share it with as many FaceBook hunting friends as possible. Be honest, polite and think of the impact this could have when presented to our F&W Dept. and the Board.
Your voice does count. Be sure to include your thoughts, etc... And keep it moving!!
http://apps.facebook.com/my-surveys/4ffo19v8
Thanks ~ Nick

[vthonkerhtr]

yikes you are brave to post this here.  and pro boards new england chat you may want to also check out and post this on.

[azzlevt]

I like this kinda talk.. the spike horn shmear need's to take a hike.  I was so pissed when all of thoes BOW HUNTERS showed up and the early muzzleloader season vanished...   I think snowmobilers and bow  hunters need to take a hike...   i'd like to see it be DEER HUNTING..  how ever many they say... no anther restrictions... buck or doe... rifle, or bow or pistol or muzzle...   when the hell will the rest of us get to use cross bow's?   hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello..... I wanna here more on this...   why can't we be like new  york? 6 or 9 weeks of rifle.... spike's are A.O.K. 

[scavanau]

Shooting the first thing to cross your path means soon nothing will cross your path.

For the record, I saw only 1 deer this rifle season. It was a spike that I called to within 15'. I look forward to meeting him next season. There were more ticks embedded in my neck than deer that I saw...

[northernfisher]

Wow azzlevt you  have some strong feelings huh?  I for one like the antler restrictions, think they are working great.  I wouldn't want to go back to the "old days".  But that's just my opinion.  I personally would rather bow hunt then rifle hunt myself.  Its more of a rush to have deer within 20 yards of you then it is riding around in a truck hoping to find a legal buck crossing in a corn field somewhere.  I am not saying that's how you hunt, but most of the people who cry about the antler restrictions are that type of hunter. I saw way fewer deer this year then a normal year, but like most people I blame it on the late snow last year not on the antler restrictions.

[walleyeicefisher]

Fish-On-VT
Great Survey. 
I for one am glad we have the antler restrictions in place i love being able to see a bit bigger deer in Vt.  As far as the deer herd i'm not really sure what has gone wrong.  To be honest i think there's alot of poaching & the dogs have gotten out of control.  I also think that our wintering deer yards are not in the best of conditions.   

I sure hope we as hunters and the state can get this one figured out.  If not i'll continue to travel to other states to hunt. 

[vthonkerhtr]

i would run bow season straight from oct 1st to dec 15th!  and bumb the ars up to 3 points on a side    this state has the genetics they just need to grow a little age.  i saw over 30 deer in rifle and muzzle and 4 bucks. and i passed a 4 point and a 3 point from the trail cam picts i have got in the past few years is amazing i am seeing 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 yr old deer on the cams and that makes me hunt harder and for the first time has me excited to hunt deer in vt

[1Badboy]

i would run bow season straight from oct 1st to dec 15th!  and bumb the ars up to 3 points on a side    this state has the genetics they just need to grow a little age.  i saw over 30 deer in rifle and muzzle and 4 bucks. and i passed a 4 point and a 3 point from the trail cam picts i have got in the past few years is amazing i am seeing 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 yr old deer on the cams and that makes me hunt harder and for the first time has me excited to hunt deer in vt

^^THIS (minus seeing any big bucks on cams)

Great idea with the survey !
post it up on this forum and feel free to join !

www.http://newenglandhunting.proboards.com/

[whipplebuck]

I attended the F&W meeting at Kehoe conservation camp last year and we never more embarrassed to be associated with that group of so called hunters, the majority that were so clueless on deer management and habitat..    I hunt all the season.. (1)    I am for a early muzzle loader it makes perfect sense not to have breeding bucks waste their energy on deer that will be harvested in 2 weeks.. (2)  I am for having the bow season run from Oct. 1  to the end of Muzzle loader  NON STOP!  sucks that we have to get out of the stands when the rut starts to kick in..  (3) I am for the increase of antler restrictions to 3 pnts  on one side to bump up our mature bucks to mature doe ratio  to help ensure these doe get bread the first time around for early fawn drop along with increased rut activity   (4) I am for returning to a 1 Buck a year.. there is incredible hunting pressure on these buck    (5)  I am all for the Doe harvest as we are doing now and stop listening to the cry babies..  we have poor winter habitat in the state and we can't have the number of deer running around in the woods that most of these old Vermonter think we should..   (6)  and I am all for getting the GMNF off their A#$   and log our forests,  but their hands are tied because all the lazy whiners don't go out and support them i was at the rutland 10 year planning meetings 3 years ago and this meeting was full of tree huggers and there were only 4 of us hunters there, so unless that ever changes you will most likely never see another tree cut in our national forests...  (7) Be thankfull the F&W manages our WMA and actively logs  them  they are not tooting their own horns because they don't want the problems the Forest department got, so the harvest timber and improve the habitat in a hush hush  fashion so just know that they are doing a great job...   also if you have access to land yours, your neighbors   get your chain saw and pruning poles and get out there this winter and help make it better ,, drop some brows , open around some apple trees, plant some food plots if your able to..  I am always around on here if anyone has questions on how to do things..    ok  guess I better get off my soap box  sorry Nick ya got me started LOL....         BE SAFE THIS YEAR ON THE ICE AND HOPE TO SEE FOLKS IN THE BAIT SHOP FROM HERE  SPEAK UP WHEN YOUR THERE ...  THANK BRIAN  WHB&T

[MHC94]

Love the antler restrictions, hate killing all the doe in Muzzle.  I understand doe management is important for the herd, but there has to be a "herd" to manage.   Before it became all about the $$ to F&G, if there was a few years where there seemed to be a few deer around, they issued "some" doe permits, not 20,000+ every year.  Now, even after multiple harsh winters they continue killing the doe?  It's just ridiculous.  Give the bow hunter from Sept 15th to Dec 15th to hunt, change muzzle season to the week before our rifle and make it so you can kill one deer (maybe two in some zones) with a bow and one buck with a firearm.  That means if you shoot one the week of muzzle, your done, no rifle for you.  Grab your bow (by the way, I enjoy bow season as much as I do rifle, I am not partial).  Just like NH!  Seems to work for them, they're up 14% this year on their kill.  A year after the locals up near my camp in Stewartstown said it was the worst winter kill they have ever seen.  There will always be those guys that have a posted farm they hunt where there are some deer and say "there are plenty of deer, get out in the woods and actually hunt"!  I  will admit there are some guys out there that base their opinion on the deer numbers according to what they see from the truck, but I bust my a$$ every single second I can possibly get in the woods and I know the deer herd is WAY down. 

[johndeere540]

Whipplebuck, I absolutely agree agree with everything that you said except the fact that we are able to hunt from first day of archery to last day of muzzle with a bow! It is legal and a option to use a bow during our rifle season if chosen! lol And I think the state screwed us when they put all the clearcut restrictions on the logger! In order to have a strong herd you have to have habitat and a 60 or 70 acre clearcut grows a lot of feed and bedding! Now im not saying everyone should go out and clearcut their land cause there are places for them and it probably wouldnt be the whole side of a mnt that is visible to all the tree huggers from a highway.

[1Badboy]

Love the antler restrictions, hate killing all the doe in Muzzle.  I understand doe management is important for the herd, but there has to be a "herd" to manage.   Before it became all about the $$ to F&G, if there was a few years where there seemed to be a few deer around, they issued "some" doe permits, not 20,000+ every year.  Now, even after multiple harsh winters they continue killing the doe?  It's just ridiculous.  Give the bow hunter from Sept 15th to Dec 15th to hunt, change muzzle season to the week before our rifle and make it so you can kill one deer (maybe two in some zones) with a bow and one buck with a firearm.  That means if you shoot one the week of muzzle, your done, no rifle for you.  Grab your bow (by the way, I enjoy bow season as much as I do rifle, I am not partial).  Just like NH!  Seems to work for them, they're up 14% this year on their kill.  A year after the locals up near my camp in Stewartstown said it was the worst winter kill they have ever seen.  There will always be those guys that have a posted farm they hunt where there are some deer and say "there are plenty of deer, get out in the woods and actually hunt"!  I  will admit there are some guys out there that base their opinion on the deer numbers according to what they see from the truck, but I bust my a$$ every single second I can possibly get in the woods and I know the deer herd is WAY down.

if we are having a winter kill we arent killing enough does , their just being wasted IMO...
when they gave out 20k permits they still only killed like 1000-1500 deer !
i say give a ton of permits or just open it up for does all week , i see way to many does in groups this year ...

[johndeere540]

I do think we could stand to take a few more does but I say do it earlier so that we arent killing the bred does!

[Fish-On-VT]

yikes you are brave to post this here.  and pro boards new england chat you may want to also check out and post this on.

Oh I have no fear  ....  I eat, sleep, & breath all that is Hunting, Fishing, & the Great Outdoors 

[whipplebuck]

Oh I have no fear   ....  I eat, sleep, & breath all that is Hunting, Fishing, & the Great Outdoors 




howdy neighbor  shop opens Sat. 

[Fish-On-VT]

   ok  guess I better get off my soap box  sorry Nick ya got me started LOL....   

   

Brian I agree 110% with what you've said... that's one of the reasons I created the survey!! We the sportsmen & women of VT need to organize our thoughts into a common collection (such as my survey) so that they can be given to the F&W, the forestry, the State, etc... In mass quantity...  Right now I have only received 57 votes & I am very hopeful that we can reach 1000+... Please continue to spread the word on this

Thanks ~ Nick
(aka: Fish-On-VT )

[DyingBreed]

 #40 - #70 deer are not meat.......get some regs on youth wknds. They also need to learn ethics and rules application. Deer numbers suck. I was fortunate to take a good six in rifle.....and three point in muzzle...but to tell ya the truth..... more luck of the gods than anything...and I did put in way too much travleing to see only two bucks....! Antler restriction is ok in my mind....but we need deer to hunt in order to have such a plan. Shooting bred does is just idiotic. Ya don't throw the bull in with the hiefers and then slaughter um !    DUH !  Poaching is also up...when I get to a field well befor light after a dusting and truck tracks cover multiple fields already.....don't believe they were coon hunters !!!   

[1Badboy]

#40 - #70 deer are not meat.......get some regs on youth wknds. They also need to learn ethics and rules application. Deer numbers suck. I was fortunate to take a good six in rifle.....and three point in muzzle...but to tell ya the truth..... more luck of the gods than anything...and I did put in way too much travleing to see only two bucks....! Antler restriction is ok in my mind....but we need deer to hunt in order to have such a plan. Shooting bred does is just idiotic. Ya don't throw the bull in with the hiefers and then slaughter um !    DUH !  Poaching is also up...when I get to a field well befor light after a dusting and truck tracks cover multiple fields already.....don't believe they were coon hunters !!!   

just wondering what the differance is in a 70pd deer and the (at most) 120 pd 3pt you shot is ?
30 pds of meat ? MAYBE ?
to each their own ... unless you pay for someones tag , who are you to say how they fill it ?
i bet they payed the same you did for the tag...

[DyingBreed]

just wondering what the differance is in a 70pd deer and the (at most) 120 pd 3pt you shot is ?
30 pds of meat ? MAYBE ?
to each their own ... unless you pay for someones tag , who are you to say how they fill it ?
i bet they payed the same you did for the tag...

Very true. But we're talking about adjusting herd numbers useing regs. Same as raising a herd animal. You need to keep an age group of breedable animals......18 months versus 5. You can't continue to cull the 5 month olds and expect to continue to improve the herd number wise. The 18 month old may have a chance @ being bred and surviveing. Also being a wee bit older may be smart enough to fawn once atleast. Maybe not. Good conversation though. Thanks.

[bradroy55]

Another interesting fact that is often overlooked by people who oppose the antler restrictions, is that a spike horn doesn't have bad genetics, it may just be a young deer. Plus, the doe contributes 50% of the genetic code to the offspring, the buck doesn't provide it all, so even if a spike horn breeds a doe, the offspring isn't destined to be a spikehorn for the entirety of its life, it's just as likely to grow big and mature as if a 160 class racker bred the doe!

[iceman55]

I'm with you 100% some people got this idea of the perfect buck my opinion it's not going to happen unless you can control mother nature. I like the way spike law is turning out I've seen some pretty impressive bucks, a few more would be nice Hunter for 40 yrs.

[pikeaddict]

The problem with leaving the antler restriction in place, is you end up high grading the herd.  In the long run it will result in an overall herd of smaller bucks.  We are protecting the spike horn, which isn't genetically inferior... BUT bucks with better antler as a yearling, will have better antler thru its life.  I won't disagree that there are better bucks being taken now, but it won't last forever.  The state didn't intend to leave the reg in place too long, b/c they know this is a possible outcome.  They need to do what is best from a biological stand point, and not always what we the hunters think is right.

[northernfisher]

its funny that most people make the argument that a spike horn will always have smaller headgear later in life, but thats just not true, there are many studies out there that have been done that prove that myth wrong, here is one I just came across with a quick google search  http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/game_management/deer/antlers_inherited/

[DyingBreed]

 It's a 1900's mentality to think that a spike will always be inferior.......we don't keep 18in. pike because we think that it will never be a 40in. .........RIGHT They trust in us hunters/fisherman to be a tool in the management program.........We don't need GUN CONTROl forced upon us ( mine hits right where I aim personaly ) Some ethics training may be a better place to start. To each his own. Personaly, I would like for my grandchildren to have a quality herd to hunt.
 Now if we get #30-#40 of meat out of #70-#80 deer and #60-#80 of meat out of #100-#120 deer ( for example ).....is that not twice the meat ? That does not even take into account the size of cuts...just the # of meat. If it's THAT criticle.........GO FISHING !        Just one mans oppinion. Thank you for your time.

[Fish-On-VT]

91 responses so far....   

[pikeaddict]

its funny that most people make the argument that a spike horn will always have smaller headgear later in life, but thats just not true, there are many studies out there that have been done that prove that myth wrong, here is one I just came across with a quick google search  http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/game_management/deer/antlers_inherited/

The bar graph summarizing the data supports what I was saying.  No where did the spike at 1.5yrs old have higher results than bucks with 3pts or more at 1.5yrs old.  No spike or 3pt surveyed produced 10pts at 4.5yrs old. Also makes the statement yearling spike bucks will produce smaller and fewer points in following years than will fork-antlered yearlings.

[northernfisher]

The bar graph summarizing the data supports what I was saying.  No where did the spike at 1.5yrs old have higher results than bucks with 3pts or more at 1.5yrs old.  No spike or 3pt surveyed produced 10pts at 4.5yrs old. Also makes the statement yearling spike bucks will produce smaller and fewer points in following years than will fork-antlered yearlings.

  I don't think you read the article.  The bullet points below the graph say it all.  So I will put them here for you.

1.Looking at antler points of yearling bucks provided no correlation to antler development later in life.
2.Spike-antlered yearlings were just as likely to produce large antlers later in life as 6- to 8-point yearlings.
3.The prevalence of spike-antlered yearlings was correlated to birth date. No June-born bucks produced spike antlers, while 38 percent of September-born bucks produced spike antlers.
4.Overall, the captive herd only produced spikes on 20 percent of yearling bucks, while adjacent private-land produced spikes on 60 percent of yearling bucks, the only difference being nutrition.
5.The best two sets of antlers produced over the 15 years (168 and 195 B & C points) were both 3-point bucks as yearlings.
6.You can do little or nothing to improve antler genetics except to leave obviously superior bucks in the herd

[Hardwater fisher]

   I am with wipplebuck! We have food plots all over our farm we always cut for fire wood and clean the sugar bush. That being said we killed 5 bucks and 2 doe this year!  I also think it would be great to have three points on one side. Two deer limmit 1 buck1 doe your dine!!! stop shooting bred does in late season I haven't a clue why they didn't go through with early doe season but i'm for it!


   "LET EM GO LET EM GROW" (that is a WI motto it seems to work)

[finlessbrown]

  I don't think you read the article.  The bullet points below the graph say it all.  So I will put them here for you.

1.Looking at antler points of yearling bucks provided no correlation to antler development later in life.
2.Spike-antlered yearlings were just as likely to produce large antlers later in life as 6- to 8-point yearlings.
3.The prevalence of spike-antlered yearlings was correlated to birth date. No June-born bucks produced spike antlers, while 38 percent of September-born bucks produced spike antlers.
4.Overall, the captive herd only produced spikes on 20 percent of yearling bucks, while adjacent private-land produced spikes on 60 percent of yearling bucks, the only difference being nutrition.
5.The best two sets of antlers produced over the 15 years (168 and 195 B & C points) were both 3-point bucks as yearlings.
thats interesting, i've never heard of a deer being born in september
6.You can do little or nothing to improve antler genetics except to leave obviously superior bucks in the herd

[swamp puppy]

or you could do what other states have done and bring in genetically superior deer from somewhere like Saskatchewan to add to our deer herds gene pool.