Selective Harvest in PA

[JMZ]

Many people I talk to say they had a bad catch this year on the ice at SMALL lakes. As Doug Stange of Infisherman recommends we should lead by example and practice SELECTIVE HARVEST.  I read a research article from Butcher referencing the website named fish-species.htm that said it takes ABOUT 16 yrs for our fish to reach trophy size: Bass>20, Bluegill>9, Crappie>12, Perch>12, Pickerel>24, Walleye>24.
I'm not sure of the rules to follow but I only keep perch 9-12 in, crappie, 9-12 in, bluegill 7-10. 
I was also impressed when I fished with two members of Ice Shanty and they each only kept 8 medium sized panfish to eat. I was also disgusted when a friend of mine said he catches a bucket of bluegils and frys them at the club for his friends. He said that he gets free drinks all night. The cheap skate is retired with a good pension and could afford to buy his friends a few drinks.
If we practice Selective Harvest, maybe there will more large fish in the SMALL lakes to spawn. I am not jealous when I see someone holding a trophy fish the correct way; I wish they would say in their post that the fish went back or on the wall if they wish.

[ddgst7]

100% agree.  Way too many people keep female fish.  It's disgusting.  I'm nearly 100% C&R, the tug is my drug, I'd rather eat burgers and steaks anyhow.

[jaeger80]

Totally agree with this mentality.

[butcher]

Really good post JMZ. I have posted on this topic a few times over the years. At one point, I compiled a list of species by size and age. I pulled the data from the biologists reports on the PA Fish commission website Here are the highlights:

Bass (Largemouth)
15” (5.6 years)
20” (10.6 years)
22.5+” (>16.1 years)

Bass (Smallmouth)
15” (6.4 years)
20” (11.9 years)
22.5+” (>16.6 years)

Bluegill
8” (5.5 years)
9” (7.9 years)
10+” (>15.1 years)

Crappie
8” (3.4 years)
10” (5.2 years)
12” (8.0 years)
14.5+” (>18.8 years)

Perch (Yellow)
8” (4.0 years)
10” (6.3 years)
12” (10 years)
13.5+” (>16.7 years)

Pickerel
15” (4.1 years)
20” (6.9 years)
22” (8.6 years)
24” (11.4 years)
26+” (>17.7 years)

Walleye
16” (3.5 years)
20” (5.5 years)
24” (8.7 years)
28.5+” (>18.5 years)

When I examined the data for these seven species, I found a few interesting items:

•   Relatively speaking, walleye and pickerel tend to reach large sizes most quickly.
•   Bluegills grew at the slowest rate of any of the species I sampled.
•   Regardless of the species, it takes most fish at least 15 years to reach trophy size
•   Statistically speaking, it takes a LONG time for fish to grow the last few inches that separate big fish from trophies:
      o   LM Bass - 5.5 years to grow from 20” to 22.5+”
      o   SM Bass - 4.7 years to grow from 20” to 22.5+”
      o   Bluegill - 7.2 years to grow from 9” to 10+” (WOW!!!)
      o   Crappie – 10.8 years to grow from 12” to 14.5+” (WOW AGAIN!!!)
      o   Yellow Perch - 6.7 years to grow from 12” to 13.5+”
      o   Pickerel - 6.3 years to grow from 24” to 26+”
      o   Walleye - 9.8 years to grow from 24” to 28.5+”


After I spent some time reviewing the biologists' reports, I decided to self-impose a slot limit when I am fishing. Basically, any trophy-sized fish gets released to swim another day. Also, I never keep more fish than I will reasonably eat in one or two meals.

[MumbleSEED]

Nice job on this one guys.  Completely agree with all of you.  I usually keep enough to feed my family a fish dinner that week (I prefer my fish to never be frozen).  Everything else goes back in the drink.  Also I think the big ones taste funky sometimes and I'd rather them go to put those genes back into the pool so to speak. 

[jaeger80]

I posted this in the pickerel thread but it's more fitting here.  Both are hopefully still out there.

[polarkraft]

With this virus the lakes I fish a lot were jammed every day. I seen a lot of fish of all sizes and species going home in coolers. It will be interesting to see how some of these lakes fair in the next few years . I was taught only take what you need for one or two meals. I kinda wish they would lower the limits on crappie and perch on some lakes by me.

[jaeger80]

Amen.  We need slot limits.

[MCH1979]

I agree with all of you. Honestly may keep 20 fish a year. Enough to satisfy the tastebuds each year. I actually try to keep a few of every size. Don’t wanna take all the hogs out but also some of the small panfish in some lakes are as big as they’re going to get due to overpopulation. If you don’t take any out certain lakes will have a very bad imbalanced population. I love the idea of a different limit for crappie and perch! Great conversations fellas!

[ellmat19]

Yeah i have been fishing for many many years, This year has been a complete change to the fishing industry. I fish mainly large bodies of water with my bass boat and only catch and release due to being a tournament angler. I can say this has been the craziest year to date with amount of new people fishing. I am glad to see alot of new people taking to the water and enjoying the sport but please to keep the fisheries that we love so much please practice some common sense. Learn to be selective and practice Catch and release.  Also some may need to learn some manners.  .

[Drillin-n-Chillin]

Take what you need to have a meal or two and leave the rest for the future. I set a target of 2.5 fish per person per meal, so family of 4 = 10 panfish or 20 if I know Im not going fishing for a few weeks and would like a second dinner.

Seems like common sense to take care of the resources that take care of us....save some for the next person or next time etc. etc.. I like the idea of slot limits but do wonder what the ideal breading age is for the fish population to remain healthy. Should the slot leave the best breeders with a lower and upper keeper range and a no harvest range between those or a simple slot where fish from x-y are keepers and anything over or under goes back. I’m not sure what the right answer is and there are likely other variable that need to be considered. it is an interesting discussion and I wish I understood the science better but until I do I’ll stick with my 2.5 fish per person for a meal as that seems like a reasonable harvest for one meal every few weeks.

[JMZ]

Thanks Butcher, I should have quoted you.

[wiggly812]

JMZ:  you mentioned " holding a fish the correct way" for pictures then releasing.  I almost always practice CPR.  But what is the correct way to hold a fish?  I want to do as little harm as possible before releasing them.

[chapru]

This is a great topic. Several years ago I heard two senior citizens (of which I’m one) talking about taking 50 bluegills a day, for several days,  out of Lackawanna Lake to cook for their friends. I noticed that there’s posts from people where every time they go out they take a limit of panfish. How much can you possibly eat? Years ago I used to drill holes for some old timers at Francis Slocum. They b***hed about the size of the crappie as they threw a 6” see-through on the ice. My response was “how do you expect to get decent fish if you take the smaller ones out”. Naturally they got mad.
  For me my take is 10-12 panfish and that’s it. I really don’t want to be on the ice all day just to come home and filet fish.

[Unclegillhunter]

If all fisher folks had this attitude it would be great! One respondent on this thread mention wishing for lower limits. Be careful what you wish for. Where I fish the panfish limit is 15.That is a combination like 5 gills and 10 crappie. Some folks want it to go down to 10 fish. Fine with me as that is the number I keep if I keep. Just enough for a fresh fish and potato meal.
Keep it safe! JDL

[clayboy]

well first for me we are talking smaller impoundments? under 20 or 30 acers? if so then you need the healthy number of smaller bass to keep panfish in check. they eat more than the larger fish. Then you need more of the bigger panfish since they protect the fry. food also makes a difference in growth rate. look at some of the lakes or potholes in the Dakotas they got fresh water shrimp and the fish grow like crazy. JUst be mindful of what you are doing. you cant take 300 fish of large size from a smaller impoundment without consequences. you want a good to great fishery then care for it. those guys taking buckets are not sportsmen or women. take lake latonka in western pa. A private lake that is now desimated in fish age structure. guys pounded it for 3 straight years taking hundreds each trip. now there are dinks.

[jimhaney08]

Pennsylvania is a bit behind the time (shocking, right?) when it comes to panfish regulations.  A lot of northern states have not only lower limits, but their regulations are very lake specific.  Large and small lakes are quite different and the fertility of a lake has a lot to do with it. 

Unfortunately, it would take more intensive studies on more lakes to establish these kinds of management practices.  That means money, which means fewer trout to stock in streams they can't live in (personal pet peeve - but the trout guys who fish 1-2 days a year pay for a license just like we do).  I hope that PA can get with the times. 

The Big Bass Lake program doesn't seem to have panned out in my experience.  You end up with a lot of 12-14" fish and anything over 15" ends up getting taken home.  I think slot limits are the way to go!

[cajuntony]

Tru dat JMZ I was born and raised in Louisiana wit dat be n said we would fish and hunt to put food on da plate only takin wat we needed leaving da rest fer another day

[clayboy]

don't be amish. don't bit==h about small panfish then throw all you catch in a bucket. pretty simple starts with policing yourself first. if I keep 20 that's enough for me. not even half a limit. maybe you think that's too many but I threw back a 16.5 inch crappie last ice trip so I conserve and consume. we are the first line of conservation

[butcher]

Thanks Butcher, I should have quoted you.

No need to quote me JMZ. I was really happy that someone actually read and remembered it at all. When you said there was an article on the same topic on the PA fish commission site my initial thought was that I should have submitted it for publication. Personal bias aside, I found the results of my person mini research project (courtesy of the PA biologists) absolutely fascinating. It literally changed the way I fish. What I found most interesting was that 16 years seemed to be the magic number for ANY trophy sized fish in PA - regardless of species.

[bigfoot86]

I'm lucky if I take a handful of fish throughout the whole year.  Too lazy to clean them up and I eat more pork, beef and chicken than anything else.

[JMZ]

JMZ:  you mentioned " holding a fish the correct way" for pictures then releasing.  I almost always practice CPR.  But what is the correct way to hold a fish?  I want to do as little harm as possible before releasing them.

I think you have to pick up a fish by its mouth and touch its sides as little as possible. I know its tuff to do with pickerel; but wearing a plastic glove may work. I also noticed that a plastic glove stops the cold when you have to put your hand in the water to get a big pickerel out so it doesn't break your line with its teeth. Thanks for the question.

[PaCarpboy]

Good point JMZ.  I have seen guys use a towel to hold pickerel which is exactly what you don't want to do if releasing.  It removes the protective slime on the fish.  Best thing I have found for pickerel is one of those small boga grips.  Holds them by the lip with no damage and keeps their mouth open for easy hook removal without touching or getting your fingers shredded.

https://www.fishusa.com/Rapala-Floating-Fish-Grippers

[Catchnmore1]

Great post Butcher. Really makes you think when you see how long it takes to grow a trophy fish. I practice catch and release but don't blame anyone for taking fish. Just don't over do it. Take what you use- Use what you take.

[theTUGistheDRUG]

Very good thread and great research project Butcher! That info is amazing.  Do we want to wait 16 years between each trophy fish?  If not, we must protect and understand these resources.  This chart gives a great different vantage point on catching bigger fish.

I am fortunate to have close enough access to the Atlantic that I can fill the freezer from the BIG POND.  I hardly ever keep freshwater fish, save maybe a couple of walleyes and perch from Oneida a few times a year.  I love the thrill of catching big fish and personally choose to practice C&R to hope someone else (or even myself) can get the thrill of catching that same fish again some day.

Everyone is well within their rights to keep legal sized fish and I will never argue that fact, but considering future generations and growth rates is important when considering which fish you should keep.