Author Topic: Pickerel-Pike-erel? (Read 8618 times)

icechaser · « **on:** Mar 04, 2013, 02:37 PM »

So anyway when I talk pickerel-love fishing for the BIG ones: people are ALWAYS asking me if I'm sure they're not hybrids. Yes I am! I pretty darn good w/my taxonomy-And yes some water I fish contains BOTH species-Some ct. waters I fish have THREE Esox species-E. lucius, E.niger, & E.americanus: the redfin pickerel. Cute little tough guys the size of pike suckers. I often catch pike+pickerel in the same day-but they are often"true" pike or "true" pickerel which leads me to believe the two species have a slightly different spawning time/ strategy in waters containing both fish. But they CAN and DO overlap+ hybrids happen-both between pike+picks. AND between picks.+redfins. Wish I had a pic of a redfin hybrid-looks like a mini-muskie complete w/ stripes; not spots. Anyway here are two pics. First is a pike- second pic. is a true hybrid pike-erel! Pike is a 23" -Pike-erel a 21".

icechaser · « **Reply #1 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 02:42 PM »

4-got 2 mention- besides the difference in markings-hybrids will always have a deeper body profile+slightly different fin placement than the pickerel. Fish-on!

mr tip up · « **Reply #2 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 02:54 PM »

that pickeral does not look like it has any sign of pike in it i think pike and pickreal spawn at differnt times

lowaccord66 · « **Reply #3 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 02:58 PM »

That is a pickerel.

Oldfart · « **Reply #4 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 03:06 PM »

Eagle food. They are not picky.

Or is it pikey?

icechaser · « **Reply #5 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 03:14 PM »

Besides the fact that I have been in the fisheries program for the state for a few years and have spoken to the fisheries biologists about this very phenomena. Yes they confirm that ALL THREE species of Esox hybridize in ct. waters. So will Ct. DEEP And if you'd like to talk to a live person about it-Blaine or any of the knowledgable fishermen running CTO will tell you all about hybrid esox in ct. waters-And how to catch them! Here's a picture of a "true" pickerel caught by my kid bro. less than 50 ft. from where the hybrid was caught a day earlier. I KNEW I should have posted ALL the species together so people would see the diff.

icechaser · « **Reply #6 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 03:17 PM »

Look@ the middle picture-then the bottom one-and try to say it's the same fish. I don't lie; or brag; about fishing. It is my life. Just trying to educate the masses. I ain't no master: but I definitely know my drop shot.

icechaser · « **Reply #7 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 03:25 PM »

-And the hybrid had a partially scaleless gill cover-THE litmus test for pike vs. pick. if u know anything. I've had so many self-righteous flyguys @ campville trying to tell me I'm illegally keeping broodstock browns instead of broodstock salmon-I now carry in my pocket an old excerpt from Lee Wulff's Sportsman's guide detailing the difference & have actually taken the time to recite & show the differences outlined in said excerpt directly to them.

bigredonice · « **Reply #8 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 03:29 PM »

your going to want to read this post

http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=217975.0

Personally, The three fish I've seen posted so far in this thread were a Northern Pike and two Chain Pickerel. But then again I'm no expert either.

this picture should ad further confusion

Neat article on them
http://www.worldfishingnetwork.com/news/rare-hybrid-fish-caught-on-tape-235475.aspx

whats interesting to me is that everyone thinks the hybrid looks differently. I would like to see some actual scientific evidence on northern pike-chain pickerel hybrids occuring naturally, like an article published in any of the AFS publicationshttp://afsjournals.org/ ...

mr tip up · « **Reply #9 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 03:36 PM »

that top picture does not have the gold spots in the vertical postion or the greenish color still say both or pikeral that just my opion

NorthEastFisherman · « **Reply #10 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 04:06 PM »

I was watching a show awhile ago and i remember them saying that the blue pike (bottommost one in bigredonice's picture) is a true pike, while the middle one is the "hybrid". The bluer pike arent seen as much anymore or maybe thats just what i think. I have noticed that before though.

icechaser · « **Reply #11 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 04:20 PM »

I've even read blue pike are "extinct" in older fisheries books. She did have a deeply striped back like a pike w/ very orange/red fins. But those girls in the other pics'-wow! They look like the hybrid redfin-chain pic. I've seen; just much bigger. I wonder if ths is a different strain of pickerel- definitely possible; but I seem to only catch this "strain" in waters w/ northern pike present as well. I'd HAVE to keep the next one of these guys just to put it to rest. They look so different from all the other chains I've caught in person. I'd want to send some meat to a bio. for gen. testing to see if they're a cross. Esox is an awesome genus of fish-Yeah, this makes them a lot more confusing-but no less amazing.

icechaser · « **Reply #12 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 06:29 PM »

That pic w/ the three IS confusing: a good number of pike come from the ct. river looking like the middle fish in that vt. post. Also looking @ so many pics. of supposed hybrids-again many of the supposed hybrid fish online look again like ct. river pike. Those striped pike are HARDCORE hybrids-raises more questions than it answers-does parentage of the hybrids ie. male pike female pickerel determine marking pattern? Can hybrid fish breed or are they sterile? If hybrids can breed it may result in a different " strain" of Esox-carrying a majority trait from one species. Here's another hybrid pic from online w/ pike spots + pickerel fins.

?

lowaccord66 · « **Reply #13 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 06:43 PM »

Quote from: icechaser on Mar 04, 2013, 03:14 PM

Besides the fact that I have been in the fisheries program for the state for a few years and have spoken to the fisheries biologists about this very phenomena. Yes they confirm that ALL THREE species of Esox hybridize in ct. waters. So will Ct. DEEP And if you'd like to talk to a live person about it-Blaine or any of the knowledgable fishermen running CTO will tell you all about hybrid esox in ct. waters-And how to catch them! Here's a picture of a "true" pickerel caught by my kid bro. less than 50 ft. from where the hybrid was caught a day earlier. I KNEW I should have posted ALL the species together so people would see the diff.(Image removed from quote.)

Hybrids in CT, sure....both pictures you show are of pickerel! I caught some that look like your supposed hybrid in many places that have no pike...this thread has run it's course!

mr tip up · « **Reply #14 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 06:46 PM »

cool looking fish

icechaser · « **Reply #15 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 06:57 PM »

One more-Mongolian pike.Esox reichertii.

shotty · « **Reply #16 on:** Mar 04, 2013, 06:58 PM »

Wow that looks like a rainbow tout pickerel mix.

Oldfart · « **Reply #17 on:** Mar 05, 2013, 07:10 AM »

bigredonice · « **Reply #18 on:** Mar 05, 2013, 07:46 AM »

Icechaser - "blue pike" were actually a subspecies of walleye that used to be widespread in lake erie that has since been extripated.

Jessox80 · « **Reply #19 on:** Mar 05, 2013, 02:34 PM »

This image was taken from one of the links provided above. Although I am not sure icechaser's second picture shows enough of the fish to conclusively say its a 'pike-erel', there is no longer a doubt in my mind that they exist. Thanks for starting this thread, it is not the first I've seen of this nature on iceshanty, but it was the most informative.

mr tip up · « **Reply #20 on:** Mar 05, 2013, 08:42 PM »

those are some cool looking fish

icechaser · « **Reply #21 on:** Mar 07, 2013, 06:30 PM »

Book that said "blue pike" were extinct was an old natl' geo. book on fishing I have & the article does mention they came from the great lakes. -no pic. or other description.

This is ANOTHER pike -the silver pike.

Trooper Bri · « **Reply #22 on:** Mar 07, 2013, 06:48 PM »

I'm just confused now. You guys are making me dizzy.

Still trying to wrap my head around how many world record striped bass there are.

icechaser · « **Reply #23 on:** Mar 08, 2013, 11:55 AM »

Last one-really:ct's mini-pickerel: the redfin. I've caught these guys in clear, weedy sandy-bottomed trout brooks across the state-They're never really bigger than this guy though.

bigredonice · « **Reply #24 on:** Mar 08, 2013, 12:58 PM »

don't forget about these guys

icechaser · « **Reply #25 on:** Mar 08, 2013, 07:09 PM »

Oddly I don't see the grass pickerel where I fish-just redfins-But I usually fish central-southern-n.w. ct.

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Author Topic: Pickerel-Pike-erel? (Read 8618 times)

Trooper Bri