IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
Maine => Ice Fishing Maine => Topic started by: anglers on Mar 03, 2009, 04:47 PM
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The decline in Salmon fishing has been hurt the most by the Small Mouth Bass . 15 years ago trolling (spring or summer) you would catch 10 Salmon to every Bass, now 20 Bass to every Salmon. The Bass are eating up all the smelts and now its like fishing up to Indian Pond below Moosehead..Most people know how the Bass killed the Salmon and Trout fishing up there. Also the plastic worms in the Salmons gut do not help. I love catching Bass in a Bass lake, but not Long Pond. I kill my one Bass every time I go there.
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The decline in Salmon fishing has been hurt the most by the Small Mouth Bass . 15 years ago trolling (spring or summer) you would catch 10 Salmon to every Bass, now 20 Bass to every Salmon. The Bass are eating up all the smelts and now its like fishing up to Indian Pond below Moosehead..Most people know how the Bass killed the Salmon and Trout fishing up there. Also the plastic worms in the Salmons gut do not help. I love catching Bass in a Bass lake, but not Long Pond. I kill my one Bass every time I go there.
Thanks im sure every bass fisherman im Maine will appreciate that !!!!
Not everyone has man love for salmon sorry to have to tell you that ???
We all need to protect the fishing in Maine water 50ryrs from now our kids will be reading about how Maine fisherman tried to regulate fish population on there own and wiped out several fisheries while doing it we have people in place who manage these waters let them do there job !!!
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Thanks im sure every bass fisherman im Maine will appreciate that !!!!
Not everyone has man love for salmon sorry to have to tell you that ???
We all need to protect the fishing in Maine water 50ryrs from now our kids will be reading about how Maine fisherman tried to regulate fish population on there own and wiped out several fisheries while doing it we have people in place who manage these waters let them do there job !!!
Well said. :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Once again what's done is done. Now for all the salmon worshippers to reply ::).....
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thats great is a smallmouth will fight just as hard if not harder then a salmon thanks for the update :thumbsup:
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whats great is a smallmouth will fight just as hard if not harder then a salmon thanks for the update :thumbsup:
;D
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Smallies put up a wicked good fight :tipup:
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Smallies put up a wicked good fight :tipup:
And they'll survive when you throw them back :)
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And they'll survive when you throw them back :)
;D :clap: :clap:
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I can't get over all the people on this board who like to kill fish just because it's not the species they like the most.
What about the people who enjoy fishing for bass or pike or whatever? I guess that doesn't matter.
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Long live the smallies!!!
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I can't get over all the people on this board who like to kill fish just because it's not the species they like the most.
What about the people who enjoy fishing for bass or pike or whatever? I guess that doesn't matter.
Sorry to say mike but we wont win
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I can't get over all the people on this board who like to kill fish just because it's not the species they like the most.
What about the people who enjoy fishing for bass or pike or whatever? I guess that doesn't matter.
its a never ending battle but this is usually a summer time post
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The decline in Salmon fishing has been hurt the most by the Small Mouth Bass . 15 years ago trolling (spring or summer) you would catch 10 Salmon to every Bass, now 20 Bass to every Salmon. The Bass are eating up all the smelts and now its like fishing up to Indian Pond below Moosehead..Most people know how the Bass killed the Salmon and Trout fishing up there. Also the plastic worms in the Salmons gut do not help. I love catching Bass in a Bass lake, but not Long Pond. I kill my one Bass every time I go there.
Well I'm not to sure about this one . Sebago is one of the best Salmon lakes in the state I thought ??? I know it has tons and tons of smallmouth in it . Sooooooooooooo are you sure its the bass ???????????????????
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thanks GB i was ready to say that but moosehead is great to.that will get it going :P
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Sorry to say mike but we wont win
I know, but I'm really tired of listening to all these people talk about "slaughter" and what not. Worst of all is that some of the people who are showing photos of dead fish with their guts hanging out are fishing in areas I told them about! UGGG! That's why I haven't been posting photos or much of anything else. Too many people coming here just to kill the fish that many of us like to fish for. I just don't get it. On top of that, you see posts from people saying "where are all the fish?". Well, these people are just killing them all. Whatever . . .
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I know, but I'm really tired of listening to all these people talk about "slaughter" and what not. Worst of all is that some of the people who are showing photos of dead fish with their guts hanging out are fishing in areas I told them about! UGGG! That's why I haven't been posting photos or much of anything else. Too many people coming here just to kill the fish that many of us like to fish for. I just don't get it. On top of that, you see posts from people saying "where are all the fish?". Well, these people are just killing them all. Whatever . . .
I agree with you
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do you want to go salmon fishing and see what they eat mike?
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do you want to go salmon fishing and see what they eat mike?
I'll go with you and tally up all the rubber worms..........
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I'll go with you and tally up all the rubber worms..........
What do you think i use live bait lol
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What do you think i use live bait lol
:roflmao: :roflmao:
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I'll go with you and tally up all the rubber worms..........
I wrote an article on that topic this past year right before it came out in Field & Stream. It really is amazing how many plastic baits are on the bottom of our lakes and how bad they are for the fish. Of course I fish with a TON of them myself, so I'm a hypocrite. But seriously, I think that's going to be the next huge change in fishing. I wish I could figure out the solution - I'd be RICH! ;D
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I agree with you
Are you kidding me ???????????? You agree you don't like to see the slaughter ???????? What about perch ?????? Some like perch to ... Your going to hurt yourself with one leg on each side of the fence OUCH Talk about a hypocrite .
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I wrote an article on that topic this past year right before it came out in Field & Stream. It really is amazing how many plastic baits are on the bottom of our lakes and how bad they are for the fish. Of course I fish with a TON of them myself, so I'm a hypocrite. But seriously, I think that's going to be the next huge change in fishing. I wish I could figure out the solution - I'd be RICH! ;D
gulp is good i try to put everything that is used in the boat but you no its hard when you get stripped :-\
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I hear that. I remember back in the day we use to just bite off the top inch or so fo the bait and spit it in the lake. Never thought twice about it. Now we know that fish are eating those pieces and croaking.
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Are you kidding me ???????????? You agree you don't like to see the slaughter ???????? What about perch ?????? Some like perch to ... Your going to hurt yourself with one leg on each side of the fence OUCH
;D was waiting for something like that but to each there own right. What do you do with all your 3 to 5 inch perch when you catch close to 50 of them and none are bigger than that. You dont try to deplete the population to get them bigger ?? I dont know maybe I am just a hypocrit or I could be correct depends what side of the FENCE you are on !!!
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The bass are not the problem, the pike are not the problem. THERE ARE NO SMELT LEFT IN LONG POND! The bass feed well on the alewives, that is why you see healthy strong bass. The alewives are the problem. The salmon are NOT NATIVE to long anymore than the bass.
Mike... I too am sick and tired of the senseless slaughter. Maine is one of the only places I have fished where the concept of "trash fish" is accepted. I don't know what it is going to take to change this. My lake is in for a hammering like you've never seen this weekend. There are some guys coming down that ought to know better too. All on a pipe dream of winning some stupid prize they will likely never win.
I have one question for the self appointed killers of the trash fish -- who appointed you GOD?
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Are you kidding me ???????????? You agree you don't like to see the slaughter ???????? What about perch ?????? Some like perch to ... Your going to hurt yourself with one leg on each side of the fence OUCH Talk about a hypocrite .
ouch big diffrence i think if anything hurts the bait its perch and thats what the salmon and the others eat but you never here that its eather pike or bass or something big ;D
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I have one question for the self appointed killers of the trash fish -- who appointed you GOD?
Do perch count ?? ;D
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The bass are not the problem, the pike are not the problem. THERE ARE NO SMELT LEFT IN LONG POND! The bass feed well on the alewives, that is why you see healthy strong bass. The alewives are the problem. The salmon are NOT NATIVE to long anymore than the bass.
Mike... I too am sick and tired of the senseless slaughter. Maine is one of the only places I have fished where the concept of "trash fish" is accepted. I don't know what it is going to take to change this. My lake is in for a hammering like you've never seen this weekend. There are some guys coming down that ought to know better too. All on a pipe dream of winning some stupid prize they will likely never win.
I have one question for the self appointed killers of the trash fish -- who appointed you GOD?
i like that we have huge pike here and i think there all closet cases lol.Who wouldnt want to catch something like that.
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Do perch count ?? ;D
Yes all those little perch are good feed for Bass and pike .
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i like that we have huge pike here and i think there all closet cases lol.Who wouldnt want to catch something like that.
obviously alot of people since they fish for them ???
Yes all those little perch are good feed for Bass and pike .
Well there is no pike in there ( yet reported ) but there is crappie and it is stunting the growth of them. I can promise you this and people that fish this pond will tell you the same thing. If anything we are just trying to deplete the population. The auger thing was just all in fun looking to make people laugh. If I knew you guys were going to get in a big hissy fit over it I wouldnt of posted it especially since everybody does nothing but complian about perch.
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Long live the smallies!!!
:thumbsup: :clap: :thumbsup: :clap:
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SST don't get me wrong I loved that video . I just thought it was a little bit funny to hear you talking about not wanting to see people kill fish just for fun . It seemed kinda 2 sided thats all .
Back to the post . I DON"T THINK ITS THE BASS THAT KILLED THE SALMON FISHING IN LONG POND. I agree with JimP
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of course it does Kevin how do you think those bass in Tacomas get so big ;D
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Salmon need smelt to live and from what ive herd theres not allot there.It is to bad i dont want to see anyones fishing go down hill it kinda sucks :-[I think everyone should have a good time no matter what there fishing for.
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I was looking at a number of ponds around the state and the species that are in them on the state site. Donnell Pond, Flanders Pond and Sabattus are a few, and after the state tells you what is in them they'll say that due to illegal stocking of bass the small brown and brook trout are being cleaned out of the brooks. They say Donnell Pond had a native stock of salmon, but the bass are eating them also. The state also admits to making a mistake in stocking Lake Trout in Donnell Pond causing harm to the salmon population. Most of the time though it's the introduction of Bass that have them concern the most. Then on the other hand, the state said that they stocked Sabattus with bass because of the runoff from the houses around the lake that caused it to fill up with vegetation. At the end of each survey they say that stocking should be left to the state. I like to feel the tug of any fish, but would rather catch Tuna than Harbor Polluck. Maybe it's good to thin out some species that seem to overtake a lake, because if you don't you'll have a bunch of hammer handles. I asked our state biologist if we could put some pickrel in our pond on the island to eat up our yellow perch population and he said after they eat up all the perch then what? Who knows, the way the state is going we'll be lucky to catch a perch in the future.
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I was looking at a number of ponds around the state and the species that are in them on the state site. Donnell Pond, Flanders Pond and Sabattus are a few, and after the state tells you what is in them they'll say that due to illegal stocking of bass the small brown and brook trout are being cleaned out of the brooks. They say Donnell Pond had a native stock of salmon, but the bass are eating them also. The state also admits to making a mistake in stocking Lake Trout in Donnell Pond causing harm to the salmon population. Most of the time though it's the introduction of Bass that have them concern the most. Then on the other hand, the state said that they stocked Sabattus with bass because of the runoff from the houses around the lake that caused it to fill up with vegetation. At the end of each survey they say that stocking should be left to the state. I like to feel the tug of any fish, but would rather catch Tuna than Harbor Polluck. Maybe it's good to thin out some species that seem to overtake a lake, because if you don't you'll have a bunch of hammer handles. I asked our state biologist if we could put some pickrel in our pond on the island to eat up our yellow perch population and he said after they eat up all the perch then what? Who knows, the way the state is going we'll be lucky to catch a perch in the future.
You don't need pickeral in your pond,you need New Yorkers!
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Bass and Salmon occupy different niche's. I think salmon are only native to 4 places in Maine. Everywhere else they were introduced. If we don't respect what other fisherman enjoy we disrespect other fisherman.
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And they'll survive when you throw them back :)
Yeah... Just as long as you don't kill them ;D
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Bass have stricter limits on them than salmon and trout.
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I'm just telling you what the state feels about bass being introduced into a salmon pond, it has nothing to do with respect or disrespect. Some fish breed like rabbits and the more fish you have in a puddle the less there is for survival. I've seen schools of pogies come into a cove and all die for lack of oxygen.
The New Yorkers that come to the island in the summer ain't into fishing buddah.
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The New Yorkers that come to the island in the summer ain't into fishing buddah.
Figures ::)
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Bass and Salmon occupy different niche's. I think salmon are only native to 4 places in Maine. Everywhere else they were introduced. If we don't respect what other fisherman enjoy we disrespect other fisherman.
Amen.
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Wine and cheese. ;D
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In the summer of 2001, we received reports that some camp owners were catching smallmouth bass off their docks in the outlet cove. Sadly, in August, a biologist confirmed their presence. As this illegally introduced species increases in abundance, some will move into the outlet where they will compete with and prey upon wild young of the year salmon. Unfortunately, this is yet another classic example of how the epidemic of illegal introductions by the public is destroying some of our best fisheries. Maine’s highly important fishery resources are suffering considerable damage from these insidious acts.
This was from the Donnell Pond Survey, doesnt seem like different niche to me.
Smallmouth and largemouth bass are both non-natives but widely established in southern, central, and parts of eastern Maine. Since 1986, Maine fishery biologists have determined that illegal introductions have established new populations in 57 additional lakes! One of these illegal stockings occurred at Umbagog Lake in the upper Androscoggin River drainage, where they now threaten one of our nation's premier wild brook trout populations. Largemouth bass are being illegally introduced into many Downeast waters at an alarming rate with unpredictable consequences to long established, economically important smallmouth populations.
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I was looking at a number of ponds around the state and the species that are in them on the state site. Donnell Pond, Flanders Pond and Sabattus are a few, and after the state tells you what is in them they'll say that due to illegal stocking of bass the small brown and brook trout are being cleaned out of the brooks. They say Donnell Pond had a native stock of salmon, but the bass are eating them also. The state also admits to making a mistake in stocking Lake Trout in Donnell Pond causing harm to the salmon population. Most of the time though it's the introduction of Bass that have them concern the most. Then on the other hand, the state said that they stocked Sabattus with bass because of the runoff from the houses around the lake that caused it to fill up with vegetation. At the end of each survey they say that stocking should be left to the state. I like to feel the tug of any fish, but would rather catch Tuna than Harbor Polluck. Maybe it's good to thin out some species that seem to overtake a lake, because if you don't you'll have a bunch of hammer handles. I asked our state biologist if we could put some pickrel in our pond on the island to eat up our yellow perch population and he said after they eat up all the perch then what? Who knows, the way the state is going we'll be lucky to catch a perch in the future.
If I may,can i paint a picture of my views? When i was a kid,i was raised by my father,that a fish was a salmon,and brookies lived in the brooks and was caught in may-june. When i became a teen,i started to fish for smallmouths,and wasnt it fun! My father would scold me for wasting my time with trash fish!!!! Well, im 41 years old now,and we have largemouths here now,and i consider these to be inferior to the smallmouth. Some jerk stocked them,and now they will never go away.I think of my dad when i ponder this new species of fish.He was one of the old-timers that thought of nothing but salmon/trout /togue. Now here i am 25 years later, and i mourn for the black bass that i used to catch! What will my kids remember when they grow up?
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Steve, the whole stance that the state has toward "invasive" fish is ridiculous. Historically Bass were moved around willy nilly by the state. Umbagog was stocked by NH F&G. When these same fish migrate they claim they were illegally stocked. Musky came from Canadian F&G. Most Maine lakes were historically baron of trout and salmon. The reports you cited are just one bio's opinion piece and more likely reflect his own bias. Did he actually observe bass cleaning out the salmon? Or is this conjecture on his part. How many stomach's did he sample? Obviously this lake was stocked with salmon as I don't think they were native there.
It ends up being all about preference as man started playing GOD with fish a very, very long time ago. All this talk about what is pure makes no sense to me. How do you have stocked salmon and say they belong and stocked bass are not?
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I know, but I'm really tired of listening to all these people talk about "slaughter" and what not. Worst of all is that some of the people who are showing photos of dead fish with their guts hanging out are fishing in areas I told them about! UGGG! That's why I haven't been posting photos or much of anything else. Too many people coming here just to kill the fish that many of us like to fish for. I just don't get it. On top of that, you see posts from people saying "where are all the fish?". Well, these people are just killing them all. Whatever . . .
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And sadly these same people consider them seles "sportsman" I think the wasting of any species fish fowel or otherwise is unaccepable and should not be tollerated at any leve. People who take part in these actions should have their privlage to hunt or fish revoked/
just my $0.02
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On the topic of plastic baits (2 pages ago) I just wonder why no one has come up with a biodegradable solution? Worms, craws, etc that after so long just harmlessly dissolve. Now that might be a money maker right there for someone.
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I hear that. I remember back in the day we use to just bite off the top inch or so fo the bait and spit it in the lake. Never thought twice about it. Now we know that fish are eating those pieces and croaking.
:o I cant remmber who I learned that one from ???
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The gulp products are all biodegradable. I think some of the others are as well.
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kill every pike you see
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kill every pike you see
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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Steve, the whole stance that the state has toward "invasive" fish is ridiculous. Historically Bass were moved around willy nilly by the state. Umbagog was stocked by NH F&G. When these same fish migrate they claim they were illegally stocked. Musky came from Canadian F&G. Most Maine lakes were historically baron of trout and salmon. The reports you cited are just one bio's opinion piece and more likely reflect his own bias. Did he actually observe bass cleaning out the salmon? Or is this conjecture on his part. How many stomach's did he sample? Obviously this lake was stocked with salmon as I don't think they were native there.
It ends up being all about preference as man started playing GOD with fish a very, very long time ago. All this talk about what is pure makes no sense to me. How do you have stocked salmon and say they belong and stocked bass are not?
I love this post!!!! Salmon were not an native species around here,but they have become the holy grail among most people.
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Im not a Salmon Guy but this is interesting reading
http://www.state.me.us/ifw/fishing/species/management_plans/landlockedsalmon.pdf (http://www.state.me.us/ifw/fishing/species/management_plans/landlockedsalmon.pdf)
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kill every pike you see
people who have this attitude are no better then the bucket bio's in my opinion. bucket bio's put fish in water that they want to catch, you on the other hand wanna kill fish just because you don't like them....same thing in my book.
if i may, i would like to point out another reason for the demise of long pond salmon. i wish the salmon/trout fisherman would think back over the years and add up all the trout/salmon they have kept. a female brookie carries an average of how many eggs? i know not all eggs that hatch will survive, but if everyone practiced catch and release, well, every little bit would help and improve the fishery little by little. maybe some stiffer regs would also help. im also glad to see this thread is remaining civil.
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Steve, the whole stance that the state has toward "invasive" fish is ridiculous. Historically Bass were moved around willy nilly by the state. Umbagog was stocked by NH F&G. When these same fish migrate they claim they were illegally stocked. Musky came from Canadian F&G. Most Maine lakes were historically baron of trout and salmon. The reports you cited are just one bio's opinion piece and more likely reflect his own bias. Did he actually observe bass cleaning out the salmon? Or is this conjecture on his part. How many stomach's did he sample? Obviously this lake was stocked with salmon as I don't think they were native there.
It ends up being all about preference as man started playing GOD with fish a very, very long time ago. All this talk about what is pure makes no sense to me. How do you have stocked salmon and say they belong and stocked bass are not?
Jim, I've got to disagree. There is a difference between 'invasive' and 'introduced'. Have you ever heard of any salmon in Maine being described as 'invasive'? Wiping out other species? The only place I can think of that might apply is Deboullie (an accidental stocking), and even that is a stretch. I'd prefer to trust the judgment of a biologist stocking salmon according to a plan, than some idiot toting a pail full of bass yearlings to a pond because he wants to catch them there. That's how I say stocked salmon belong, and "stocked" bass do not. There have been bass introductions in 200+ Maine lakes in the last thirty years. I'd be willing to bet the state was only responsible for a small fraction of those. The bucket toting idiots account for the rest (including I believe, Umbagog). Most Maine lake were barren of trout? Really?? Or is this just conjecture on your part... In Long Pond, the salmon fishery has been ruined by illegal introductions of invasive species (pike, landlocked alewife). Which species were decimated by the introduction of salmon decades ago by biologists? Just throwing it out there... Ryan
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This might sound stupid, but from an honest stand point.
Can smelts be stocked?, if yes, can they reproduce??
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This might sound stupid, but from an honest stand point.
Can smelts be stocked?, if yes, can they reproduce??
They can and are stocked just very expensive! State doesn't really like to do it. >:( I fell it would bring a lot of ponds back if they did stock smelt.
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I hope if you guys are referring to me as wasting fish that were slaughtered you are very wrong. The fish I take are either eaten by me and my family or dispursed back into the community. Might just suprise you if you ask down at the country store if they know of anybody that would like to have a nice fish for a meal. The way the economical times are nowadays. People that cant get out to fish still like fish and are very happy with a free meal of fish. Got a few people around here that love pike now after the ones we brought back on Sunday. JUST DONT ASSUME THE FISH ARE BEING WASTED. :o :o :o >:(
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Will, I know you don't waste fish. You are like robin hood with game and fish. I do the same on a smaller scale in my little neighborhood. ;D ;D ;D
bbpinecone,
I'd prefer to trust the judgment of a biologist stocking salmon according to a plan, than some idiot toting a pail full of bass yearlings to a pond because he wants to catch them there.
I agree with this statement but don't agree that there are bucket biologists lurking around every corner. I'm an evolutionary sort of guy, I think you get a ground zero from a bucket guy and nature takes over. I can trace the spread of pike from sabattus to infected waters without the help of any bucket bio. Many of the bass end up stocked in one place and end up others. Fish swim and high water years (last 2 come to mind, 9 of the last 20) move fish around. Proven fact.
Most Maine lake were barren of trout? Really?? Or is this just conjecture on your part...
I should have said many not most but it is not conjecture on my part that many of the current waters that contain trout and salmon were originally stocked by man. The late 1800's with all the growth in rail and the advances in transportation were an extremely prolific era in fish movement.
Which species were decimated by the introduction of salmon decades ago by biologists? Just throwing it out there...
You are not going to like this answer at all. :o Relax, it is just my opinion and I love salmon too, above all others even but salmon are just as upsetting to an environment as any other fish when they are introduced. Do they eat? Look at the food wars going on at moosehead and sebago. Two classic examples of playing God. no bucket, just state trucks.
Since only 4 lakes originally contained salmon in Maine it could be said that salmon has been the most introduced species ever. Maybe the brook trout could give it a run for it's money. How many of them have we stocked, transplanted, bred in captivity and introduced.The only difference in my mind is we love these fish above all others and place greater value on them. ;D That is fine but I will never understand hating a fish mainly because it is not a salmon or trout.
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They can and are stocked just very expensive! State doesn't really like to do it. >:( I fell it would bring a lot of ponds back if they did stock smelt.
It must real expensive, with the Salmon crises at EG and Long just to name a couple. I can think of doz.'s of smelts that have died in my bait bucket after a long weekend of fishing, but we cant dump them down the hole...
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Thanks im sure every bass fisherman im Maine will appreciate that !!!!
Not everyone has man love for salmon sorry to have to tell you that ???
We all need to protect the fishing in Maine water 50ryrs from now our kids will be reading about how Maine fisherman tried to regulate fish population on there own and wiped out several fisheries while doing it we have people in place who manage these waters let them do there job !!!
Uhm Uhm!!!!! I couldn't have said it better myself.
I just think that the frustration of someone getting the wrong fish is just plain idiotuic. So what...It wasn't a salmon, but guess what it was a fish and from the sound of it there were 20 of them when you trolled to the one salmon. Good day fishing to me.
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S-13: No size or bag limit on bass.
That is the special regulation on the lake where our camp is. Why? Probably because it is historically a salmon fishery and the bio's would like to keep it that way. I fish for smallmouth in the dog days of summer when at camp and I keep everyone. And I wont say what I do with most of them because I know how sensitive most people on here are.
After reading all these posts, one thing to thinks about. Whether stocked, illegally introduced, or migrated bass and pike have had obvious negative impact on trout and salmon. OBVIOUS. Has a salmon or trout ever negatively impacted bass or pike? The anwser is no. I don't care what you fish for, but I will do what I can to help the fishery I enjoy.
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S-13: No size or bag limit on bass.
That is the special regulation on the lake where our camp is. Why? Probably because it is historically a salmon fishery and the bio's would like to keep it that way. I fish for smallmouth in the dog days of summer when at camp and I keep everyone. And I wont say what I do with most of them because I know how sensitive most people on here are.
After reading all these posts, one thing to thinks about. Whether stocked, illegally introduced, or migrated bass and pike have had obvious negative impact on trout and salmon. OBVIOUS. Has a salmon or trout ever negatively impacted bass or pike? The anwser is no. I don't care what you fish for, but I will do what I can to help the fishery I enjoy.
Keep telling yourself that ::).......it's not going to do a damn thing.
Don't get me wrong. People who are illegally introducing species into lakes and rivers have no place in this world as fishermen and sportsmen. The problem is that it is so easy to do. Think about it, how easy would it be for any of us on here to catch some fish, trout, perch, bass, pike whatever, put it into a bucket with some water and travel down to another body of water and put in those fish? VERY EASY. And probabaly not one person would see you do it.
As for the question of stocking smelts into lakes that need it, I believe the state needs to take a hard look at this. This is why many of the trout and salmon waters are declining.
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I can say its not nature thats weakening the salmon and trout population, its people. You know why the bass are so healthy and populated? So many people practice the (ART) of catch and realease. Ok, now if the 1000's of people did this with trout and salmon instead of keeping their limit everytime this would obviously help alot. Some people had their ways of today implanted in them at a young age. Its just like a bad habit, they just can't shake it..My father and the people I was around when I was a young kid always told me if your not going to eat the fish put it back for another day no matter what species it may be...
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I'm wondering if the state would be better off spending the $$ to stock smelt and improve smelt spawning habitat rather than stock salmon and trout. I fish Alligator lake and believe IF&W stocked smelt in there for a while. Seemed to help the quality in the short term but not so much now.
Also I remember reading that there was a big effort to stock smelt in Moosehead (I might be wrong).
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I've lived in Maine my entire life. I used to work for a company that sent all over the US and overseas. I've been to France, Spain, Britain, Germany, Puerto Rico, Mexico, down south, out west, mid west, the south west, from my experienses and my honest opinion, WE HAVE IT DAMN GOOD HERE IN MAINE!!!. Every trip I went on I couldn't wait to get back. The ME IF&W does the best job that they can, and I think they do a great job. Just wanted to keep things in perspective is all........
Now carry on. :P
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I'm wondering if the state would be better off spending the $$ to stock smelt and improve smelt spawning habitat rather than stock salmon and trout. I fish Alligator lake and believe IF&W stocked smelt in there for a while. Seemed to help the quality in the short term but not so much now.
Also I remember reading that there was a big effort to stock smelt in Moosehead (I might be wrong).
I agree.
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Have stayed away from this site and all the controversy for some thirty days, in returning I find it has only gotten worse. We have this ongoing, running argument now between those who prefer warmwater species to those who prefer coldwater gamefish species. Why don't we just debate a woman's right to choice on the issue of abortion as it will get us just as far, which is nowhere! Dictating personal preference to those with differing viewpoints is a waste of time and divides our house! This type of controversy is bad for IS Team Maine and only feeds into the hands of special interest groups like PETA that want to end our sport altogether. I personallly am a diehard coldwater game fisherman, none of these rantings will change my personal right to fish for the species I love to target, so please leave your personal bias/opinions about what you feel is right/wrong with other peoples preferences about fishing at the doorstep when you come onto this site! Jim P am a little disappointed in your recent comments regarding landlocked salmon one of the premier most sought after gamefish in the state of Maine! DIFW has spent a great deal of time, money and research putting these fish in the right lake at the right time. Salmon need deep, cold, well oxygenated habitat with hopefully lots of streams/inlets for spawning opportunity. Only certain lakes qualify with optimum habitat which is where they have concentrated thier efforts. Warmwater species can survive just about anywhere, so why can't DIFW continue to target these special waters with salmon stocking/management programs? Okay I've had my say, so maybe I'll just go away and come back to myfishfinder in April. ??? ??? ???
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Emerald, sorry to disappoint you but I think you should try and re-read the thread. It is not about cold water vs warm water at all. It is about respecting nature and everything in it. It is also about understanding the complex cause and effect relationships all these fish have. I didn't take any cheap shots at DIF&W. You will not find a bigger supporter. If fact I am often referred to as an apologist for the department. I just have my own opinions, I try not to use words like good and bad. I do have a problem with the states management of invasive fish, I feel they are moving in the wrong direction. They know how I feel, probably think I'm nuts. ;D I fish with some of these guys and have had long discussions. It doesn't mean we are not friends. We are.
I'm also sorry you have such a dim view of the discussions about this subject in general, you are not alone. I think it is healthy, I have changed more than one opinion after reading threads like this one. I wish more would try and see things from another persons perspective. That is what I get out of them.
About the salmon, All I did was point out the historical facts as I understand them. I never said it was bad or good only that it happened that way. Salmon is the number one fish I love to fish for these days. I'm glad they have been moved to so many places but from a purists point of view they are still an introduced species. Why is acknowledging that fact so bothersome? How can some declare that salmon have a greater right to be in Long than the native smelt? or even the bass? My overall point is that angler preference has is does drive these decisions, once you go down that road what do you do when angler preference changes over time? I think that is where we are heading. Again, not good or bad just preference...
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Wow some of these posts are like a book.Bass i feel are native to Maine now because Ive been catching them all my life "I'm 36" ;D I hate trolling all day to catch one five pound salmon but that's my choice and if i do catch one 99.9 percent of the time it would go back in the water.I no some of you guys would be ripped if i used it for yote bait or eagle food.Its real depressing to see my way of fishing shunned so bad.Cant we all just get along ;D
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All kids who love to fish appreciate your efforts at killing all of the bass.
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All kids who love to fish appreciate your efforts at killing all of the bass.
What are you talking about ???
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which fish species were put in Long pond legally and which illegally---- thats where I draw the line.
about 5 years ago Long was opened up to us ice fishermen for the specific purpose of removing pike---- was it not?
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All kids who love to fish appreciate your efforts at killing all of the bass.
sorry i get it ;D
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sorry i get it ;D
SLOW :cookoo:
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Don't need to re-read your reply Jim P, got it quite thoroughly the first time. The first part of my reply was not directed at you, it was directed at the general tone and direction that this topic and many, many others just like it have taken as of late. We don't need fish species tolerance and diversity training here on ICESHANTY in my opinion. I think there is much fish philosophy and amchair biology going on here. Maybe National Geographic might be interested! :cookoo: ::)
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(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f164/2naboot/fish_eradication_sign.jpg)
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Don't need to re-read your reply Jim P, got it quite thoroughly the first time. The first part of my reply was not directed at you, it was directed at the general tone and direction that this topic and many, many others just like it have taken as of late. We don't need fish species tolerance and diversity training here on ICESHANTY in my opinion. I think there is much fish philosophy and amchair biology going on here. Maybe National Geographic might be interested! :cookoo: ::)
As an employee of National Geographic, I would say that they may very well be interested, but certainly as much for the curious anthropological findings (so many different species of human with arrested development, homo salmononlycus and homopikehaticus, and homosonaiveIcanbelieve itus for just a few) as much as the nature and geographic aspect. :D
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I can say its not nature thats weakening the salmon and trout population, its people. You know why the bass are so healthy and populated? So many people practice the (ART) of catch and realease. Ok, now if the 1000's of people did this with trout and salmon instead of keeping their limit everytime this would obviously help alot. Some people had their ways of today implanted in them at a young age. Its just like a bad habit, they just can't shake it..My father and the people I was around when I was a young kid always told me if your not going to eat the fish put it back for another day no matter what species it may be...
I think you are right on with this . The bag limits on trout and salmon should be tightend up a bunch and it would have to help some . I know most everyone here knows of a brook or a beaver pond that was right full of trout at one time and as people found out about it the fishing went down hill quick . It was people cleaning them out not bass or pike in these areas . On a bigger scale as the population of the state grows more and more .Roads get made getting us into more and more areas of the state to fish out all the trout . Also development of the state and lakefront property has brought down the water quality . There are tons of reasons for the decrease in trout . Most were brought on by people in one way or another . If it were not for our stocking system the trout and salmon fishing would be almost non existant with the exceptions of areas that see very few people . There wild trout would still thrive. .02
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I think you are right on with this . The bag limits on trout and salmon should be tightend up a bunch and it would have to help some . I know most everyone here knows of a brook or a beaver pond that was right full of trout at one time and as people found out about it the fishing went down hill quick . It was people cleaning them out not bass or pike in these areas . On a bigger scale as the population of the state grows more and more .Roads get made getting us into more and more areas of the state to fish out all the trout . Also development of the state and lakefront property has brought down the water quality . There are tons of reasons for the decrease in trout . Most were brought on by people in one way or another . If it were not for our stocking system the trout and salmon fishing would be almost non existant with the exceptions of areas that see very few people . There wild trout would still thrive. .02
Great points Blaster 8).
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I can say its not nature thats weakening the salmon and trout population, its people. You know why the bass are so healthy and populated? So many people practice the (ART) of catch and realease. Ok, now if the 1000's of people did this with trout and salmon instead of keeping their limit everytime this would obviously help alot. Some people had their ways of today implanted in them at a young age. Its just like a bad habit, they just can't shake it..My father and the people I was around when I was a young kid always told me if your not going to eat the fish put it back for another day no matter what species it may be...
I agree 100%! :)
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I know I'm only a "rookie" but here's my 2 cents worth on this post . I knew it would be a hot post from the time I saw it yesterday. I agree with the majority here that the smallies are not the problem and that you shouldn't kill a species of fish just because they are trash to you and that's not what you were fishing for. "Anglers" started this post and hasn't responed..... ??? If you are going to start a fire, stick around to keep it going. To his defense, he did say he kept his ONE bass a day. He is entitled to that. What he does with the fish is up to him.
However, I have fished since I was 4 years old. I still remember going fishing with my Dad down at York Pond to catch brookies with a worm and bobber.. :) Since, all I want to do is fish -especially for bass and pike! Do I hate salmon or trout? Of course not, I just don't fish for them. Do I want to kill any species besides bass or pike? Nope. Maybe, back in the day you shouldn't have kept so many salmon and trout and that would have helped with the State's stocking program. Let's face it, slamon and trout are very delicate(hate to use that word on this website) and even though you release them, there's a good chance a large percentage of them won't survive(unlike bass and pike).
Don't ruin my day of fishing just because I fish for "junk" fish- or my 10 year old son's for that matter. If he or I were to catch a salmon, we would release it, unless we wanted to "meet" our daily allowance. Time for me to go. I have to go slash all the tires on Ford trucks in the neighborhood just because I drive a Chevy........ . :laugh: JUST GO OUT AND FISH AND HAVE FUN NO MATTER WHAT YOU CATCH.
P.S. Sorry if this post is late. I type slow.
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people who have this attitude are no better then the bucket bio's in my opinion. bucket bio's put fish in water that they want to catch, you on the other hand wanna kill fish just because you don't like them....same thing in my book.
if i may, i would like to point out another reason for the demise of long pond salmon. i wish the salmon/trout fisherman would think back over the years and add up all the trout/salmon they have kept. a female brookie carries an average of how many eggs? i know not all eggs that hatch will survive, but if everyone practiced catch and release, well, every little bit would help and improve the fishery little by little. maybe some stiffer regs would also help. im also glad to see this thread is remaining civil.
Well put....
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(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f164/2naboot/fish_eradication_sign.jpg)
IF&W had to do that to a pond in Limestone (twice I believe) because someone chose to stock smallmouth bass. Expensive to say the least.
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I wouldn't put all the blame on people, not in a direct way as in fishing them out. The state will dump 3000 or more brook trout in Eagle Lake on MDI each year and when they do the Shags, Loons and Otter get their share not to mention the touge. The ones that get the most pressure from people are the ones in ponds close to big cities or towns. Lakes that have cabins or houses every 1/4 acre where people live year round can contribute to all kinds of stuff getting into the watershed that could kill off a bunch of fish. Runoffs from roads, lawns, illegal basement drain that sometimes have chemicals in them that would make a yellow perch puke and even washing the boat or car. I can remember when I used to live in Lewiston I would go out to my car in the morning and it would be all covered with soot, didn't look good on a 1967 Cannary Yellow, Camaro SS, what did it do to the lakes.
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didn't look good on a 1967 Cannary Yellow, Camaro SS, what did it do to the lakes.
At least you can get that baby going fast enough to blow that soot off!! your cool :afro: stock just went up a little Steve :bow:
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350,295hp, Muncie 4 speed and convertible. 8)
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Personally, I like catching ANY fish.
I just like fishing. Plain and simple.
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As an employee of National Geographic, I would say that they may very well be interested, but certainly as much for the curious anthropological findings (so many different species of human with arrested development, homo salmononlycus and homopikehaticus, and homosonaiveIcanbelieve itus for just a few) as much as the nature and geographic aspect. :D
Would love to stay and chat further on this issue but right now I am out the door to buy an out of state fishing licence and then I'm off to fish "Cry me a river", or "Bleeding Heart Pond". havn't decided on which one yet! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
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IF&W had to do that to a pond in Limestone (twice I believe) because someone chose to stock smallmouth bass. Expensive to say the least.
only once brook runs adjacent to my property and there were signs there too but guess what didnt work the bass are still there the kiker is everyone knows who did it introed them therealso when they stock it the fish dont have a chance as they are dumping the trout people are casting right into the stream of fish cars line up following a stocking truck might just as well dip a net into the truck when they do stock they need to close the area to all fishing for 2 weeks!
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people who have this attitude are no better then the bucket bio's in my opinion. bucket bio's put fish in water that they want to catch, you on the other hand wanna kill fish just because you don't like them....same thing in my book.
if i may, i would like to point out another reason for the demise of long pond salmon. i wish the salmon/trout fisherman would think back over the years and add up all the trout/salmon they have kept. a female brookie carries an average of how many eggs? i know not all eggs that hatch will survive, but if everyone practiced catch and release, well, every little bit would help and improve the fishery little by little. maybe some stiffer regs would also help. im also glad to see this thread is remaining civil.
I do agree with you on there are way to many Salmon and Trout kept .Of the 20 plus years I have kept one Salmon, (actualy my 6 year old son did) had a rubber worm in its gut on Long Pond.
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rubber worm? bass fisherman use rubber worms..........its the bass fisherman are the ones for the down fall off long :-\