Automatic Fisherman for trout.

[goldenballs]

Yes....I looked over a few models of automatic rigs for fishing.  Yes, the models where a flexed rod (like a downrigger) is used are legal here in Canada too.  But there have been models that used pre-wound springs, motors, bungee cords etc and those are illegal in Canada.

A bunch of years ago, I saw a spring loaded hook.  This was not a homemade thing either...it was manufactured.  The way it worked was that there was a small baited hook linked to a trigger mechanism and when a fish bit the baited hook, he triggered a large spring loaded hook that slammed down on the fish (or up) and hooked it from the outside of it's mouth.  After the big hook was tripped, the harder the fish pulled, the harder the large hook would dig into the fish.  Very ingenious....very unsporting.

Also a bunch of years ago, (this was before jigs were popular) for walleye fishing, we used a lure called a Canadian Wiggler.  It's a lure shaped like a J-Plug and has a very erratic action that walleye love.  Anyway, this lure had a rear treble hook and at the belly, there were 2 treble hooks on small outriggers just like those found on the old Flatfish lures.  These outrigger hooks have been replaced with a single treble hook at the belly of the lure.  I haven't seen any outrigger hooks in a long time.  I guess that there were too many complaints concerning the use of these hooks.

interesting stuff. here in the states at least at cabela's they still offer flatfish with those outrigger hook setups you speak of. was suprised myself as im not a big fan of those hook setups.

[Wiener]

I got the Automatic Fisherman for Christmas this year.

I thought it was a gimmick, and told the wife "it's just what I wanted".

Started using the Automatic Fisherman and have caught numerous fish on it.

It's caught Bass, Crappie, Perch, Walleye, Trout (Brook trout and Rainbows), Whitefish, and Northern Pike.

I have had it "trip" and lost the fish, but the success ratio  is way better than a "regular" tip up.

I have the model that came with the 23" fishing rod, and it works great.

Hope this helps,


Wiener

[Sullymon]

Yeah, a true sportsman would use a regular tipup so the fish can swallow the bait!?!?  That makes  absolutely no sense.  I think a tipup that would set the hook instead of the fish swallowing the bait is a great idea ... especially for people like me who like to practice catch and release.

... talk about thinking before you post.  Oh and wrecking someone elses equipment is VERY sporting!

What a true sportsman you are dabluz ... 

[dabluz]

Yeah, a true sportsman would use a regular tipup so the fish can swallow the bait!?!?  That makes  absolutely no sense.  I think a tipup that would set the hook instead of the fish swallowing the bait is a great idea ... especially for people like me who like to practice catch and release.

... talk about thinking before you post.  Oh and wrecking someone elses equipment is VERY sporting!

What a true sportsman you are dabluz ... 

I rarely use a tip up.  I do 99% of my fishing with just the rod I hold in my hand.  With the rod in the hand, I have the choice to strike quickly or let the fish run with the bait and striking when I think I will catch a fish.  That's the sport of fishing.  I have nothing against catch and release.  I eat most of what I catch.  Sure, I'm allowed to catch and keep 20 brook trout where I live.  20 brook trout is way too many for me to eat and I'm sure not going to feed the neighbourhood.  If the neighbours want fish, they can go fishing.  I release the fish that have not sustained life threatening damage.  I have nothing against "whip ups" as an automatic fishing rig for trout.  Yes, you do have a point about the bait not being swallowed deeply however, again, there is the point about sportsmanship. 

If I ever see someone using an illegal method of fishing, I am not going to turn away and pretend that it's all right.  If the person is not present, (usually the case when an illegal rig is used) I will destroy his illegal setup.  A "whip up" (along the lines of a downrigger) is not an illegal method of fishing.

[Sullymon]

Well that I can certainly agree with.  I myself rarely use tipups ... I am a jig fisherman 99% of the time.  One of the reasons I don't like tipups for trout is the fact the hook almost always gets swallowed, so if something like the automatic fisherman could greatly reduce this occurrence, I say bravo.  I don't have any experience with that type of rig, but if it works like people say it does, then I'd have to give it a thumbs up ... guess I'd have to try it and see for myself. 

But again, I still prefer to use my rod and jig.  I guess I compare it to open water ... some like to sit back and troll or watch tipups ... and some like to hunt them down with rod and reel cast after cast, hole after hole.  As long as you're catching them legally and having fun, that's what it's all about.

As far as seeing an illegal rig setup somewhere, I'd seriously think about calling the D.E.C. hotline before taking the law into my own hands ... there are some crazy people out there and you just never know.

[dabluz]

In any event, there is no winter fishing for brook trout where I live.  During the trout season, we are allowed only one line.  However, the Saguenay river is open year round and there are brook trout.  During the icefishing season, we are allowed an unlimited number of tip ups and an unlimited number of hooks but the fishing is for salt water species of fish like cod, ocean perch etc.  Close to shore, we fish for smelt and it's always with a handheld rod.  The brook trout that people do catch are accidental catches when fishing in the shallow fresh water parts of the river.  The limit is 5 brook trout.  Very few icefishermen specifically target the brook trout.  However, during the softwater season it's the exact opposite....the fishermen fish for the brook trout it's mostly fishing from shore.

Even though I am allowed to use tip downs for icefishing on the Saguenay, I prefer only cutting a couple of holes and fish with rod and reel.

[Wiener]

I limited out on trout twice this year, and I can honestly tell you that the Automatic Fisherman did not gut hook a single fish. 

Of all the fish that I have caught on this rig, none of them have been hooked deep, and the fish that I released were in better shape than some that I released that were caught on tip ups.

I also enjoy to catch fish jigging, but I also have a couple of tipups out as well.


Tight lines,


Wiener

[Sullymon]

That's good to hear ... I think I might have to check those things out.  Unfortunately I just upgraded my tipups for this year and bought new ones.  Wish I looked into those earlier, but I saw a deal and had to make a move.  Oh well, maybe next year.

[kiltman]

BigRedonice;

No need for such comments. How can you call yourself a sportsman if you'd run over a fish trap?
Any where these things are legal, they can be used.
Most Provinces and States in the U.S. have laws preventing actions such as you describe. "The right to enjoy (your State/Province here) resouces fish/hunt with out harassment.

Enuff of the banter.
I do wish you good luck fishing.

[Sullymon]

BigRedonice;

No need for such comments. How can you call yourself a sportsman if you'd run over a fish trap?
Any where these things are legal, they can be used.
Most Provinces and States in the U.S. have laws preventing actions such as you describe. "The right to enjoy (your State/Province here) resouces fish/hunt with out harassment.

Enuff of the banter.
I do wish you good luck fishing.

BigRedOnIce never said anything of the sort ... he was quoting Dabluz.  You should have read the posts a little better I believe.

[dabluz]

BigRedonice;

No need for such comments. How can you call yourself a sportsman if you'd run over a fish trap?
Any where these things are legal, they can be used.
Most Provinces and States in the U.S. have laws preventing actions such as you describe. "The right to enjoy (your State/Province here) resouces fish/hunt with out harassment.

Enuff of the banter.
I do wish you good luck fishing.

You should spend more time reading before writing.  I said if the thing was illegal and the fisherman was not there, I would destroy it.  Where I live, I only have to go about 15 miles north and there are no more villages, towns, gas stations....nothing except bush and lumber companies.  After that, it's tundra.  I only have to drive about 15 miles and there is no cellular phone service either.  There are only a handful of conservation officers to cover the whole area.  This is vacation time for the conservation officers so their numbers are further decreased.  The only way to travel is by snowmobile over very long distances.  Fishing is closed during the winter in these back woods.

When I find a person fishing illegally, I take photos of him and his vehicle and then I take it to court as the prime witness.  I used to be a conservation officer and I do exactly what conservation officers do in a similar situation when no one is around.  They destroy illegal contraptions if they cannot haul them back out to civilization.  When I see people doing something illegal, I confront them.  I am not afraid of anybody.  I am a grumpy old man.  All this crap in Afganistan, Iran, Iraq would be finished if they had sent grumpy old men instead of young men.  Grumpy old men are a thing to be reckoned with.  They are short tempered, they know that they are nearing the end of their lives and don't have the time to wait around doing nothing.  You will never catch them sleeping because they get up to pee about every hour.  The lack of sleep makes them all the more grumpier.

[venom]

  Here they are.
http://www.automaticicefisherman.com/

Now Im out the door for a bit to head out fishing for a few hours.

[Sullymon]

I am a grumpy old man.  Grumpy old men are a thing to be reckoned with.  They are short tempered, they know that they are nearing the end of their lives and don't have the time to wait around doing nothing.  You will never catch them sleeping because they get up to pee about every hour.  The lack of sleep makes them all the more grumpier.

That is some funny stuff Dabluz ... almost spilled my coffee (and yes, I drink coffee at noon + all day ... makes me pee a lot)

[dabluz]

That is some funny stuff Dabluz ... almost spilled my coffee (and yes, I drink coffee at noon + all day ... makes me pee a lot)

If you are not already a grumpy old man, when you ever become one, you will find that it can be fun too.  You get away with a lot of stuff.  Like forgetting things.  Something you don't want to do....you just forget it and blame it on old age.  Also dressing the way you want, demanding the right of way, being obnoxious when you feel like it.  Talking or even a bit of lewdness with young good looking chicks.  Everybody will blame your little quirks to your age but you know that you are just taking advantage of a situation and don't give a hoot as to what others may think.

Yeah....coffee makes me pee too.  I never bring beer when fishing....I'm not much of a beer drinker so I bring along a thermos of coffee.  If I drown when fishing, I'm sure that I will be among the majority of fishing/drowning victims....my fly will be open.  And since I already have trouble seeing my "Johnson", my flotation vest will be floating by itself nearby.

[bigredonice]

dabluz, I appreciate you explaining your standpoint on driving over the tip-ups, my original reply back on page one was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, but reading over all your posts, I see where you are coming from.  Good Day.

[dabluz]

Brook trout fishing in my area opens on the last friday of April.  Usually, the ice is good enough for a week of icefishing.  Since we are only allowed one line, I use an ordinary rod and spinning reel.  However, this year I may use an ice fishing rod that I made from a rod I broke late last fall.  So far, it's the best ice fishing rod that I have ever had the chance to use.  Since the rod broke about half way between the joint and the handle, I had the whole tip to work with.  U just jammed the tip into the handle of the rod.  The rod is extremely light yet very fast action.  It was a great rod for walleye fishing.  I will probably use it for brook trout this year.

It's too stiff to make an automatic whip up but I doubt that such a rig will work well with the brook trout up here.  The brook trout bite too soft.  Often, it's just the added weight on the end of the rod that alerts me to the fact that a trout has my bait in his mouth.  Guys that set their rods on the ice or on their plastic pail catch far fewer fish because there is no movement of the bait.  The trout are in about 30 to 50 feet of water and I use one split shot about 24 inches above my bait.  The smallest split shot that I can find.  If the water was shallower, I would not even use a split shot.

The technique is to lower the bait right to the bottom and then very slowly raise it from bottom and back down again with a good pause between movements of the bait.  You have to set the hook fast because when the trout feel the least amount of resistance, they spit out the bait.  A softer rod would help me to feel the bite but the strike has to be quick and sharp.  Quite similar to walleye when they are biting very softly.

Yes, I can get good heavy strikes when using just a flutter spoon but the head of a night crawler on a small hook does produce more trout.  I do set my rod on the plastic pail but it doesn't stay their for long periods of time.  Too much movement seems to scare away the trout.  No movement doesn't attract the trout.  The larger trout seem to bite softer than the smaller trout.  I also fish in a local river just below a dam during the first week of the opener and here again, the brook trout are in very deep water and the bite is so subtle, most people don't realize that there is a fish on the end of their line.  While river fishing, I often have to rest my rod on the gunwale of my canoe in order to see the tip of the rod move when a trout is biting.  The minnows bite harder...lol.

[venom]

  That is a fact dabluz, Big trout even some of my biggest lakers hit my bait like a mouse just a very lite bump. It's more fun when you set the hook and your mouse turned into a hog of a fish. For the ice in the shallow water I have been useing a Jason Mitchell Meat stick it is nice it has a great back bone for setting and fghting and a noodle tip. The only down side that I have with that rod they break eazy "the tips" I have never broke them on a fish but when I am packing them away for the trip out.

[Sullymon]

I must say Dabluz you are a wealth of information ... as any grumpy old man should be.  As BigRedOnIce said previously I appreciated your explaining why you'd run over somebody's tipups ... I must admit I completely understand where you're coming from.

Some of the best ice fishing rods I've used are home made from broken rods ... especially a former Walleye rod with a very fast tip.  I would like to buy an Automatic fisherman and try it out ... then make my own modifications as I see fit and eventually (providing I like it) made my own similar "quick-set" rig.  At $35 bucks for just the unit without the rod ... they aren't cheap.  I would like to try them out for wallies, trout, and crappies. 

95% of the time I bring just my jigging rods, usually around 2-5 of them pre-rigged so I can take advantage of different actions/line/lures and make changes quickly ... but I only use one at a time.  I very rarely use tipups as I think they can be a hassle ... bait can be expensive and hard to find at times, the new bait regs are a pain, moving around is a pain, and you have to let the fish come to you.  I find a skilled angler with a jigging rod can be just as deadly if not more in the right hands.  That's why I thought the Automatic fisherman could be a great companion to have nearby instead of constantly baiting and checking tipups.  This way I don't lose my mobility and ability to run and gun to cover some water.  In my opinion, jigging requires a great deal of skill ... tipups do not.  Just my worthless 2 cents ...

Also I must agree ... the bigger the fish, the "lighter" the bite ... at least when I use finesse techniques.  Reaction baits like aggressively worked spoons and the like are the opposite for me (usually).

[dabluz]

So, from what I see, the fishing for trout is similar in your area too.  I would say that icefishing for brook trout is my favourite type of fishing.  It only lasts a week or 2 here close to home.  However, if I go up into the higher ground about 30 miles north of me, I can often fish through the ice until the end of May.  The problem however, is that it's a hassle.  I have to go very early in the morning and haul my snowmobile.  In the early morning, the crust on the snow is hard and I can ride anywhere I want. It gets real cold during the night in the mountains even though I'm at about 3000 feet altitude.  Also, there is a crust on the lakes.  By midday, it can get dangerous.  The slush on the lakes can get very deep and often there is no ice close to shore.  It's a question of gunning the motor and sliding over the open water to shore.  However, I do get to fish in lakes that are not approachable at any other time of the year and the fishing is fantastic.  I also end up going alone because not many people want to go with me except those without snowmobiles.  You should see my snowmobile when I take these trips.  I have an axe, a saw, a hand winch, rope, nails, wire, emergency stove and food, manual ice auger, snowshoes either tied to the snowmobile or stashed away in any space I can find on the machine.  I also bring along my GPS etc.

At this time of the year, the snow is very granular yet very deep.  I am careful when walking because the tiny spruce tree could actually be the top of a 30 foot spruce tree.  Since there are hollows under each branch of the tree, it's possible to suddenly find yourself under 10 feet of bean sized granular snow.  No way of getting out of that stuff.  You never step on a tiny spruce tree during the late winter in my area...lol.  But, I'm getting old for getting up at 1 a.m., heading out at 2 a.m. in order to ride in to the lakes on my snowmobile before 4 a.m. and then leaving the lake by 11 or 12 when it's 70 to 80 F and having to cut blow downs and winch my snowmobile through the bushes to get back to my vehicle.  It's something best done with 2 or more other snowmobilers.  It's also fun to be able to talk about the outing afterwards.  When you are alone, other people can't fully imagine what happened.  I don't think I will be going this spring....my old snowmobile needs repairs.  I have a 1988 Safari 503 long track.  No reverse, no electric start which makes it quite a bit lighter.  It has super wide plastic shoes under the skis in order to float better on the deep snow.  It's a rather narrow machine which is a disadvantage on a snowmobile trail but it does go better between the trees when off trail.

[venom]

 Dabluz, now we are talking fishing! Every trip I take out on the big pond and around the islands here I have the supplies with my gps is mounted right on my sled out chasing trout like a dog! All the adventure but a bit less snow than you. I only wish I the specks were like that here there is not many here on the south shore of Lake Superior. Most of our fish are native and naturally reproducing and unlike the other great lakes we have a much slower growth rate here so I am very selective about my harvest for a meal.

[Sullymon]

Anytime you want some company Dabluz you let me know ... I'm sure the long haul for me would be worth the adventure.  Gotta do stuff like that while I still can, at 37 I still have lots of good years ahead to fish ... as long as I'm fishing that's all I really ask for in life. 

[kiltman]

sorry 'bout that.
I stand corrected.

good luck in the late season

gd

[dabluz]

Dabluz, now we are talking fishing! Every trip I take out on the big pond and around the islands here I have the supplies with my gps is mounted right on my sled out chasing trout like a dog! All the adventure but a bit less snow than you. I only wish I the specks were like that here there is not many here on the south shore of Lake Superior. Most of our fish are native and naturally reproducing and unlike the other great lakes we have a much slower growth rate here so I am very selective about my harvest for a meal.

The brook trout in my area have a very slow growth rate too.  It's due to the fact that very few lakes have minnows....the trout have to eat insects.  Also, the growing season is short....the lakes are free of ice by mid June in the Monts Valin just north of Chicoutimi and freeze up again in October.  The last glaciers left this area about 10,000 years ago and since then, the brook trout have adapted to these conditions.  They are slimmer than trout that I have caught elsewhere and their skeletal structure is finer.  An average 3 year old brook trout in this territory is about 8 to 10 inches long....sometimes smaller in the lakes where there is a high number of trout.  There are 3 major head waters in this area.  Rather large lakes linked together...you could even say that it really one large lake.  They are considered to be the largest head water brook trout lakes in the world.  They are fed by rainfall on the tree covered mountains around them and the water seeps through the vegetation (deep moss and old spruce forest).  These 3 lakes are at about 3000 feet in elevation.  The water is tea stained.  There are even a few lakes with landlocked arctic char.  Some people call them red trout.  They are hard to differentiate from brook trout.  For some funny reason, there does not seem to be much inter breeding between the arctic char and the brook trout.  The arctic char rarely take a fly at the surface.  They are also quite small....rarely more than 12 inches long.  I pointed out the fact that there were landlocked arctic char to biologists about 25 years ago.

I got to fish many virgin lakes in this area by following the new roads that the lumber companies were making.  It doesn't take long to ruin a small virgin lake.  A handful of fishermen can ruin the structure of the population of fish in just a couple of outings.  They remove the oldest (also the largest) trout from the water and the gap that these trout have left is rapidly replaced by a larger number of medium sized trout.

There are some lakes that have no fish at all in them and never had any fish since the glaciers melted away.  Some of these lakes now contain brook trout that were captured in nearby streams and transferred to these virgin waters.  These new lakes usually offer fly fishing only.  The average size is about 1 lb.  I participated in the capture and transfer of the trout.  I could say that I instigated this program when I started working for the association that manages the territory.  Here in Quebec, we have controlled exploitation zones (ZECs) that were initiated in 1978.  Before that, these large areas were private clubs.  Private clubs were abolished in 1978 and the areas were given to hunting and fishing associations who managed these areas.....non-profit.  All the money taken in for fishing rights etc is put back into the ZEC.  It costs about 20 dollars per day to fish in a ZEC or about 120 dollars per year.  There is also a 7 dollars per vehicle fee for the cost of upkeep to the roads.  Each lake is monitored so that only about 50% of the population of the fish is captured and then the lake is closed until the following year.  Since there are no other species of fish, it was easy to determine that the average lake could support about 14 kilos of trout per hectare (100 meters by 100 meters).  Since the surface area in hectares can be calculated and the number of kilos of trout that can be in the lake, it was only a question of counting the fish that the fishermen catch and by weighing the catch, we can calculate the average size of the fish.  This way, it's possible to calculate the number of catchable fish in the body of water.  If over a few seasons of fishing, the average size of the trout decreases, this means that it is overfished.  Spot checks right on the lake are carried out every year to make sure that the average size of the fish does not change.  The fishing is as good as it was in 1978.  In some lakes, the fishing quality has been increased.  In the 1990's, a couple of tiny lakes were found to contain chub.  It was obvious that someone had smuggled minnows to these lakes.  Since the lakes were small, it was possible to poison them, let them rest a few years and re-introduce trout from nearby streams to these lakes.  Since then, there has been no evidence of chub in these lakes or other lakes nearby.  However, part of the territory has been invaded with suckers that look like were introduced during the 1940's or 50's.  Earthen dams were quickly built around these lakes in order to prevent the suckers from migrating to other lakes in the same water basin and the beaver activity is closly scrutinized in order to keep the water basins separated.  One summer, I spent time shooting beaver that had become too shy of live catch traps and even trappers.  It's quite an experience sitting immobile for hours beside a damaged beaver dam with millions of mosquitos and black flies swerling around you until a shy beaver gets close enough to get shot by a shotgun.  I was so immobile, I even had rabbits sit on my feet and a skunk catch a snooze between my legs.  Spruce grouse would come close enough that I could grab them.  Somehow, the smell of very strong fly repellant did not bother the wildlife.  My head was under a mosquito net.  Some of the beavers I shot were huge.  They were often old solitary males.  One weighed well over 60 lbs (our scale would not register higher than that) I had trouble getting him into the back of my pickup truck with the tail gate down.  The beavers were sent to colleges that teach conservation and biology.

At about this time, I was involved with hunting and fishing associations, I taught hunter safety, I became regional vice president of the Quebec Wildlife Federation, I co-founded an association for the protection and restauration of landlocked salmon in Lake St-Jean etc etc.  Anyway, I became quite a respected person with other associations, ZECs, outfitters, archers and the Quebec minister of natural resources.  I got to be among those who initiated new fish and game laws and means to finance projects to protect and re-establish fish and game in my area and even in other areas of Quebec.  It was a very interesting and hectic time in my life.  Now that I am retired, I may return to that game but there are lots of new guys with new ideas.

Sorry for being so long winded.