IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
Vermont => Ice Fishing Vermont => Topic started by: perch bait on Feb 10, 2018, 02:45 PM
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Here's what Vermont Fish and Wildlife posted on their Facebook page on Wednesday.
"Anglers may notice that fathead minnows are no longer available in bait shops around the state. Department staff recently responded to a report from a fisherman of an unusual fish in his bait bucket, and ended up citing Hog Island Wholesale for illegally importing non-native mosquitofish. The wholesaler was also required to destroy a large quantity of baitfish that were held on the facility because of the presence of mosquitofish in the tanks.
Bait shops and anglers are asked to inspect any commercially purchased fathead minnows and dispose of any mosquitofish that are found.
Mosquitofish been introduced outside their native range with negative effects on native fish and water quality. It is expected that Vermont’s cold water temperatures will prevent the mosquitofish from surviving and reproducing in Vermont, although they do survive as far north as New York City.
These steps were taken to protect the environment and maintain the excellent fishing we currently enjoy in Vermont. The state's fish importation and baitfish regulations are important tools in fighting the spread of invasive fish species and diseases."
Looks like there is going to be a shortage of perch bait this winter.
(https://s26.postimg.cc/gaveiqja1/Mosquitoe_fish.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Wonderful! Now the bait prices will go up even more.
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cant remember the last time i bought bait, is a thing of the past.
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So much for that expensive certified bait.
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guess thats what happens when the state creates a monopoly, glad i dont use alot of fat heads. The next bait fish public hearing should be interesting though ;D :tipup:
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Last year I bought a bunch of bait in St. Albans, and in my bucket of bait, I found 4 yellow perch fry, and what looked like a baby pike or pickerel.... also a couple of unidentified minnows (could have been these mosquito fish). I threw them all out on the ice, for fear of possesing them if I was checked by F&G.
But this solidifies my opinion of Vt'sBait regulation. Yeah, lets protect our lakes from a foreign baitfish disease, by having all of our bait imported from out of state. What a joke. It will only take one outbreak on one of these bait distributers to slip through the cracks. Its just not a robust system of defense.
If Vt is going to continue this regulation, they should require that the bait be grown, raised and kept within the state. Creates a whole new economic venue for the dying Vt agriculture lands.
Thanks for posting this Perchbait. Hope you and your Dad are having a great season.
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I plan on attending the Richmond session tomorrow, it will be interesting since this has become a forefront topic with the Hog island incident.
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It’s all jut a big joke. Good way to keep bait shops from sliding money under the table. I believe that was the only purpose of these laws. Now we have bait coming from Arkansas and wherever else. How is that safer than me taking bait fish from one lake in vermont to another and using it. Seems just as “risky”
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It’s all jut a big joke. Good way to keep bait shops from sliding money under the table. I believe that was the only purpose of these laws. Now we have bait coming from Arkansas and wherever else. How is that safer than me taking bait fish from one lake in vermont to another and using it. Seems just as “risky”
Even MORE risky. At least if you catch your own bait, you know they grew here and are most likely a native species. I agree that creating an industry for raising our own bait would be much safer then importing fish from Arkansas!
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Even MORE risky. At least if you catch your own bait, you know they grew here and are most likely a native species. I agree that creating an industry for raising our own bait would be much safer then importing fish from Arkansas!
That's exactly my complaint I plan to offer as a topic of discussion.
Why is it that I have a horse pond chock full of native minnows & crayfish, and I could traverse the land behind me (dicey to do without trespassing), and make it all the way to the lake to legally use those minnows as bait, but cannot jump in the car, drive to the same lake because it's illegal to transport over the road without a permit.
Makes no sense to keep saying the native baitfish "could" become infected because of birds etc...or a body of water in the state is not certified as safe, yet an out of state baitfish dealer is?
I know it would be expensive to certify local waters, but what's to say a local baitfish dealer wouldn't have best interest at heart in keeping their retention ponds clean...after all, word of mouth, social media will keep them from selling contaminated bait.
How can the state say the bait in my horse pond is potentially dangerous to the eco-system, even though the pond IS connected to Arrowhead, which IS connected to the Lamoille, which IS connected to Champlain...it's been this way for as long as I've been here, if the minnows in my little pond are infected (which they're not), then the damage would've been done decades ago and the state would've have proof of VHS or other diseases in those bodies of water long ago.
I'm certain I'm not the only person on land with a body of water connected to another body of water that holds baitfish...you trying to tell me that we're all damaging our eco-system just by allowing the waters to hold local native baitfish?!
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A lively discussion for sure, my fishing buddy worked for the state F&W for close to 30 years in fisheries. I've asked many of the thoughts expressed, why, why, etc. His simple common sense response is because the science suggests it is the safest way to protect the VT fisheries.
We can all disagree but lets not ruin our fisheries.
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I agree that creating an industry for raising our own bait would be much safer then importing fish from Arkansas!
I've brought this up before on this forum...locally raised bait fish....all I heard was silence. I brought up the topic of raising local bait with one of the trout growers in the state way before the current bait laws were enacted. He though about it but was more interested in raising trout.
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Some of you will probably call me a blind follower, but I'm a prime believer in science. I usually go to as many F&W meetings as I can, and it never fails, someone with anecdotal evidence will stand up and confidently tell the biologists they're wrong. Its possible they're wrong, but I'd rather put my faith in their science than the bucket biologist who's a carpenter/lawyer/proctologist/etc by training and experience.
If the biologists recommend to the F&W board that we need to buy bait from somewhere else to keep our fisheries safe, despite the fact that I know there's probably some compromises, I'll back them up....they know better than I do.
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Now here's a question for you........I have a bait box that I keep under the ice, perfectly legal. I buy bait for the year at the beginning of the season and keep it there all winter long. I bought a bunch of fatheads weeks ago from a certified bait dealer, not Hog Island, but they all come from the same place right?? Can a warden make me kill all of my bait? Am I taking a risk of contaminating an entire watershed? If I had the resources I would petition the state to start my own live bait company to supply Vermont.
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I don't know why the state chooses to put stringent restrictions on bait fish in hopes of protecting bodies of water from water borne diseases. It isn't the bait fish that carries the VHS disease, it is the water. You wouldn't be able to prove it, but more than likely the disease would get transported out of Champlain by someone's boat. Pretty sure milfoil and zebra mussels didn't get transported to so many bodies of water from someone's bait bucket.
Time and money would be better spent on educating boaters and fisherman about proper boat cleaning, boat draining, native bait trapping, and native bait use. Instead of passing more regulations limiting bait use/purchase, and then wonder why fishing and hunting dollars are down in the state.
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I do not understand the three day rule why would my certified bait become infected in my bait bucket.........in ny the give us 10 days so at least i can use them 2 weekend s
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This is only going to allow the state to tighten the restrictions on using bait in Vermont
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Time and money would be better spent on educating boaters and fisherman about proper boat cleaning, boat draining,
That has actually been addressed with new laws on page 14 of the 2018 VT Fishing Guide. For what it's worth there are numerous placards addressing invasive species at many of the F and W access areas(the ones with kiosks). I wonder how many folks actually read them.
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Great those are my go to bait for perching.
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Great those are my go to bait for perching.
My local bait store got some tiny golden shiners at perch bait replacement, about the size of pin head minnows. Priced the same as well.
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I think it's ridiculous that all of our minnows come from another state. How about if the state earmarked some of our license dollars towards a state run baitfish rearing station. We have a number of hatcheries throughout the state, lets dedicate one, or maybe half of one for keeping a baitfish supply for the licensed bait dealers. We already have the infrastructure for it so it wouldn't cost taxpayers a bunch of extra money. That way the state can monitor and test the fish to make sure they are safe to use in Vermont waters. It would also eliminate the cost and carbon footprint of importing bait from Arkansas. Makes perfect sense to me.
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It’s also entertaining that they say it can survive in New York City but not vermont because of the cold Hahaha. Likes it’s so much warmer in their water. Sounds an awful lot like those alewives that wouldn’t be able to survive or reproduce here. ???
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That has actually been addressed with new laws on page 14 of the 2018 VT Fishing Guide. For what it's worth there are numerous placards addressing invasive species at many of the F and W access areas(the ones with kiosks). I wonder how many folks actually read them.
To me this is a feeble, step above doing nothing attempt to address the issue. If invasive species and water borne diseases, are such a problem. Why aren't they more proactive in getting the information out? Maybe a little one on one interaction with boaters and anglers at boat launches, informing them of the problems and how they can do their part in preventing the spread of such things would help.
I have, but I can't recall seeing anyone takes the time to read the postings at the launch. Heck, I get the feeling a fair amount of people don't bother to read the law book in any REAL detail. Let alone the sections of it that aren't law,or carry monetary/point consequences. You see a lot of regulation questions being asked on forums. When, if you read the regulations close enough, the answer is generally there in black and white. Or if is gray, don't get clarification until after an in the field encounter with a warden.
I was in Pittsburg, NH over the summer and had an older gentleman approach my father and I when launching our boat, informing us about such issues regarding invasives and recent regulation changes regarding the spread of invasives in NH. He was not a biologist or warden either. Other states do it why can't Vermont? (Rhetorical question)
I know I may sound like a curmudgeon, but I am just getting sick of having things banned or taken away. Instead of taking another approach to address certain issues, which would help maintain/promote participation in such activities.
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My local bait store got some tiny golden shiners at perch bait replacement, about the size of pin head minnows. Priced the same as well.
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My local bait store got some tiny golden shiners at perch bait replacement, about the size of pin head minnows. Priced the same as well.
Oh nice hopefully my locale bait shop did the same thing. Thanks for the info.
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I went to the meeting last night in Richmond. Informative & productive meeting. Was a decent turnout, but not a packed house...
They're listening folks, they are!
Sounds like this spring some modifying & relaxing of current rules are forthcoming.
Also, FYI, Hog Island is the ONLY wholesaler in the entire state, and if they go out of business, which could happen due to the 5 point fine (if they get another 5, they're done based on current rules), then the entire state has NO wholesaler to transfer to distributors like bait & tackle shops, not only VT, but ENTIRE NORTHEAST!!!
Was a hot topic to look into modifying those fines/points, because they were intended for end users, not wholesalers/distributors...so if they go down the entire fishing industry not only statewide but the region takes a huge hit...now imagine that for a moment!!!
Other things discussed were what the complaints were since 2008, and what could be done to fix things.
Discussions about down-flow watershed unrestricted use of purchased or locally trapped for personal use bait, watershed education/transport, having inspector at the wholesaler to check incoming shipments etc...
The state has skin in this, as they certified the bait shipped to Hog Island back in December, from Arkansas, so it's not just the fault of the wholesaler that received the mosquitofish.
Not only that, but McCallie's ships bait to all 50 states, and even if VT are able to trap wild bait or farm raise them (which is expensive in cold climate like VT), the demand far outweighs what could be produced locally, therefore out of state bait importation has and will continue to happen, but better safeguard measures need to be implemented to assure the bait is certified clean.
I posted the discussion outline on all the FB fishing forums last night, I suggest you read them as they do account for what we've all been saying for these last 10 years.
As for myself, I usually don't get involved and just sit back and b***h about things, but last night I got involved and glad I did...I highly recommend everyone else do the same.
They're listening folks, and want to retcify things...take advantage of this!
Better to have them actually taking input before implementing changes, rather than afterwards like they did with deer!
~Mudchuck
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there are people at some of the launches checking for weeds randomly in Vermont. I have been inspected/educated...at two lakes so far. they sit by the launch then look to see if you have weeds going in or on trailer when pulling out. Not a big deal, but there only there randomly...so how effective is that really going to be.....I always pull off the weeds anyway, keeps water on the trailer frame who needs that.....;-)
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Thanks for the update Mudchuck, I greatly appreciate reading it. Glad some people did make the meeting. :-) Your right about hog island, its where most of our NY bait comes from too.....
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there are people at some of the launches checking for weeds randomly in Vermont. I have been inspected/educated...at two lakes so far. they sit by the launch then look to see if you have weeds going in or on trailer when pulling out. Not a big deal, but there only there randomly...so how effective is that really going to be.....I always pull off the weeds anyway, keeps water on the trailer frame who needs that.....;-)
Those are volunteer Public Access Greeters. That's why they are there only some of the time. Education is more the name of the game there, not really on the spot prevention. I'm sure almost everyone has seen a greeter at a launch, and I guess that means their strategy is working. The more people know about aquatic invasive species, the better.
http://dec.vermont.gov/watershed/lakes-ponds/aquatic-invasives/spread-prevention/greeters (http://dec.vermont.gov/watershed/lakes-ponds/aquatic-invasives/spread-prevention/greeters)
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Mudchuck, Thanks for the update on the meeting! Great to know.
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Yup, thanks for the update, Mudchuck! Glad to hear that the state is listening and considering the options.
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Thanks for attending the meeting Mudchuck and giving us the update. What would happen to all the bait shops that are reliant on Hog Island Wholesale if they were to go out of business? There must be some other way to ensure that the bait being distributed by them meets all the states requirements rather than just shutting them down. Hopefully the distributor in Arkansas can get their act together and prevent this from happening again.
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Mudchuck, Thanks for attending and sharing the info. I hope some young fellows start up a bait enterprise that can be a model for the rest of the country.
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Good to know. Hog island could use some competition...they wholesale to a lot of the shops down here in CT as well.
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For what it's worth here is a link to the Arkansas bait industry,http://safebaitfish.org/ (http://safebaitfish.org/)
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The reality is the state needs to have a smelt hatchery and start providing good bait to people. They do it in Maine and sell them in New Hampshire. Currently our state stocks fish in lakes but provides no food for them. It is a failing system that is putting pressure on bait fish within the lakes. As far as I’ve been able to tell from talking with some high up people is that F@W doesn’t have a good relationship with the VT DEC(department of environmental conservation) and don’t coordinate on what really needs to happen. You can’t keep stocking trout with out putting bait into the lakes and ponds. I’m thinking they need to start putting smelt into the lakes and then we can start having a good population of health fish in our lakes and ponds. With the addition of bait fish the other fish will in turn be able to have a thriving population. I most definitely plan on being at the next meeting in the NEK and recommend that you go if you care about the VT fisheries.
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The reality is the state needs to have a smelt hatchery and start providing good bait to people. They do it in Maine and sell them in New Hampshire. Currently our state stocks fish in lakes but provides no food for them. It is a failing system that is putting pressure on bait fish within the lakes. As far as I’ve been able to tell from talking with some high up people is that F@W doesn’t have a good relationship with the VT DEC(department of environmental conservation) and don’t coordinate on what really needs to happen. You can’t keep stocking trout with out putting bait into the lakes and ponds. I’m thinking they need to start putting smelt into the lakes and then we can start having a good population of health fish in our lakes and ponds. With the addition of bait fish the other fish will in turn be able to have a thriving population. I most definitely plan on being at the next meeting in the NEK and recommend that you go if you care about the VT fisheries.
This is a great idea and easy to setup since the hatcheries could be configured for smelt, just don’t know about the metrics involved in getting smelt to a size ideal for release into the wild.
My guess is this should be applied to Champlain initially since there are plenty of food smelt populations on several inland waters that seem to be self sustaining.
Wouldn’t be a stretch to do this with suckers too, but growth rate might be hard to achieve without warm water which would be expensive in our cold climate.