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Wyoming => Ice Fishing Wyoming => Topic started by: Wyoming_Ice on Feb 27, 2015, 07:53 PM
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I asked this question a couple of weeks ago on the ask the Game and Fish thread, as of yet, I haven't seen a response.
So I am going to post a couple of photos of a 20" plus rainbow that was take from Viva Naughton a week before the derby. I have more pictures of different fish as well.
I hope that by posting these pictures people will quit Dumping Corn down their holes. It's Killing Our (Your)Fish !!!
I realize this is all in vain probably, but I hope that We As Sportsmen will try to do something about this.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg15/WyomingIce/Mobile%20Uploads/mms_img1444030058.jpg)
This fish was plugged up tight right at it's rear end.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg15/WyomingIce/Mobile%20Uploads/mms_img-1833908876.jpg)
This is it's stomachs contents.
A very sad deal in my opinion.
Please respond if anyone else has caught any fish since the " New Law " has taken effect. :tipup:
Thank You,
Wyo Ice
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Thanks WY Ice, I feel the new law is a step backwards. I did catch a cutthroat at Upper Sunshine a few weeks ago that had two corn kernels in its stomach. Not sure if some are chumming with corn or using it as bait. IMO, there are just so many effective methods for fishermen to catch trout, other than using corn. All my best.
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No. It doesn't, can't kill fish. They don't digest it very well, but it doesn't kill them.
I still glad that it is still illegal to use in Utah though.
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First,I have limited knowledge to say if corn kills fish or not.I will say,I'm betting nobody can say for sure that it does or doesn't actually kill any fish.I myself do not use corn,but I have caught many over the years that have had many things in their stomachs.I have found rocks,sticks,assorted artificials,hooks,line,marbles....sadly no money.
I do know that corn is not digested,so perhaps it does kill them,but for myself,I need scientific evidence.Remember,what is outlawed today gives ammo for more to be outlawed tomorrow.Nothing wrong with being passsionet for a cause,but please be sure it's a proven fact,just to be safe.
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That is the purpose of this post.
I asked if trout can digest corn in my original post to ask Wyoming Game and Fish thread. I am not a biologist. But I do have some common sense. I believe what I am seeing with my own eyes. These fish are gorging themselves on this "bait"and I believe that some of these are dieing.
No offense Fishrmn, are you a fishery biologist in Utah? :tipup:
Wyo Ice
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Did you catch the fish or did it just appear in the hole you were fishing in?
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Corn is horribly deadly. Especially when it is on a plate of rice with some smoked trout. :D
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yes, corn is not digestible to fish and does cause death in some cases. but this is all told to a group of people (sorry, not trying to mean EVERYONE) that would spray spoons with wd-40, leave trash on the ice, abandon fish they dont want to clean, and introduce unwanted fish into water systems. some people really dont benefit, the community much- or even at all.
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There have been studies done in a fish hatchery where rainbow trout were fed corn at a range of water temperatures. At the higher water temperatures (I believe around 60-65F) the fish were able to pass the corn fairly well and there were no adverse effects (no mortalities higher than fish fed pellets normally fed to hatchery trout). This was the case as water temperatures were lowered, however at lower temperatures it took longer for the corn to pass through the digestive system of the fish.
When water temperatures in the study were reduced to the 30's F it did take a long time for the fish to pass the corn, but that is the case with all foods fish eat in cold water temperatures.
Corn is cellulose which is difficult for animals to digest. We have all seen that when we eat corn ourselves or been in a livestock pen where the animals were able to eat whole corn. That is the reason corn is "cracked" or ground prior to being fed to livestock - it makes it more digestible.
Trout have a short digestive system that is designed for proteins, so while they can not digest corn they can pass it on through their digestive system. Trout eat snails and caddis cases made of small stones and they surely can't digest those things, but they do pass them through their digestive systems and continue to eat more of them.
ClearCreek
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Ask someone who works in a wastewater plant for any city, corn is one of our foods that look like you swallowed it whole, a friend of mine works for such plant!! Just FYI
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Thanks for the responses, Pro or Con.
This is the second fish in less than a month,that mine friends and I have "caught" through the ice with split open intestines. And no, they are not getting nicked while the gutting process. So, is this something that the fish will recover from during the slowed process of passing the corn?
And my last question is, why did we make this change in our regulations to allow the use of corn. What are we gaining or why was banned 30 or 40 years ago in Wyoming and now allowed again. :tipup:
Thanks Again,
Wyo Ice
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this is kind of interesting-----more people weigh in----keep it going----i also dont like corn in the water but i am in ny---i think it is legal here---but we are lucky--not many people use corn
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When i first saw the change to the regs on the Game and Fish web sight i was kind of shocked. I figured if I ate cream style corn and it comes out hole. How could a fish digest it? :blink: hopefully with meetings around the state we can voice our opinion and get things going in the right direction. There was a reason my dad was a game warden for the state for 27 year. The joke always was they couldn't ever catch him so they had to higher him. Last warden in the state as far as i know that was hired with out a college education. I remember him talking about corn and how it was not good for the fish.
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This is an interesting thread. I am in NY and some folks here use rice and/or small noodle type products to chum with. Are these digestible by fish?
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http://fishandboat.com/images/pages/qa/fish_regs/corn_chum.htm (http://fishandboat.com/images/pages/qa/fish_regs/corn_chum.htm)
You're welcome to search for more, but this is the study that most people quote.
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Fishrmn, I appreciate that article. It really makes a lot of sense to me.
I guess the take away from the article is, corn really isn't a good food for trout. I would hope that we all can agree on that.
I really wish they would do a study, and maybe someone has, allowing the fish to gorge themselves, as what is happening in the real environment. And the cold water thing that Clear Creek suggested makes a lot of sense to me as well. :tipup:
Wyo Ice
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REAL FISHERMEN DONT NEED CORN.
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REAL FISHERMEN DONT NEED CORN.
This thread does have interesting commentary going between good regs with solid points of view from multiple sides. What it doesn't need is inflammatory comments to solely stir things up. Let's keep it civil and add something with substance without bomb throwing in CAPS. Thanks.
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I was around when Utah allowed corn as bait and as chum. I've been ridiculed for describing things that I witnessed with my own eyes or in one instance second hand. The second hand incident was when I was in a boat with my dad and my uncle. We were at Strawberry Reservoir and were chumming with corn. My cousin and his friend were scuba diving that day. They snuck up to our anchors, picked them up, and moved the boat with the three of us in it. My uncle nearly freaked out. When his son and his friend surfaced they said "You can quit chumming. There is corn this deep (pointing from his fingertip to his wrist) everywhere." I took it to mean everywhere that people usually fished, not the ENTIRE reservoir. It was customary for EVERY store in the state to put corn on sale the week before the opening day of fishing season. And most of the people fishing there would throw several cans of corn out during the course of a day. Many built slingshots with huge pouches to fling corn far and wide. There was never any indication that the fish were suffering any ill effects from that much corn being deposited in the water. This was considered the "heyday" for Strawberry. It was common to catch 5 or 6 pound rainbow trout every trip. One six fish limit that I caught weighed over 36 pounds. I caught many fish that were stuffed with corn, and never worried about it killing them. However ....
A few years later we experienced a prolonged drought. I drove up to Strawberry and was immediately aware of the awful smell of rotting corn. It smelled like I would expect sour mash or corn liquor to smell. There were pockets of corn that were where depressions in the bottom, or between clumps of weeds or brush kept it from drifting around. This was early in the season and it was too shallow for anyone to have been realistically fishing the area recently. My impression was that the corn had sat there all winter and spring rotting. The UDWR changed the rule either the next year or the year after that. Their explanation (which I can never seem to find evidence or proof of) was that it was a water quality issue not a fish health issue. The corn, the waste products from cattle, and the human waste from open pit outhouses caused horrible algae blooms each summer. The cabins were destroyed or moved and the outhouse pits buried. The number of cattle has been reduced, and they are not supposed to be able to access most of the stream sides. There is no corn allowed to even be in your possession while fishing in Utah. But it isn't because it harms the fish.
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Don't really see it being much of a problem if people use it as bait.... but seems like when people use corn for bait they chum it too. They legalized using corn for bait but it is still illegal to chum it. Clearly people were chumming corn in those pictures... no way you'd lose that many kernels fishing corn for bait. Someone dumped a few cans down the hole.
Seems to me like there are dozens of better options for catching trout than using corn... I've never used it and never will.
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Thanks for the responses, Pro or Con.
This is the second fish in less than a month,that mine friends and I have "caught" through the ice with split open intestines. And no, they are not getting nicked while the gutting process. So, is this something that the fish will recover from during the slowed process of passing the corn?
And my last question is, why did we make this change in our regulations to allow the use of corn. What are we gaining or why was banned 30 or 40 years ago in Wyoming and now allowed again. :tipup:
Thanks Again,
Wyo Ice
Would think if a fish ate to the point it's internal organs split they sure wouldn't be feeling well enough to eat whatever you had on your hook.
Fish eat all kinds of stuff they can't digest and they pass it just fine. In my opinion corn causes no adverse health effects on fish. As far as it being nesassarily healthy for them. . . Maybe not, but if we banned everything that wasn't good for fish then we'ld have nothing left to fish with. . . Hooks, fishing line, lead jigs, plastics, etc. if humans quit eating all the stuff we were told wasn't good for us we'ld probably starve.
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just my take on it. respect the fish and their environment
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Okay...
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Never caught a walleye on corn. ;D
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;) Completely agree with Gem City! Chumming is illegal! As for NEVER using it that is a personal choice. I think one of the wonderful things this forum does is enable us to share our personal choices and share the impacts of the choices. Now, how do I get these damn pellets to stay on the hook? ;D ???
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That is the purpose of this post.
I asked if trout can digest corn in my original post to ask Wyoming Game and Fish thread. I am not a biologist. But I do have some common sense. I believe what I am seeing with my own eyes. These fish are gorging themselves on this "bait"and I believe that some of these are dieing.
No offense Fishrmn, are you a fishery biologist in Utah? :tipup:
Wyo Ice
you are correct , partially, in that the trout can and will gorge themselves ( some species) until they die.
the corn is not killing the trout, their gorging is killing them
rainbows will also do this in the hatchery if left with a self feeder, they will eat until they die. Brook trout and browns do not have this behavior in the hatchery.
so, will corn kill a trout? Some trout, if there is enough of it there, yes.
does corn itself kill trout? No , it does not.
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Ask your kids if you feed your fish all they want what happens?
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I saw a laker, that a friend caught, thru the ice, that was completely full of cigarette filters. That fish had a nicotine habit.
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Gold fish flakes you might have been able to walk on!
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you know when you think about it like this, they eat pine cones, and rocks, and bottle caps, and hunks of rubber and metal with hooks in them.... :P
they really are pretty dumb....so, my thought now is,
if I caught the dumbest creature there is, .... ::)
why am I holding it up proudly and screaming Take My Picture like I accomplished something hard?? ??? ???
Its really right up there with getting photos and trophies for Shrimp Peeling and Tree Hunting...
heck, now I'm depressed....
Even Underwater Basket Weaving would be harder than making a fish eat something....
dang....anyone want some fishing gear?
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rainbows will also do this in the hatchery if left with a self feeder, they will eat until they die. Brook trout and browns do not have this behavior in the hatchery.
Actually almost all fish eat until they die. For some , it may take 5, 10 or 20 years but they will eat until they die; either of old age or until they are caught and kept!!
ClearCreek
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;) Completely agree with Gem City! Chumming is illegal! As for NEVER using it that is a personal choice. I think one of the wonderful things this forum does is enable us to share our personal choices and share the impacts of the choices. Now, how do I get these damn pellets to stay on the hook? ;D ???
Maybe I am blind, but I do not see anything in the regs about chum?
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Maybe I am blind, but I do not see anything in the regs about chum?
I'll eat crow on that one. I just looked it up and chumming appears to be legal. But the law is not crystal clear in my opinion. 1) the regulations guidebook does not even mention the word "chum". 2) I found two separate Frequently Asked Question (FAQ) sections on the game and fish website --> one of which says chumming is legal. The other provides a bit of a caveat to that... you cannot chum on waters where artificial flies and lures only is the rule. I'm attaching the link below:
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/news-1000779.aspx (https://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/news-1000779.aspx)
Does anybody know if this was changed recently? I swear I seem to remember it being illegal 5-6 years ago... but just goes to show it is always a good idea to refresh yourself with the regs each year.
That will certainly change the way I fish for a few species....mainly channel cats. Dicing up a few suckers or carp and chumming an area can really get them going.
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https://wgfd.wyo.gov/wtest/wgfd-1000462.aspx (https://wgfd.wyo.gov/wtest/wgfd-1000462.aspx) Here is the link to the FAQ that says chumming is legal. (but does not mention the rule against using it on artificials only bodies of water.
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you know when you think about it like this, they eat pine cones, and rocks, and bottle caps, and hunks of rubber and metal with hooks in them.... :P
they really are pretty dumb....so, my thought now is,
if I caught the dumbest creature there is, .... ::)
why am I holding it up proudly and screaming Take My Picture like I accomplished something hard?? ??? ???
Its really right up there with getting photos and trophies for Shrimp Peeling and Tree Hunting...
heck, now I'm depressed.... Take pride in the fact that you are smart enough to find them...that's the puzzle to solve and if they're hungry,bit on!!!! ;D
Even Underwater Basket Weaving would be harder than making a fish eat something....
dang....anyone want some fishing gear?