Author Topic: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?  (Read 919 times)

Offline Sharkbait22

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Anyone have real-life experience with any of the multi element transducers. Watched a few videos and it seems the lower frequency old school panoptix has better deep water performance. However it still seems difficult to see smaller lures in deep water, so having fun watching trout react and chase lures isn't possible until in range. The PS30 looks pretty amazing but not sure if it can be adapted to ice fishing, particularly down view mode.

The higher frequency Livescope seems limited to water less then 60ft give or take 10ft. It really shines in less then 30ft.

Given the depth of lakers and that they always are on the move I can't see using the side view (searching mode) much with any transducer model. I tend to move to high percentage spots.

Any thoughts from the laker chaser crowd appreciated.

Offline SLAYERFISH

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #1 on: Nov 20, 2021, 10:38 AM »
Don't even need a fish finder for little lakers.
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Offline Sharkbait22

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #2 on: Nov 21, 2021, 06:10 AM »
Why's that? When is sonar needed then? Thx

Offline sra61

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #3 on: Nov 22, 2021, 04:28 PM »
PS30 is absolutely AWESOME in deeper water for lakers. We used it in 80-140 fow this summer. With 4 guys in the boat we could tell whose jig was whose and could tell when fish were chasing which jig. It was the most fun I've had in a long time. Even a guy that has a really hard time catching anything was able in just a short time to catch on and had three fish 30-34" in a couple of hours! I believe it would be pretty easy to rig up the PS30 to fish through the ice. We have also used the Livescope in water up to 80" deep for lakers and Whitefish, but were never really trying to see a jig in front of a specific fish I used it mainly to stay in the fish and always caught plenty with the knowledge that we were on em. I'm going to really make an effort to go after those lakers this winter and try the Livescope in that 40-80 fow where they are most likely going to be through the ice.   


Offline Sharkbait22

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #4 on: Nov 23, 2021, 07:31 AM »
Thanks for the feedback sra61. I'll keep an eye out for a used PS30 or maybe Garmin will develop a deep water version of Livescope.  I'm not sure if that is technically possible unless maybe they crank up the power a lot. Both setups are the same price. I've used the LVS32 Simcoe (deep and clear water) and it worked well in less than 50 fow, tried in 60 fow a few times but it was frustrating to see the lure and sometime the fish.  I think many people think that Livescope is an advancement (better tech), it is but it depends on the application.

PS30 Transducer no GLS10 black box needed
FREQUENCY               417 kHz
POWER                   144 W
BEAMWIDTH           120x90 really wide
MAXIMUM DEPTH   300 ft.

LVS32 Transducer
FREQUENCY         530 - 1,100 kHz almost CHIRP like given the range?
POWER                 500 W
BEAMWIDTH         135x20
MAXIMUM DEPTH     200 ft.

Here is a link for anyone interested in basic sonar physics https://www.awe.gov.au/environment/marine/marine-species/cetaceans/sonar-seismic-impacts 

Output frequency

Active sonars use a range of frequencies depending upon the role of the equipment. Lower frequencies (below 20 kHz) have potentially greater ranges in seawater due to lower rates of sound attenuation with distance. Detection of distant objects therefore relies on the use of lower frequencies, the lower the better, however, lower frequencies are not suitable for detection of small objects.

High to very high frequencies (above 100 kHz) provide excellent resolution of objects such as fish, small objects, and the sea floor but suffer from severe attenuation with distance from the source. These systems are only practical in shallow water or for short range detection of objects near the source.

Output power

The output power of active sonar is dependent on the designed purpose of the system. If the system is required to detect objects or the sea floor at great distances then high power transmissions will be required. This is because only a small amount of the output power may be expected to be reflected back to the detector from an object distant from the source. High power sonars include military antisubmarine sonars, commercial sidescan sonars, deep water echo sounders and fish finders. Lower output powers are used for sonars designed to detect objects in shallow water or close to the source.

Offline UnderTheIce

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #5 on: Nov 23, 2021, 08:06 AM »
I have a body of water that reaches 200 fow, this lake does have current at times.  I primarily fish this lake for Lakers.  I have livescope aswell and used every outing.  I cant tell you how many times I wish I would had brought my old flasher with me when my group suddenly decides they wanna go to the 100+ fow.  I do have the traditional ice ducer for the garmin headunit aswell, but the lag is so bad in deep water compared to a vexilar or marcum.  I tried playing around with the different frequencies and a scope, but to no avail on lag. 

70fow is tolerable to see jig and fish all the way down at bottom.  If you only want to track fish and not your lure at same time, either unit (panoptix or livescope) will do fine.  I can still see fish at 150 fow at bottom moving, but your lure may disappear at around 70-80 depend on what lure you use.  This is just from my experience.  If I am using livescope, I expect to see my jig and fish at same time and the interaction.  Otherwise, it just takes the whole experience out of it.

Offline sra61

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #6 on: Nov 23, 2021, 05:10 PM »
Thanks for the feedback sra61. I'll keep an eye out for a used PS30 or maybe Garmin will develop a deep water version of Livescope.
I actually bought my PS30 used on Ebay. I think I paid $600. Kind of risky I guess, but it works like a dream. I have it mounted on my transom, I may look, I might be able to just buy an extra bracket and figure out a mount for ice.

Offline Sharkbait22

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #7 on: Nov 23, 2021, 08:50 PM »
I think the bracket for the PS31 fits the 30 if you are looking for more options. Best of luck and I'd be interested in the results.

Offline Skywagon

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #8 on: Nov 24, 2021, 05:46 AM »
I will echo what UnderTheIce said, with Livescope it gets real tough to see a jig much deeper than 60', anything deeper than that, it is all about spotting fish.

Offline sra61

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #9 on: Nov 30, 2021, 11:18 AM »
I have a body of water that reaches 200 fow, this lake does have current at times.  I primarily fish this lake for Lakers.  I have livescope aswell and used every outing.  I cant tell you how many times I wish I would had brought my old flasher with me when my group suddenly decides they wanna go to the 100+ fow.  I do have the traditional ice ducer for the garmin headunit aswell, but the lag is so bad in deep water compared to a vexilar or marcum.  I tried playing around with the different frequencies and a scope, but to no avail on lag. 

70fow is tolerable to see jig and fish all the way down at bottom.  If you only want to track fish and not your lure at same time, either unit (panoptix or livescope) will do fine.  I can still see fish at 150 fow at bottom moving, but your lure may disappear at around 70-80 depend on what lure you use.  This is just from my experience.  If I am using livescope, I expect to see my jig and fish at same time and the interaction.  Otherwise, it just takes the whole experience out of it.
That was the amazing thing about the PS30. I think the deepest we fished it was about 140, but even that deep we were still able to see jigs in the front and back of the boat, probably 15' away at least. The beauty of that transducer is the ability to change the angle fore and aft right on the head unit. I would change the angle so that I could just make my jig out in the front, but they could see theirs good in the back. I had a 2d ducer on my TM up front that I could see good too. There was really no lag that I noticed. When those fish started chasing you could tell whose jig they were after and just start reeling up, and BOOM! They were on! I had that PS30 on my boat for a year before we really started messing with it! I bought a PS31 bracket a while back if I can find it, I may just set it up. No black box required with it, and if I'm using my 126 Ultra head, it has two ethernet ports, so I could use both the PS30, and Livescope on the same head to compare.

Offline sra61

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #10 on: Dec 01, 2021, 12:42 PM »
OK, PS 30 is all rigged up on my Summit pole and ready to go to work on lakers if we ever get enough ice on the laker water. I Put it on my PS31 bracket that I had bought last year, so it will display like Livescope. 120 front to back and 90 across I believe. I used my Summit Fishing pole, so I just have to take one pin out to put the Livescope Transducer back on.


Offline FishingCowboy

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #11 on: Dec 01, 2021, 02:13 PM »
sra61 - can't wait to see that in action...... ;D
Rounding them up for the corral.....

Offline hays47

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #12 on: Dec 01, 2021, 05:15 PM »
Just a little info on the Livescope and the original Panoptix. The displays are pretty much equal EXCEPT the size of the signal. The original Panoptix exaggerates the size of fish being displayed while the Livescope display is closer to actual dimensions.

I tried the Livescope for one year and regretted selling my PS22 immediately. My 74 year old vision has a lot to do with it. As the fish are much easier to see on the older technology. Factor in that I use both the PS 30 and PS 31 for open water fishing. So that is what I am most used to seeing. The other thing that I disliked about the Livescope was the need to constantly fiddle with it. Not a problem if sit in one spot all day. Which I almost never do. Another dislike is that
box that needs to be lugged around to use livescope.

If I cannot find a PS 22 am going to rig my PS 31 for ice fishing this year. I prefer the 22 because with physical postion it will read either to the side and forward or use as a down.
Echomap 94  Chirp with panoptix ps-22.
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Offline sra61

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #13 on: Jan 19, 2022, 12:20 PM »
Ok, I know this post is old, but I had a chance last weekend to test the PS30 against the Livescope in depths from 40-80' for Lakers. The Livescope was ok out to about 50', but then it got hard to see my jig all of the time. The PS30 was WAY better in deeper water! The marks were way more strong, and you could see the fish chase all the way from 80' to 10' below the ice without losing sight of my jig. The PS30 is all I'm using for lakers through the ice from now on. Another thing I noticed was it seemed like the PS30 used a lot less power. I was fishing 12 hours/day and when we would get back at night the 30 Ah battery only took about an hour to charge. I never saw my power go below 12.8 Volts. In 80' of water I could see 40' either side on the transducer which meant I could see other guys jigs as well if they were within range. I'm setting up my other 93 SV on it's own shuttle to run just the PS30 in the winter. I used it as well jigging in shallow water around 16', and it worked equally well. The marks are really big, but for older eyes that's not too bad of a deal anyway!
 




Offline lowaccord66

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #14 on: Jan 19, 2022, 04:47 PM »
I have both the lvs32 and PS30 and after tweaking I prefer the lvs32 in 100 or less.  The PS30 is ok past 100 but not ideal. 

Offline Sharkbait22

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #15 on: Jan 19, 2022, 05:37 PM »
Thanks for the real world experience sra61. This is great to know. Hopefully I can find a ps30 cheap. It would be great for the boat and ice fishing. I'm sure the power consumption is much less with the ps30 144 vs 500 watts and the black box isn't needed. I find it's hard seeing small lures e.g 1inch at 50 fow with livescope.  Maybe I can see a big bondi bait at 100 fow but that won't catch my small lakers.

Offline lowaccord66

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #16 on: Jan 19, 2022, 06:59 PM »
Make sure your color gain is up towards the max it helps a lot.  I was jigging 5/8oz in 75 fow with no issues not long ago.

Offline sra61

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Re: Best Panoptix transducer for 3-5 lb lake trout in 60+ fow?
« Reply #17 on: Jan 19, 2022, 10:59 PM »
I used a #7 Rippin Rap quite a bit and had no problem seeing it at 80!

 



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