Icegator Annihilator troubleshooting

[firwave]

Hi Guys,

I have a 2 year old Icegator Annihilator 42V that I went to use and not working. I took battery cover off and insulation very wet. Wire caps wet so I stripped and rewired them and still no go. Took battery plastic wrap off and there is some condensation and moisture but doesn't look awful. Electrician friend tested battery and reading wacky. At the wire nuts 18-20V but wired together and at the connector outside the battery cover ~38V. Does this sound like a dead battery? How can I check to see if the motor component is dead? Is there a way to hook the motor component to a power source other than the Li-ion battery? I am just trying to isolate what is going on with this auger.

Thanks!

[lunkerslayer]

You can wire 2 regular 12 volt batteries in series to find out if you have power. Also get a electric meter to check for open or closed circuit paths. First you need a differnt power source that you can trust. Then check to make sure that each switch is allowing current to get through to the motor.. Once you have found if current is passing through each switch then it's on to the motor. Motor is pretty stra8ght forward though if it doesn't smell like burnt plastic or wire smell then it's either your power source or bad switch.
If your battery is bad go with two 12 volt 10 amp lithium batteries and wire in series they will work just not as long as with a bigger battery.

[firwave]

Thanks lunkerslayer. Unfortunately I know nothing of electrical so let me ask some questions. Are the switches inside motor? Inside black cylindrical part? I have not pulled that part off.

[lunkerslayer]

The wires that lead to the two buttons on the handle that say forward F and reverse R. Did you find a differnt source of power that is the first thing to-do
This shows the bottom as to where the wires that come into the switches
The second pic is for reference to the first

[firwave]

I have one battery from my lawnmower & going to borrow one from my Mom’s. I need to go to HD & get wire, which I am clueless about. Slow process between kids, holidays, & of course ice fishing. I’m hand augering currently which is fine on our 3-4” ice.

[lunkerslayer]

Remember if you are not sure of the suggestions I gave you Google it

[firwave]

My plan: hook jumper (larger gauge than wire to motor) between pos on one battery & neg on the other. Then put a clip or ring on the wire with Icegator connector (seen at left in photo). Then clip red to red on outer terminal of one battery and black to black on outer edge of other battery. Then push F button. Sound ok?

[Ice Scratcher]

My plan: hook jumper (larger gauge than wire to motor) between pos on one battery & neg on the other. Then put a clip or ring on the wire with Icegator connector (seen at left in photo). Then clip red to red on outer terminal of one battery and black to black on outer edge of other battery. Then push F button. Sound ok?

Take the bit off first...
For 24v yes... Just hold the wire there and hit go..

Good luck!

<°)))>{

[lunkerslayer]

Let er buck hoss

[firwave]

Ok so I have forward and reverse. So...it’s the battery. Is that battery labeled correctly? 20v 4400mAh? 20v or 42v? There’s 10 soft packs in that battery pack. Just trying to figure out how to get another one & cost.  Thanks.

[Ice Scratcher]

Ok so I have forward and reverse. So...it’s the battery. Is that battery labeled correctly? 20v 4400mAh? 20v or 42v? There’s 10 soft packs in that battery pack. Just trying to figure out how to get another one & cost.  Thanks.

Dig 24v sound like it used to, with a good battery?

<°)))>{

[firwave]

I just made it go. I would have to secure the wires better from the auger to the battery as it’s sparking just touching the wires to batteries.

[mvanhank222]

I don’t know if this helps but I am assuming the auger batteries are built very similar to power tool batteries so I am thinking there are several smaller batteries wired in parallel and series.

[firwave]

Here’s photos of the battery and label before taking it apart. I believe these are 3.7v batteries wired together to make 37v not 20v. From other posts I’ve learned that the label was in order to meets international shipping watt limits. So I guess the question is how many volts & amps do I need to run this auger?

[mvanhank222]

I don’t quite understand how 2 12v batteries in series are turning a 42v auger

[mvanhank222]

Regardless you should be able to count the battery packs and look on the sides of them they should have a he voltage and amp hours printed on the side

[Ice Scratcher]

I don’t quite understand how 2 12v batteries in series are turning a 42v auger

I would wonder, and be concerned, if it didn't...

DC motors, generally speaking, have a max voltage as labeled, but they'll run on more and less, RPS follow course...

<°)))>{

[lunkerslayer]

Yeah there is another thread on this very problem with a owner having his battery go bad check out that thread pm the guys to find out what they did.
Well it's good news it wasn't something else burnt out, regardless there has been others who have been able to run two 12 volt batteries in series just fine.
The thing is with dc motor is that too much volts can make a battery over heat and too little volts can do the same. That is why you have a voltage regulator when you are running a higher battery volts on a motor that isn't wired for it.
Also the 42 volt battery actually at full charge my have a max volts of 43 or 44 volts but with the voltage regulator the motor will never see that.
So now that 42 volt battery staarts ofd at 44 volts as you run your motor your drawing energy from the battery (like letting out air in a tire). The lithium battery has a switch in the battery that won't let the battery drain to a complete 0 volts.
Helping the battery to keep getting too hot. Which is the reason to never let your battery reach below 25 percent total power. Just like cold and heat also takes away the life of a battery overtime. That's why the gator battery was insulated to keep it from getting too cold becuase the lithium cells are damaged when they freeze. Lead, agm glass pack cell batteries can manage cold better but you don't get the amount of charges out of a life battery that is heavier in comparison to a lithium battery of the same volts.
So what i am saying there is a thread on getting a 12 volt 10 amp battery at a much better price anywhere else. Buy two batteries and a charger and be good to go you will be better off becuase the lithium battery will shut off power to the motor unlike a regular lead battery which will let you keep drawing power which will damage the motor that has brushes.
The brush motor vs.brushless motor diffenrt topic.
I am super happy it was just the battery I own two gators myself and I charge my batteries during the off season every 21 days.yeah I know I'm ocd
Merry Christmas

[firwave]

Lunkerslayer, Thanks for the info. I have seen the thread and will contact those folks. Two more questions:

1. You are recommending two 12v 10amp lithium ion batteries. What is the overall requirement? If I see a 37v 10 amp li-ion pack would that work? I guess I am just wondering the range and to understand is it the amp level to be careful with. Like the battery says 4400mAh. Is that 4.4amps?

2. My current "dead" batter is reading 28 on multimeter. Should I try to fix this battery? (that seems scary)

Thanks!

[lunkerslayer]

 12 volt battery can have anything from a few amps to 1000s of amps. A amps on a motor is its torque under load, so amps is power it takes to bring the motor up to full rpm. My understanding of amps in correlation to volts is limited but I know that amps is torque. So when a motor is designed to run most efficiently at 4.4 amps is what the motor wil run for what it is under load, amps to a motor means more heat and heat is what damages a motor over a lifetime.  So yes you can use a 36 volt battery with 10 amps but it will diminish the lifespan of the motor becuase of the heat. Ohms in relationship to amps I have no clue

Now amps can be increased more efficiently to a brushless motor over it's counterpart of a motor that has brushes. Thats why you see electric drills that can handle bigger amps becuase of brushless motor. These brushless motors can produce torque rated into the 1000s foot pounds a motor with brushes could do the same but over time that motor would fail becuase of the heat to the internal wiring or brushes.

 I know that if Greg would have been able to design his gator with a brushless motor it would of have been even been lighter as well as be able to run a bit like the k drill. A k drill needs a motor that has more torque rather than rpm under load. That's why Greg built his own bit to run specifically for the rpms of his motor. If the motor ever goes to crap that is what I will look for is a brushless motor that way I can run a more common battery size like the dewalts new dual volt lithium batteries. Greg had  a lot of great ideas to his invention but the overall lifetime of his components needs to be taken care of to get the most life out of them.

I wouldn't mess with that lithium battery cells unless you hve the proper electronic tools to rebuild that battery. Lithium is very dangerous

One last thing I had discussed on a differnt thread about the gator was the schematics which gives you the specific electric components he used to build the gator. That's what is needed if a person is to repair or improve the design of the unit.

[mvanhank222]

I would check amazon for the batteries they have a large selection. You could try a batteries plus but last time I was there they said they didn’t fix lithium ion.

[Ice Scratcher]

Might be able to rig two 18V (36V) drill batteries to it..

Pretty durable, safe, easy to charge, just a thought..

<°)))>{

[lunkerslayer]

Here's the battery I would get
https://www.ebay.com/i/112402289404?chn=ps&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F711-117182-37290-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fi%25252F112402289404%25253Fchn%25253Dps%2526itemid%253D112402289404%2526targetid%253D363187372282%2526device%253Dm%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9020822%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D937095726%2526adgroupid%253D55174493268%2526rlsatarget%253Daud-384261923467%253Apla-363187372282%2526abcId%253D1129656%2526merchantid%253D111981819%2526gclid%253DCj0KCQiA9_LRBRDZARIsAAcLXjcFotfNmhQNACzbjb-ccclwLIRqdwWI5NjI-N4O_2n48vGpmyQKcfcaAnNyEALw_wcB%2526srcrot%253D711-117182-37290-0%2526rvr_id%253D1398893676267
For that price you could get a few and swap them out
Also you will need a buy a differnt charged
I probaly thinking holy crap that's cheap then you see they come from overseas. But you know what that is the exact batteries you buy from a wholesale place but they just mark them up

[firwave]

Thanks guys for all your help. I'm done with the Icegator. I like it, but it's heavy now compared to drill and this battery issue is too much. Anyone want to buy an Icegator Annihiliator 42v powerhead with a dead battery?

[lunkerslayer]

What kind of bit

[firwave]

What kind of bit

I have a Nils 8” auger that I’m keeping to mount on drill.

[lunkerslayer]

Sounds good

[FISHFORPIKE]

Given todays cordless drill performance and prices, I don't believe repairing/replacing a Lithium Ion battery pack wiould be very price effective.  Here are two PICs of the battery pack out of my gator.  There are two of these packs in the case (connected in parrallel.  Each pack has 7 cells and a controller.  Each Lithium cell is 3.7 volts (there is no writing anywhere on any of the packs or cells).  So go by size to get an idea of AH capacity.  Each pack is approx. 5.5"X2".  It would be a chore to come up with a replacement pack and put it together (though could be done).

Would be really cool if  we could fabricate a base to accept two of the Milwaukee 18V 5A batteries; being able to remove for charging.

Still, not likely a worthwhile project, only to revive a tool that mey otherwise fail in some other way down the road.

Too bad - it was one awesome ice-cutting machine.

I have my gator and will "give" it away (still have the Lead Acid battery pack, which is simple to rebuild) for the shipping cost + $10 to pack it up.  Also have some spare switches and other components of the switches. and adapters for Nils.  Unit has been opened, cleaned and lubricated annually.

[lunkerslayer]

I would a agree for the most part the electric drive is simple and can be improved if one has the time and knowledge. I still like my gators I do wish I could get more flightings for the 9.5 bit though.
Also that board in the battery is where all the magic happens that is the brains to the battery. any 3.7 volt lithium cell will do it doesn't need to be a flat cell in can be a round cell to it just easier to build the battery out of flat cells. You could add cells into that battery pack use a voltage meter and replace the cells that are bad. As long as the board is good that battery can be rebuilt.
So either the 3.7 volt poly cells need to each be 4400 mh
Or each cell needs to be around 800 mh
So to be sure you would need to remove the cells individually so you can test the cell for volts and amps.
But like said if the board is good thaat battery can be rebuilt

[larrylaketrout]

Hello
well my icegator 42v went south. I have been trying to research 42v Li-ion batteries and so far I know the battery is made with 10,3.7 v,10ah, 30a rate polymer cells. Batteryspace.com sells the polymer cells but unfortunately not the correct dimensions. It seems that if one cell goes bad the battery doesn't work, but the bad cell can be replaced. My battery has one cell that is bad.  If someone has a 42v icegator battery they would like to part with, it may have a good cell. Battery space will custom make a battery for you starting @ $400 plus. The cells are $32each if you want to try and replace all the cells which is still nuts.