MT Bait Regulation Questions/Comments

[TJet Apprentice45]

In an attempt to not hijack any other threads it looked like this may be of some use... Any questions or comments on bait regulatoins, fire away!

[TJet Apprentice45]

I'll get it started...  It's legal in MT to use Corn as bait on a hook, but,  Is it also legal to throw a handful down the hole a couple times/day?  I have not been able to find anything about using corn in any way in the regs, so I'd assume it's legal, but we've seen a few assumptions on regs go terribly wrong on here in the past week so just to be safe I'll ask.

[missoulafish]

What about "chumming" the hole with egg shell or oat meal?
Good thread!

[zimmer2]

What about "chumming" the hole with egg shell or oat meal?
Good thread!

I had ask through email that very question and here is the response I got from FWP

Mr. XXXX,
I spoke with our enforcement and it is perfectly fine to chum with corn, maggots or eggs within reasonable limits to avoid littering the water.  Our regulations on pages 22 and 50 specify the use of Dead Bait as follows:
 
 
Dead Bait
• Nongame fish that are freshly killed or have been preserved by freezing, salting or
pickling may be used whole or in pieces as bait on all waters not restricted to artificial
flies and lures. Sculpins (genus Cottus) may not be used as bait, live or dead, in the
Western Fishing District.
• Whole game fish may not be used as bait.
• Parts/pieces of bass, burbot (ling), black crappie, northern pike, or yellow perch may
be used as bait if edible portions are not wasted.
• The eggs of char, cisco, grayling, salmon or trout may be used as bait. Other parts/
pieces of salmonids may not be used as bait.
Thank you for contacting us.
Beth Giddings
 
 
Beth Giddings
Administrative Assistant
Fisheries Division
Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks
1420 E. Sixth Ave.
Helena, MT  59620
406-444-7815


I want to add this was dated 12-17-2007 !!!!!!!!!!So may have changed?

[TJet Apprentice45]

Thanks Zimmer, that's what I thought but always good to know for sure.

[Lamnidae]

"And then for the crowning touch, Vashro grabs a dozen kernels of corn and drops them next to his line.

'I always try to chum a little bit," he said. "Some people still have it in their minds it's illegal to chum. Hasn't been 25 or 30 years. Most people don't realize that.'"

Read more: http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/nocturnal-angler---fwp-official-loves-casting-after-dark/article_fb5e2a41-b11b-59ad-9f99-e6b6eed1e1d4.html#ixzz1hBUhur4a

[Robbi]

"Some people still have it in their minds it's illegal to chum"

I'm in that crowd........always thought it was illegal.  Must be my eastern upbringing.........lol

[RobG]

"Some people still have it in their minds it's illegal to chum"

I'm in that crowd........always thought it was illegal.  Must be my eastern upbringing.........lol

I thought it was too and I grew up here! But my dad did it to get the fish in range of his shotgun, so that is probably why I thought it was illegal It is ironic that we can chum but can't use trail cameras to scout for big game.

rg

[Bullelk34]

I would like to see certified minnows allowed for use- of course I'm dreaming but it works for Wyoming and would work great here too. FWP would fight it tooth and nail I'm sure, because it would add a new dimension to thier duties. Fathead minnows are native and everywhere, so what would it hurt? Also consider how they want the walleye numbers reduced in the Missouri River drainage, yet they outlaw the best bait for them...

[legendjay29]

I would agree with Bullelk34, I think minnows should be allowed across the state. If they are concerned about too many fish being caught, adjust the amounts & throw in size limits also. I fish Canyon Ferry for walleye a lot. I like the limit being dropped this past year but start having a 14" or 15" minimum for keepers. At least this way after a couple years you'll get a lot more size to the catch. Also, your walleye tournaments (14" minimum to measure) across the state will get a little more interesting with more measurable fish to add to totals.

[PerchAssault]

It's NOT that they are worried about too many fish being caught, its the prospect of illegal introductions the first time someone dumps their minnow bucket in the lake at the end of the day. 

IMO, go's hand in hand with why we dont have any "legal" walleye, crappie and other fish, especially in the west.  Purist fishing dollars and lobbying, plain and simple. Can't have any "predator" fish gobbling up trout fry...

[double_a85]

Not sure if this is the best place to ask this or not--- anyone tried the powerbait maggots or earthworms? I haven't had much success in the past using any kind of powerbait but curious about trying these out.

PerchAssault, that warmwater vs. trout debate gets VERY heated... which is why we still have to pay the extra $5 to fish certain lakes.

[gblomquist]

double_a85, i use a variety of powerbait (not the maggots yet) and gulp products during soft and hard water. do well with walleye and perch on gulp stuff and sometimes very well on powerbait for trout.  hope this helps a little. i want to try the maggots power bait.

[Bullelk34]

It's NOT that they are worried about too many fish being caught, its the prospect of illegal introductions the first time someone dumps their minnow bucket in the lake at the end of the day. 

IMO, go's hand in hand with why we dont have any "legal" walleye, crappie and other fish, especially in the west.  Purist fishing dollars and lobbying, plain and simple. Can't have any "predator" fish gobbling up trout fry...

That's exactly why CERTIFIED bait would work- caught in the drainage, no chance of accidental introductions.

[MTangler]

What do you guys know about trapping and using crawfish as bait? As far as I can tell it is allowed..

MTA

[JayHelfrich]

That's exactly why CERTIFIED bait would work- caught in the drainage, no chance of accidental introductions.

If the bait was certified, came with a 60 hour certification from the bait shop (would allow you to get bait Friday night and fish all weekend), and the bait shop would give a little credit if you brought your live unused bait back to them I think that we could get it to work well even if it was allowed only for the Missouri River complex.  Maybe we should lobby the FWP for some kind of trial of this?

Anyone want to help spearhead this thing?

Jay

[Bullelk34]

Well heck, I live here in Helena, so I guess I'll volunteer to spearhead it Jay. I've thought about this for quite some time, as I used to live close to Wyoming and always got a fishing license there so I could ice-fish Bighorn Lake. I think this would be a good way to create a few jobs in the area as well.
 I'm thinking we should create a "commitee of Montana Anglers", can I assume you're in? I know there are ways of petitioning to get initiatives up for ballot, if we go that route we would need alot of volunteers to gather signatures....

 I'll stop by FWP headquarters this week and try to speak with the fisheries manager, to get his thoughts and let him know mine. If anyone has any input feel free to message me, I'll keep you posted and maybe start a new thread posting what I hear from FWP.

Carl

[JayHelfrich]

Sounds good Carl.  I'm down for helping make this work.  Slobs that "fish" would be the main thing that holds us back.  I hope we can put something together.

Jay

[Firetrap]

What do you guys know about trapping and using crawfish as bait? As far as I can tell it is allowed..

MTA

I've done it. Smallies love em. I've only done it in Eastern MT though. Freezing them works ok but the claws and legs get brittle and fall off.   I caught lots of fish on crawdad imitations this year from trout to walleye and bass.  The fish went crazy on them.

[Bullelk34]

It's funny how the older you get, the more you analyze the politics of things. A point I would like to get across the FWP, is many of their rules go against what the law says we are entitled to, IE "innocent until proven guilty". Some of the rules are structured to presume people guilty before innocent. As an example, years ago I hit a gorgeous 4x4 whitetail with my truck, he was about 24" wide as I got out and took a good look at him. I called FWP, explained I was filing a report with my insurance ($3,000.00 in damage), I would have to pay a deductible, etc. I asked if I could salvage the deer and his rack. Nope, no way, not allowed. They said it's illegal, because "if it was legal to take roadkill, everyone would go out at night and shoot bucks, then cut horns in the morning". I think that paranoid way of thinking is why they have successfully kept fishermen from using minnows, assuming if it's allowed people will be dumping minnows and gamefish and disease in every lake and every river. It will be an interesting endeavor, I'm excited to get it started and see where it goes.
 If anyone can help with an alphabetical list of current fish species living in Canyon Ferry, Hauser, and Holter, please let me know.

Carl

[Firetrap]

I agree Bullelk.  Talking to a lot of folks FWP isn't very well liked because of their culture in their service of writing tickets knowing that it's cheaper for people to pay the fines than to hire lawyers and go to court. Then you go to a court in a rural county where the warden is in cahoots with the judge. They fine the heck out of people then giggle over it over beers later that evening.

The stories of entrapment.  Game wardens who give you different answers to the same questions. The harassing attitude of most of them sour hunting and fishing trips.   I myself have done less hunting over the last couple of years due to a couple of game wardens with these tendencies.
 I fish way more now because of less harassment. The only time I was checked while fishing this year was at Yellowtail by the rangers on the lake. Very good people to deal with there. They realize it's the folks who recreate who pay their salary. 

I have met a couple game wardens that were GTG. Unfortunately they retired as soon as they could because they realized what kind of organization they were working for. I wished they were still around because they had my and other's respect.

[doublehaul]

I wish you the best of luck on spearheading live bait West of the divide.

Here's a link regarding one proposed change that was denied this past year. If you read all the discussion pages I think you'll find it a very interesting read.

http://montanacats.yuku.com/topic/1977/Still-need-your-help-to-lower-Channel-Cat-limits?page=1

[Tinker]

Bullelk, start with MFish on the MTFWP website.  It will have the species listed and thier abundance, will also list things like average size, type of sample method, who sampled and when and so on.  I assume those three lakes have been studied more than a lot of lakes in MT so should have some good current data in the system.
http://fwp.mt.gov/fishing/mFish/

[icing_perch]

I wish you the best of luck on spearheading live bait West of the divide.

Here's a link regarding one proposed change that was denied this past year. If you read all the discussion pages I think you'll find it a very interesting read.

http://montanacats.yuku.com/topic/1977/Still-need-your-help-to-lower-Channel-Cat-limits?page=1

This proposed change was actually approved in both the Central and Eastern Districts.  The legal limit is now 10 not 20 catfish.  http://fwp.mt.gov/fwpDoc.html?id=52645

[MTangler]

I'm all for it. Who whould need more than 10 kitties a day anyway. Plenty o' meat

MTA

[RobG]

If anyone can help with an alphabetical list of current fish species living in Canyon Ferry, Hauser, and Holter, please let me know.

You can get that information here: http://fwp.mt.gov/fishing/mFish/

[JayHelfrich]

From the FWP website:

Brook Trout
Brown Trout
Burbot
Common Carp
Fathead Minnow
Flathead Chub
Largemouth Bass
Longnose Dace
Longnose Sucker
Mottled Sculpin
Mountain Whitefish
Northern Pike
Rainbow Trout   
Smallmouth Bass
Stonecat
Utah Chub
Walleye
White Sucker
Yellow Perch
Yellowstone Cutthroat Trout

Jay

[ham_viper]

One comment on chumming with corn. I would recomend that you blend the corn you itend to chum with. I caught a rainbow in LMR last year that was so full of corn its stomach popped when I cleaned it. The corn was fermenting and had blown the poor fish up pretty bad. I don't think they can handle lots of whole Kernals very well. Just my thought on the matter. Chum away but blend first!

[albo]

Carl,

Canyon Ferry has the following: Brook Trout, Brown Trout, Burbot, Common Carp, Fathead Minnow, Flathead Chub, Largemouth Bass, Longnose Dace, Longnose Sucker, Mottled Sculpin, Mountain Whitefish, Northern Pike, Rainbow Trout, Smallmouth Bass,Stonecat, Utah Chub, Walleye, White Sucker, Yellow Perch, and Yellowstone Cutthroat Trout.

Hauser has the following: Brook Trout, Brown Trout, Burbot, Common Carp, Fathead Minnow, Kokanee, Longnose Sucker, Mottled Sculpin, Mountain Sucker, Mountain Whitefish, Northern Pike, Rainbow Trout, Smallmouth Buffalo, Utah Chub, Walleye, Westslpoe Cutthroat Trout, White Sucker and Yellow Perch

Holter has the following: Brook Trout, Brown Trout, Burbot, Common Carp, Fathead Minnow, Kokanee, Longnose Sucker, Mottled Sculpin, Mountain Whitefish, Rainbow Trout, Utah Chub, Walleye, White Sucker,and Yellow Perch.

This information came from the MFish waterbody report from the Fish Wildlife and Parks website.

Al

[lipripr]

Penny for ur thoughts/opinion!
 
    Recently there has been some discussion on bait issues, from using live bait where its not allowed (minnows)  in certain distrists to why or why not live bait isnt allowed thru-out the state as long as the bait comes from a certain drainage. 



















Penny for your thought/opinion?

The issue of live bait?  Recently over one of  my last fishn trips, I caught a perch that spit up a minnow (found in that body of water) that still was basically alive. My question: Is it legal to use that live minnow for bait even tho live bait is not legal to use in that body of water?