Eagle Food !!!!!

[gradysjeep]

I know, that's the shame about Pike in Maine.  Give it time and they will be in every body of water in the state.

I sure as hell hope not   If it does though a lot of lakes ponds will have a lot less fisherman on them because a lot of people could care less about catching a pike.

[Double-L]

I sure as hell hope not   If it does though a lot of lakes ponds will have a lot less fisherman on them because a lot of people could care less about catching a pike.

   You obviously never fished Sabattus prior to 1980......I used to have the lake to my self W/ no access problems.......BEEN THERE LATELY?     Don't try to tell me people care less about fishing for pike. .....LL

[Litchfield Fisher]

\ because a LOT of people could care less about catching a pike.

a lot of people don't care about catching pike, granted a lot do, but just as many do not

[maineduckhunter]

[Left Handed Model]

I was thinking other day about this debate and the whole Trout arguement end of it,  then I started looking thru posts of various Trout caught....  Half of the Trout I saw were females..  If the trout population is hurting so bad, why doesn't IF&W restrict us from keeping female Brook Trout... a single male can fertilize a couple female's worth of eggs.  Would this increase the population by allowing all the Females the chance to spawn?  They use similar thinking on the Deer population.  I know some will say that we don't need more restriction, I understand that arguement.   They say kill the invasives to help the population and preserve the heritage, why not go at the problem 2 fold by saying throw back the females.   I don't keep any fish, but if the populations are hurting so bad, then why not lower the bag limits to 1 fish per day or none like they have with salmon on so many lakes. If we could get more natural reproduction from the Lake Native Fish (they could have been stocked at one point, more or less the fish that live in the lake), then they can spend less on stocking and have more money to promote natural reproduction areas in lakes, create a invasive species management plan to go along with those promotions, and educate how to respect our fishery system, so that we can keep it in balance, and enjoy Fast Paced Trophy fishing on every lake in the state.  I guess that just goes back to management, and what we should and shouldn't do to maintain our heritage and create a profitable Fishery for Maine, and in my opinion, include Pike and Bass in that Fishery.  I have been looking at a lot of Lake Maps and half of them I have read, have some statement about Natural Reproduction Areas and how they are limiting the fish or there is no area for them to.  By increasing their natural reproduction, would the trout have a better chance at competing with Pike in the Lake setting?  and would that prove true for salmon too?  

Another thing I have been thinking about and have talked about it a couple times with some of you guys is,  Have you noticed that almost every other species you catch on Sabattus, White Perch and Bass are on average larger?   You really don't see the smaller or dink fish caught, maybe it was just me.  What we came up with is they gotta grow Big quickly in that lake so they don't become lunch for the Toothies, more or less they adapted to survive, or all the small fish have been picked off and only the Larger fish are left.  With that being said, would they be more active eaters, in order to compete? Would this create a more active fishery?  If that is true for that Lake, would it also be true for other lakes with Pike in them?   Would the Trout and Salmon grow to a size that they wouldn't become lunch, adapt to their environment in a way to survive?

Do we have any biologists on here?  I have been reading a lot lately and a ton of questions like this come to mind,  would any of this be feasible or possible?  I think gathering all the facts for both sides of the plate on this issue, would be the first step to come to a compromise on what should be done to manage our fishery.  We would have to go on the fact, what's done is done, and go from now on what we should do and what is right to have the best of both worlds available in this state.   Trophy Trout and Salmon Water, Trophy Bass and Pike Waters.  Educate everyone that would have anything to do with our waters, on what is right and wrong, and what is needed to do, to maintain the fishery for Trophy fishing.  Then by creating and maintaining these Trophy waters, we would create the needed economic stimulus this state so despratly needs.  It seems like a logical solution to me, I know some don't agree, but I am pretty sure, they would not like to see their favorite lake poisoned to rid the lake of the invasives.  That is what a lot of states do to manage fisheries.   We live in a political country and most the time, in order to get things accomplished you need to make both sides happy.   We are all intelligent people here, well most of us... , and we have had a ton of great ideas about this topic, let's do something about it and make this fishery what it should and can be.  The only way it would work, would be in a cooperative manner, or more or less, the trout side accepts the Pike in certain restrictive waters, and the Pike side helps to promote the trout and salmon to do their part to help preserve the heritage.  Then Both sides fight the Bucket Dumpers together.  I think this would paint a far better picture of what it means to be a True Sportsman.

Just some thoughts I had....I'm interested to know how others think we could come to a respectful compromise on this issue, so that this issue, isn't so touchy.   I know we will never make everybody happy, but there has to be a way to make the majority happy...

[JimP]

You make a lot of sense Lefty...

[Left Handed Model]

I think I could write on this topic all night...  I have to keep stopping myself from rambling on and on and just try to get my thoughts and points out in as simply as I can...  or I end up writing novels....Sorry for the novel guys...Like I said before, just some thinking I had been doing about the topic... for you reading enjoyment hopefully... 8)

[Central Slayer]

thank you lefty I couldn't agree more.

[JimP]

Lefty it's a complicated issue. It stirs up lots of emotions whichever side your on. There is no perfect solution. Only choices that tend to be the lesser of two evils.

[Left Handed Model]

Very True and without all the facts for both sides, who is to say what is right or wrong on how to handle the situation.   Is the IF&W decision based on the facts 100% or is going on the fact of they weren't here before, so they shouldn't be there, kill them?   I guess I haven't heard or seen that arguement from them, to me it seems to be the latter on their decision to catch them and throw em in the bushes.   How do we go about getting all the facts in a nonbiased objective way?

[Double-L]

    Lefty,more of us need to be thinking on the lines you mentioned; most of the bickering on here is getting us nowhere.(we are just spinning wheels)....{& I'm just as guilty as the next guy}......Thanks for the logically based post; Makes sense to me; "A GIANT STEP" in the right direction.       LL

[bucketbass]

i can see your reasoning for these to be out of most of your trout waters but i can also say there has to be people around who would eat these fish why not look for them....to me its just nonsense to waste .....back when i was a kid the guys on the ice here in NY would throw burbot on the ice for the seagulls to eat
so a couple yrs ago we were catching them in with our walleye and i took one home and tried it...it wasnt bad tasting firmed up like a walleye after ya cook it up...ive acually ate them a few times now...and if i dont eat them i know a few that will
some say a pike is the best eatting fresh water fish

[gradysjeep]

   You obviously never fished Sabattus prior to 1980......I used to have the lake to my self W/ no access problems.......BEEN THERE LATELY?     Don't try to tell me people care less about fishing for pike. .....LL

Thats one lake in a heavily populated area.  I'm willing to bet anyone who wants to catch an easy pike within a 80 mile radius drives down there to catch one.  I drive by the belgrade lakes quite a bit and I dont see an army of pike fisherman out there.  I'll bet if people were catching Salmon/trout in numbers the lakes would be loaded with fisherman.   Pike have their place just keep them in the warmwater ponds where they already are.

As for sabattus only having larger bass and fewer smaller ones what happens when all the big ones are gone and the pike have eaten all the smaller ones.   You won't catch very many bass anymore.  Then the pike will start eating each other.

[JimP]

As for sabattus only having larger bass and fewer smaller ones what happens when all the big ones are gone and the pike have eaten all the smaller ones.   You won't catch very many bass anymore.  Then the pike will start eating each other.

That concern was the reason I became interested in pike in the first place. Like Lou, I used to fish Sabattus before the pike and had the place mostly to myself. I would have to say after all these years my concerns about the pike displacing the bass and white perch have not panned out. The Bass fishery is as robust as it ever was and I have seen 2 pound white perch this year.

Very True and without all the facts for both sides, who is to say what is right or wrong on how to handle the situation.

Lefty, I have been thinking about that one all morning. Establishing the facts is hard. I have read a ton of studies and darn near every one contradicts itself even within the same study. We have seen it right here on the shanty. I post an excerpt, Buddah will find something right from the same link to contradict what I just posted. We are both right and we are both wrong. So what do we do? First up you nailed it when you said we have to talk to each other not at each other. Listening is a big part of any conversation. Fishing is both scientific and social. The fact that socially, pike have developed a huge following needs to be addressed. Pike is becoming big business in Maine. I don't think we can ignore that. Personally I am open to trying different things on different waters. The one thing I am pretty confident about is we are on the wrong path now. We are creating a divide amongst ourselves that is going to be pretty darn hard to heal.

[keepah seekah]

Thats one lake in a heavily populated area.  I'm willing to bet anyone who wants to catch an easy pike within a 80 mile radius drives down there to catch one.  I drive by the belgrade lakes quite a bit and I dont see an army of pike fisherman out there.  I'll bet if people were catching Salmon/trout in numbers the lakes would be loaded with fisherman.   Pike have their place just keep them in the warmwater ponds where they already are.

As for sabattus only having larger bass and fewer smaller ones what happens when all the big ones are gone and the pike have eaten all the smaller ones.   You won't catch very many bass anymore.  Then the pike will start eating each other.

do you drive by all the lakes in the belgrade lakes everyday? could be a reason why you don't see an army of pike fishermen there. or perhaps it could be because there's so much more area to cover in the belgrade lakes then at sabbatus pond. it's nothin to round snake point and see north bay of great pond lined with traps with at least a dozen shacks in there. it's nothin to get on north pond at pine tree camps and see at least a dozen shacks with 2 times as many people fishing. should have been with us for the veterans get together on messalonskee a few weeks ago and saw just how many people drove their trucks, wheelers, and sleds on the ice from the sidney launch and headed to the south end. believe me, plenty of people like fishing for pike....just because you don't see people doing it, doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Bailbuster]

We fish pike in the winter and stripers in the warm season, but myself I would rather catch a northern pike than a brood stock brookie that looks like they dragged it to the lake, wild brookies would be a differant story, pike are fun and grow big.here they are game fish so you can only keep so many .But I don't know many that keep any under 36" .If you have them  you got them ,no need to waste any fishery.BB