Author Topic: State Derby Is It Time To Re-Think It (Read 16162 times)

_FLAG_ · « **Reply #60 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 08:41 AM »

I'm not trying to bash anyone on here at all...
I've been on this site for 5 years and every year this (Pike-Sabattus) gets debated 6 ways to sunday..... The only thing that stays the same is the amount of fish it produces..... I really do not believe the derby had an affect on the population....
It seems Sabattus is going to get the majority of the pressure for Pike because it seems to me (I never fished it) that it relatively easy to catch pike just about anywhere on the lake versus the other Pike waters where you have to actually find them?? I may be wrong.... and the weekend "warrior" will much rather have a day of chasing flags then actually working for them, who knows??

JDK · « **Reply #61 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 08:43 AM »

Why not have a prize in the statewide for clean ups.

If Sabattus is really that bad it doesn't sound like the few ruining it for the many it sounds like the many ruining it for the few.

Mainehazmt · « **Reply #62 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 08:49 AM »

Quote from: buddah on Mar 09, 2009, 08:16 PM

I was checked this weekend by both wardens and border patrol.

Now ya got my dander up again! what the hell is the boarder patrol doing out on the lakes! total BS I so fed up with their holier than though attitude right now I almost turned them in this year for hunter harassment they tresspass stop law abiding citizens and need to be on the border not away from the border and when the are on the border don't mess with landowners and family or people with US plates That is the group right there that have the holier than thou attitude

_FLAG_ · « **Reply #63 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 08:51 AM »

Quote from: Mainehazmt on Mar 10, 2009, 08:49 AM

Now ya got my dander up again! what the hell is the boarder patrol doing out on the lakes! total BS I so fed up with their holier than though attitude right now I almost turned them in this year for hunter harassment they tresspass stop law abiding citizens and need to be on the border not away from the border and when the are on the border don't mess with landowners and family or people with US plates That is the group right there that have the holier than thou attitude

Patroling the border

We were fishing East Grand.....

Corso · « **Reply #64 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 08:52 AM »

perhaps some fines for littering for starters...this should be condoned...BUT I dont think they should cancel the event
I personally think the statewide derby is a success...I didnt participate this yr...but not because I thought it would be crowded...that was to be expected...high temps and sunshine predicted...always makes for a busy fishing weekend
this derby brings $ in for businesses at a statewide level...which is always helpful in a slow economy
as far as worries of fishing SABATTUS out...these thing breed like wildfire whats the worry?.....and.......
perhaps there should be 40 more posts on the HOT fishing there...its no wonder that it was so crowded...weve been reading about it for 4 weeks now!

Mainehazmt · « **Reply #65 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 09:00 AM »

Quote from: _FLAG_ on Mar 10, 2009, 08:51 AM

Patroling the border We were fishing East Grand.....

if your fishing what are they doing harrassing you they look where you came from Id tell em to float

Corso · « **Reply #66 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 09:02 AM »

they ride right along side of the wardens at east grand...im assuming that gives them the right to get into the canadian coves

_FLAG_ · « **Reply #67 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 09:06 AM »

Quote from: Mainehazmt on Mar 10, 2009, 09:00 AM

if your fishing what are they doing harrassing you they look where you came from Id tell em to float

there was no reason to tell them to take a hike. The warden was pleasant didn't act arrogant and the BP just stood there tacking it all in.
no need to start crap when all it will do is end ugly... my .02

_FLAG_ · « **Reply #68 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 09:07 AM »

Quote from: Corso on Mar 10, 2009, 09:02 AM

they ride right along side of the wardens at east grand...im assuming that gives them the right to get into the canadian coves

I think they are training with the wardens...??

Mainehazmt · « **Reply #69 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 09:08 AM »

wardens for the most part 99.9% are ok BP useless! when ya got property on the border ya learn!

Mainehazmt · « **Reply #70 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 09:09 AM »

sorry on the hijack but those caraters really PMO!

Corso · « **Reply #71 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 09:10 AM »

I dont think the Maine warden service can govern the CANADIAN coves on east grand...that my theory

JimP · « **Reply #72 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 09:22 AM »

Couple of points. Your right, the people that live here will control it. The are going to close several access points next year. Is that a positive development? Not from my perspective.

I hear guys say that this is going to help the fishing. Not how it is taking place. To many apex pike being killed. We are quickly seeing the same thing with pike in sabattus as togue in moosehead, you are going to have more mouths to feed and a year or two. The explosion of small fish will kill the forage base of the lake and begin to hurt all the species in the lake. I am not for no harvest. I am for a slot like they do almost everywhere they have already figured this stuff out. There is plenty of fish than can be harvested but it needs to be the right fish.

Lastly It wouldn't matter where this happened I wouldn't like it as I think it is short sighted. I haven't fished sabattus more than a few times in the winter for years. Since it was "discovered". The quicker the inevitable happens and the fishing is screwed up maybe then we can start to do some stuff that will work for the long term. We are determined to learn the hard way here.

No Time To_Fish · « **Reply #73 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 09:33 AM »

Quote from: JimP on Mar 10, 2009, 09:22 AM

I hear guys say that this is going to help the fishing. Not how it is taking place. To many apex pike being killed. We are quickly seeing the same thing with pike in sabattus as togue in moosehead, you are going to have more mouths to feed and a year or two. The explosion of small fish will kill the forage base of the lake and begin to hurt all the species in the lake. I am not for no harvest. I am for a slot like they do almost everywhere they have already figured this stuff out. There is plenty of fish than can be harvested but it needs to be the right fish.

Lastly It wouldn't matter where this happened I wouldn't like it as I think it is short sighted. I haven't fished sabattus more than a few times in the winter for years. Since it was "discovered". The quicker the inevitable happens and the fishing is screwed up maybe then we can start to do some stuff that will work for the long term. We are determined to learn the hard way here.

JimP, I agree very much. I think slots limits would work well. I'm not against taking fish, I'm just for responsible management of a resource and adaptive thinking rather than the same cookie cutter approach until something drastic happens to a fishery. Proactive management rather than reactive management.

mainedukblaster · « **Reply #74 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 09:40 AM »

Quote from: kai1414 on Mar 10, 2009, 09:33 AM

JimP, I agree very much. I think slots limits would work well. I'm not against taking fish, I'm just for responsible management of a resource and adaptive thinking rather than the same cookie cutter approach until something drastic happens to a fishery. Proactive management rather than reactive management.

Kai,
I met you last year... ... If you want slot limits etc, call up the IFW get a appointment with Roland Martin..., Or jaques.
If you are so pationate then find out the steps to get hearings about it and see what they think.
But I still feel the State will not put any limits on any invasive species... even if there are established waters like Sabbatus.
The trash has to stop... its uncalled for..I myself pick up cans and trash when I drive by it on lakes and ponds.. I mean sometimes I can make a buck or two.

blacktrap · « **Reply #75 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 09:47 AM »

Quote from: JimP on Mar 10, 2009, 09:22 AM

Couple of points. Your right, the people that live here will control it. The are going to close several access points next year. Is that a positive development? Not from my perspective.

I hear guys say that this is going to help the fishing. Not how it is taking place. To many apex pike being killed. We are quickly seeing the same thing with pike in sabattus as togue in moosehead, you are going to have more mouths to feed and a year or two. The explosion of small fish will kill the forage base of the lake and begin to hurt all the species in the lake. I am not for no harvest. I am for a slot like they do almost everywhere they have already figured this stuff out. There is plenty of fish than can be harvested but it needs to be the right fish.

Lastly It wouldn't matter where this happened I wouldn't like it as I think it is short sighted. I haven't fished sabattus more than a few times in the winter for years. Since it was "discovered". The quicker the inevitable happens and the fishing is screwed up maybe then we can start to do some stuff that will work for the long term. We are determined to learn the hard way here.

The togue problems everywhere are from very successful year classes of spawning fish. Not quite the same problem as with pike. With togue you want to kill lots of them and killing lots of pike in an established lake has an opposite effect. Probably not going to see IFW regulate pike as a game fish as long as the illegal stockings continue and current attitudes of seeing them as a threat to "game fish" (salmon, trout etc.) continue. They can coexist with "game fish" in the right environment.

_FLAG_ · « **Reply #76 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 10:02 AM »

Quote from: JimP on Mar 10, 2009, 09:22 AM

Couple of points. Your right, the people that live here will control it. The are going to close several access points next year. Is that a positive development? Not from my perspective.

I hear guys say that this is going to help the fishing. Not how it is taking place. To many apex pike being killed. We are quickly seeing the same thing with pike in sabattus as togue in moosehead, you are going to have more mouths to feed and a year or two. The explosion of small fish will kill the forage base of the lake and begin to hurt all the species in the lake. I am not for no harvest. I am for a slot like they do almost everywhere they have already figured this stuff out. There is plenty of fish than can be harvested but it needs to be the right fish.

Lastly It wouldn't matter where this happened I wouldn't like it as I think it is short sighted. I haven't fished sabattus more than a few times in the winter for years. Since it was "discovered". The quicker the inevitable happens and the fishing is screwed up maybe then we can start to do some stuff that will work for the long term. We are determined to learn the hard way here.

Jim,
What do you consider an Apex Pike? is it 25",30",35" or 40"?? What do you recommend for limits? 1 over the ?" and how many under?
Then after the limits are set you won't have everyone out there and then the lake will start producing runts and then we will all hear how we need to get in there and whack the runts..... just a never ending cycle...

JimP · « **Reply #77 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 10:10 AM »

Mark, I think a lot depends on the water. I think Sabattus could probably have a 3 - 5 fish limit. Then protect the fish up to say 12 - 15#'s, where does that end up around 32- 34" 36"

somewhere in there. As long as we where whacking the small ones I think we can avoid to many runts. Also big pike will eat as many smaller pike as they can. If you are interested read the Rutz stuff from Alaska. He cites a lot of studies from around the country that you can go and read after you read his. I put the link up in another thread. Google Rutz, Alaska, Pike and you will get it. It is a lot like the togue in that is all comes back to recruitment. When pike numbers are low, recruitment goes up. I admit I am no expert but it all seems to come back to having a population balance in the watershed.
Mark, if the lake had some true trophy's in the 20 - 30 pound range I think the folks would still come. Fishing might be a little slower but the big ones would be really big.

No Time To_Fish · « **Reply #78 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 10:15 AM »

Quote from: mainedukblaster on Mar 10, 2009, 09:40 AM

Kai,
I met you last year... ... If you want slot limits etc, call up the IFW get a appointment with Roland Martin..., Or jaques.
If you are so pationate then find out the steps to get hearings about it and see what they think.
But I still feel the State will not put any limits on any invasive species... even if there are established waters like Sabbatus.
The trash has to stop... its uncalled for..I myself pick up cans and trash when I drive by it on lakes and ponds.. I mean sometimes I can make a buck or two.

I'm not really for that much more regulation. I don't like to see it come to that by any means. I guess I'm just a bit fired up by the waste on the ice. The thing is, the fish that weren't being targeted seemed to have suffered quite a bit just because they weren't pike and took a "pike bait".

gamefisher · « **Reply #79 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 10:40 AM »

There is no way the state is going to institute a special pike reg. on Sabattus after repealing it statewide, not going to happen. You'd have a better chance getting statewide regs. reinstated, IMO which is going to be EXTREMELY tough at this point.

The "big" fish really don't come as easy as you may think, with or without regs. I average 2-3 a year over 15 pounds with them, and I average the same w/out them now and that's with 50 days +/- on the water in the Belgrades.

bbpinecone · « **Reply #80 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 10:54 AM »

What about all the unused bait that was dumped out on the ice at the end of the weekend and suffered needlessly. I bet someone might have liked to use it some other day. Now that will never happen, all because of GREED for prizes and money. Makes me sick...

JimP · « **Reply #81 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 10:59 AM »

Gamefisher, Do the belgrades get the pressure that sabattus is getting or is it more spread out? I ask because you are talking about a lot more water up there than down here. I understand that getting the regs changed would be a tough nut to crack. I have never tried to do that. I figure let things progress and at some point enough people might be willing to support a regulation change. It will take a good fight to get it done. It is one reason I post on the subject, I used to think I was alone in my views but I see more and more people coming around. It takes time to overcome peoples outlooks. I am a patient man...

gamefisher · « **Reply #82 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 11:12 AM »

Quote from: JimP on Mar 10, 2009, 10:59 AM

Gamefisher, Do the belgrades get the pressure that sabattus is getting or is it more spread out? I ask because you are talking about a lot more water up there than down here. I understand that getting the regs changed would be a tough nut to crack. I have never tried to do that. I figure let things progress and at some point enough people might be willing to support a regulation change. It will take a good fight to get it done. It is one reason I post on the subject, I used to think I was alone in my views but I see more and more people coming around. It takes time to overcome peoples outlooks. I am a patient man...

We get our fair share Jim, but yes more acreage and more people willing to "wait out" the big one. I think Sabattus gets more fisherpeople looking for numbers of fish and by all accounts, why not. Our forage base is so different than yours, I in fact rarely see a "small" one but then again I'm not fishing the areas prone to that.

I believe you will get your regulations some day Jim...... but i believe we will both be dead of old age before it happens.

Come on spring! 8)

Pike or no pike, people should not be treating any body of water the way yours was with the trash. I would seriously considering doing what I suggested with your lake assoc. communicating with the derby organizers.

JimP · « **Reply #83 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 11:26 AM »

Quote

doing what I suggested with your lake assoc. communicating with the derby organizers

Probably the best idea in the thread. Thanks for the information on your area. You are probably right I will be an old man before we see meaningful change. Well even older...

dadstacklebox · « **Reply #84 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 11:37 AM »

Great info sharing guys.

We need this. I hope the whole thread makes it's full circle without bashing.

Backwater_ · « **Reply #85 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 12:11 PM »

Wow.....never saw so much complaining when guys were bringing trash bags full of togue into the weigh stations at Sebago. But I guess, it was all just for the salmon right?

? Give me a break! Now you say the statewide is all about the senseless slaughter of Pike right? You have got to be kidding me. If your arguement is either for or against the slaughter of a fish for a derby, than you can't love the sebago derby and hate the statewide. I've heard talk about the management of Pike for the derby?

Isn't it weird that there was all this trash observed on Pike waters after the derby. Funny. I don't recall seeing trash anywhere on the togue lake I was fishing.

dadstacklebox · « **Reply #86 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 12:44 PM »

Who was the one that wanted Sebatus to be a world class pike water in the first place?
Well, there you go.

Now we all can watch and record the process. Time to build some stores and reap the rewards before it's long gone. Rangely is still trying to rebound from world class. I sure hope I don't get sick from that pike chowder I had.

JimP · « **Reply #87 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 01:13 PM »

Bringing the bags of togue to the weigh station at Sebago had a specific management goal. They did limit the amount and you could weigh and they have some protections for the big fish. I don't think the same can be said about statewide.

MEhunter · « **Reply #88 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 01:48 PM »

Quote from: Backwater_ on Mar 10, 2009, 12:11 PM

Isn't it weird that there was all this trash observed on Pike waters after the derby. Funny. I don't recall seeing trash anywhere on the togue lake I was fishing.

Interesting point right there.

JimP · « **Reply #89 on:** Mar 10, 2009, 01:50 PM »

Were there 700 people on a small lake? Was there a hole every 20'.

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Author Topic: State Derby Is It Time To Re-Think It (Read 16162 times)