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Author Topic: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!  (Read 2658 times)

Offline taxi1

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Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« on: Mar 16, 2007, 07:53 AM »
This effectively puts the bait dealers out of business and is good news for bootleggers. Too bad this will actually make the spread of disease more likely. Wow talk about a knee jerk reaction. If feel for the bait dealers that spent all the money on testing and now it's down the toilet.

An emergency regulation is being proposed for addition to the NYS Fish
Health Inspection Requirements.



 "Because of our history with whirling disease and the recent VHS stuff,
AND that fact that IPN has shown up in a DEC hatchery, they will be
 starting mandatory testing for VHS, viremia, furunculosis, ERM and IPN
 an all non-salmonids, and for salmonids they will require testing for
 all of those as well as WD, IHN, and BKD."



 The DEC has established no protocol for collection or inspection and
 they will no longer be offering inspection services, although they have
 no standards in place for accrediting private fish health inspection
 labs.



Additionally, they will be adding regulations that bait collectors can
 only sell for use in the waters form which the bait was collected.




Altogether, this is really going to hammer the small, legitimate,
licensed growers and dealers right out of existence.  The smugglers will
have a much improved field in which to conduct business.


Nobody liked the 18th Amendment more than the bootleggers.



I live in the midwest now but have fond memories of fishing in New England as a kid.

JJ

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Re: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« Reply #1 on: Mar 16, 2007, 08:25 AM »
We have been discussing this issue in NY for some time and no, the bait dealers aren't all going out of business. Not sure of your information source, but new regulations were released his week.

Offline o2rmk800

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Re: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« Reply #2 on: Mar 16, 2007, 08:30 AM »
i think you got a late ride on the bus. we have been talking about this subject for weeks now. read up alittle before you jump in with a new thread thats behind times.

steve

Offline BUCKSKI

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Re: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« Reply #3 on: Mar 16, 2007, 09:16 AM »
Great comparison for bootleggeing and illegal bait. Get I get some H to go with that order?

Who will be the next Al Capone of bait??
St patricks day massacre????
Iam not stopping for any police.

Man I would hate to be a bait dealer now!
" Of course I believe in luck. How otherwise to explain the success of some people you detest"

Jean Cocteau

Offline GAMBELL

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Re: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« Reply #4 on: Mar 16, 2007, 12:33 PM »
This effectively puts the bait dealers out of business and is good news for bootleggers. Too bad this will actually make the spread of disease more likely. Wow talk about a knee jerk reaction. If feel for the bait dealers that spent all the money on testing and now it's down the toilet.


Taxidermist1,

It is not going to put bait shops out of business.  It may raise the prices of bait but we wil deal with it.  As I have said before, It's better than killing a fishery.  This disease is already in 2 of my favorite lakes (Conesus and lake Ontario).  I have seen dead sturgeon, slob smallmouth and slob pike floating dead in Lake Ontario and many walleyes, and big northerns floating dead in Conesus.  Man has already created enough trouble with nature so we need to suck it up and deal with the regualtions. 

Offline taxi1

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Re: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« Reply #5 on: Mar 16, 2007, 01:39 PM »
Guys,

I know all about the VHS situation and I know it's been going on since last October after the emergency rule by APHIS and subsequently your DEC. I'm a fish farmer too, albeit in another state. In fact I may have been one that first posted the information several months ago.

This is different. This is much worse. My aquaculture source says bait dealers will not be able to sell bait except from the waters they came from with the exception of the marine district. I'm not talking about anglers catching their own bait here which was the case previously.

Here's my source. I just got this information a couple of days ago.

William Snyder, Professor of Fish and Wildlife Management
Chair, Environmental Sciences Department
Morrisville State College, Morrisville, New York  13408
tel:  315-684-6237   fax:  315-684-6125
 [email protected] URL:  http://people.morrisville.edu/~snyderw/

 

I live in the midwest now but have fond memories of fishing in New England as a kid.

JJ

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Re: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« Reply #6 on: Mar 16, 2007, 01:45 PM »
Someone didn't read the newest emergency regs correctly, reread bluegill basher's post, that pretty much sums everything up. Bait dealers will be selling certified farm raised bait.

Offline Chainsaw

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Re: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« Reply #7 on: Mar 16, 2007, 05:48 PM »
Wait'll you see the latest restrictions on Herring in the Hudson and Mohawk Rivers. I saw them at Conroys Bait in Watervliet the other day. It would have taken me hours just to digest what was being said but..., it's a lotto words, with sentences like "...cannot be removed from the shores thereof, and/or transported, and etc."

Say What??? What if you want to take 'em home and eat 'em yourself, HELLO !!! It almost seems like you can't even take Herring home with you to consume yourself. Ya know what else??? This don't apply if you obtain a commercial license, DUH?
All folks follow Chainsaws first law of diminishing enthusiasm, "Ya just hafta want to do some things more than others."

Offline stickyfingerdpuppeter

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Re: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« Reply #8 on: Mar 16, 2007, 07:10 PM »
Just because we see dead fish floating dosnt mean they had died of v.h.s Im sure everyone who fishs alot have seen alota dead fish floating,or washed up on the shore.Weve witnessed fish die off for years here on lake erie.I really queston what effect v.h.s is going to have on or fishing.I know its been in lake erie for at least a couple years now.Me myself and other fellow fishermen thaT I KNOW havent noticed anything yet.Thats not to say its not going to?i dont claim to know.But lake erie having a at times strong east currents maybe this will help dilute it or spread it.hopefully dilute it.   

JJ

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Re: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« Reply #9 on: Mar 16, 2007, 07:48 PM »
A virus, such as VHS, can not be "diluted" like a chemical spill would. ???

Offline crayfishbob

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Re: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« Reply #10 on: Mar 16, 2007, 09:12 PM »
Just because we see dead fish floating dosnt mean they had died of v.h.s Im sure everyone who fishs alot have seen alota dead fish floating,or washed up on the shore.Weve witnessed fish die off for years here on lake erie.I really queston what effect v.h.s is going to have on or fishing.I know its been in lake erie for at least a couple years now.Me myself and other fellow fishermen thaT I KNOW havent noticed anything yet.Thats not to say its not going to?i dont claim to know.But lake erie having a at times strong east currents maybe this will help dilute it or spread it.hopefully dilute it.   

Fact : Several hundred tons of sheephead died of VHS in the bay of quinne ( sp), ontario in 2005. Can you imagine that ?


Retired , but still recovering ice fishing addict.

Offline GAMBELL

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Re: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« Reply #11 on: Mar 16, 2007, 09:30 PM »
Just because we see dead fish floating dosnt mean they had died of v.h.s Im sure everyone who fishs alot have seen alota dead fish floating,or washed up on the shore.Weve witnessed fish die off for years here on lake erie.I really queston what effect v.h.s is going to have on or fishing.I know its been in lake erie for at least a couple years now.Me myself and other fellow fishermen thaT I KNOW havent noticed anything yet.Thats not to say its not going to?i dont claim to know.But lake erie having a at times strong east currents maybe this will help dilute it or spread it.hopefully dilute it.   

The DEC tested some of the fish during this time span I was talking about and concluded that the fish that died were infected with VHS disease.  Yes there are other causes of die offs.  Do some research on VHS and you may know a little more about it.  I don't know about Erie but Lake Ontario and Conesus Lake had a lot of dead fish floating at certain times last season.  My buddy had 3 walleyes float up on his 30' of shore frontage in one day on Conesus last June.  He called the DEC and they came and collected the 3 walleyes.  They found ALL 3 walleyes that died were infected with VHS.  People all over the lake were seeing walleyes (for the most part), some smallmouth and some pike float up regularly in June and October.

Offline GAMBELL

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Re: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« Reply #12 on: Mar 16, 2007, 09:37 PM »
stickyfingerdpuppeter,

Here is some education.  Believe it, it is real and dangerous.

What is VHS?
Viral hemorrhagic septicemia (VHS) virus is a serious pathogen of fresh and saltwater fish that is causing an emerging disease in the Great Lakes region of the United States and Canada. VHS virus is a rhabdovirus (rod shaped virus) that affects fish of all size and age ranges. It does not pose any threat to human health. VHS can cause hemorrhaging of fish tissue, including internal organs, and can cause the death of infected fish. Once a fish is infected with VHS, there is no known cure. Not all infected fish develop the disease, but they can carry and spread the disease to other fish. VHS has been blamed for fish kills in Lake Huron, Lake St. Clair (MI), Lake Erie,  Lake Ontario, the St. Lawrence River and Conesus Lake (Western NY). The World Organization of Animal Health has categorized VHS as a transmissible disease with the potential for profound socio-economic consequences. Because of this, they list VHS as a disease that should be reported to the international community as an exceptional epidemiological (study of diseases in large populations) occurrence.

What is the history of VHS?
VHS was first discovered in the mid 20th Century in Europe where it was originally a significant and costly disease of cultured rainbow trout. Since its initial discovery in Europe, four strains of the VHS virus have been identified, including both freshwater and marine strains. In 1988, VHS was reported in spawning salmon in the Pacific Northwest and was determined to be a new strain of the virus (Type IV) that appears to be a North American strain. It is widespread in the Pacific herring and Pacific cod populations in the Pacific Northwest and has also been found in Atlantic herring and Greenland halibut in the Atlantic Ocean.

In 2005, a very large die-off of freshwater drum in Lake Ontario and a muskellunge kill in Lake St. Clair were linked to VHS, representing the first documentation of the disease in freshwater in the western hemisphere. A subsequent test of an archived muskellunge collected from Lake St. Clair in 2003 tested positive for the virus, indicating that the virus was present, but undetected in the Great Lakes system for at least two years. The drum and muskellunge virus isolates were determined to be different than those from infected fish from other regions and were categorized as a unique strain of the virus (Type IVb).

In 2006, additional fish kills in Lake Huron, Lake Erie, Lake Ontario, the St. Lawrence River and Conesus Lake were linked to VHS. Species involved in fish kills linked to VHS included muskellunge, smallmouth bass, northern pike, freshwater drum, lake whitefish, gizzard shad, yellow perch, black crappie, bluegill, rock bass, white bass, redhorse sucker, round goby, burbot and walleye. Other freshwater fish species that have tested positive for VHS are chinook salmon, bluntnose minnows and emerald shiners.

What are the clinical signs of VHS?
The clinical signs of VHS may include tissue hemorrhaging (bleeding), unusual behavior, anemia, bulging eyes, bloated abdomens, and the rapid onset of death; however, these symptoms could apply to many different fish diseases. There is no clear visual diagnostic to confirm VHS. Additionally, not all fish infected show any signs and may become carriers of the disease. The only way to confirm VHS is to test the fish in a lab.

How is VHS spread?
VHS can be spread from one waterbody to the next through a variety of means, not all of which are known at this time. One known method of spreading VHS is moving fish from one waterbody to another. This can be done by importation, stocking, or the use of bait fish. Other potential sources of VHS spreading are natural fish movements, recreational boating/angling, bird assistance, ballast water discharge, and sampling activities.

Where is VHS found in New York?
VHS has been found in Lake Ontario, the St. Lawrence River, the Niagara River, Lake Erie and Conesus Lake.

What can be done to prevent the spread of VHS?
To reduce the likelihood of spreading VHS in New York State, DEC encourages anglers and boaters to abide by the following guidelines:

Do not transport fish from one body of water to another! Note that this practice is illegal without a DEC fish stocking permit;
Only release bait fish into the waterbody it was taken from. Bait purchased commercially should not be released into any body of water;
Do not dispose of fish carcasses or by-products in any body of water.
Remove all mud, aquatic plants and animals from all gear, boats, motors and trailers before leaving a body of water;
Drain your live well, bilge and bait tanks before leaving the water you are fishing or boating on. Anglers or boaters using any waterbody known to be infected with the VHS virus should disinfect their live wells and bait wells with a 10 percent chlorine/water solution. Rinse well to remove all residual chlorine;
Follow all fish health emergency regulations. Please note that due to the timing of this fish health emergency, the fish health emergency regulations were not in the printed 2006-2008 New York State Freshwater Fishing Regulations Guide; and
Inform your friends about the fish health emergency regulations. It will take the cooperation of ALL anglers to help prevent the spread of VHS.
USDA-APHIS Federal Order Prohibiting Importation of Certain Species of Live Fish
Due to the potential adverse effects of this disease to fish populations and the desire to prevent or delay its spread to other states, the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) issued a Federal Order on October 24, 2006, that prohibits the importation of certain species of live fish from Ontario and Quebec and interstate movement of the same species from eight states bordering the Great Lakes, effective immediately. The states included are Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

Fish species included in the federal prohibition are: Atlantic cod, black crappie, bluegill, bluntnose minnow, brown bullhead, brown trout, burbot, channel catfish, chinook salmon, coho salmon, chum salmon, emerald shiner, freshwater drum, gizzard shad, grayling, haddock, herring, Japanese flounder, largemouth bass, muskellunge, Pacific cod, northern pike, pink salmon, pumpkinseed, rainbow trout, redhorse sucker, rock bass, rockling, round goby, smallmouth bass, sprat, turbot, walleye, white bass, white perch, whitefish and yellow perch. Additional fish may be added to the order as they are confirmed to be carriers of this disease. Additional information on the Federal Order can be found on the APHIS website www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/aqua/.

What happens to the fish population in a body of water once VHS is present?
The impact of the Type IVb strain of the VHS virus on fish populations is uncertain. It has caused fish mortalities ranging from a few fish to thousands.

What steps are the DEC taking in response to VHS?
The DEC filed new emergency fish health regulations on March 9, 2007, in response to VHS. These emergency regulations were filed to halt the spread of VSH and other fish diseased into un-infected waters in New York.

Additionally, the DEC, in cooperation with the College of Veterinary Medicine at Cornell University, is sampling fish from a number of waters across the state, including all waters used as sources of brood stock for DEC hatchery activities, to help determine how far the disease has spread in New York.

What to do if you find sick/dead fish
If you witness a large number of dead or dying fish (usually 100 or more), please contact the nearest DEC regional office and ask for the Bureau of Fisheries. Questions about VHS and potential DEC actions to prevent its spread can be e-mailed to [email protected] or by calling 518-402-8896. The public is also advised to regularly check the Department website for updated information on VHS in New York State.

Offline stickyfingerdpuppeter

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Re: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« Reply #13 on: Mar 17, 2007, 07:47 PM »
Thankyou.Hopfully this wont ruin our fishing.sounds like were doomed though.

Offline mcully

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Re: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« Reply #14 on: Mar 19, 2007, 05:54 AM »
I believe a comment period will be available before these regulations become permanent. Check with your local DEC some of these comment periods are now handled on line and come and go quickly.

Offline Mr.Esox

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Re: Wow New York's DEC went over the top!
« Reply #15 on: Mar 19, 2007, 01:04 PM »
Please remember there are 8 states that have to enact there own laws so far 2 Pa., and Mn have done nothing in regards to baitfish,( certified bait reciept) as long as it is in state. They have not went over the top. I will post when I get the other results. They are not stopping the guy that collects his own bait.
Mr.Esox

 



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