Pa fish commission “your thoughts”

[MumbleSEED]

Not a fan of moving things around as they have but I know they’ll never do away with trout stocking in PA.  Trout fishing can be fun I like the mentor day because it gives a chance for my kiddos to catch fish which all get released.  First day of trout is not kid friendly which is not great.

I like you esox guys maybe tell fish commission you’ll buy a stamp so you can catch stockies and pay extra too?

It’s all a racquet they could do better in many ways and so could we as outdoorsman at times too.

[ddgst7]

I just don't get the excitement for 10" fish that fight like socks, then to reiterate the point someone made above, people will string up 6 trout, throw them in the freezer and never eat them, WHAT IS THE POINT.

[butcher]

This may be a tiny bit outside the scope of this post but I thought I'd share this story from one of the rare times I fished for trout in a public PA lake a while ago (maybe 10-15 years).

I think it was late April and maybe two or three weeks past opening day. I took my son out with me to fish. he was probably 8 or ten years old at the time. The lake is basically a square and locals refer to it as a baseball diamond with the boat ramp being home plate. We were maybe 50 yards on the first base line from home and about 10:00am, a small army of "fishermen" arrived all at once. I would guess there were 40 or 50 there. They had rods, waders, poles, and enough Power Bait nuggets between them to fill a 500 gallon drum. But... NOT ONE OF THEM WET A LINE. They literally just stood there at the boat ramp and waited. This went on for almost an hour and again, NOBODY fished.

I wasn't sure what was happening but eventually, I figured it out when a guy a few yards from me was talking angrily on his cell with someone. He said something like, "Yeah. I've been here like an hour and the (BLEEPING) truck still ain't here. It was supposed to be here at 10:00 but it's late. If they don't get here soon I wont be able to fish!"

So all of these "fishermen" showed up right at 10:00 so they could basically fish out of the back of the stocking truck. There were plenty of trout in the lake still - we actually caught two or three while those idiots were standing around griping - but I guess the challenge was too much for them. My son asked me a few times why none of them were fishing and I think I told him, "..because they don't know how to fish." As the minutes went by with no truck in sight, I could actually feel the crowd getting more and more frustrated so rather than wait until a fight broke out or subject my kid to more grown men swearing, we packed up our gear and left. I have no idea if the truck showed that day. As we left, I made sure we walked right through the middle of the crowd with the two or three trout on our stringer prominently in view of everyone.

TRUE STORY

[ddgst7]

This may be a tiny bit outside the scope of this post but I thought I'd share this story from one of the rare times I fished for trout in a public PA lake a while ago (maybe 10-15 years).

I think it was late April and maybe two or three weeks past opening day. I took my son out with me to fish. he was probably 8 or ten years old at the time. The lake is basically a square and locals refer to it as a baseball diamond with the boat ramp being home plate. We were maybe 50 yards on the first base line from home and about 10:00am, a small army of "fishermen" arrived all at once. I would guess there were 40 or 50 there. They had rods, waders, poles, and enough Power Bait nuggets between them to fill a 500 gallon drum. But... NOT ONE OF THEM WET A LINE. They literally just stood there at the boat ramp and waited. This went on for almost an hour and again, NOBODY fished.

I wasn't sure what was happening but eventually, I figured it out when a guy a few yards from me was talking angrily on his cell with someone. He said something like, "Yeah. I've been here like an hour and the (BLEEPING) truck still ain't here. It was supposed to be here at 10:00 but it's late. If they don't get here soon I wont be able to fish!"

So all of these "fishermen" showed up right at 10:00 so they could basically fish out of the back of the stocking truck. There were plenty of trout in the lake still - we actually caught two or three while those idiots were standing around griping - but I guess the challenge was too much for them. My son asked me a few times why none of them were fishing and I think I told him, "..because they don't know how to fish." As the minutes went by with no truck in sight, I could actually feel the crowd getting more and more frustrated so rather than wait until a fight broke out or subject my kid to more grown men swearing, we packed up our gear and left. I have no idea if the truck showed that day. As we left, I made sure we walked right through the middle of the crowd with the two or three trout on our stringer prominently in view of everyone.

TRUE STORY

Perfectly within scope of topic.  This story epitomizes how much of a circus and joke it is.  Congrats dude, you can slam fish that were literally starved for a week, your angling skills are impeccable

[ddgst7]

I wish they would separate the stupid trout stamp from a steelhead stamp.  I'm forced to buy one every year because I'm an avid steelheader but I would never support this program if I had a choice.

[dkfry]

I just don't get the excitement for 10" fish that fight like socks, then to reiterate the point someone made above, people will string up 6 trout, throw them in the freezer and never eat them, WHAT IS THE POINT.

Some places get bigger trout put in that others and they throw a few big ones in here or there. I always looked at stocked trout from the point of for the kids first. Especially the young ones like to catch something every time they go out. Thankfully a lot of rod and gun gun clubs have fishing rodeos for stocked trout which are primarily for the kids so they don't have to be subject the circus of state stocked trout if they do not want to be. Wasting fish should be avoided. But there are a LOT of people out there with the mentality to keep pretty much everything they catch even if they are not going to eat it or plan to give it away. That is a big problem, someone catches some larger fish and in most cases they are not going to get back or they are caught in deeper water and end up dying when released. With a lot of small lakes PA has it doesn't take too long to decimate a population of large for species fish. But many of those small lakes get the same regulations as lakes or rivers that are thousands of acres in size.



The PFBC treating pretty much every lake or stream the same as far as limits and sizes makes zero sense if you want to properly manage a fishery. But of course the lakes they try to manage like ""anfish Enhancement" and Big Bass" lakes tend to be primarily dink central. Thus they can't really do a good job at that either. When you keep primarily nothing but larger fish and a good quantity of them it doesn't take too long to have dink central. In every lake I have ever fished that had a large amount of large for species fish, none of them had an overabundance of dinks.

[PikeKing23]

I know guys in MA that follow the sock trucks too.......just not for trout, lol.

[butcher]

I wish they would separate the stupid trout stamp from a steelhead stamp.  I'm forced to buy one every year because I'm an avid steelheader but I would never support this program if I had a choice.

I'm with you there ddgst7. I buy a trout stamp every year so I can fish for bass and panfish on approved trout waters. Maybe once or twice a year I'll bust out the flyrod to fish a secluded stream for trout but I'm usually targeting wild or holdover fish that are fairly challenging - and they always go back. I probably wouldn't buy a trout stamp to actually fish for trout otherwise.

[jarhead]

Its a put and take fishery state puts and fisherman take.simple as that. Whats the difference trout season circus or the circus at the tribs grown men standing in a 6inch deep puddle say at elk or walnut with 20 other guys.Ropeing 3 trout on a yellow rope dragging them around to bring home to throw in a freezer to rot? Or even the circus at the spillway in pymie early in year.

[jaeger80]

I'm with you there ddgst7. I buy a trout stamp every year so I can fish for bass and panfish on approved trout waters. Maybe once or twice a year I'll bust out the flyrod to fish a secluded stream for trout but I'm usually targeting wild or holdover fish that are fairly challenging - and they always go back. I probably wouldn't buy a trout stamp to actually fish for trout otherwise.

What ticks me off is I like to fish for creek run northerns in the pre and post spawn.  But I can't for a month and a half because the trout stocking has the creek closed.  So I'm all for pushing the start date earlier...because we all know, PA trout isnt going away. 

I personally don't understand why for that month and a half it can't just be catch and release.  I mean closing entire bodies of water in the spring is asinine.

[ddgst7]

Its a put and take fishery state puts and fisherman take.simple as that. Whats the difference trout season circus or the circus at the tribs grown men standing in a 6inch deep puddle say at elk or walnut with 20 other guys.Ropeing 3 trout on a yellow rope dragging them around to bring home to throw in a freezer to rot? Or even the circus at the spillway in pymie early in year.

LOL I don't fish walnut dude.  I have more respect for myself.  I fish upper elk and get away from people if I'm fishing PA.... OH and NY have better programs.  PA just sucks all around. 

[Icemole]

 You can fish a "stocked trout water" for other fish without buying a trout stamp.  You have to wait till trout opens though and of course you can not keep or injure trout. The only spots you need a trout stamp to fish is on Special Regulation areas

[theTUGistheDRUG]

As a kid who learned of my fishing passion through trout fishing with my pops I do understand the program and see it’s benefits for kids. But to me with the state of overdevelopment and bank erosion the thrill is all but gone. I do not like sight fishing. The joy for me comes from the unknown element from hookset to hand. Stocked trout was just the gateway for me to gain more confidence to look for other monsters that lurk in the deep. The tug IS the drug.

[theTUGistheDRUG]

Fishing is as much about the pain and agony of the skunk, as it is the full stringers or in my case epic photos (mostly C&R). The bad times make the good times that much better. 

[butcher]

You can fish a "stocked trout water" for other fish without buying a trout stamp.  You have to wait till trout opens though and of course you can not keep or injure trout. The only spots you need a trout stamp to fish is on Special Regulation areas

I pulled the following info from the PA Fish Commission Website regarding trout permit requirements:

5. When is a Trout Permit required?
A current Pennsylvania Trout Permit is required to fish for trout in Pennsylvania waters. An angler “fishes for trout” when he or she:

Takes, kills, or possesses, while in the act of fishing, a trout from any PA or boundary waters.
Fishes in waters under special trout regulations.
Fishes in any Class A Wild Trout Waters or Wilderness Trout Streams or their tributaries.
Fishes in streams and rivers designated as Stocked Trout Waters on March 1 through May 31.


As I read this, it would seem to indicate you are "fishing for trout" if you are fishing in a stocked stream or river - even if you are not actually fishing for trout. Since lakes are not specifically mentioned anywhere, it appears they would be excluded. These regulations seem to allow room for confusion so I simply buy the stamp/permit every year so I avoid arguments with officers and any resulting fines.

[dkfry]

^^^^ That applies to most lakes that are stocked with trout also.

[butcher]

^^^^ That applies to most lakes that are stocked with trout also.

That’s what I thought but I didn’t see lakes specifically addressed on the fish commission website. Regardless of the rules, I just buy the stamp even though I really don’t fish for trout. I’d rather spend the few bucks so I avoid an argument and a possible fine.

[Schooley79]

I would like to see some of these class a wild trout streams placed under catch an release artificial lures only restriction in a small stream a couple people decide to kill them before long a mile of great stream is fishless

[Icemole]

I would like to see some of these class a wild trout streams placed under catch an release artificial lures only restriction in a small stream a couple people decide to kill them before long a mile of great stream is fishless

 They should also close all class A creeks from September till "opening" day.(Brookies + browns are both fall spawners... the few wild rainbow we have are late winter/early spring spawns) Too many guys are wading through the creeks destroying spawning "redds" and fry hiding on the bottom after hatching ! 30years ago there was only a handful of us fishing for wild trout.... now thanks to hero shots plastered all over the internet it has become trendy.

[4seasonfishrman]

That’s what I thought but I didn’t see lakes specifically addressed on the fish commission website. Regardless of the rules, I just buy the stamp even though I really don’t fish for trout. I’d rather spend the few bucks so I avoid an argument and a possible fine.

They changed the regulation a few years back.  It used to be you had to have a trout stamp to fish stocked trout streams/lakes up til the end of May.  After May you could fish those waters without a trout stamp.

Now you can fish lakes without a trout stamp you just can't keep trout obviously.

[butcher]

Thanks for the clarification 4Season. That helps.

[Crappie-addict]

It would be sooo easy for them to have different regs for stocked trout lakes vs streams/rivers. Thats the way it is where I'm from (michigan). Why the pennsylvania fishing commission decided to make it all the same is completely beyond me.

[4seasonfishrman]

They should also close all class A creeks from September till "opening" day.(Brookies + browns are both fall spawners... the few wild rainbow we have are late winter/early spring spawns) Too many guys are wading through the creeks destroying spawning "redds" and fry hiding on the bottom after hatching ! 30years ago there was only a handful of us fishing for wild trout.... now thanks to hero shots plastered all over the internet it has become trendy.

But isn't that why there is a reduced bag limit during the offseason?  Also most good streams are under special regulations such as delayed harvest where it's all catch and release.  I really don't think there are that many people fishing during the winter for it to really impact trout spawning success.  Also, most people fishing for trout during the winter are diehard anglers and practice catch and release.

[beerduck]

everybody is making good points and they all differ in some way. bottom line its a people problem

[fisher 74]

I think they need to do general state wide regulations 10 perch 10 crappies 9 inches, 15 bluegill no size limit, then focus on stocking walleye pike musky stripers and lake trout. Seeing too many small lakes this year getting hammered with people taking buckets full of panfish home. I buy a musky stamp each year to help with stocking, another idea would be too make special regs for each lake because it seems like each lake has a different fishery than another some slight some major differences. I think they should focus stocking of trout to the streams and forget the warm water lakes

[butcher]

I like some of your comments Fisher74 - especially reducing creel limits and increasing size requirements on panfish. I also like the idea of stocking some additional species in certain lakes - where appropriate. I have made similar comments previously as have others.

The idea of making every body of water its own special regulations area though is very difficult. In theory, that’s the correct way to manage wildlife but the application and management becomes really difficult.

Maine did that for many years and I believe they simplified their regs a year or two ago because there were too many rules and it was really difficult to understand what rule applied where and when. My son and I did an ice fishing trip a few years ago in Maine and it took me a few days just to understand the regs on the lake were going to fish. I posted on the Maine forum in this site and even the locals struggled to give me the rules. Some guys thought one rule applied while others thought a different rule applied. The thread went on for days trying to determine what bait could be used on that lake (not kidding). If the residents of that state couldn’t understand the rules clearly, how can anyone else? I could see similar issues anywhere where each lake had its own set of regs.

Thankfully the state consolidated the rules and made them apply to most waterways which made it easier for everyone to understand and comply.

[Icemole]

 Don't forget the PFBC is barely breaking even. A thought of mine is to go back to stocking fry for the "other" fish. As it stands now for walleye + cats they stock fingerlings. They used to stock musky fingerling but are now going to stock those at 10-14" lengths(and no doubt fewer). IDK how big the walleye or cat fingerlings are but the musky fingerlings used to be 4-6". When the musky were stocked at a local lake it was a dinner bell for the bass, hybrid stripers, walleye and even musky. Out of the 5,000 dumped in at the boat launches on Monday you were lucky to see 5 by the end of the week. (this lake has no weeds and not much rock at the ramp areas)

 The reason I say go back to fry is because they can stock far more for little cost. No feeding till "X" length. Yes most will get eaten over time but they will also learn to avoid being eaten. Say you stock 10,000 fry 500 learn to survive to legal size. While out of the 5,000 fingerlings stocked previously only 100 survive to legal size.

[theTUGistheDRUG]

Very nice thoughts icemole. That would make a lot of sense. Most of these reservoirs have a lot of big hungry fish that will eat just about anything. Play the numbers game.

[clayboy]

when there are comments of the commish breaking even that is exactly what they are to do. They are not supposed to make profits . every cent is to go into the waters. the game commish buys more lands with our dollars so why isn't the fish commish getting more lakes from reclaimed lands? Opportunity. then work with the public. Take our help put in structure yet again Opportunity