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Author Topic: Navionics vs custom social maps  (Read 4802 times)

Offline Houligan

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Navionics vs custom social maps
« on: Feb 27, 2018, 09:40 AM »
Moved this here from the Keyhole Reports and conditions board so not to clutter it up with off topic discussion.

The navionics app and maps are not even close to showing what is under the water at Keyhole. Waste of money.

You bought it. I've seen you use it. I use the heck out of mine. Waste of money I beg to differ. For $10.49 its worth it, why not. It gives you a general idea. Heck all the secret spots you would have not known unless you started with the map. From there the lake is yours to explore.  LOL

Sorry to disappoint but I have never used a navionics map while fishing and none of the "secret spots" I fish are even shown on the navionics maps/apps. Yep, sadly I was stupid enough to buy the navionics western map, $150 waste of money. You have never seen me use it because I've never used it, never once. I compared it to my custom maps and discovered the navionics map was off as much as 30' in water depth in many areas and is barren compared to custom social maps. Its a joke compared to actual data. I can assure you the maps you've seen me use were only the custom maps, not navionics. ;) I load them on my own micro sd cards, never used a navionics chip/map.

Next time we are out I will show you the difference.

You spent $150 on it...and never used it...once?  Lol how would you know if it was accurate or not then?

Looking at these two maps I'll let everybody here decide which one is a joke.  Sorry Navionics doesn't hand out GPS coordinates for your "hot spots"...






Really? Did you know you can load the map without being on the water? I said "I never used it fishing". The "secret spots" statement means structure not gps coordinates.

Laugh all you want, I have never used navionics on the water, period. Of course I looked at it, how do you think I found out I wasted my $150. I really thought navionics would be of value. Prior to that I've only been using the custom maps. The navionics map was picked up by a friend and brought to me for an outing on DeSmet and being familiar with my custom maps I loaded the navionics map, at the truck, and going to my waypoints, the "secret spots", I was shocked that navionics had none of the features I marked with waypoints and the depths were way, way off. I pulled the chip out put it back in the case to never be used on the water. Here in the house I loaded it to compare my keyhole waypoints only to be disappointed again. It is worthless compared to the data in the custom maps.

Those of us that take the time to make the social maps are providing accurate data for mapping and the difference is undeniable. More people need to get involved in this. Many of the custom lake maps are incomplete as far as the main deepest flat basin but the edges, popular humps, and most productive areas are mapped so far on Keyhole. Showing pictures of the two for argument sake is not comparing apples to apples. Just because navionics has seemingly more info, that information is incorrect data and might as well not even be there. I challenge anyone to compare the data available and not see the difference. But hey if all that false information in the navionics maps makes people feel all fuzzy inside, have at it...

Take lake DeSmet for example. We only started mapping it last year, its a work in progress. Prior to that the available maps were so far off, according them I was fishing a hundred yards up on the shore. Take a look at your navionics for DeSmet. Look at the inlets at the lions club north and south boat ramps. Go out to the mouth of those inlets. What do you see? Straight lines showing a gradual decent of rather shallow water. Guess what?, its 45 feet deep in that area of the north inlet and 30 some feet in the south inlet mouths. Not 7-15 feet. There is actually a creek channel and many other features you will never see using navionics. This is only one example. It continues. I will say navionics has taken the DeSmet data uploaded so far and corrected the shoreline area so their map does not show you are fishing on the shore but the rest is still not accurate at all. Some improvements have also been made to keyhole but still far from having the accuracy the custom maps have. 

But hey, suit yourselves. Just trying to help.

Cheers!

Offline POk3s

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #1 on: Feb 27, 2018, 03:30 PM »
Okay timeout.... I'm all for more info. Where can I find out more about custom lake maps? I've never even heard of g before. I'm obviously out of the loop on where all the arguments came from and don't think I want to be involved hahaha. Just want to figure out what this custom map stuff is all about
Trent Williams
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Offline WYOBEAR

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #2 on: Feb 27, 2018, 04:25 PM »
POK it is called Genesis Social maps.  You can look at anything anybody has uploaded.   Its pretty cool.

Offline wyopro

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #3 on: Feb 27, 2018, 05:24 PM »
Houligan, your basis for social maps is user input with real time updates. That's the basis of Navionics lol. You think they went out and logged all the data?? With a compatible sonor you log and track then send to Navionics and they provide updates off that data....if that's your thing which you seem to be raving about.

Offline rbmchief

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #4 on: Feb 28, 2018, 07:35 AM »
My navionics app has put me on fish quite a few times over the years on numerous bodies of water. Never hear a bad word from me on it, well worth the $5 a year!
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Offline Dorado

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #5 on: Feb 28, 2018, 08:26 AM »
Houligan, your basis for social maps is user input with real time updates. That's the basis of Navionics lol. You think they went out and logged all the data?? With a compatible sonor you log and track then send to Navionics and they provide updates off that data....if that's your thing which you seem to be raving about.

The user uploaded data is definitely the way of the future.  However, Navionics and Lakemaster actually send out crews with sonar that set up transects and "map" the lake contours for their maps.  The problem is that lakes and reservoirs in WY see such little angling pressure compared to most of the US that it is not worth it for them to map (I would say this is actually huge positive, cause I hate crowds).

The Navionics card in my fishfinder in my boat, is pretty worthless for the lakes I have tried in western WY.  But it is fantastic for Lake Powell, where you are always in fear of running into hidden structure that is always changing due to fluctuations in water levels...... 

Offline Houligan

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #6 on: Feb 28, 2018, 03:06 PM »
Okay timeout.... I'm all for more info. Where can I find out more about custom lake maps? I've never even heard of g before. I'm obviously out of the loop on where all the arguments came from and don't think I want to be involved hahaha. Just want to figure out what this custom map stuff is all about
Hi POk3s, Interesting you mention this. A while back you asked about a topo map for Ocean Lake. appleye replied speaking of these social maps. Did you look into it then? If more people would work on this with us lakes like Ocean would have an accurate map for the entire lake.


Houligan, your basis for social maps is user input with real time updates. That's the basis of Navionics lol. You think they went out and logged all the data?? With a compatible sonor you log and track then send to Navionics and they provide updates off that data....if that's your thing which you seem to be raving about.

Hmmm, Is it that you're against people having better maps then navionics or is it that you are against people using maps other then navionics? Just trying to figure out where your defensiveness for navionics vs. the accurate data of the custom maps is coming from. If you had a better map then navionics and it was free are you saying you would not consider using it?

Once again...
Quote
I challenge anyone to compare the data available and not see the difference.
Until doing so, argument for or against the idea of a better map other then navionics would be of opinion and pure ignorance.

Not going to argue the facts on this subject. For those willing to take an honest look-see, compare the data, and see the difference. I'm willing to help anyone get involved in improving our overlooked mapping for Wyoming. Its easy and a win, win for us all.

Offline Houligan

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #7 on: Feb 28, 2018, 03:38 PM »
The user uploaded data is definitely the way of the future.  However, Navionics and Lakemaster actually send out crews with sonar that set up transects and "map" the lake contours for their maps.  The problem is that lakes and reservoirs in WY see such little angling pressure compared to most of the US that it is not worth it for them to map (I would say this is actually huge positive, cause I hate crowds).

The Navionics card in my fishfinder in my boat, is pretty worthless for the lakes I have tried in western WY.  But it is fantastic for Lake Powell, where you are always in fear of running into hidden structure that is always changing due to fluctuations in water levels......

Spot on Dorado! I wish it were different. The whole navionics thing might be great for those lakes they actually did map or continue to get user data input on a regular basis to update, which truly is not the case for Wyoming lakes. I've talked to navionics about ways to gap this discrepancy and they are not going to map our waters anytime soon. Did not get anywhere when bringing up the fact our maps are so far off and paying so much money for incorrect data either. Asked where the data we do have came from and did not get an answer.

On the other hand Insight Genesis side of it has been very helpful in understanding how to make this work but it helps to have participation. Even if people are not interested in helping everyone as a whole with the mapping they are still missing the fact they can log their own data accurately and use it for themselves. Overall its laughable how negative people get when stating navionics maps for Wyoming are not accurate.

Cheers!

Offline SirCranksalot

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #8 on: Feb 28, 2018, 05:15 PM »
And it's not just Wyoming. Here in Ont I think the lakes for which users have uploaded data, but for other 'less busy' lakes I think they just took the gov't maps with 10' contours and interpolated for the 1' contours. There were 'humps and hallers' in places where Nav. showed smooth uniform contours in a few places I checked.
Keep yer stick on the ice!

Offline massNtrash

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #9 on: Feb 28, 2018, 05:16 PM »
I'm just curious what kind of files can be uploaded into the insight genesis? Do they have to be the raw sonar readings or will something else work? I am thinking of the autochart files here.

Even if people are not interested in helping everyone as a whole with the mapping they are still missing the fact they can log their own data accurately and use it for themselves.

True but for someone like myself who has a newer humminbird unit with autochart live there is no need to get involved with this. I make all my own maps in real time while out fishing and why should I have to put in all the effort only for someone else to reap the benefits? I have burnt a fair amount of fuel to map the lakes around here (not mapped by navionics, well they are but they are worthless) and have found some new "hot" spots by doing so so what benefit would it be to me to share them? I looked at insight genesis today and there is nothing mapped in my area on there. Just questions I am wondering about from your stand point. No knocking it but that is my stance on the issue.

Offline Special

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #10 on: Feb 28, 2018, 09:13 PM »
Ok navionics are government maps. If the lake is owned by state or gov. its mapped. County owned Like Desmit, Semino, Pathfinder, Alcove, Healy, Local ponds they are not on the chip.  So if your willing to pay the 100 bucks for the Genisis mapping to each there own. As for me I use it for reference and will keep it in my arsenal.  Why not. I just got back off Cascade ID chasing the Big Perch. Find me a map to chase. Not easy but I had Navionics I'll take that. I have 2 days and If its the only map that helps me out, I'm going to use it. Also you can move up and down on water levels if you get to understand the app. But with tech growing Custom maps will be the thing. Just how much you willing to pay.
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Offline wyoutdoors

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #11 on: Feb 28, 2018, 09:39 PM »
I have a number of fishing industry friends using SonarChart Live to map off the "beaten path waters" and to dial in their own local waters. I personally use Navionics and will utilize the Map Option features to zero in on local water levels, depth ranges, etc. and have had no real issues with the software. I run into quite a few who don;t utilize all of it;s features too. Most fisherman I know and run with use Navionics then a handful are LakeMaster users. None of them have ever mentioned or spoke of Genesis Social.

One of the kayak mods I hope to get to this summer will be a SonarPhone T-Box for my own mapping abilities in the Bighorns and some of the smaller waters. A good friend of mine in Canada uses this quite a bit to map wilderness waters in his area and it does an outstanding job for the cost.  :tipup:

Offline WYIfish

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #12 on: Feb 28, 2018, 10:33 PM »
My navionics app has put me on fish quite a few times over the years on numerous bodies of water. Never hear a bad word from me on it, well worth the $5 a year!

I bought my navonics last October and spend a lot of time on the couch practicing with it. With the coming of ice, I have continued to find enjoyment in using it. It has helped me understand more of the gorge that I would never do from drilling holes or using a boat, just isn't enough time to do all that hunting spots. One of my favorite options is the tracking trails on the access two track roads going to the water. For the money, hard to beat navonics I will be happy to use mine for a while to come that's for sure.                                                         
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Offline appleye

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #13 on: Feb 28, 2018, 10:43 PM »
To use the data you have to record it with a compatible fish finder, Garmin, Lowrance etc.. It is then uploaded to Genesis. They convert the data into a map from the GPS/sonar log. The data that is on the social map is the best recording that Genesis has received. Most of the data from Keyhole I've recorded over the last couple years and it's about 1/2 of what I have in my upload files. When you pay the subscription you can combine all of the data in your file. Keyhole shows about 2400 acres on the social map, I have close to 5000 acres in my upload file. The data in the upload file also shows bottom composition, (muck, rock etc.) and vegetation. Genesis will not add the data from a file where the boat goes on plane. To save the data to a graph unit the serial number has to been in your subscription file to work on that unit.

I pretty sure the Navionics map for Keyhole is based off the original land survey before the lake was filled so the high spots it shows but the accuracy isn't very good. I had a copy of the old survey map and used it for years finding spots. I believe with time silt and erosion (Hitler point?) has changed the way the bottom looks.

Three years ago I called Navionic and asked about any lakes in Wyoming that have been mapped and was told no lakes in Wyoming would be mapped anytime soon because there was no money to be gain by them. That is when I was told about Genesis.

I can tell you that using the Genesis system I've found stuff I never was under the water. I've been on Keyhole since I was in my teen's and my first boat when I was 22. I have lots of information about the lake, photographs from when the water was low, rock piles I've found, pit's that were mined etc.
I don't think you can ever stop learning and this technology is very good, well worth $100 a year. You can down load the social map for free with if you have an account with Genesis and a graph saved on your file.

There's my three cents worth.
In the memory of "Team Lighting" Fish ON!
No one ever says,"Man that fish tastes small.
Thank you Lord for thinkin bout me. I'm alive and doin fine!!!!!!

Offline POk3s

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #14 on: Mar 05, 2018, 07:48 PM »
Hi POk3s, Interesting you mention this. A while back you asked about a topo map for Ocean Lake. appleye replied speaking of these social maps. Did you look into it then? If more people would work on this with us lakes like Ocean would have an accurate map for the entire lake.

I did not. I either missed it or had no idea what he was talking about and it slipped by me.
Trent Williams
When hell freezes over, I’ll ice fish there too!

Offline Houligan

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #15 on: Mar 05, 2018, 11:07 PM »
Hey guys,

With as cheap as fisherman are its a huge surprise Insight Genesis is getting this much disregard. People are not looking at it in proper perspective. I get the sonarchart live with navionics and yes it kind of runs the same way but first you have to buy a navionics chip, few hundred bucks, then you need the app or the app and a wifi compatible unit/upgrade, running anywhere from several hundred to a few thousand dollars, before you can start to create maps or in this case with Keyhole supply navionics with the accurate data that should have been in the $150+ map you just paid for.

The thing with Insight Genesis people are missing is IT IS TOTALLY FREE!!!!.... You do not have to buy any map to start as with navionics, you don't need expensive wifi capable units, as with navionics. In fact all you need to do is create a FREE account, enter your compatible graphs information, and you can download any of the current maps logged thus far to a SD card. The logging of data can be done on older units with insight capabilities that most Lowrance/Simrad owners already have. You can map any lake, pond, or body of water. Simple easy and free.  ;D

I had an intro version of the Genesis paid subscription and unless you want to keep the maps private and use a few other features you will not need the paid version. Even if you did want this, at $99/year you could do this for twenty years compared to the cost of some of these wifi units for mapping nevionics. If more folks got involved we could have pretty much the majority of all Wyoming lakes mapped in a few years. Which in turn will provide free maps of our lakes for everyone.

EDIT: Wanted to add this. The whole point to this is to get Wyoming waters mapped. There are many popular lakes that aren't mapped at all and maps with data are of no use. We pay for this when buying western lake maps which really isn't a fair deal for our entire state. For people hesitant because of giving away private spots, you are more then likely giving more information away by sitting on those spots fishing then someone randomly picking them from a map. Plus this works both ways.

Have fun on the ice everyone.

Offline wyopro

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #16 on: Jan 09, 2019, 11:40 PM »
Going to take a minute here...choke down the crow I'm licking off my fingers...and apologize to anybody I offended or pushed off on the C-Map Genesis.  One of them I consider a good friend and was a bit quick to judge having not done my research.  First I'd like to show a few pictures below detailing the definition gained in the bathymetry of custom maps generated by individuals fishing our local Wyoming waters.  I've known about these "humps" however, but never seen them mapped.  IMO this is a perfect example outlining the differences between Navionics and Genesis.  In an earlier post, I was unable to zoom in on the Genesis map and jumped to a bad conclusion.







Long story short...my go to electronics have been an iPhone with Navionics and a vexilar.  The Navionics was easy to use, the app works great on smart phones, and it is inexpensive.  Around $15/year I think.  It's obviously lacking definition, and like mentioned above, based off previous survey maps. But, it was a go to item to take a quick gander and start drilling many, many holes to go from there.

Now, after researching and learning about the advantages of the C-Map Genesis, I will most certainly be using it on the water as I have an older Lowrance Elite 7 and it is capable with that.  I'm still trying to figure out how to take advantage of it and use it ice fishing but it is proving to be difficult.  There is no app and I'm not switching from my Vex 28 to a sonar unit for ice fishing, yet.  The online social map on PC is great, but there is no GPS capability so copying and pasting coordinates before hand is out of the question. 

My hope is individuals keep getting on board, as I have even though it took me a bit, and the tech from C-Map becomes more refined to be included with GPS units as well.....



Offline appleye

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #17 on: Jan 10, 2019, 01:43 AM »
I am a flasher person and use the Cmap I run Hook5 in flasher mode split with a 2d screen and I really like that as a system now. The GPG is a click away and before I move big or small I click over to the map screen.

One problem I've seen after a couple years of using is making sure the data uploaded to Cmap has the right lake elevation. Once I modified all the uploaded data the map became very good. So if your saving data on the private mode make sure the lake elevation is right for the time period which  is easy to find.

The other advantage of the Cmap on the GPS is the way points that I save all the time then exploring through the ice. Small rock piles, sharp breaks, shallow water are now viewable.
In the memory of "Team Lighting" Fish ON!
No one ever says,"Man that fish tastes small.
Thank you Lord for thinkin bout me. I'm alive and doin fine!!!!!!

Offline Yellowstoner

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #18 on: Jan 10, 2019, 04:06 AM »
I have never heard of these maps before, but boy am I blown away.  Some of the waters that I fish that have previously never been mapped have some of the most important main points mapped out, which is a huge advantage.  It's also pretty easy to see where people have fished previously, as there are a bunch of small areas mapped out, which may prove to be decent spots to hit ice fishing.  Thanks for the knowledge all!  Beats the heck out of using *just* Navionics.

Offline POk3s

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #19 on: Jan 10, 2019, 07:56 AM »
So if you join the genesis mapping is more of the lake mapped out??? I’m all for spending the money if the maps are there.
Trent Williams
When hell freezes over, I’ll ice fish there too!

Offline Mohawk Garage

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #20 on: Jan 10, 2019, 08:03 AM »
I just downloaded it to my phone, and there wasn't a single lake in Wyoming that had any mapping that I could find. Am I doing something wrong? Or do I just stick with the navionics I already have?

Offline wyopro

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #21 on: Jan 10, 2019, 10:05 AM »
I just downloaded it to my phone, and there wasn't a single lake in Wyoming that had any mapping that I could find. Am I doing something wrong? Or do I just stick with the navionics I already have?

Myself as well...not sure how to get the social maps synced up with the app for iPhone?

Offline appleye

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #22 on: Jan 10, 2019, 11:49 AM »
I didn't know there is an app. The Cmap is for recording data and uploading to there sight to make customized maps. If you pay the subscription the map can show bottom hardness and weeds. Depth is in one foot lines. I record data all summer and upload then get a notice the data is uploaded into my account. I then can view what I recorded and also look back at what my graph showed on the recording line. I upload all my data for the social map but most people I know don't do that (long story). You can make a personal map from all of your recordings into one large map that can be used in your unit . Hope that makes sense .
In the memory of "Team Lighting" Fish ON!
No one ever says,"Man that fish tastes small.
Thank you Lord for thinkin bout me. I'm alive and doin fine!!!!!!

Offline Mohawk Garage

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #23 on: Jan 10, 2019, 04:46 PM »
That's what I do with the navionics, I mapped out a bay at seminoe with navionics and the vexilar t-box, this summer hopefully I will be able to get more, fingers crossed lol

Offline wyoutdoors

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #24 on: Jan 10, 2019, 05:07 PM »
I've thought about adding this setup to my kayak this Summer. How do you like it?  :tipup:

That's what I do with the navionics, I mapped out a bay at seminoe with navionics and the vexilar t-box, this summer hopefully I will be able to get more, fingers crossed lol

Offline Mohawk Garage

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #25 on: Jan 10, 2019, 05:54 PM »
I like it a lot, but I was in my little personal pontoon so I didn't map out as much as I would have liked to, but this summer I'm gonna borrow my dad's boat and hopefully map almost the whole lake

Offline slamber

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #26 on: Jan 16, 2019, 11:03 AM »
A lot of the Navionics DeSmet data was uploaded by me starting in 2013. I worked on it for several seasons and finally gave up because their interpretation was so bad. Every few years I'll update my chip and someone else must be submitting data since the map has changed in some spots. In 2015 I switched to SonarCharts and have created personal maps for most of DeSmet, most of Tongue, and all of Healey. I'm much happier with the quality of maps that I can create using the Lakemaster/Humminbird product. I use both the Navionics and Lakemaster products and find the Lakemaster product to be much more useful especially when used in conjunction with my Humminbird/Minnkota combo.

Offline massNtrash

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #27 on: Jan 16, 2019, 02:12 PM »
A lot of the Navionics DeSmet data was uploaded by me starting in 2013. I worked on it for several seasons and finally gave up because their interpretation was so bad. Every few years I'll update my chip and someone else must be submitting data since the map has changed in some spots. In 2015 I switched to SonarCharts and have created personal maps for most of DeSmet, most of Tongue, and all of Healey. I'm much happier with the quality of maps that I can create using the Lakemaster/Humminbird product. I use both the Navionics and Lakemaster products and find the Lakemaster product to be much more useful especially when used in conjunction with my Humminbird/Minnkota combo.

I do the same thing myself. I too have both humminbird and navionics products in my boat at all times but unless I am on a lake that is HD on the navionics or not mapped on one or the other I am running humminbird mapping and I am usually recording my own maps while out. These new units with the autochart live feature have really changed the way I fish. I now have the best maps I have personally seen for my area and have caught a lot of fish because of it. Now I just need to upgrade to a helix ice unit so that my maps can be read without converting them on my pc first like I have to do still with my old 386c.

Offline slamber

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #28 on: Jan 16, 2019, 02:24 PM »
The Helix units will be a nice upgrade one of these days. I have a 998 on the console and a 898 on the bow. They still work well but they are definitely dated compared to the new units. For ice fishing I take the 898 off of my bow and use it on a portable setup that I put together so I can use my chips. Only down side is that it uses the battery up pretty quick.

Offline SirCranksalot

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Re: Navionics vs custom social maps
« Reply #29 on: Jan 16, 2019, 04:37 PM »
Re Navionics---I was fishing yesterday in 50-60 ft of water. Navionics was out by 6-7 ft compared to my FF. I just checked 2 locations.
Keep yer stick on the ice!

 



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