Author Topic: Why Do Minnows Die? (Read 22233 times)

Seedtree · « **on:** Jan 09, 2009, 11:35 PM »

After several weeks or so, I've noticed that my minnows start to die off in my bait tank. My tank is a large Rubbermaid type tank that I have an aerator and filter in. I change around 1/2 of the water daily or at least every other day, with tap water which has set in a cooler for a day next to the bait tank in the basement. I also give them a bit of ground up dry dog food, if they've been in the tank for more than a week (which is common, as I keep minnows for months at a time).

I've noticed a soapy/foam buildup on the top of the water when the minnows die off. I've bumped up my water change interval but still the die off continues after I've had them in there for an extended period. Any thoughts on what is going on?

I'm currently trying some ICK pills and have washed out both the bait tank and water cooler with fresh water. My charcoal filter has been changed recently - I wonder if this has something to do with the die off?

The key to me is the soapy/foam buildup. The minnows seem to really die off after that starts to show up. Any ideas as to what is going on here?

frosteespoon · « **Reply #1 on:** Jan 10, 2009, 05:32 AM »

Possibly the tap water is the source. Due to the chemicals in which they treat it. Maybe a raw water source might help with your problem.

Kevin23 · « **Reply #2 on:** Jan 10, 2009, 10:39 AM »

AMMONIA

The fish produce ammonia every time they "use the toilet" The ammonia builds up in the water and is toxic to fish.

The best way to keep this from happening is to invest in an aquarium filter. Not an air pump filter but an actual power filter. Then change out the filter cartridge every week. The filter will hold good bacteria which will eat the ammonia in the water.

Ever wonder what that pond scum stuff is? That's the good bacteria eating the ammonia in the lake.

If you have any questions feel free to pm me.

Source: 10 years of tropical fish breeding knowledge.

Tainterslayer · « **Reply #3 on:** Jan 10, 2009, 03:04 PM »

I would suggest changing the food and giving them a variety of foods.

Kevin23 · « **Reply #4 on:** Jan 10, 2009, 04:54 PM »

Chances are its not the food. Fish can go well over 2 weeks (actually close to 4) without eating. Even longer in the winter.

Seedtree · « **Reply #5 on:** Jan 10, 2009, 08:05 PM »

I let the tap water sit in an open cooler for 24 hours or so to evaporate any chemicals like flouride or chlorine, and also to adjust the temp to the bait tank water. After 24 hours, those chemicals should have evaporated right?

I'll try some bread crumbs. Maybe the dog food (a premium dry food from Costco) is too hot for the fish to eat.

I do have a filter that circulates the water thru a carbon-filter insert that the manual suggests to change every 30 days, which I do. Is this a "power filter", if not what is that?

Other than that, I have a Wallyworld aerator and stone in the Rubbermaid container which has approximately 25 gallons of water in it. I've also placed a liter-sized plastic water bottle which is opened on both ends, held down by a small river rock, to provide some "cover" for the minnows to rest or hide out in.

After a complete water change and ICK treatment, still had 6 or so dead minnows today. Down to around 2 dozen 4 inch of so minnows.

I've also got some loose carbon pellets from a aquarium kit, should I sprinkly some of these in too?

This is a serious issue for me as I live a long way from a bait shop that sells live minnows.

Your input is appreciated.

fatboy8 · « **Reply #6 on:** Jan 10, 2009, 08:11 PM »

What you really want to buy is some tap water treatment chemicals they are extremely cheap your local pet store should have them and they also gets rid of ammonia. I have four yellow perch and when I feed them minnows I put some of this in there water and its no problem.

Seedtree · « **Reply #7 on:** Jan 10, 2009, 09:07 PM »

What is that stuff called?

fatboy8 · « **Reply #8 on:** Jan 10, 2009, 09:23 PM »

I have this stuff called Prime it removes chlorine, chloramine which is in tap water and ammonia. so its pretty much a tap water remover and water treatment thing but whenever i add water to my perch tank throw that in and everyones doing fine so give it a try the stuff is like three bucks.

pooley · « **Reply #9 on:** Jan 10, 2009, 09:28 PM »

u2 sold at cabelas. remove harmful chemicals in tap water.

tuckerdg1970 · « **Reply #10 on:** Jan 11, 2009, 05:45 PM »

Also, make sure your water temp don't get above 65 degrees. It speeds up their metabolism causing them to eat more which causes ammonia ect.. I keep 6pounds of minnows in an old 8 cu ft freezer in my basement for 2 months and never feed. if the water feels warm take a bucket of clean snow and dump it in. I never have problems.

Seedtree · « **Reply #11 on:** Jan 11, 2009, 07:50 PM »

Thanks for the help,

It seems that the biggest mistake I am making is feeding the minnows dry dog food.

Going to try some bread crumbs. Can't see not feeding them as I often keep them for a month or two, due to the lack of local live bait sources.

tuckerdg1970 · « **Reply #12 on:** Jan 11, 2009, 07:57 PM »

I talked to my supplier who is a wholesaler. Dog food is good but u need to run it through a blender and only put alittle in. She told me for the size tank I have and the amount of minnows 1 or 2 pinches every 3 weeks if needed. if needed means if they are dying off for no reason. If you keep the water cold enough you shouldn't have to feed them.

pooley · « **Reply #13 on:** Jan 11, 2009, 08:17 PM »

feed them only what they eat in 1 minute.

cabelas, search water treatment-look for u2

DasRottweiler · « **Reply #14 on:** Jun 21, 2009, 04:12 PM »

The foam scum on the top of the water ,clinging to the sides of the tank is an indicator that the water has lost its ability to hold oxygen. Sounds like you don`t have enough aeration for the size of the tank or more importantly , the amount of minnows you are trying to keep. The water treatments are a must , I use Finer Shiner or BetterBait (same stuff yer bait shops use) . It is still important to change out water and make sure it is treated as well. So basically , up yer aeration using a long stik airstone and a cheap air pump and change 1/4-1/3 of the water often while using sum form of chlorine removing water treatment.

polarfisher · « **Reply #15 on:** Jun 25, 2009, 10:15 PM »

Like every one said water water water is everthing. The little magic solution every one is talking about is called tapwater conditioner, it takes out all chemicals, metals and helps create a slime coating which helps protect the fish from diseases. Another part of the water thing is a stable environment, changing 1/2 of the water every other day or sooo is bad because the nitrifying bacteria never build up. Try also using a substrate (aquarium gravel) on the bottom to help create more bacteria. The foam is because the high amount of dissolved solids (fish poo) and maybe a protein skimmer might do you good. It removes these dissolved solids before it breaks down in nitrites and nitrates. This is good no build up, no need for huge filters to hold "media" to let the bacteria grow. Yes I know for the other aquarium freaks a protein skimmer is used generally for saltwater tanks but this is because saltwater fish have little or no tolerance to these decomposition byproducts: ammonia,nitrites, and nitrates and on the other had fresh have a some what large tolerance to these up to a certain point. If you need more help or need me to explain any of this just give me a pm or post

michianafisherman · « **Reply #16 on:** Jun 26, 2009, 07:18 AM »

Do you have a water checker? You can buy test strips,or a hand held meter that will check the water for you.

Mainehazmt · « **Reply #17 on:** Jun 26, 2009, 09:31 AM »

go to your local big box walmart and get pond test strips they work easy and are fairly cheap you can also get the water treatment there too I bought bunches of it in the fall of the year when they mark all the pond stuff down as for food get some pond flake food fairly cheap as for air you can almost never have enough even in my cystern tank i run 2 air stones this is because water out of the ground usually has a low o2 content (DO) disolved oxygen Water temp is important too right now mine is averaging 40 - 42* and 35 in dead of winter Also first few batches of minnows in a new tank alot die off you need to build the benificial bacteria up in the tank consider the first few batches marters for your continued minnow growth!

polarfisher · « **Reply #18 on:** Jun 26, 2009, 10:42 AM »

Nice, yea its called new tank syndrome its a common occurrence with new fish tanks with high levels of fish. your need to gradually increase the levels not just dump like half the tanks capacity all at once.

1MOFISH · « **Reply #19 on:** Sep 13, 2009, 07:36 PM »

Quote from: polarfisher on Jun 25, 2009, 10:15 PM

Like every one said water water water is everthing. The little magic solution every one is talking about is called tapwater conditioner, it takes out all chemicals, metals and helps create a slime coating which helps protect the fish from diseases. Another part of the water thing is a stable environment, changing 1/2 of the water every other day or sooo is bad because the nitrifying bacteria never build up. Try also using a substrate (aquarium gravel) on the bottom to help create more bacteria. The foam is because the high amount of dissolved solids (fish poo) and maybe a protein skimmer might do you good. It removes these dissolved solids before it breaks down in nitrites and nitrates. This is good no build up, no need for huge filters to hold "media" to let the bacteria grow. Yes I know for the other aquarium freaks a protein skimmer is used generally for saltwater tanks but this is because saltwater fish have little or no tolerance to these decomposition byproducts: ammonia,nitrites, and nitrates and on the other had fresh have a some what large tolerance to these up to a certain point. If you need more help or need me to explain any of this just give me a pm or post

is there a better substrate material to use i prefilter and move water to a post filter and let it aireate and tumble back in to 3oo gallon tank want to use all methods to keep minnows alive thankx MO

jayswimmer09 · « **Reply #20 on:** Sep 14, 2009, 01:46 PM »

ive seen these posts in the past, and this is the best info i have recieved yet, thanx guys!

vashe · « **Reply #21 on:** Sep 16, 2009, 10:21 PM »

The foam is more then likey the treatment you are useing to treat illness. If you are useing a filter you need to make sure you do not have any carbon in it cause that will absorb all the treatment stuff you use.
People say the carbon should be taken out of the filter cause it does something to the minnows and kills them but I will try this to. I have a 35 gallon and my minnows are dying off to . Next day i found 4 dozen bricked up around the intake of the filter. Im going to try and take the carbon out this time and see if that helps and I will let you know. Carbon is just there to absorb the odors anyways.

My tank is cycled and i test it every 4 days and ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and my nitrates are at 25 PPM so I really dont get why my minnows are dying off. So i will try the takeing out the carbon when i get another 7 dozen from my fish shop since its closeing down on the 20th of this month.

I will keep you all informed.

Forgot to say... I also keep chubs in there and those guys are fine. They have been in there for about 5 weeks now. So dont get why the minnows are the only ones getting off'ed lol

1MOFISH · « **Reply #22 on:** Sep 19, 2009, 01:51 PM »

Quote from: vashe on Sep 16, 2009, 10:21 PM

The foam is more then likey the treatment you are useing to treat illness. If you are useing a filter you need to make sure you do not have any carbon in it cause that will absorb all the treatment stuff you use.
People say the carbon should be taken out of the filter cause it does something to the minnows and kills them but I will try this to. I have a 35 gallon and my minnows are dying off to . Next day i found 4 dozen bricked up around the intake of the filter. Im going to try and take the carbon out this time and see if that helps and I will let you know. Carbon is just there to absorb the odors anyways.

My tank is cycled and i test it every 4 days and ammonia and nitrites are at 0 and my nitrates are at 25 PPM so I really dont get why my minnows are dying off. So i will try the takeing out the carbon when i get another 7 dozen from my fish shop since its closeing down on the 20th of this month.

I will keep you all informed.

Forgot to say... I also keep chubs in there and those guys are fine. They have been in there for about 5 weeks now. So dont get why the minnows are the only ones getting off'ed lol

my guess you are gettin old bait? they have to be at least a month old they are already stressed addin them to your tank streesed them out mo

vashe · « **Reply #23 on:** Sep 23, 2009, 11:43 PM »

Well so far so good i have had 6 die on me since i got them on the 17th and the past 3 days none died so I guess takeing out the carbon is working out. You all try it and let me know if u had success with no carbon.

WHITETAIL111 · « **Reply #24 on:** Oct 04, 2009, 12:06 AM »

I have carbon filtration on mine and it seems to be working ok on my new 35 gallon set up. I'm afraid to add more baits(36 in there now) in fear that it may go south. Not sue how many 4-8" baits this size tank can hold before all the waste in the tank will affect the fish. Anyone have any opinions?

vashe · « **Reply #25 on:** Oct 06, 2009, 03:23 PM »

Quote from: WHITETAIL111 on Oct 04, 2009, 12:06 AM

I'm afraid to add more baits(36 in there now) in fear that it may go south. Not sue how many 4-8" baits this size tank can hold before all the waste in the tank will affect the fish. Anyone have any opinions?

as long as you have heavy filtration (something that can filter out 3 times more then the tank size. So example would be if u have a 30 gallon then you want something that can filter out a 100 gallon tank and up.Could look into a good powerhead over alot of bubblers. and cycled your tank and you can stick more.
Just need to change 35 percent water out every 1 to 2 weeks.
But to anwser you question in a cycled tank usually 3 to 6 weeks. As long as you do the water changes then you wont have to worry about them getting affected.

In a cycled tank when the fish produces waste it gives off ammonia (Which is lethal to fish). Then the bacteria that eats the ammonia, its waste turns it to nitRITES (which is also lethal to fish). Then the bacteria that eats the nitRITES its waste turns it into nitRATES which is not lethal to fish (only in high numbers). read up on the nitrogen cycle and it will open up a whole new understanding on fish and baitfish.

Yah I would recommend getting a test kit for ammonia,nitRITES and nitRATES. Get the liquid testers cause the strips are crap. You will spend 20 bucks or so on all 3 total but you can use them like 180 times so it will last you for a long time. That way you can test the water once a week to see if you need to change the water or not.

Well guys found out why my minnows were dying off quick. It wasnt the carbon but I am stupid and forget to aclimate them slowly to the water temps they are going in. The bait stores usually have the water at 36 degrees and my water temp was around 68 so yah they stressed out and died off quick. I put in a new batch of like 6 dozen about 5 days ago and maybe 3 died off. I also have like 3 to 4 dozen chubs in there as well. but those have been in there for like 5 to 6 weeks.

My set up if you all are wondering.
35 gallon HeavyDuty Trashcan.
10 pounds of gravel.

110 AquaClear Filter (This is probally the most expensive thing in the setup since you will be over crowding you Tank for the Fall and winter months). 60 to 100 bucks
1 Dual Bubbler 10 to 20 bucks.
402 PowerHead 20 to 50 bucks.
Eggcrate for ceilings as the cover. You can buy this at Lowes or Home Depot.7 to 10 bucks.

I didnt have a chance to get a cheap 55 gallon aquarium in time so this was the backup plan. lol

Look on craigslist for aquarium set up and you can usually get a good deal. Just make sure they fill the tank up before you take it home cause it could have a leak.

WHITETAIL111 · « **Reply #26 on:** Oct 07, 2009, 09:01 AM »

Great info there Vashe....I've only got like a 20 gallon filter with an aeration bubbler at the bottom for this 35 gallon set up. I'm working on a 200 gallon tank my buddy is getting me...but I don't have it yet and I just put another 36 baits in it last night. I peek in on them every day and they seem to be doing fine. I have an old cooler that probably holds about 12 gallons of water that I fill with tap water, leave open to the air right next to the tank for a week, and once a week I use a siphon to siphon the crap off the bottom/remove the old water and add the new water to the tank. I put a capful of the chlorine remover into the cooler water prior to adding it to my tank. It is like doing a 1/3 water change with the benefit of removing waste from the bottom from the fish. Seems to be working for now.

Question: How often do you change or replace the carbon in the filter bag and how often should I replace the whole bag and carbon filter combined. As I understand it the microorganisms that build up on that filter are partially why the tank stays the way it does....ie clean and free from ammonia....nitrites... .and nitrates. So in fear of ruining a good thing, I just don't want to not fix what isn't broke. Is there a timeframe at which these filters get changed. Thanks guys.

1MOFISH · « **Reply #27 on:** Oct 08, 2009, 11:04 AM »

i was thinkin of runnin my water through a hydropondics setup to remove the nitrates can grow salad with my bait im on a diet gettin ready for ice lol mo

WHITETAIL111 · « **Reply #28 on:** Oct 08, 2009, 01:11 PM »

My bait tank fell through. I thought it was a clean tank, but the tank when opened had some oil residue in it...like....motor oil like residue. Anyone know of a way to clean a tank like that? If small ppm of chlorine will kill your bait I can't exactly have the tank look like and Exxon Valdiz episode in the tank.

MoreTroutPls · « **Reply #29 on:** Oct 08, 2009, 02:18 PM »

Quote from: WHITETAIL111 on Oct 08, 2009, 01:11 PM

My bait tank fell through. I thought it was a clean tank, but the tank when opened had some oil residue in it...like....motor oil like residue. Anyone know of a way to clean a tank like that? If small ppm of chlorine will kill your bait I can't exactly have the tank look like and Exxon Valdiz episode in the tank.

Take it to a self service high pressure car wash. Wash it thoroughly a few times and rinse it well or get it steam cleaned. Fill it with clean water, check for floating oil or oil sheen. If clear, add the chemicals to neutralize chlorine, etc,. and let it soak for a few days and recheck for oil/sheen. Repeat cleaning as needed.

Good luck.

News:

Author Topic: Why Do Minnows Die? (Read 22233 times)