Flasher just to clarifiy

[wallydiven]

To much info here. Learn for yourself just like everyone else did. I cant explain it any better than the next person did other than first hand use. good luck

[Bullelk34]

I don't believe that for a second. Using one for so long I've learned to believe it, and it's not lilke they always appear from below either.

[snuffcan]

 The arc is easier to see on a graph. I use an x67 in graph mode, and the only things that leave a flat, horizontal trace are stationary objects like a jig or a suspended fish that is hovering in one spot. A fish that is moving thru the cone leaves an arc shaped trace that begins as a thin series of black dots then a black line ,then slowly widens and begins to change to yellow or red then narrows back to black dots. The widest, most colorful part of the trace is the top of the arc. And even though it looks arc shaped on the screen, the fish actually did swim straight thru at the same depth. If a fish and a jig are at the same depth the trace of the fish blends together with the jig trace. I do think however that at times you will see fish move up after a jig that actually are moving up because the trace made by the fish is much steeper. I believe the opinion of Jiginpig on this is correct.

[UP jigstick]

jigginPig described in words exactly what the poster above him showed with a picture. A fish/target swimming into the sonar cone at the same depth will increase in signal strength and appear to rise in depth as it approaches the center of the cone.

[SEF830]

jigginPig described in words exactly what the poster above him showed with a picture. A fish/target swimming into the sonar cone at the same depth will increase in signal strength and appear to rise in depth as it approaches the center of the cone.

I agree.  I think we can also agree that that a red signal at 10 feet is a fish at 10 feet.  A red mark coming off the bottom to take my jig is, in fact, a fish coming off the bottom to take my jig.  Right??

[jigginPig]

right

[The Beachcomber]

I love the picture, 1st prize for sure!  Fish are happy too, excellent!

[The Beachcomber]

HERE BOYS QUIT FIGHTING haha (Image removed from quote.)

There you go!  Thanks for clearing this up, it was getting crazy!

[Hooligan]

Glad the signal strength thing was posted.  I was just about to get the same thing and the camera.
A fish coming from under on the flasher is coming from under.  A fish from outside the center of the cone moving inward increases in signal strength, creating a stronger and stronger signal.

[wallydiven]

Glad the signal strength thing was posted.  I was just about to get the same thing and the camera.
A fish coming from under on the flasher is coming from under.  A fish from outside the center of the cone moving inward increases in signal strength, creating a stronger and stronger signal.

  BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rembrandt]

With the flasher picture, really how much bottom coverage can you have at 11.5 feet. I total agree in deep water but shallow water lets say less than 10' all three fish will be under your hole if you ask me and within an inch or two of straight down depth. When it shows there coming up there coming up not swimming into the center of the cone angle.

[UP jigstick]

I agree.  I think we can also agree that that a red signal at 10 feet is a fish at 10 feet.  A red mark coming off the bottom to take my jig is, in fact, a fish coming off the bottom to take my jig.  Right??

Right and the red signal fish swimming vertically towards a jig will have gone through the same color changes as the fish higher up in the water column as it will have most likely swum in from the edge of the sonar cone at some point.

[Nam 69]

WHEN I see them on me flasher I dont care if they are coming from the bottom or to the right or left. Just as long he ends up on my hook. If I am marking fish and one is by my lure I stop watching the screen cause its time to set the hook, I am watching the rod tip at this time

[UP jigstick]

Glad the signal strength thing was posted.  I was just about to get the same thing and the camera.
A fish coming from under on the flasher is coming from under.  A fish from outside the center of the cone moving inward increases in signal strength, creating a stronger and stronger signal.

The fish from outside the sonar cone also appears to rise vertically as it swims toward the center or the cone.

[Uplandhuntr]

Glad the signal strength thing was posted.  I was just about to get the same thing and the camera.
A fish coming from under on the flasher is coming from under.  A fish from outside the center of the cone moving inward increases in signal strength, creating a stronger and stronger signal.

I concur.....

[Hooligan]

The fish from outside the sonar cone also appears to rise vertically as it swims toward the center or the cone.

Right, so what was the original argument?

[SISIF]

Glad the signal strength thing was posted.  I was just about to get the same thing and the camera.
A fish coming from under on the flasher is coming from under.  A fish from outside the center of the cone moving inward increases in signal strength, creating a stronger and stronger signal.

Nope. Often yes, but that's not necessarily. Take a look at that vex picture again. If I've got my jig at 8ft and a fish comes juuust into the cone at the exact same level, the flasher reads it as a little bit further (Therefor shows it UNDER the jig.) That fish can then continue towards the jig and center of cone, making the path to it shorter for the same reason that the path to the jig is shorter. BUT this won't be too dramatic of a gap between the two. IF the fish is at full strength signal and appears below your jig, then it really is below your jig.

The OP is right, I just didn't see what he was saying at first, but that vex pic confirms it. And it's perfect that it works this way otherwise like the OP said, your jig mark would get consumed by the fish mark even if the fish was a few feet beside it.

[Hooligan]

I see the disagreement now, after re-reading.  Let me rephrase this so that I'm more clear.
A signal that starts strong and stays strong is rising, a signal that starts weak and gets strong could be below and rising, but most likely is in the outer cone moving inward.
I guess I'd always thought about it this way.  What I was saying is that I'm in agreement with the OP and the Vex picture backs it up.

[jeffro9023]

my brain hurts ..........

[UP jigstick]

I suppose I should not toss in the variable of signal return strength, green to red, between say a 4" perch and a 18"  bass just inside the edge of the sonar cone.    Ok, ok that's enough pot stirring for this morning.

[eriksat1]

This wasn't meant to be a brain teaser, it is just so simple, I don't know any other way to explain than that last picture. And this was about flashers not lcd graphs with moving screens. Take a piece of sting and tie to something 10' high and pinch it with your thumb and fore finger straight under it at the floor (your jig), now go off to the side still at the floor but 5 feet over to the side and see how much more string you need to reach the floor (a fish coming in at the same depth). That fish at the same depth 5feet over from center will show up at about 2 feet below your jig. I didn't say fish never come up from under, but most of the time they are just swimming in toward the jig from the edge of the cone beam and look like they are coming from under it. Ok I'm done trying to help others learn how a flasher really works, like I said earlier try it during open water, put a jig directly under the transducer and put a fish size sinking object on line off a long fishing pole and at the same depth as the jig move it in towards the jig from the side say 5 feet over and watch what happens on your flasher. The reason I'm saying this is before I learned what was really going on down there I would see a fish come in from the side it looks lower so then I would lower my jig to what I thought was the same depth, but what happened I dropped it down 2 feet now below the fish and the fish lost interest.

[Uplandhuntr]

This wasn't meant to be a brain teaser, it is just so simple, I don't know any other way to explain than that last picture. And this was about flashers not lcd graphs with moving screens. Take a piece of sting and tie to something 10' high and pinch it with your thumb and fore finger straight under it at the floor (your jig), now go off to the side still at the floor but 5 feet over to the side and see how much more string you need to reach the floor (a fish coming in at the same depth). That fish at the same depth 5feet over from center will show up at about 2 feet below your jig. I didn't say fish never come up from under, but most of the time they are just swimming in toward the jig from the edge of the cone beam and look like they are coming from under it. Ok I'm done trying to help others learn how a flasher really works, like I said earlier try it during open water, put a jig directly under the transducer and put a fish size sinking object on line off a long fishing pole and at the same depth as the jig move it in towards the jig from the side say 5 feet over and watch what happens on your flasher. The reason I'm saying this is before I learned what was really going on down there I would see a fish come in from the side it looks lower so then I would lower my jig to what I thought was the same depth, but what happened I dropped it down 2 feet now below the fish and the fish lost interest.

Seems simple.....Let's use your example of 10 feet (although I don't think it matters how deep you are).  I have seen somewhere how wide your cone is at certain depths, but lets assume in 10 feet of water it is a foot or less from the outside of the cone to the middle.

If you convert that 12 inches of horizontal distance into vertical distance, lets assume an inch or two in depth from the outside of the cone to the middle using your string.

At the speed the signal is traveling in water over a distance of a couple of inches, there is no way you are going to convince me that what your eyes will see is a fish rising in the water column.  My contention is that the signal is traveling so fast through the water that you wouldn't be able to discern any difference whatsoever, let alone be a 2 foot difference as in your example.

Just my final thought on the subject.....wouldn't it be cool to actually have someone from Vex explain it for us??  

[eriksat1]

Using 10 foot deep was a bad example. My LX-5 has a 20° cone for shallow use. At 20 feet deep the cone would be 6-1/2 foot dia.

[Fishrmn]

This wasn't meant to be a brain teaser, it is just so simple, I don't know any other way to explain than that last picture. And this was about flashers not lcd graphs with moving screens. Take a piece of sting and tie to something 10' high and pinch it with your thumb and fore finger straight under it at the floor (your jig), now go off to the side still at the floor but 5 feet over to the side and see how much more string you need to reach the floor (a fish coming in at the same depth). That fish at the same depth 5feet over from center will show up at about 2 feet below your jig. I didn't say fish never come up from under, but most of the time they are just swimming in toward the jig from the edge of the cone beam and look like they are coming from under it. Ok I'm done trying to help others learn how a flasher really works, like I said earlier try it during open water, put a jig directly under the transducer and put a fish size sinking object on line off a long fishing pole and at the same depth as the jig move it in towards the jig from the side say 5 feet over and watch what happens on your flasher. The reason I'm saying this is before I learned what was really going on down there I would see a fish come in from the side it looks lower so then I would lower my jig to what I thought was the same depth, but what happened I dropped it down 2 feet now below the fish and the fish lost interest.

Absolutely correct!    

Fishrmn

[eriksat1]

Just study that picture by Jiginpig on page 2, that is an actual picture from Vexilar.
All 3 fish in the picture are at the same depth and are the same size fish, if that outside fish swam in to the center of the cone it would appear to be rising up from below, plus it would change color.

[jigginPig]

this has been a great ride! I thought my pic would settle this! It is right from the box my fl22 came in.I think that is as good as it gets.
Pig

[jigginPig]

And nobody said that fish don't come straight off the bottom because they do, sometimes. If you pay attention to your electronics they will tell you soooo much of what's going on down there. I hope some guys learn from this thread and become even more efficient with their equip. That's why I believe this thread was started, to help, not hurt anyones feelings!

[UP jigstick]

eriksat1.........I do believe you have reached the point of no return.



Might be time to consider this thread a lost cause.

jigginPig.....yer preachin to da choir, eh.  

[Uplandhuntr]

So I can't stir the pot one more time??   

This isn't as fun as it used to be.....you guys give up too easily.....

I'm going fishing.....

[UP jigstick]

'ave at'er upland. A good pot stirrin can be great fun! It took me a heck of a lot of hours on the ice to fully understand the nuggets of truth exposed in this thread, for everyone to see and understand. O'course being the slooow learner that I is didn't help much either.  
 
I agree it would be pretty cool to get someone from Vex or Marcum involved in this discussion.