limit on bulegll

[wax_worm]

The winter is when most use electronic flashers and the fish are harder for most to catch...In the summer sure the fish are easier to catch but most guys i know do not fish panfish in the summer. Mainly because of increased costs.... you have the cost of a boat and electronics such as a 360 setup, then gas, insurance, and whatever other expenses.  Not many can afford setups like that for pan fishing and the ones that can bass fish. The amish do not have 30k rigs to fish out of so really the only time the fish are vulnerable is spawn. Put a limit during the spawn and leave the rest of the season alone.


I know you fish bass tournaments and are use to fishing with guys that have high dollar rigs with thousands in electronics. You guys do not target anything but bass 99% of the time. I know because I use to strictly be all about bass fishing. However 99% of all guys that target panfish have small boats with very primitive electronics around here. When Stinky and I go vertical jigging, 1 out of a 100 boats is equipped with the electronics he has. If panfish fishing had the same anglers that fish bass during the open water, then yes I would be worried.

So no I do not see electronics causing any issue with panfish populations in Indiana during any part of the season.

Well now I see why you have said what you did, but I don't see that same thing going on in the lakes I fish.  Yes I see amish on the beds raping them, but I also see lots of guys in nice aluminum boats with electronics (not SI or 360), that catch a lot of suspended fish.  You don't need a fancy rig to catch fish.  I fished for gills 3 times last summer.  I went out in a pontoon with no electronics, anchored up in an area we know schools of gills frequent over deep water and caught 62, 68, and 68 with my mom in those 3 outings that lasted about 3 hours each.  As SI drops in price more will buy them if they think it will increase the catch.  360 will be available thru the ice in the next 5 years and it won't cost 1000's either.  That will change the game on the ice too.  Nothing wrong with the DNR trying to stay ahead of the curve.  Limiting someone to 25 gills should not be an issue for those that are able to find fish.  There are plenty of crappie and perch to chase once you have your 25.  It works just fine elsewhere, yet some still think lakes are going to stunt because of it.  It does not work that way.

[Hoosier]

I haven't read every post. Most do have some good points and should be brought up. Make sure you read the post I stickied at the top with dates of DNR Meetings.

[Fishslayer81]

Well now I see why you have said what you did, but I don't see that same thing going on in the lakes I fish.  Yes I see amish on the beds raping them, but I also see lots of guys in nice aluminum boats with electronics (not SI or 360), that catch a lot of suspended fish.  You don't need a fancy rig to catch fish.  I fished for gills 3 times last summer.  I went out in a pontoon with no electronics, anchored up in an area we know schools of gills frequent over deep water and caught 62, 68, and 68 with my mom in those 3 outings that lasted about 3 hours each.  As SI drops in price more will buy them if they think it will increase the catch.  360 will be available thru the ice in the next 5 years and it won't cost 1000's either.  That will change the game on the ice too.  Nothing wrong with the DNR trying to stay ahead of the curve.  Limiting someone to 25 gills should not be an issue for those that are able to find fish.  There are plenty of crappie and perch to chase once you have your 25.  It works just fine elsewhere, yet some still think lakes are going to stunt because of it.  It does not work that way.

You went to a spot that you know holds fish from past experience...completel y different. Going and finding suspended fish on various bodies of water is different and you need good electronics to find them. You also are in the 10% of anglers that catch fish. most do not go out and catch 62, 68, and 68 in 3 outings let alone a season and if they do it is normally during spawn.  I take enough fish from the spots to know that it is not hurting a thing. Fishing is on the decline...less licenses are being sold, so the entire electronics debate is still moot because there is less anglers on the water anyway. so even if a certain percentage buys the electronics it's not going to do any significant damage.  We can each find angles to support our theory till we are blue in the face. The difference here is some look at the glass being half full the others look at it being half empty.

[wax_worm]

You went to a spot that you know holds fish from past experience...completel y different. Going and finding suspended fish on various bodies of water is different and you need good electronics to find them. You also are in the 10% of anglers that catch fish. most do not go out and catch 62, 68, and 68 in 3 outings let alone a season and if they do it is normally during spawn.  I take enough fish from the spots to know that it is not hurting a thing. Fishing is on the decline...less licenses are being sold, so the entire electronics debate is still moot because there is less anglers on the water anyway. so even if a certain percentage buys the electronics it's not going to do any significant damage.  We can each find angles to support our theory till we are blue in the face. The difference here is some look at the glass being half full the others look at it being half empty.

Yes I knew of the area as it has held fish there for 40+ years, but with today's electronics, one drive by with side imaging and anyone could find that area on the lake and see the schools of fish.  It is just infinitely easier to find fish today than it was in the past.  Heck hummingbird now has technology that when fishing you can hit a button and the finder will highlight other areas on the lake with the same structure, depth, contour, etc....It basically tells you where to look to establish a pattern on any given BOW.

I am not a glass half empty person.  I will catch fish limit or not.   I would be happy if they found a way to protect the gills during the spawn and then left it as is the rest of the year.  There are fish to be caught, but I also know that limits on gills DO NOT cause the size structure in a lake to decline unless something else is out of whack like to much spawning area, too many weeds, lack of natural predators (8-14" bass, crappies, perch, pike, etc.).  If it did there would be no lakes in Michigan and Minn worth a crap and the reality is the opposite.  The Michigan lakes are full of very large panfish.  Crappies have a limit on them and yet their size does not diminish due to the limit.  The same will hold true for gills.

As for less licenses and electronics, I liken that to using rocks as a weapon vs. a machine gun.  You can have 100 guys throwing rocks doing little damage, but one guy with a machine gun can wreck havoc.  So less fishermen on the water than 10,20 or 30 years ago does not mean much to me, because with today's tools one person can do the 'damage' of 10 to 20 in years past.

[river_scum]

some day google earth will have a fish finder tool.  you will be able to bring up a lake , zoom in, and see the schools of fish swimming around, in real time.  then you can make the call to go fishing or not, by the way the fish are spread out.  heck then you could target the biggest musky in the lake like a tracking devise.  fallow him around and cast at him. but it wouldnt be long till he would be gone. so technology is to blame when technology cant find fish you, hum.
 i sure hope im dead by then.  just not the same as learning to catch fish by understanding, where or why they are where they are.  no more thoughts of depth and weeather patterns to guess where the fish are.  i dont think that would be fun for very long.

time will tell if regs change.  just seems odd to not test regs. on a few select waters.  making a sweeping change with every kind of lake type there is, is ignorant imo.  what works on tippy as regs cant work equally well on say bixler lk.  as with most gov. decisions i it will probably make us scratch our head in disbelief. lol     

[bldfrt]

I haven't read every post. Most do have some good points and should be brought up. Make sure you read the post I stickied at the top with dates of DNR Meetings.

I didn't see dates. they could be there and I suffer from post blindness

[Stinkybaits]

Yes I knew of the area as it has held fish there for 40+ years, but with today's electronics, one drive by with side imaging and anyone could find that area on the lake and see the schools of fish.  It is just infinitely easier to find fish today than it was in the past.  Heck hummingbird now has technology that when fishing you can hit a button and the finder will highlight other areas on the lake with the same structure, depth, contour, etc....It basically tells you where to look to establish a pattern on any given BOW.

I am not a glass half empty person.  I will catch fish limit or not.   I would be happy if they found a way to protect the gills during the spawn and then left it as is the rest of the year.  There are fish to be caught, but I also know that limits on gills DO NOT cause the size structure in a lake to decline unless something else is out of whack like to much spawning area, too many weeds, lack of natural predators (8-14" bass, crappies, perch, pike, etc.).  If it did there would be no lakes in Michigan and Minn worth a crap and the reality is the opposite.  The Michigan lakes are full of very large panfish.  Crappies have a limit on them and yet their size does not diminish due to the limit.  The same will hold true for gills.

As for less licenses and electronics, I liken that to using rocks as a weapon vs. a machine gun.  You can have 100 guys throwing rocks doing little damage, but one guy with a machine gun can wreck havoc.  So less fishermen on the water than 10,20 or 30 years ago does not mean much to me, because with today's tools one person can do the 'damage' of 10 to 20 in years past.

Again your assuming everyone can catch fish when they cant. I've caught just as many fish with electronics than without in the summertime just drifting using setups like Bos Bluegill Busters just drifting around. Electronics through the ice has definetely helped but as I've stated earlier 20 guys all with electronics marking fish and only 2 catching. Michigan is Michigan I'm still not impressed with their size I'd say limits did nothing for the quality of size of fish  It's lake specific like you've stated and is dependent on many other factors besides limits. Wawasee produces huge harvests every year and there's nothing wrong with the quality of fish it produces. If it's not broke don't fix it. Again most are looking for excuses because it's been a tough bite they can't catch fish because there's no fish to be had. They goto the same spots time and time again that grandpa showed them or a buddy told them about. How many actually go out and look for untapped spots? Not many because it's a half a mile or longer walk or it requires drilling 300 plus holes. The spots I fished years ago only a couple are still the same because the structure is the same and the area still produces food for the fish to survive on. Do the fish jump up through the hole when we find them? No its been a tough bite season. We don't have just one presentation offering. If we're marking fish we can catch fish I don't care if it's bright sunny skies high pressure 20 mph plus winds. There's not many groups of fishermen that put that type of effort into searching and figuring stuff out. It's my hobby I enjoy it and it's the only thing I do in my spare time. Guys I fish with its pretty much the only thing they do in their spare time. It's just like any other sport. Just because I go out and buy a pair of Jordans doesn't mean I'm going to be dunking the ball and whooping up on the guys at the Y any time soon. I go out and buy the best clubs on the market doesn't mean I'm going out and knocking points off my game. I golf very rarely and if I do it's in a scramble and I'm just enjoying the day. There's a ton of people that go fishing just to enjoy the day if they catch a few it's the bonus. Electronics is just to see if there's fish there just like there's electronics like range finders to show how far away I am from a golf flag. I'll tell you right now that I can't pick up a club and consistently hit the ball to that distance that the range finder reads. I don't practice golf I play once every three years maybe. Fishing on the other hand. I go over 4 times a week on the average I'm guessing and everyday I'm a sponge soaking up mother nature's schooling in my spare time it's fishing videos books and dvds on aquatic insects because if I find the buffets and target the lakes rich in food and the rest of what it takes for big thick panfish then I'm upping my chances of catching quality fish. Even with Humingbird style electronics for boats that's a whole other course that needs to be studied and learned how to be used. Wax makes it sound easy. It is for him because he's used to it. Way more complicated than a flip of a switch from a vexilar. I'm a hard learn though not a computer genius by any means. I just don't see the electronics being the huge factor into catching is just another tool used in fishing the angler first has to know how to catch the fish regardless of the weather or the bite before electronics is going to help their catch rates imo.

[sprkplug]

I don't think it's because anglers are complaining about a tough bite. After all, this proposal has made the rounds for what, 4-5 years now? I also can't see the DNR instituting a policy that they know would be detrimental, just because folks were prodding them too. I think they have some data that suggests, to them anyway, that the time for instituting a limit draws near.

[Stinkybaits]

I don't think it's because anglers are complaining about a tough bite. After all, this proposal has made the rounds for what, 4-5 years now? I also can't see the DNR instituting a policy that they know would be detrimental, just because folks were prodding them too. I think they have some data that suggests, to them anyway, that the time for instituting a limit draws near.

DNR are just the policing of the laws just like Excise is the policing of the laws sure they have input but it's very little. Look at deer harvesting obviously insurance companies with big money have huge pull on decision making. I'm not saying anyone cares about panfish limits enough to pump huge amounts of money into the pockets of those creating the laws but don't think for a minute the DNR just make laws based on what is best for the environment or any species within.

[sprkplug]

DNR are just the policing of the laws just like Excise is the policing of the laws sure they have input but it's very little. Look at deer harvesting obviously insurance companies with big money have huge pull on decision making. I'm not saying anyone cares about panfish limits enough to pump huge amounts of money into the pockets of those creating the laws but don't think for a minute the DNR just make laws based on what is best for the environment or any species within.

I agree, and I also agree that special interest lobbying has no influence in the proposed panfish limit. So we're back to square one. What do they know, what info do they have, that we do not?

[Stinkybaits]

Maybe the fear of invasive species coming along? You do make a good point though. WHY? They claim electronics but that's just something to throw out there.

[sprkplug]

It would be very interesting to hear their take on the matter, and get a peek into their collective mindset. I should make an effort to either attend a meeting, or post a few queries online.

[Stinkybaits]

The only thing that Susan Glick said at the meeting I attended is they are getting blasted by the public and emails claiming that panfish are almost diminishing because they arnt catching fish like they used to. So to point the endless stream of mail to a certain area they opened the public input section instead of all their emails getting blasted with the endless sob story of I can't catch fish so that means their all gone. So through meetings they can listen to both sides of the story. I think I'll show up to so I can laugh at the excuses why they can't catch. I love comedy.  It would be like me showing up at a golf meeting against trees that line the courses because they eat my golf balls non stop. I hope a state biologist shows up with all the data and proof with shock surveys ect not just basing everything on retired old guys that live on the lakes that can't catch fish anymore because their 1930s setup doesn't work anymore. Just to lump every lake in the same basket would be a huge mistake imo. I just don't see huge fish coming out of every lake in any state that currently has limits. Again it's not just limits that create huge fish. I'd like to think Indiana be unique and try something different like no bed fishing or some type of slot limit. 25 limit people will just bump the smaller fish out and keep all the huge males off the beds. Just to impose limits like other states like Michigan I'm not impressed because everyone I talk to in Michigan say 7s to 8s are the common size and the bigger fish are 9s to 10s. I can do that in local lakes but not in every lake just like every lake in Michigan is diferent.

[wax_worm]

Again your assuming everyone can catch fish when they cant.

I am not assuming anything.  You must fish with around a bunch of idiots if they can't catch panfish in the soft water periods of the year.  You are assuming your average person can't cast a line into a school of fish he found using equipment that was not available 3 years ago?   My kids when they were 5-6 years old could cast a rod to school of gills in deep water and catch them yet you continue to claim the masses can't do this simple task.  Not buying it.

I've caught just as many fish with electronics than without in the summertime just drifting using setups like Bos Bluegill Busters just drifting around. Electronics through the ice has definetely helped but as I've stated earlier 20 guys all with electronics marking fish and only 2 catching.

  So you can catch fish just drifting around but others that may use down scanning sonar or the new technology available still won't be able to even when they know exactly how far from the boat and what depth the fish are at?  That needs more explaination as to how you can catch with no electronics, yet the majority will not be able to catch fish even when they can locate and see them real time.  You keep saying electronics don't help much.  I sent you up to D&R to buy your boat.  Go ask Randy, Tim, KVD, JVD, or Zona if side imaging and 360 imaging has changed fishing forever.  The answer will be a 100% yes.  They use it for bass, but it can be used for all types of fish and it is undeniable that it has changed bass fishing at the highest levels already and as the price comes down it will change it for all fishing.

Michigan is Michigan I'm still not impressed with their size I'd say limits did nothing for the quality of size of fish  It's lake specific like you've stated and is dependent on many other factors besides limits. Wawasee produces huge harvests every year and there's nothing wrong with the quality of fish it produces. If it's not broke don't fix it.

  If you are not impressed with MI gills, then you can't be impressed with IN gills.  Tell me again the last time you have caught gills in Michigan?     I fish there and wawasee as well as several other lakes in IN.  While wawasee does have nice fish (it should being 3000+ acres with limited access and parking),  yet most don't catch 25 9-10.5 inch fish like you can in many Michigan lakes that are 1/30th to 1/4 the size of it.  Does wawa have 10.5 inch gills.  Yes.  How often do you see them?  Maybe one or 2 a year unless you are bed fishing and find the right school of large males.  Your reference to Michigan gills is from some panfish guide near cadilac that complained he catches dinks while at the d&r winter show and monitoring the Michigan IS board for pics.   Ask the guys down here near the border or those that fish Michigan and Indiana.  Ask bramabull, fishking83, princecraft, angola jones...heck ask KVD and Zona about michigan gills.  You don't see many michigan guys fishing for gills in IN, but you see a lot of IN tags on boats panfishing in MI during the softwater season.  I wonder why that is? 

It's just like any other sport. Just because I go out and buy a pair of Jordans doesn't mean I'm going to be dunking the ball and whooping up on the guys at the Y any time soon. I go out and buy the best clubs on the market doesn't mean I'm going out and knocking points off my game. I golf very rarely and if I do it's in a scramble and I'm just enjoying the day. There's a ton of people that go fishing just to enjoy the day if they catch a few it's the bonus. Electronics is just to see if there's fish there just like there's electronics like range finders to show how far away I am from a golf flag. I'll tell you right now that I can't pick up a club and consistently hit the ball to that distance that the range finder reads. I don't practice golf I play once every three years maybe. Fishing on the other hand. I go over 4 times a week on the average I'm guessing and everyday I'm a sponge soaking up mother nature's schooling in my spare time it's fishing videos books and dvds on aquatic insects because if I find the buffets and target the lakes rich in food and the rest of what it takes for big thick panfish then I'm upping my chances of catching quality fish. Even with Humingbird style electronics for boats that's a whole other course that needs to be studied and learned how to be used. Wax makes it sound easy. It is for him because he's used to it. Way more complicated than a flip of a switch from a vexilar. I'm a hard learn though not a computer genius by any means. I just don't see the electronics being the huge factor into catching is just another tool used in fishing the angler first has to know how to catch the fish regardless of the weather or the bite before electronics is going to help their catch rates imo.

There is very little skill needed to cast a slip bobber rig into a school of suspened gills.  If my kids could do it at 6 yrs old any adult can do it too.  Your golf reference, air jordan reference are not applicable here.  You don't need any athletic skill to successfully fish for gills.  If you can cast and read you can figure out a side image fish finder.  It is not rocket science.  It is not an on/off switch either as you said, but it is not difficult to set up and read the data from the screen which shows you how far the school is from the boat, what direction, size of the school, etc.  and with a second pass, you can see if the school is moving or suspeneded in place.  Are you really trying to agrue when this technology becomes more affordable and more people have it, that the 'average joe' won't be able to catch more fish than those with no electronics or only down scanning sonar?  No one in their right mind is buying that agrument.  It just does not hold water.  The guys at D&R would laugh you right out of the building if you tried that argument on them.  You continue to hang your hat on catching gills is hard and it simply is not, especially in the warm water months.  Bluegill are by far the easiest fish to catch once you are able to locate them.  You don't need anything special to catch buckets of suspended gills once you know where they are or where they frequent.  2-4lb line, a properly weighted slip float and some crickets, wax worms, or red worms and you are golden from when the water temp hits 60 til it drops to 60.  At temps below that you simply need to downsize the hook and use smaller bait as the fish are feeding less since their metabolism slows as the water cools.

[Stinkybaits]

I'm just not buying it I see plenty of decked out boats on the lake that cone to the launch with zero fish or barely any. Sure gills will bite when the bite is on but when it's not they don't hit the average bait and bobber setup I know it and you know it. As far as pure Michigan if there's toad lakes there's toad lakes. You guys goto Michigan to chase some big crappie but those same size crappie are in Indiana. You can goto either place with ease no big deal you fish tourneys up there so you already have dual licenses. To drive to Michigan to target 25 gills makes about zero sense unless your looking for ice to fish early season or you live on the border. I haven't seen piles of 9.5s to 10s on any Michigan board. I've seen some pics posted on this board from guys going to Michigan that weren't any bigger than what I'm catching already so I just don't see the toad miracle that you think a limit creates. I talked to hundreds of people at the D&R Ice Show and got the same replies as Indiana oh we catch 8s mainly good days 9s and a few 10s. It's a tough bite though. Same story different state. Your right however guys do laugh at D&R in the rigging department at how many guys think electronics is the magic light switch as its not. It's just another tool. KVD whooped the living crap out of bass tourneys all through out Michigan obviously everyone had the same equipment so I would say skill and knowing how was his secret to winning the tourneys. You think everyone has that skill set and they don't.

[Fishslayer81]

Wax, show me pics of all the 9-10.5" + gills you or anybody else caught this year in Michigan through the Ice. I have yet to see any messes caught by anybody fishing Michigan that were nicer then what we have been catching in Indiana. I do agree there are some lakes in Michigan producing big gills but the same goes for Indiana.

[wax_worm]

I'm just not buying it I see plenty of decked out boats on the lake that cone to the launch with zero fish or barely any. Sure gills will bite when the bite is on but when it's not they don't hit the average bait and bobber setup I know it and you know it. As far as pure Michigan if there's toad lakes there's toad lakes. You guys goto Michigan to chase some big crappie but those same size crappie are in Indiana. You can goto either place with ease no big deal you fish tourneys up there so you already have dual licenses. To drive to Michigan to target 25 gills makes about zero sense unless your looking for ice to fish early season or you live on the border. I haven't seen piles of 9.5s to 10s on any Michigan board. I've seen some pics posted on this board from guys going to Michigan that weren't any bigger than what I'm catching already so I just don't see the toad miracle that you think a limit creates. I talked to hundreds of people at the D&R Ice Show and got the same replies as Indiana oh we catch 8s mainly good days 9s and a few 10s. It's a tough bite though. Same story different state. Your right however guys do laugh at D&R in the rigging department at how many guys think electronics is the magic light switch as its not. It's just another tool. KVD whooped the living crap out of bass tourneys all through out Michigan obviously everyone had the same equipment so I would say skill and knowing how was his secret to winning the tourneys. You think everyone has that skill set and they don't.

I don't base my judgment of fish sizes from a handful of blowhards at some ice show or the few on the MI board that post pics.  As far as you know those guys complaining at the D&R show are part of the same group of 'clueless' anglers you keep speaking of.  Some are looking just for food and keep the first 25 they catch and go home.  I see it alot in michigan.  Guys catching 7 inch fish and keep them and in an hour they are going home with a limit of what they want to clean and eat.  If they post that catch online and you see it, you make your judgement off that?  I base my views on what I have actually seen caught in Michigan for the last 35 years.  So we will have to agree to disagree on that.  I do agree that is does not make sense to drive to Michigan from Ft wayne to catch 25 fish even if they were all 11".  Same reason I don't try to perch fish in lake Michigan in Indiana waters.  15 perch is not worth the gas money to get there and back. 

As for KVD, he got his arse handed to him this past year by his peers.  He did not make the classic and neither did JVD.  However, comparing those 2 to the weekend bass angler and expecting the weekender to beat them is a stretch.  Their job is bass fishing.  They spend countless hours on it vs the weekend guy that works a 40 hour week doing something besides fishing.  If KVD enters a local jackpot event in Michigan, he is exepected to win.  It is like a MLB pitcher throwing against a HS team.  The MLB pitcher is likely to toss a no hitter even though both teams are playing with the same equipment.  The D&R guys are laughing at the bass guys that can't compete before the new technology and the won't compete after spending the cash on a unit.  If you were not competive in tournaments without SI then you won't be competitive with it.  If you require SI to find bass on our local lakes then you have no business competing for money.  What the new units do for the person that has a clue, is vastly quicken the seach and pinpoint targets without having to drive right over them.   However, lets not confuse tournament bass fishing with fishing for 25 gills to eat.  They are completly different 'animals' where one you are looking for 5 big bites and the other you are looking for quantity and one is artificial lures only and the other is anything goes.  There are also about 100 gills to each bass in the lakes.   We can agree there are different skill sets amoung anglers but its not black and white where there are only 2 groups as you try to paint it.  It is not just those that know and those that are clueless.  The vast majority are somewhere in between and I don't see the numbers of guys coming in empty handed with either no electronics or only down looking sonar.  When bass fishing we see guys catching gills almost at will all the time from john boats, pontoons, bass boats and everything in between.

You can't argue the fact that if you are not near fish you can't catch fish right?  And you also agree the new electronics are a 'tool' (your words).  If that tool makes it infiitely easier to find fish (it does), then even the lower skilled tier of anglers has a much greater chance of success than before they were available.  Catching gills in the warm water months is 95% about locating them and 5% skill.  I think the DNR sees it the same way I do.  I think they give most adults enough credit that if they had the technology available, then the panfish poplulation is at a greater 'risk' than it was just 4 years ago as suspended gills are not hard to catch in the warm water months.

[wax_worm]

Wax, show me pics of all the 9-10.5" + gills you or anybody else caught this year in Michigan through the Ice. I have yet to see any messes caught by anybody fishing Michigan that were nicer then what we have been catching in Indiana. I do agree there are some lakes in Michigan producing big gills but the same goes for Indiana.

Not sure what 'thru the ice' has to do with anything.  The limit being proposed is year round not just for ice season when the fish are eating the least they eat all year.  It is a moot point.. I could put up a dozen or more pics of gills that size (already have they are in my past posts)and it won't change your mind.  You have made your mind up without ever fishing for gills in Michigan, so nothing I put up now is going to change that kind of thought process.  I haven't lied to you guys about anythig before, why would I lie about this?  I have nothing to gain and I don't care if IN puts the limit on or not.  It won't change how I fish for gills.  The only reason MI was brought up is to counter the argument that lakes will stunt because of a limit.  Michigan has had the limit for 30+ years and the same lakes my grandpa used to catch big thick fat gills, still produce the same sized fish today.  The limit does not change anything about where you fish.  If you are happy with what you are catching thats great, the limit won't cause the size to go down.  You can keep your 25 and then keep fishing for fun and let them go.  After all the fun in fishing is figuring them out and catching them and nothing is stopping you from contiunuing to do that when the limit goes into effect, you just can't keep as many.

This horse has been beaten to at least 2 deaths by now.

[Stinkybaits]

Lol one and two 10 inch gills amongst some pig crappie. Catch all the pig crappies we care to catch and a few 10s too so now Michigan's mystery 10s can only be caught in softwater? I thought it was loaded with them wth? Now we have to wait until soft water to see them off the beds? 

[wax_worm]

Lol one and two 10 inch gills amongst some pig crappie. Catch all the pig crappies we care to catch and a few 10s too so now Michigan's mystery 10s can only be caught in softwater? I thought it was loaded with them wth? Now we have to wait until soft water to see them off the beds? 

The pics are out there...I have already posted them in prior posts and not all are with the crappie.  I don't need to repost them when they are already on the site.  I can't make the gills swim with the crappies.  Did you want me to walk away from 14"-16" crappie to try to go mark some gills?  No one in their right mind would do that.  Lesson one in bass fishing is never leave fish to go find fish.  I guess that rubbed off on the ice up there this year.

I don't fish for panfish in the summer...I fish for bass.  If you want to see them ask fishking for pics of summer fish.  He actually fishes for them...just go to my fishfinder and look at his past posts.  Case will be closed.

[Stinkybaits]

Bah I can go bed rape a lake with big toad pigs gills in Indiana but choose not to. I've seen those pics. It's not anything I'd call impressive it's another fillet for the skillet or carcass for the garden. Even if Michigan fish were a half inch bigger or even an inch overall why would I even bother driving up there for gills? That extra inch doesn't do me any good and the best eaters are the 8s to 9s and many love the 7s to 8s that use the scaling machines. You posted pics of Michigan crappies nice fish but again Slayer myself River Scum Pole Cat Chica Angola Jones and numerous of others catch plenty of pig crappie in Indiana. Like you said why would I leave fish to go to another state to catch fish?  Pure Michigan.... I call it pure horse hockey! 

[Stinkybaits]

I think all this Michigan giant fish I hear about more of a conspiracy to sell licenses and get vacationers with all the advertising I hear....... FISHGATE! I'm calling Michigan out!!!

[RoeBoat]

Pure Michigan!

[sprkplug]

Not all anglers consider bluegills to be frying pan fare only. As such, they can be trophies in their own right, just as scarce as trophy largemouths or crappies. Choosing to believe they are just food, doesn't mean everyone thinks the same.

The state of Indiana currently considers a harvestable sized bluegill to be 6". And I'm betting there are loads of fish that size. Maybe, this talk of limits is not an attempt to produce a few trophy sized fish here and there, but rather an effort to increase the bluegill size hierarchy all across the board?

I would totally drive out of state to fish for bigger bluegills. I have, and will continue to do so. But I agree.... for me to justify doing that, they need to be far larger than what most on here consider a big, or even a trophy sized fish.

[kevs]

Never seen any one fishing for pigs and toads  , Toads are nasty and pigs don't swim. I don't see crappie having a place in this 'disagreement' due to the fact that there is a 25 fish limit on them in the Hoosier state, and people catch a lot of big crappie 16" plus. One fact remains constant, large bodies of water can sustain fishing pressure/harvest at a far greater amount than a small BOW. I know of several small lakes (under 80 acres) that have diminished populations of gills and crappies. These lakes years past had very little pressure except for locals and the Amish/Menn's. We would go during the week and/or on weekends and not encounter other people fishing. Over the past five years these same lakes so crowded we haven't been able to access because the launch site filled with rigs. Not just bobber flingers; people trolling, vertical jigging, spider rigging, and casting artificials. Have seen the same thing taking place during hard water season. I used to go and maybe see one-two other people. Past three years seeing 20+ people fishing, and they were catching fish. A blanket law that covers all is not answer, should be a lake by lake prospect.

[wax_worm]

Never seen any one fishing for pigs and toads  , Toads are nasty and pigs don't swim. I don't see crappie having a place in this 'disagreement' due to the fact that there is a 25 fish limit on them in the Hoosier state, and people catch a lot of big crappie 16" plus. One fact remains constant, large bodies of water can sustain fishing pressure/harvest at a far greater amount than a small BOW. I know of several small lakes (under 80 acres) that have diminished populations of gills and crappies. These lakes years past had very little pressure except for locals and the Amish/Menn's. We would go during the week and/or on weekends and not encounter other people fishing. Over the past five years these same lakes so crowded we haven't been able to access because the launch site filled with rigs. Not just bobber flingers; people trolling, vertical jigging, spider rigging, and casting artificials. Have seen the same thing taking place during hard water season. I used to go and maybe see one-two other people. Past three years seeing 20+ people fishing, and they were catching fish. A blanket law that covers all is not answer, should be a lake by lake prospect.

Yep...Crappie are not part of the discussion as both states have had the same limit on them for years.  While a lake by lake limit/no limit would be ideal it is not feasible to enforce and is not needed since there ZERO proof that putting a limit on gills on a lake causes the size to diminish.  There are lots of cases where fishing pressure has caused the size structure to shrink, but most of those cases are small lakes that are fished heavily.  No one is expecting trophies because of the limit, but what if the average size could be bumped by a half or full inch across the board (after a few years) because of it?  That doesn't mean there will be less eaters that Stinky and slayer seem to be worried about, but just as many or more.  Most of us fish for the enjoyment of finding fish and catching them.  So if a limit may increase avg size even slightly vs what we have today, and you can continue fishing and releasing larger fish after you get 25 eaters, it is a win win for everyone.

[wax_worm]

Bah I can go bed rape a lake with big toad pigs gills in Indiana but choose not to. I've seen those pics. It's not anything I'd call impressive it's another fillet for the skillet or carcass for the garden. Even if Michigan fish were a half inch bigger or even an inch overall why would I even bother driving up there for gills? That extra inch doesn't do me any good and the best eaters are the 8s to 9s and many love the 7s to 8s that use the scaling machines. You posted pics of Michigan crappies nice fish but again Slayer myself River Scum Pole Cat Chica Angola Jones and numerous of others catch plenty of pig crappie in Indiana. Like you said why would I leave fish to go to another state to catch fish?  Pure Michigan.... I call it pure horse hockey! 

You must have found pics that don't exist, because those fish in his posts came from 20-24 FOW and not off any beds.  Nice try though.  Not impressed with 10" gills after asking for pics?  That's ok....I told you where to find them and you dismiss them.  Pretty much what I expected since you never fish in MI and have no experience to reference   I am not seeing groups of 10"+ fish from IN.  In fact I can count on one hand the number I have seen on a tape from IN this year.  Lot's of claims of them, pics on a tape seem to be rare.  We played this game last year and big MI gills were countered by IN readear and hybreds.  Not the same fish.

No one is asking you to go to Michigan to fish for them.  If I lived where you did I wouldn't drive that far to fish for gills either unless they were 11-12".   

WTH do crappies have to do with a bluegill limit when both states have a limit on Crappie and have for years?  It is not a coincidence that a limited fish in IN matches size to a limited fish in a neighboring state.  Could it be that a limit on crappie has increased the size structure of them in ALOT of lakes in both states?  Oh wait..that couldn't be, because limits are useless and only put out there because of pressure from the public.   

[Stinkybaits]

Fishgate!! Limits play a small almost non existent part of large fish. It's lake specific not every lake can produce giants. You act like a 25 limit  is the answer for endless giants across the board and we all know that's not the case. If you can show me every lake in Michigan has prospered with the 25 limit then great for Michigan. If you can't fish Indiana and catch gills to fry up that's a personal issue. I don't need to drive to Michigan to catch panfish. They are called panfish because they belong in a PAN. I'm not in pursuit of the 12" gill could care less. I'll go steel head fishing for a true fight. Some will whine saying you should turn the 10s back into the lake because of the genetics for future generations. As far as fishing pressure where is the pressure? 60000 less hunting and fishing licenses sold last year than 10 years ago. Kids play online video games the majority dont fish anymore. Crappies are a great example of why limits don't play the only roll in size. There's dink lakes and trophy lakes for crappie. It's all based per lake period imo. Just like there's lakes with great quality bass then there's lakes with so many dinks they lowered the size limit.
Add this to your finger count of 10" fish.  Just cause most don't catch them doesn't mean they don't exist. This is a common sight for us. Maybe switching up lakes might help.

[URL=http://s969.photobucket.com/user/pikeark/media/20141008_172419_zpsuoidaitv.jpg.html]

[kevs]

Fishgate!! Limits play a small almost non existent part of large fish. It's lake specific not every lake can produce giants. You act like a 25 limit  is the answer for endless giants across the board and we all know that's not the case. If you can show me every lake in Michigan has prospered with the 25 limit then great for Michigan. If you can't fish Indiana and catch gills to fry up that's a personal issue. I don't need to drive to Michigan to catch panfish. They are called panfish because they belong in a PAN. I'm not in pursuit of the 12" gill could care less. I'll go steel head fishing for a true fight. Some will whine saying you should turn the 10s back into the lake because of the genetics for future generations. As far as fishing pressure where is the pressure? 60000 less hunting and fishing licenses sold last year than 10 years ago. Kids play online video games the majority dont fish anymore. Crappies are a great example of why limits don't play the only roll in size. There's dink lakes and trophy lakes for crappie. It's all based per lake period imo. Just like there's lakes with great quality bass then there's lakes with so many dinks they lowered the size limit.
Add this to your finger count of 10" fish.  Just cause most don't catch them doesn't mean they don't exist. This is a common sight for us. Maybe switching up lakes might help.

[URL=http://s969.photobucket.com/user/pikeark/media/20141008_172419_zpsuoidaitv.jpg.html]

That's a good looking slab of wood that slab is on. Is that one of those gills you caught in the lake at Franke Park?

[Stinkybaits]

No I hopped the fence at Sparks pond and caught it then ran away as I heard what sounded like a shotgun pump action sound! I guess it was more like a Sasquatch slumber fast walk. That board rocks!!!!! Best fish cleaning board ever. Thanks Kevs for making that for me! All the stores stock the short boards for Michigan Fish.