IceShanty.com's Ice Fishing Community
Montana => Ice Fishing Montana => Topic started by: oldschoolben on Jan 09, 2022, 07:58 PM
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Went out fishing today and came across where someone had been fishing, they left old bait containers, and cigarette butts everywhere , and chew as well, it really pisses me off to be honest!!! I'm sure whoever was there won't read this ,but just wanted to vent,
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Unfortunately this happens an UNBELIEVABLE amount everywhere you go. Really sad they don't think of the impact this makes on ALL the areas, water or woods.
I always say as conservationists, we are our worst enemy.
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Went out fishing today and came across where someone had been fishing, they left old bait containers, and cigarette butts everywhere , and chew as well, it really pisses me off to be honest!!! I'm sure whoever was there won't read this ,but just wanted to vent,
Saw a fishing vid the other day where this old pos was flipping his butts in the lake...everyone was defending him because he was old.....these guys are the reason you cant go anywhere without seeing beer cans,cig butts and other garbage in the woods.Same goes for all thier perch skins ect,if you have to leave it out there put it down a hole when you leave.
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I've been a hunter and fisherman for over fifty years now. I truely believe that "EVERYONE" has the right to their opinion, especially on a website designed to iniate conversation. Even though I believe that it is your right, I have to say that in this case you are wrong! Encouraging litters to put their trash down the hole is not a good thing. Obviously, it wouldn't be around for others to see, but it will still be poluting the water. And, if I can't see what you are leaving behind, I can't do my part to help keep the water clean! I do agree that the ice would look better, but doing what you said is actually worse then leaving the trash on the ice. There is no chance of someone disposing of it properly if a plastic worm container is laying at the bottom of a lake. Just saying.
I agree....shoving it down the hole is like sweeping it under the rug....if your that lazy stay home and shove it under your own lazy boy chair and complain all about how the internet has killed the sport.
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I've been a hunter and fisherman for over fifty years now. I truely believe that "EVERYONE" has the right to their opinion, especially on a website designed to iniate conversation. Even though I believe that it is your right, I have to say that in this case you are wrong! Encouraging litters to put their trash down the hole is not a good thing. Obviously, it wouldn't be around for others to see, but it will still be poluting the water. And, if I can't see what you are leaving behind, I can't do my part to help keep the water clean! I do agree that the ice would look better, but doing what you said is actually worse then leaving the trash on the ice. There is no chance of someone disposing of it properly if a plastic worm container is laying at the bottom of a lake. Just saying.
I believe PerchPounder was just referring to putting perch skins or any other leftovers from cleaning fish down the hole versus leaving it on the ice but could be wrong.
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I believe PerchPounder was just referring to putting perch skins or any other leftovers from cleaning fish down the hole versus leaving it on the ice but could be wrong.
Check your state laws too...doing that here with any fish parts will get you a ticket.
Best thing is having 3-4 of those annoying plastic bags from stores with you when you go fishing. Try to return with at least a few filled with trash, becuz you know that some just won't do it. ::)
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I've been a hunter and fisherman for over fifty years now. I truely believe that "EVERYONE" has the right to their opinion, especially on a website designed to iniate conversation. Even though I believe that it is your right, I have to say that in this case you are wrong! Encouraging litters to put their trash down the hole is not a good thing. Obviously, it wouldn't be around for others to see, but it will still be poluting the water. And, if I can't see what you are leaving behind, I can't do my part to help keep the water clean! I do agree that the ice would look better, but doing what you said is actually worse then leaving the trash on the ice. There is no chance of someone disposing of it properly if a plastic worm container is laying at the bottom of a lake. Just saying.
Maybe read before you post
::)
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Check your state laws too...doing that here with any fish parts will get you a ticket.
Best thing is having 3-4 of those annoying plastic bags from stores with you when you go fishing. Try to return with at least a few filled with trash, becuz you know that some just won't do it. ::)
not here...leaving them on the ice might tho
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Perch pounder is within the law can’t clean fish within a 100 feet from shore so he could leave them on the ice if he chose to,
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You can't clean a fish within 100' of shore?? Seriously? Why is that? ???
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You can't clean a fish within 100' of shore?? Seriously? Why is that? ???
He’ll I don’t really know it’s just another NY law , guts in the water get eaten by all kinds of creatures
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Well, they can't be a lot worse than the gazillion ones we now have here. Can't even take minnows back home after fishing unless you pour the water out on THE GROUND, and refill container with water brought from home.
That means carrying a jug of spring water, becuz minners don't like chlorine. And worms MUST go in the trash, NOT into the ground, becuz they destroy the soil and kill young vegetation roots...I kid you NOT! I'd like to know who thought up this stoopid sh**..... >:(
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That’s exactly it, clueless. I was talking to a guy while we were fishing and he just winged his cigar butt on the ice, like it didn’t even dawn on him what he was doing, he didn’t seem like a bad person, but it really made me think the same thing how can people be so mindless. Not to sound like a mush but it just seems that these people don’t have a spiritual connection to the outdoors, it’s gear electronics and abusing nature, and not ever feeling gratitude for a kingdom that has been laid under your feet and over your head.
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No need to rant about it. It’s not going to change. Ever. Never going to change. Only going to get exponentially worse. Hoards if people are moving here to hunt and fish because all you guys can’t keep your mouths shut on your multiple social media accounts on how awesome Montana is. Might as well get over it now or just be pissed off the rest of your life. Not everybody that moves here is a saint like they are made out to be on this site. Wait till the population of Montana grows by another 10 percent in 2022.
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No need to rant about it. It’s not going to change. Ever. Never going to change.
Finally, validation for sitting on my ass and doing nothing. I’ll file that under “Rejected Inspirational Workplace Posters.”
And speaking of misplaced sainthood, trash on the ice and at FASs, abuse of resources, vandalism, etc. was a problem here long before the latest influx of new residents.
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Well, they can't be a lot worse than the gazillion ones we now have here. Can't even take minnows back home after fishing unless you pour the water out on THE GROUND, and refill container with water brought from home.
That means carrying a jug of spring water, becuz minners don't like chlorine. And worms MUST go in the trash, NOT into the ground, becuz they destroy the soil and kill young vegetation roots...I kid you NOT! I'd like to know who thought up this stoopid sh**..... >:(
usually politicians come up with this stuff but sometimes they use a little science, I honestly haven't studied just find things like this fascinating
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/invasive-earthworms-denude-forests/ (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/invasive-earthworms-denude-forests/)
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Your welcome for the validation. If you think your going to inspire change don’t hold your breath. All that was a problem before the population influx. Now it’s bigger problem. The 2022 population influx will make it even a bigger problem and so on and so forth until they turn Montana into the crap hole they came from. These people came here to post a picture of a bull elk on Instagram. They don’t give a crap about Montana or the land.
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All that was a problem before the population influx. Now it’s bigger problem. The 2022 population influx will make it even a bigger problem
I agree, and it's likely a problem everywhere. You don't have to grand-stand to make or inspire change. As earlier posts mentioned, bring an extra trash bag or two and make up for 2-3 idiots along the way. Someone might actually see you doing something right and take the time to contemplate it or, better yet, point it out to their kids. Lead by doing. IMO, you're (hypothetically speaking) just as culpable for the trash on the ice if you see it and choose to ignore it.
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Someone might actually see you doing something right and take the time to contemplate it or, better yet, point it out to their kids. Lead by doing. IMO, you're (hypothetically speaking) just as culpable for the trash on the ice if you see it and choose to ignore it.
Exactly. As the saying goes…if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.
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Reminds me of a line from Huckleberry Finn, where Huck was talking to Jim: "they say bees won't sting idiots, but I know that ain't true, 'cuz I been stung a hundred times"... :blink:
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Some things the slobs leave on the ice will go off with me and some won't.
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The 2022 population influx will make it even a bigger problem and so on and so forth until they turn Montana into the crap hole they came from. These people came here to post a picture of a bull elk on Instagram. They don’t give a crap about Montana or the land.
I couldn't agree with you more, population of Montana is expected to DOUBLE in 10-15 years and TRIPLE in 25. You think it's bad now, this is as good as it will ever be, unfortunately Montanas best days are in the rearview mirror. Every one of you guys that post everything on social media, encourage every person you know to move here, it's all unraveling what you love about Montana and you all will have nobody to blame but yourselves. Fact is, all you can do is pick up after yourself, when you see garbage, pick it up, when you see someone litter or chuck a cigar, SAY something! Educate these people or Montana will just be a craphole sooner than later.
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I agree, and it's likely a problem everywhere. You don't have to grand-stand to make or inspire change. As earlier posts mentioned, bring an extra trash bag or two and make up for 2-3 idiots along the way. Someone might actually see you doing something right and take the time to contemplate it or, better yet, point it out to their kids. Lead by doing. IMO, you're (hypothetically speaking) just as culpable for the trash on the ice if you see it and choose to ignore it.
Agree whole heartedly.
I've been picking up shotgun hulls, beer cans in the ditch, and a multitude of other trash up after slobs when hunting for the last 40 years. We do the same on the ice. Unfortunately, its as much or more native Montanans as the transplants.
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Unfortunately, I'm a smoker. ::) But I carry a small container with a lid on it in me pocket to put me butts in. Seeing those things on the ice is disgusting. :sick:
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It’s simple leave it better than you found it. This applies to so much in life campsites, hunting, fishing spot, workspace or your own property. It seems this simple moral has been lost, take a kid fishing and teach them the right way maybe we can change things.
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Agree whole heartedly.
I've been picking up shotgun hulls, beer cans in the ditch, and a multitude of other trash up after slobs when hunting for the last 40 years. We do the same on the ice. Unfortunately, its as much or more native Montanans as the transplants.
It's everywhere, I've picked up lots of garbage around here, sadly it's mostly from the locals, picked up quite a few shotgun hulls on the bird management units we hunted this fall.
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Too many ass holes out there, the older I get the less patience I have for dumb ****censored word****s, if they aren't leaving trash behind they set up their crap too close to you! Seems like some people have no issue with crowding you , I was really hoping covid
Would have weeded a few more of these assholes out
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never understood why there isn't more enforcement of litter laws..Now i know the last thing anyone wants is more wardens walking around with a clipboard and writing tickets for gutting a fish within 100 feet of the water or something seemingly trivial or where the line is legitimately fuzzy...But one would think they could easily afford the salary ..or even just once a month overtime shift, from the revenues they would gain writing tickets for littering...Or have a box you can check when buying license for litter enforcement ....
Educating people is one thing, and always should be attempted, but bottom line is some people are disgusting selfish slobs and maybe the only way to make them change is a hit to their pocket book...
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Hey CCC,
How about an incentive.. Add a few cents to each .223 casing and you get that back when you return your casings. It works for bottles and cans on the west coast. An extra 10 cents a round would go a long way in encouraging people to pick up their casings. It doesn't make up for the amount of lead that gets left in our drainages, but I don't want to get started on that. Copper is the way to go!
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i agree more tickets less trash learning curve.
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That's so infuriating. I try to pick up trash that I see but there's only so much I can pick up.
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paper is good.nothing pisses me off more then to see plastic bags floating down the river or lake or nine hours out in to the ocean.
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If it were only so simple that out of state people - like myself and my wife - who have lived here for 20 years were responsible for all the bad things that have happened to hunting and fishing. Unfortunately, from what I have witnessed in the last 20 years, that it's at least a 50% chance that a native from Montana just might contribute to some of that too. I have found plenty of trash and plenty of illegal acts - shooting from a motor vehicle at game - littering at favorite target ranges, dumping trash from a truck when they get out to cut a tree out of a road behind a closed, gated road to indicate it isn't just out of state people who recently moved in. If everyone did pick up a little trash and was more considerate of others and the woods/waters it would be a better place. The other notable thing is a person may indicate they're a native or just not say, but I have found a high number of those people aren't native either but like to act like they are and complain about people that came here after they came here...I guess it takes all kinds. I agree you might as well get over it as it's not going to stop and you can't fix stupid...just sayin.
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I’ve lived in the same town in Montana my ENTIRE life. Never lived anywhere else for any amount of time. There has been ZERO positive changes to the extreme influx of people moving here to hunt and fish. Zero. And there isn’t going to be a positive change. Nothing good will come out of dozens of thousands of people moving here because of what they see on social media. No sentimental value to the state or land at all. Just want the trophy animal. Very saddening and disgusting the changes I’ve seen because of this population explosion. My kids will never have the same opportunity as I did because of it.
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Come on let’s hear them. I want to hear some positive changes to outdoor recreation in montana when the population doubles and continues to grow. Let me guess, any reply I get has to do with money.
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Money is medium for continued destruction. I’m looking for positive changes to our Montana values and way of life, the land, and the wildlife. The things I care about
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You aren't wrong Bobber....
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Unfortunately, I'm a smoker. ::) But I carry a small container with a lid on it in me pocket to put me butts in. Seeing those things on the ice is disgusting. :sick:
I have seen smokers use an empty water bottle also. The sad thing is many of these slobs that litter the ice probably have an empty bottle rolling around in the bottom of their sled.🙄
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Whiskey tangos in MT are at an all time high. It’s sad and pisses my off too. Lots of bad and unsafe behavior.
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The point I was making above is that the poor behavior isn't limited to out-of-stater's or young people or old people or....when you try to lump a group of people into a category you are likely incorrect on a large scale. If you were to do a survey of all the biologists that work for MTFWP, I would bet a large percentage of those folks weren't born in Montana. Does that mean they all litter when they go ice fishing or hunting? Same goes for a large percentage of the people who are state employees as well. Then there's the military bases...how many people on those including the highest in command are from Montana? Does that make them all part of the litter crowd? They probably were ordered to Montana. I guess they don't have any positive effect on anything either?? You have no factual data to support your statement that none of the non-native Montanans make a positive effect on hunting, fishing and outdoor recreation in Montana. I guess you are probably wrong about the population doubling as well - more inaccurate information. It's one thing to make a statement - "I found some litter on the ice today and I picked it up like any good person would do. I sure wished people wouldn't litter on the ice" which is a perfectly good statement and attitude or you could make a statement bashing a large group of people that probably isn't accurate and pat yourself on the back thinking somehow that will cure the problem.
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Now to be captain obvious, I feel like it's a failure to enforce existing laws....
Game wardens are specifically designated to protect wildlife but they usually ignore the slob flicking cigarette butts and trash everywhere but have no qualms writing tickets for the dreaded Mary Jane.....
Even worse is they won't let you off with a warning if you agree to clean other people's trash up
Okay so I can't really deny that my personal take on it all may be tainted by traumatic fishing experiences.....
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You kind of missed the point. The point is the more people you have the more of the bad crap you’re going to find out there. And yes I’ve witnessed some Washington folks do the most absurdly disrespectful crap I’ve ever seen. Things I’ve never personally witnessed before. It could stop me from hunting all together. Washington is proof that not every state has the same values in conservation of the land and wildlife lol
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There's an easy solution...maybe you can convince your legislators to get the national parks de-titled so the 3 million people a year to Glacier and however many millions that go to Yellowstone stop coming to Montana. Then you could maybe get them to stop filming Yellowstone - the tv show - so more people don't find out. Maybe they could ban "A river runs through it" since that's why my neighbor moved here. I'm sure they could then pass a law to stop all out-of-staters from becoming in-staters. A few simple new laws could end it all. You have another year plus before the next legislative session. I'm sure you won't have any problems getting the Governor - another out-of-stater- to pass a few laws to shut this sh*tshow down. Then we can all tackle the litter problem as it will be much more manageable. I agree...those Washintonians are the worst...can't hardly get any tags in Idaho now because of them. They ruin everything.
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There's an easy solution...maybe you can convince your legislators to get the national parks de-titled so the 3 million people a year to Glacier and however many millions that go to Yellowstone stop coming to Montana. Then you could maybe get them to stop filming Yellowstone - the tv show - so more people don't find out. Maybe they could ban "A river runs through it" since that's why my neighbor moved here. I'm sure they could then pass a law to stop all out-of-staters from becoming in-staters. A few simple new laws could end it all. You have another year plus before the next legislative session. I'm sure you won't have any problems getting the Governor - another out-of-stater- to pass a few laws to shut this sh*tshow down. Then we can all tackle the litter problem as it will be much more manageable. I agree...those Washintonians are the worst...can't hardly get any tags in Idaho now because of them. They ruin everything.
Not sure I would call de-titling two National Parks a simple new law...Also as much as I hate the influx of people in this state, especially rich people who saw it on a TV show and want to live the "cowboy" life in their million dollar homes, this is still the "United" States of America and there will never ever be a ban on people moving here. Citizens of the USA have full right to come here the same as we can move if we want. If we want people to respect the land and resources we need to teach it in schools, enforce it more strictly, higher fines, give the fisheries biologists power to cite minor things like littering?, more officers, and people need to be able to call a group of fishermen or hunters who aren't doing the thing out respectfully.
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YELLOWSTONE is garbage. Its embarrassing that junk is made here.
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It amazes me the hatred for out of staters yet two of them were elected to office this past election.
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Red is red in some peoples books....
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It amazes me the hatred for out of staters yet two of them were elected to office this past election.
A transplant Republican is still better than our backstabbing native Dims. :tipup:
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What the hell happened to this thread ?
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Kinda went off the rails.
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Out of staters are being elected because out of staters are voting for them
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Snitch, nice summery and recommendation to make our rivers and lakes a better place!
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I totally agree! However, why did you stop there? Why didn't you have "ALL" of the immigrants go home. Leaving the state of Montana to the original Americans, or the "Native Americans"! It is preposterous to think that "any" states people are the cause of the problem. Until one realizes that "WE" are the problem, there will be discrimination and turmoil. There are a lot of people on here who want to rant and rave about things but do very little to try and fix it. They would rather take the easy way out and sit at their computer and type away the problem. Have any of you tried volunteering at your local elementary, junior high or high school, speaking about the issue effecting your community? Have any of you actually got a group of kids together and spent a Saturday driving around cleaning up public lands where trash accumulates? And yes, I have taken my son and a few of his friends out to walk around lakes on public land, picking up trash. And, going to state land parking lots, filling trash bags so numerous we had to make two trips with a pick-up. And, I have actually presented at seminars at our local school system, on the topic of "wildlife and the influences humans have on their habitat". I have also taught "Changing Behavior" classes at two different county jails to their inmates, as part of their pre-release requirement. It was an eight week program designed to teach how our behaviors influence the children of our community. As part of the program, we took inmates out into the community and picked up trash at the local schools, parks, fairgrounds and other community places. This was done on Saturdays and the inmates wore their street clothing, so that the kids didn't know they were inmates. Also in order to conceal their identity we took the inmates from one county over to clean up the other counties land. There are a lot of things you can do to influence the younger generation, none of which are sitting at your computer complaining! If you have done things to help the situation, I commend you, if not, get to work!
Thank you for supporting my earlier points in that Mr. BobberdownMT would like to blame out-of-staters for littering on the ice with very little or no supporting evidence. I'm sure the Native Americans would agree with you regarding giving the land back to the actual residents. You hit the nail on the head to actually take an active role in the environment which we do every time we hit the trails, rivers or shooting ranges in picking up other peoples litter. My wife takes her class fishing yearly - Snappy's or some of the local state fish ponds and teaches them other earth friendly lessons. In my previous life of guiding for many years, usually tried passing on about conserving the resources - both hunting and fishing. The main point of getting involved in this discussion, it is pretty easy to point fingers at a group - at least on the roads you can somewhat identify the newly arrived folks by license plate - but to find some cigarette butts on the ice and then go on a rant about how all the out-of-staters are ruining Montana and with the population doubling their kids won't have the same opportunities as they did. The entire issue is much more complex than that but not everyone is a critical thinker nor do they have to be. Just like at the gun club, don't hold your breath that everyone or even a majority will get directly involved as the same 50 people pick up the trash and put the range back together out of the 600 members. The same guys that grew up road hunting teach their kids to road hunt, even though the instructor at the safety course just taught them it is illegal and unsafe to do so. The same guys take their kids fishing and watch the parent throw their trash on the ice or down the hole and drive home drunk. We'll never cure that - I just don't want to be lumped into that crowd because I wasn't born in Montana - it's that simple.
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Yup ... All the out of state trash moving here is fantastic! X2 Icefishmissoula, Snitch nailed it lol.
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Sounds like most of you hate litterbugs on the ice, every time I drive on a local 4 lane it's a pig pen and I would say it's from locals! Just a couple of years ago I was hunting neat the Pocono Raceway, WTH there's garbage laying all over in the woods, apparently they had a lantern festival at the racetrack and what goes up must come down, those paper lanterns were laying everywhere in the woods. There is another instance where I saw a mess in a field where I used to hunt Indian relics, they now hold a local fair there and have a large fireworks display, there was junk laying all over the place from those fireworks. How about those mylar balloons, seems like most people have no problem releasing them for various occasions. Face it, there are people out there that just don't give a darn about making a mess, and just seems like there are more and more of them as time goes by. :(
I also have about 100 yds. of road frontage that's good for 1-2 large bags of litter every year, sometimes even people's full garbage bags, I love it when those morons have their correspondence in them with their names and addresses, then I give them to the Township and they contact them!
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I’m not talking about litter I’m talking about Montana values and most importantly conservation of the land and wildlife which I’m very passionate about and will never stop fighting for it. Those of you who haven’t been here long will never now how this place used to be. It will never be the same and it’s only going to get worse until people turn Montana exactly into what they were running from in the first place
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a lot has changed in the last 40 years fishing and hunting spots get crowded influx of people moving here change sucks! you have two options stay home or do the things you love with more people around.
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Do you really think current hunting and fishing regulations, developed when the population was half the size it is now, will be sustainable through the population boom and the thousands more coming over here to hunt every year? Absolutely not. When my daughter is old enough she’s going to have to draw her first deer license and I’m not ok with that. It’s going to be one of those every 2-3 years that we will be able to do any hunting period. (Sounds a lot like the states people are moving away from). When this happens, and it will don’t fool yourself, I bet more people will be on my side lol
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Can you imagine the animosity towards out of staters when someone who has lived here their whole life has to sit back and watch while someone who just moved here gets to go hunting because they we’re lucky enough to draw a general license that year? Oh boy I can’t wait!
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Can you imagine the animosity towards out of staters when someone who has lived here their whole life has to sit back and watch while someone who just moved here gets to go hunting because they we’re lucky enough to draw a general license that year? Oh boy I can’t wait!
It has been a thing for quite while,they set aside 10% of the hard to draw tags for out of staters...in some areas they have better draw odds than you do....thats how much the MT F&G cares about its residents.
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Non-resident get priority first draw lottery over residents here, been that way for years. All about snagging that $300 per tag for non-resident vs $25 for resident.
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I’m not talking about litter I’m talking about Montana values and most importantly conservation of the land and wildlife which I’m very passionate about and will never stop fighting for it. Those of you who haven’t been here long will never now how this place used to be. It will never be the same and it’s only going to get worse until people turn Montana exactly into what they were running from in the first place
Ask any old timer in NE PA, we "HAD" the Poconos which was prime hunting and fishing and mostly woodland, now it is development upon development!! I agree exactly with what you are saying, we saw it happen and it's not getting any better, all I can say is good luck!!!!!
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by the time i have to wait 2 or 3 years to draw tag to hunt it will not matter i will be to old anyway
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Sorry I shouldn’t be so negative. I get told they a lot. Ill shut up now
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Why are you even replying to a Montana site? Stay in Michigan and keep your god damn liberal ideas out of Montana
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I'm actually from Idaho ,I moved here 22 years ago, I understand how the hatred towards out of staters is so strong, but I would like to think I'm one of the good ones tho
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The further this thread strays from the original topic, the more it confirms for me the title is accurate.
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Im just here for the read.lol
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The further this thread strays from the original topic, the more it confirms for me the title is accurate.
:clap:
And some of the comments confirms to me that the next Civil War is fast approaching...maybe even the Apocalypse isn't that far away either. :woot: :whistle:
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Your comment about the Trump supporters was out of line in my opinion,
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What part? The part that he wants to be King? Just ask him, he'll tell you the same thing. And, if you hadn't noticed, I didn't say anything political until a Republican brought it up! Have a good day.
Please don't speak of the "Great Orange"....
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i think we should put up a wall
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Damn- I didn't realize I was so hated here. I'm just trying to keep my head down and catch some fish. Oh, and apparently save up more for a house. Because I just got priced out. Again.
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Nah, you’re not hated here! Some people are just grumpy. It’s conservation that supports greater numbers of wildlife and that has only improved over the last 50 years in Montana. OUR lands will continue to improve as people fall in love with Montana and want to ensure it remains a healthy ecosystem. In 16 years of fishing and hunting here, the biggest litterers that I have encountered have all been Montanans. It’s not people who move here who are throwing they’re beer cans out the window and it definitely isn’t pbr drinking hippies.
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Gotta disagree that our lands and outdoor experiences are going to get better. Full trailheads, boat ramps, a car parked at every wide spot on a mountain road, 12 people chasing every bugle, more and more elk pushed to private land, more people hammering on finite resources etc etc ..will never make Montana better. That's the exact opposite of better.
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Gotta disagree that our lands and outdoor experiences are going to get better. Full trailheads, boat ramps, a car parked at every wide spot on a mountain road, 12 people chasing every bugle, more and more elk pushed to private land, more people hammering on finite resources etc etc ..will ever make Montana better. That's the exact opposite of better.
Yep, and if your governor has his way private land will be impossible to hunt on.
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Not sure what Montana you live in IFM but it’s not the one I’m experiencing. Things are far worse now and most of the trash I encounter is out of state. Just my experience anyway. Posts before mine are more like the MT I’m living in. IMO, social media, onX, atvs…have changed the state in a short period of time. Education is a big part of the problem, clueless humans. Oh I digress.
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I live in Missoula, I may have ran into a handful of hunters all year and I easily put 20+ days in the woods. Rarely was someone parked where I wanted to hunt. The bugles I heard and the elk I chased were smarter than me and had nothing to do with another hunter. My wife shot a doe on public land with my 8 year old and 5 year old daughter with us. After passing on several bucks with our kids in tow. My wife killed her biggest buck to date on public land. I shot my buck the 2nd weekend of the season on public land. The few times I went elk hunting in rifle season on public land I was out smarted by elk and not another hunter. I am taking my two daughters ice fishing tomorrow. If it’s a slow day, it’s not some out of staters fault. I fly fished the 2nd weekend of January, caught 4 trout and had the whole river to myself. Quit with the complaining about other people. Work on the weekends so you can have the woods to yourself. Find the off seasons to have the rivers to yourself. The more we take care of our land and our rivers the better our lands will become. The more people that use them the more people there will be to fight for them. We are the minority in this state, we need people to hunt so that we do not end up like other west coast states. I encourage you to take some new hunting or fishing this year, their vote may be the vote that saves trapping or bear hunting or who knows what else.
We drive roads looking for trash to pick up not animals to shoot out the windows. All I hear from this forum is how people are supposed to stop being lazy to catch their fish but how the parking lots are full. If someone else is where I am going hunting. I know I can go farther or be quieter then them. If they beat me to the herd, I should have started earlier or taken a different route knowing what they would do.
I have a place up rock creek and have my own complaints about Washington plates, do not get me wrong. However the campsites that are trashed with 5 vehicles at them when there is room for 2, that’s always Montana plates. The road hunting and litter out the windows, that’s Montana plates. The casings and rounds left at every gate and turn around spot, that’s Montana plates. The reason lots of private land owners no longer open up their land has nothing to do with out of staters, that’s their neighbors that trashed their fences and drove wherever they wanted to go because they felt entitled.
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Ya I don’t know where the hell this guy is living at either lol.
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Huh....
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Well congrats to you and all your success. Let’s agree to disagree.
That’s all folks. 🤣
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BS
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Ya I don’t know where the hell this guy is living at either lol.
I second this....no way this guys hunting public land MT lol. And sure you can find bucks on public land, fork horns and some young 4 pointers but Mule Deer hunting on Public Land has been especially impacted by increase of out of state hunters.
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Just a reminder that today is the last day FWP will be accepting comments regarding the proposed changes to 2022 and 2023 hunting seasons and licenses.
https://fwp.mt.gov/aboutfwp/public-comment-opportunities/reg-proposals
Another reminder is that the current primary voice on the FWP Commission is GG appointee Pat Tabor.
Missoula Current
“Tabor runs Swan Mountain Outfitters, which has had the concession for trail rides in Glacier National Park and runs a variety of other trips, including winter snowmobiling and hunts in the Bob Marshall Wilderness. A 2018 Forbes article said the business brought in about $2.5 million a year.
But in 2005, Tabor had the money to give the business a good start, because he had been working more than 25 years as a top accountant at H&R Block in San Diego. Since then, he’s made his money off the scenery and wildlife – the public trust – of Montana.”
Billings Gazette
“…Tabor said he is not interested in ‘bulldozing or coming in with a specific agenda.’ However, he went on to say that he feels nonresidents, who supply a large portion of the funding to Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks because their hunting and fishing licenses are more expensive, deserve a larger say.
‘I’ve always felt quite strongly that nonresidents don’t have a voice relative to what happens in Montana … I think when we talk about sportsmen it needs to be all inclusive.’”
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That's f$&@in wonderful!!! Said no one ever!
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money not everything.
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That's fine if out of staters want to come to Montana and spend money on licenses, fuels, hotels etc...but if they want to come they need to play by rules set by the people of Montana. They should not have a more of a voice on Montana management strategies. By law the wildlife belong to the people of the state in which the wildlife reside. We already have enough out state liberal lobbyist groups forcing wolves and grizzlies on us, lobbying fish and game to poison our creeks to "restore" native trout populations (yet said group was up in arms about the brown trout eggs when the Hebgen dam malfunctioned, figured they'd be happy since they want to poison brown trout everywhere else), pushing bills to ban trapping, the list goes on and on. We don't need out of staters now telling us how they want our elk and deer to be managed.
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a lot very wealthy people move to mt buy big tracks of land close off access roads that we natives used for years try to chase you off rivers you have a right to use.with wealth comes power to make deals with mtfwp,mt state etc. we get a pittance of we once had if anything
and most of these people do not live here all year and think they can buy resident tags. give me less money for the state less people added to the state and the access i once had any day.plus less access means more crowds.
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On a side note- I think that banning the Air BnB model of rentals and adding an insane tax on non-resident homeowners would curb the amount of single-family homes being taking out of the residential housing market.
You can't stop people from moving here, but you can mitigate their impact.
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I certainly get that too! It appears the rich feel they can do whatever they want and get away with it. In fact, it happens all the time. Our system is set up for the rich to progress and get richer and the rest of us continue to fight and struggle for everything we get. Our system is set up for them, do they care if they have to pay exorbitant amounts for; housing, healthcare, medicine, gas, schooling, vehicles and it goes on and on. I have said for a very long time now that underclass, which continues to grow wildly, will sooner or later decide they have had enough and take what they want, instead of work for it. And, if the current situation with people not wanting to work and the crime rate, especially what you see on TV about people stealing in the trainyards of LA, the mobs robbing fine jewelry stores and high price clothing stores, is any indication, it is starting to happen. The majority will prevail. And, the majority is real tired of a very select minority having all the wealth and comforts. But, this thread is about littering, not the rich closing roads, rivers hunting areas or anything else! And I stand by my comments. I do not feel that out-of-staters pollute "your" woods and waters, anymore than those born in Montana. It is a social thing and until we educate our youth, the problem will continue to get worse. Why, because the youth of today will grow up to have kids, if they don't know what is right from wrong, how do they teach those kids, right from wrong?
I understand what you are saying, and as a native Michigander living in Montana (don’t worry native Montanans, I’m a poor wildland firefighter that can’t afford to buy a home here so I won’t be here for too much longer ;)) I have to emphasize that this is an incredibly complex and sensitive issue in the state of Montana currently.
There is a mass influx of people moving here from out of state including those from California, Washington, New York and Oregon. The majority are incredibly wealthy. Houses that once sold for $150-200k are now selling for $400-600k. To a retired couple from San Francisco, Portland, Seattle or LA that’s chump change. They can afford to sell their homes for up to $1mil and move to Montana and buy up some land with it.
The housing crisis isn’t the only issue. From my own perspective, the folks that are moving here don’t culturally align with those that are native Montanans. Honestly, a California conservative barely comes close to aligning with a native Montana Democrat. Politics aside, it’s just a weird time in the state right now and the topic of out of staters is a touchy subject. Whether they’re moving here or just coming here to fish/hunt, Montanans just want people to be respectful and quite frankly be left alone. I can’t blame them for that at all.
I’ve travelled and worked a lot of different places for my job and I would say this state is as close as it gets culturally to where I grew up Michigan. The way I look at it is, how would I feel if my home state experienced the same population growth within 10 years, and to be blunt, just didn’t like the type of people that were moving there?
I see you’re posting with good intentions but it’s hard to understand if you haven’t seen it first hand. It’s an issue that won’t be solved anytime soon and I feel terrible for the native Montanans who aren’t able to make ends meet or have affordable housing in their home state. You talking about out of staters bringing money into the state when they pay for licenses, tags and trips to Montana may be true but that point is completely nullified by the larger issue at hand.
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this^^^^^
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Can I still dream about moving there from this diversified golden anus town? ;D
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I too am a smoker but always have a container for all my butts. Hate seeing trash on the lakes and woods. Always carry a spare bag to pick up any trash left behind by others. You’d be surprise how much crap I collect in a year from others leaving bait containers, beverage bottles and cans and fishing line behind. So sad :(
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Huh...Butte has some of the best people in MT. Out of staters are def more inclined to liter and be as lazy as possible when hunting here. Just because you have a sxs or a 4wheeler doesn't mean you get to take it everywhere.
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sounds like more and more people need to go to a dispensary and get some mellow out flower and chill the F OUT! Yes there has been an influx of out of state people...however most of them seem to be more open to helping protect our land then not. Maybe if all you run into is "bad ones" maybe you should look in a mirror at the common denominator....
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I recall exactly why I chose to move to Montana 26 years ago. I can’t remember a thing about my choice to be born in Minnesota.
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It really is amazing how people think more people and finite resources make everything better 😹😹😹😹😹
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Huh...Butte has some of the best people in MT. Out of staters are def more inclined to liter and be as lazy as possible when hunting here. Just because you have a sxs or a 4wheeler doesn't mean you get to take it everywhere.
Yes it does
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sounds like more and more people need to go to a dispensary and get some mellow out flower and chill the F OUT! Yes there has been an influx of out of state people...however most of them seem to be more open to helping protect our land then not. Maybe if all you run into is "bad ones" maybe you should look in a mirror at the common denominator....
Most out of staters buy a little land and think they own everything around it and can lock gates on county roads.
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I doubt if "most" out of staters put locked gates across public roads! Sounds to me like your feelings got hurt when someone came in from out of state and bought up the land you "use" to hunt! And I'm pretty sure if I go on-line and buy an elk tag, mule deer tag or any other hunting license, that I will be able to influence how the laws are passed. I can understand some of you have legit concerns but some of you guys are throwing chi _ against the wall and are expecting it to stick, just to talk. Nothing, Nothing, Nothing will work to cut back on people littering better than education and enforcement of the current laws. I highly doubt the majority of the litter comes from fisherman and hunters. Yes, I find it all the time too and pick it up when I do. But I think more litter comes from people throwing stuff out of the window, while driving down the road, then gets thrown out by sportsman. I agree that any litter is too much. But sitting on here talking about it won't change a dang thing! Especially, if you don't know what you're talking about! So if you want to make a difference start doing some of what I suggested above. Or don't and continue to complain. At least I know when I complain, I'm doing my best to enact change. Can some of you say the same?
Nope, not the case, actually happened, more than one time, in different places, found out it's illegal to lock gates on county roads and old stage coach roads, not that my feelings got hurt that they bought up land I used, just used the road to access other land, highly illegal to do that. Don't really care that they buy land, but need to realize that they don't own everything around it.
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Yep, they do, that's how we found out about what can be shut down, but if they own a bunch of land that's intermingled with state land, they can't lock you out of state land either.
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Boils down to one issue that covers a lot of areas....lack of respect for anyone or anything.
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Boils down to one issue that covers a lot of areas....lack of respect for anyone or anything.
Yep, pretty much.
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I do know that before the interstate compact for wildlife violations a lot of put of staters would come do whatever they pleased, cause of they got caught, they'd just go to another state, had a lot of them tell me that.
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I’m a firm believer that people can’t be shamed anymore. The amount of blatant disrespect in the last 5 years is really something. It’s beyond sad. I’m grateful for the parents I had!
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I’m a firm believer that people can’t be shamed anymore. The amount of blatant disrespect in the last 5 years is really something. It’s beyond sad. I’m grateful for the parents I had!
X2
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X3!!!
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I’m a firm believer that people can’t be shamed anymore.
Absolutely true... The things people do that they should be embarrassed by but aren't even phased by grows longer every day....
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Absolutely true... The things people do that they should be embarrassed by but aren't even phased by grows longer every day....
Dumbing down and blunted feelings from continual social media it's all about me-me-me- posts, IMO.
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Dumbing down and blunted feelings from continual social media it's all about me-me-me- posts, IMO.
Exactly! And they don’t care at all😉
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Maybe she woulda become the kind of 28 year old that doesn't still live at home? 🤷♂️
JFC... my parents never pulled any psychotic crap like that on me, and I moved out at 18, bought a house at 23, and paid it off at 36.
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My dad was very stern.i screwed up i knew it for sure.wont get into details but i moved out at 18.my daughter has no intentions to live with us until 28 and she never had a hand laid on her.no way is my kid living with us that long.get out and be a good self sustaining, contributor to society.not says your kid isn't contributing to society snitch#8 at all.
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My Dad had me get out and get my first job after school when I was 14 yo. Rode my bike daily after school down to a local restaurant owned by one of his friends, bussing tables and dishes. Made .80 an hour. My first paycheck, I'll never forget, was $14. I was rich!!! If I screwed off and got in trouble, it was the clothes brush to the butt. Really bad, and out came the dreaded belt..... :pinch: I always heard as soon as I graduated and turned 18, I was out on my own. And I was. *BOOT* Learned to work for what I wanted, and along the way, respect for other people. Ya can't give people that; you earn it.
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My dad was very strict also. I felt a little picked on when I was young, compared to some of my friends. I moved out at 17 just after high school. A little later in life I realized he did me a favor. He helped me be prepared to make my way in the world.
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I remember my dad telling me when I was 16 your old enough to get a job go to work no more hand outs thanks to this and my mother telling me if you want something buy it your self with Your money ! My uncle would take me hunting/fishing we would each have a trash bag and fill it. No one spared the corrective action of a spanking.Mom would get mad just look at us kids and say I brought you into this world I sure n the hell take you outta it too !
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Ah ya....the dreaded " just wait until yer Father gets home!" :woot:
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Just got back from rock creek. 22 out of state plates in the lot (I counted) compared to 4 MT plates. Looked pretty clean. But it was BUSY!!!!!!
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26 vehicles in a lot to go strip some streamers, nymphs or b***h cricks on a TUESDAY!? 22 out of state? Lord help us!
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Rock Creek, as in the stream? Or Rock Creek, as in the Fort Peck access?
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Oh, my bad ..he is most certainly is talking about Ft. Peck....Being 550 miles away from Peck. I always see it as some mystical place where monster fish are caught. it might as well be in my dreams. I hope to get there someday. possibly in open water season.
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Fort Peck.
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I was just as shocked as you CCC. The beauty of Rock Creek (the stream) is that you can fish it and stand a good chance at having it to yourself this time of year. If I showed up there in the middle of February and saw 26 vehicles in one lot...well I don't know if I'd be depressed or steamed, lol.
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You could start talking about it on the internet for all to see. Maybe make a rock creek fishing Facebook page? That will help get the parking lot full. I bet the last few comments brought people over to fish the stream
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You could start talking about it on the internet for all to see. Maybe make a rock creek fishing Facebook page? That will help get the parking lot full. I bet the last few comments brought people over to fish the stream
lmao ;D
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I always do this and I always show the kids I take fishing that they can make difference that they can see right then.