Author Topic: FL-8 vs FL-18  (Read 9227 times)

panfishhead

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FL-8 vs FL-18
« on: Dec 07, 2003, 07:05 PM »
Ok fellas I'm about as electronicly literate as a post. It took me years & I mean years to realize I needed sonar on the ice as as well as in my boat. So a few years ago I went out and bought what I was told was the best unit I could get, the Vex FL-8. I love the thing & wouldn't cosider fishing without it. Now I'm reading the "new" FL-18 is all the rage. What is the major difference between the two units? Is it so much better to be worth dumping my Fl-8? Considering in a good winter I might only get out a cpl dozen times?  TX & TIGHT LINES  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   panfishhead  ......  mark  

Offline frostbite

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #1 on: Dec 07, 2003, 07:35 PM »
I just bought a fl-18 this year and I love it. The major differance is the auto zoom feature on the fl-18. With this you can zoom in on the bottom 6 feet on the left side of the dial, and still see the big picture on the right. Is it worth it for only a dozen trips a year? That depends on the depth of your wallet, it is quite a bit more that the fl-8, but like I said I love mine.
A bad day fishing is better than a good day at work.

Offline FishDeepCreek

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #2 on: Dec 07, 2003, 07:38 PM »
Bottom Zoom, Low power setting built in (no S cable needed) and brighter display. The new version of the FL8, has the  brighter display, I think maybe the low power setting built in too. The low power setting is basically reduced power for shallow water fishing. Too much power gain, and you pick up junk on the screen. The biggest difference is the bottom zoom. If your a walleye or perch Ice angler its a big plus. You get 2 displays on the wheel, one the entire water column, the other half the bottom 6 feet which is greatly magnified, and shows better detail of fish to bottom, and your lure is show larger. You can shut off the zoom on the FL18 too. You can get the instruction video from Vexilar for like $2.00, they show you how the FL18 works, and Mr Genz shows the zoom in detail. Maybe a good idea if you want to see it in action.

Offline crappieloo

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #3 on: Dec 07, 2003, 08:09 PM »
panfishhead, KEEP THE FL-8.
Your not into fishing bottom feeders over 40 feet deep are you?
I didn't think so.
You know how to use the fl-8 and ''see'' fish on the bottom already so why throw money down to the bottem of the ice hole?
I don't much about bottom feeders, BUT.....
a few years ago i went to a walleye-perch lake and drove 2 and 1/2 miles out parked my car and shot my fl-8 trans down a hole that was less than 10 feet from a group of guys.
''What the heck '' i said as i noticed a fish was laying right on the bottom in 37 feet of water.
I made sure they heard me say that there was a fish right on the bottom as i dropped my jig down there.
Up came a fat12&1/2 inch perch.

Offline Da_Roc

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #4 on: Dec 08, 2003, 10:32 AM »
Hi Guys!
   I think you should go buy the FL18.  Then Ill buy your Fl8 from you for $75.00 everyone will be happy then.
  LOL  Its a win win deal.
  When you buy the fl18 let me know right away ill come running with cash!!
   Da-Roc
  P.S. I know HA Ha!

Offline crappieloo

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #5 on: Dec 08, 2003, 06:04 PM »
ROC, that was pretty good ;D

Justin16

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #6 on: Dec 09, 2003, 03:58 PM »
I would definitely recomend a Fl-18  It is worth every penny!  I just got one this eyar and have used it and I love it!  The Auto zoom is a great feature to have anytime.  It is also very easy to see in bright sun.  

Justin

Offline Greenglo_Bob

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #7 on: Dec 09, 2003, 04:35 PM »
FL 18 is the only way to go, love mine!!!!!!
He who has the most toys wins!!!!!

Offline Fishinut

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #8 on: Dec 09, 2003, 05:43 PM »
By the looks of things I am missing alot of fish by not having a flasher. Does anyone know where I can get a used FL-8 for a reasonable price. My wallet doesn't allow for me to get a new one, so a heavily used one would be what I am looking for. Any help on this would greatly be appreciated. Tight Lines - Fishinut
Many are cold, but few are frozen

Offline FishDeepCreek

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #9 on: Dec 09, 2003, 06:05 PM »
Check Vexilars web page they have a factory direct page on recondioned units with full new warrentys. Some of them were demos for the press etc.

hooky

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #10 on: Dec 09, 2003, 07:18 PM »
Has anyone used either one of these on the bow of their boat in the open water?

Offline John_Boy

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #11 on: Dec 09, 2003, 07:23 PM »
hey fishinut
there's lots of vexilars on e-bay right now !!
                                                 john

Offline Fishinut

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #12 on: Dec 09, 2003, 08:52 PM »
Thanks guys....I looked on ebay yesterday. Nothing caught my eye then, but I will look again now. tight lines - Fishinut
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CNY_Tim

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #13 on: Dec 09, 2003, 09:30 PM »
Wow - Theres 26 FL-18's on EBay!  Why is that?  Sounds like more people are seeing that the best 3 color flasher is the MarCum LX-3.  Try searching for the LX-3 on EBay and nothing.
Independent testing has shown the LX-3 ice fishing system has Superior target separation, thin-line display, adjustable zoom that can be placed anywhere you want in the water column, soft pack, Digital charging system with auto shut off "recharges a battery that's dead in less than 6 hours."
I own an FL-18 and an LX-3 and tested both units last winter and although the FL-18's colors are easier on the eyes the LX-3's target separation and zoom blows the vexilar away.
The LX-3's this season are 20 % brighter than last years model.
I can assure you that you will see alot more FL-18's on Ebay because right now the second best flasher on the market is the FL-18.
Why buy now what your going to put on EBay later.
For those of you that would like a narrower beam transducer to go with the LX-3 system a new narrower beam ducer will be available in 2004.
American Military Engineering that fishes developed the LX-3.  If you are a previous Colorpoint user you will love the LX-3 it's what Colorpoint users have been waiting for.  You will see more and more on the ice this season and will be astounded by the crispness of display and remarkable zoom performance that is truly evolutionary in the flasher industry.
MarCum is well on it's way and  Vexilar better do something quick.
The FL-18 zoom performance last year was disappointing on a couple of occasions I would lose the bottom 4ft. of zoom. after playing with the adjustments I got it to work again. Mine was not the only unit this happened too.  I sent my FL-18 in for the version 2 upgrade and am anxious to see if the bugs are out of it.
The MarCum after fishing one season has been fantastic it's never let me down.  For those of you that like to fish bluegill and hole hop you will have to adjust everytime you take the vexilar out of the hole to fish in zoom.  Not the LX-3 you can set it and forget it why would you want to do 40 more stomach crunches playing with buttons when you can just run and gun and just concentrate on fishing.  The LX-3 is technically superior and the best value for your dollar on the market.
The LX-3's interference rejection is top dawg you can knock out any flasher on the ice that comes within range and never have interference problems again.  You put a couple of FL-18's and some Fl-8's together and forget about it. You'll be pushing buttons till the cow comes home on the Vexilar product.
You work hard for your money and $400 dollars is alot to spend on a flasher take your time and do a little research you will find as a lot of other ice anglers have the clear choice is MarCum!
Vexilar has been great for alot of years and there customer service is great but there sales are lagging on the FL-18 and the LX-3 is taking off.
If this Version 2 software update does not clear up the problem you will see my FL-18 on EBay as well.

http://www.marcumcustomerservice.com/

Offline richstick

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #14 on: Dec 09, 2003, 09:47 PM »
Tim - you are just now going to get the V2 update for you Fl-18?? NO WONDER you think the LX-3 is so much better.  GET THE UPDATE!!!  

There are 26 FL-18's on Ebay because a dealer is selling them on there, go look at the postings, you'll see that just about every one is from the same seller.  I'm an avid Ebayer, I keep a very close eye on the fishing section there.  Every one of 'em sells for about $390 bucks. The reason there aren't any LX-3's is simply because their market share is so much lower than the mindless morons on fishing minnesota would have everyone believe.  

Nice try though.  

CNY_Tim

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #15 on: Dec 09, 2003, 09:58 PM »
I got the FL-18 updated at the end of last season.   Why the hostility?

Offline Bean

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #16 on: Dec 09, 2003, 10:02 PM »
Thanks for the heads up on the version 2 update. I just looked at mine and it was made just before the update.
Ken                                          
 

Offline FishDeepCreek

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #17 on: Dec 10, 2003, 04:25 AM »
The reason you see that many FL18 on Ebay, is that they are a hot item, and there is a company (Litchfield Sports) that is selling most of them. They are a sports store, probably trying to earn a few dollars.

Offline Bean

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #18 on: Dec 10, 2003, 06:25 AM »
CNY Tim, In an earlier post on Dec. 3rd, you said
Quote
The Vexilar 19 deg. and the MarCum 20 deg. transducers will provide a larger view in shallow water if you fish basins and flats.  If you fish for walleyes and lake trout around steep drop off's and tight structure a 9 deg. and 19 deg. switch box for your vexilar will be the ticket.  Most of my fishing is under 40' and the larger beam 19 & 20 are fine for me.
. If that's the case, this is what vexilar says:
Quote
Why can't I buy a 19 degree transducer with the FL-18? The FL-18 was developed mainly for Walleye and Perch fisherman to enable them to see these fish very close to the bottom. Although the wide beam transducer will plug in and work with the FL-18, it has too much "dead zone" to perform well for this application. Therefor, a 19 degree cone is not offered with the FL-18.
Maybe this is why your FL-18 is not producing to your liking?
Ken                                          
 

Offline Bean

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #19 on: Dec 10, 2003, 06:31 AM »
Also, Here's a good article from Vexilar on understanding sonar:
Quote
Understanding Sonar Specifications  
 
A depth finder / fish finder has three main parts;  the transmitter, the receiver, and the display.  Power output is only one of the factors in the operation of the unit.  It measures how much "punch" a sonar transmitter has.  Other factors, such as receiver sensitivity, sonar resolution, and display resolution have just as big of an effect on the performance of the unit.  Many times these other factors are not specified so it makes it a little though on you when your comparing different units on the store shelf.

Receiver sensitivity is the units ability to listen for the transmit bursts return to the transducer.  The Vexilar FL series flashers listens for this return and coverts it into the pattern you see on the display.  The strongest returns are shown as a red color.  The weakest returns are displayed as green.  Orange covers the area in-between.

Our finders have always been designed with moderate output power and very high receiver sensitivity.  This gives us a good clean signal throughout the units depth ranges.  Other manufacturers may use a different design which uses higher output power and lower receiver sensitivity.  The end result is that both units have about the same performance at the same depth range.

Sonar resolution, or target separation, is the units ability to separate one target from another.  For example, separating a fish from the bottom or one fish from another one close by.  This is a function of the transmitters pulse width, or how long the transmit burst lasts.  The shorter the burst the closer the sonar can separate two targets.  The FL-8SLT series can separate targets within 3 inches or so on the 20' depth range.  The deeper the range the longer the transmit burst, and thus, the separation increases.

Display resolution defines how small of a line the units display can draw.  This specification is the one that probably affects the user the most.  The better the display resolution the more detail the display will have.  For example, the FL-18 can draw 525 individual lines around the display.  When the range is selected to the 20 foot scale each line represents less than 1/2 inch.  As the range increases the display resolution decreases.

Don't buy a unit based on its power output specification alone.  Compare all specifications and look for the features that will affect you in the real world.  Also, go more by what other people say about their units and how they like them and not by what the salesmen tell you.  Most of our units are sold on the lake, not in the store.
 
Ken                                          
 

CNY_Tim

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #20 on: Dec 10, 2003, 09:14 AM »
Bean - My FL-18 does mark fish no doubt!  As you know most of my fishing is under 40' of water.  I like my FL-18 with a 19 deg. when fishing under 15' because I like the fact that a wider beam provides me a little more of an early warning as far as marking fish on flats suspended and on the bottom. A wider cone angle allows me to see a larger picture.  When I'm fishing 20' to 40' I can pop on my 12 deg. ducer on it only takes a couple minutes to do and I keep it right in my sled.    The reason that I did not get a switch box and 9/19 is because a good friend of mine that is in the know said that on 3 of 4 of his FL-8's this function never worked properly that's why he exclusively fishes the 9 deg.   I have no experience with a 9 degree transducer I only had a 19 with my FL-8.
Even with the 12 deg. on my 18 I still had problems with the zoom holding bottom.  Now that I have the update this situation should be taken care of. I love the zoom feature on both units but would have appreciated a larger window from Vexilar.
I have run into situations that I have had to use my FL-18 as an FL-8 off zoom because fish were riding or striking well off 6' from the bottom especially perch on Oneida Lake where they will easily chase 7' to 9' off bottom.

What's nice about the LX-3 is it performs as effective in these applications without added transducers I dont know if it has anything to do with power or not, it just does.  I definitely do see the benefit of having a narrower beam option and rumor has it MarCum will be making one available for 2004. There is truly no comparison when it comes to zoom features the LX-3 has it covered.  This year models screen brightness has been increased by 20% that should help people that feel the display from past years model was less eye appealing.  I have never had a problem with it but will say my FL-18's color spectrum and intesity are better.

If you are a zoom guy and  like fishing suspended crappies/bluegills having the abilty to adjust a zoom window anywhere you want in the water column intensifies your target separation.  Isolating targets and definition are great features in a flasher.

Bottom line is neither unit is going to help you catch more fish but if you like detail you'll find it in the LX-3.

Offline Hard_H2O

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #21 on: Dec 10, 2003, 09:56 AM »
First off I have a FL-8 SLT. I am very happy with it.

It would be nice if the display was a bit brighter like on the FL-18 and FL-8 SE. It would be nice to have the bottom lock and zoom like on the FL-18. It is not bad enough that I am going to run out and buy an FL-18 or FL-8 SE.

Stick with the FL-8 unless you have the money to spend. If you think the cost of upgrading to get the brighter screen and the extra bells and whistles would buy you more enjoyment or put more fish on the ice then go for it.

For me I can't justify replacing my FL-8 SLT when it works so good for me.

CNY_Tim

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #22 on: Dec 10, 2003, 11:54 AM »
Tony I don't care about power aspect don't know jack about it.
I can only tell you what I see if you ask me what the selling point on the MarCum is I won't tell you power.  For me it would be having a large zoom window that provides detail.  If your fishing 30' and a fish comes in 12' off I won't have to touch the zoom buttons...I'll see it on the split screen and get my jig up to it.  Now if that one fish turns out to be a school and those fish are concentrated at 12' off the bottom then I would take the 2 seconds after I unhooked the fish and while my jig is dropping back down,  make the adjustment... With the FL-18 in the same scenario the zoom is useless.  It's all about preference.  I own both I used both...Definition in your target area is my choice.
You want that FL-18 cooked at 350 or 375 :D
See ya tonight...

Offline richstick

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #23 on: Dec 10, 2003, 12:25 PM »
The species of fish that most often suspend is unarguably the crappie.  Yes, in some lakes, the perch will suspend, but they are an anomaly.  So, let's assume that by far the majority of fisherman(women) fishing for suspended fish are targeting crappie.  As we all know, crappie feed up.  So, when targeting them, smart anglers position their bait above the fish, anywhere from a foot to 6-7 feet in some cases.  That amount of space (1-7 feet) is easy to see on any flasher dial, I know it always was on my old FL-8.  This is why most logical anglers see no real reason to need to zoom in on a school of suspended fish.  It's a gimmick that really isn't helpfull in reality - it won't actually help you CATCH MORE FISH.  Now - a zoom that can help differentiate targets and their holding in relation to the bottom - THAT is an incredibly usefull tool.  When perch are rubbing their bellies in the mud, the FL-18 (and I'm assuming the LX-3) can show you those fish - the BOTTOM zoom can help you CATCH MORE FISH.  

That's my whole point - I'm not saying that the marcum is a bad unit, in fact, I'm sure it's a great unit, but for God's sake, I wish the few well placed propaganda artists would pipe down about marketing gimmicks that have no real value.  

CNY_Tim

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #24 on: Dec 10, 2003, 01:12 PM »
rich stick -  Your absolutely right and I agree with you.  Neither one of these two flashers is gonna catch you more fish but having a depth finder is a vital tool...  I know I can't leave home without it....
Zoom on a flasher is a major development.... Target separation, zoom and a crisp display is my thing. I know it's not everybodys.  I remember on my FL-8 I would have to concentrate on the bottom flicker and roll to know something was tight to bottom.  Both companies advancements in providing separation of targets and displays show that competiton in business can be a good thing.  Let them slug it out and will reap the benefits.
All I can say is I own both.  I stick by what I say no matter what pro staff or powerstick  or company is going to say.  I sleep well at night and have no allegiance to anything.  Just like Tony said, "' It's a cut throat business out there."  If I like a better flasher than the MarCum down the road I'll say it.  You can count on it.

Offline richstick

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #25 on: Dec 10, 2003, 02:01 PM »
I think that is one thing we can all agree on Tim - the competition can only benefit us all in the end!  It's not such a bad thing to have to sort out is it?  OH NO!! Which amazing piece of technology should I choose????   ;D ;D ;D  

Offline crappieloo

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #26 on: Dec 10, 2003, 06:17 PM »
I fish from 1 foot down to about 2 feet off the bottom , do i need a high tech flasher with zoom or bottom lock? I don't even know what bottom lock is. Richstick, all fish suspend in my neck of the woods. I've caught all types. Caught over 79 perch 1 night all suspended. I have worked many crappies that wouldn't take the bait till i dropped it down 3 or 4 feet. I think the big debate is what guys think they have to have instead of knowing what they need. I fish some lakes and in certain spots all the fish species are suspended 10 to 13 feet off the 18 foot bottom. Do i need to trash my fl-8?

Offline FishDeepCreek

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #27 on: Dec 11, 2003, 04:49 AM »
You dont use bottom lock for ice fishing, it more for trolling in open water. The FL18 is intended to be used for both ice fishing and open water fishing (with the unit used with a different transducer, and mounting system) The auto zoom is a big deal. If you have a stack of fish dead on the bottom the FL18 will show much better target seperation than if with not. With the entire column shown you get a cluster of lines, and can get confusing whats going on. The zoom will help alot. The FL 18 is a much better unti than the FL 8 for bottom reading purposes. Alot has to do with what species you fish for. Thats why the FL-18 is geared more towards perch and walleye, as they tend to lay on the bottom, but you also can use it for suspended fish as the FL 8. I do think sales numbers do tell the tale. Both Marcum & vexilar is simalarily priced, yet the Vexilar outsells by far. I think its that way because of its reputation.

Offline Da_Roc

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #28 on: Dec 11, 2003, 10:35 AM »
Hi Gang!
   I was wondering which fl18 are you guys are talking about there are 4 different models and 6 different ice transducers and many other items. Which one are you talking about?  I am finding out alot about the fl18 but which transducer do you use the 19 0r 9 degree or the wider type Genz model had a different transduce than the otheres??  Plus some have battery  posts, others dont.  The accessory thing has me confused.  the ultra pack doesnt come with all the trans ducers either.  So which one specifically are you guys talking about??? Which optional equipment works the best.  
I.E. Power savers gain setting one two power and larger screen.  I am only talking about the vexlair brand too guys.  I see some guys using this long cone shaped thing on there screens, does this to help view the screeneasier?  I see it in the magazines.  Is that and option cause I cant seem to find it in any of their catalogs.

   Da-Roc
  P.S. I was going to try and buy a fl18 but with so many options and so little information how can one make an informed $600 choice .  Thats alot of money to be guessing with.

Offline Hard_H2O

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Re:FL-8 vs FL-18
« Reply #29 on: Dec 11, 2003, 11:16 AM »
You really have only your FL-18 and the Fl-8. Two models. Then you have a choice of carrying cases or boxes. That may be where you are getting the extra models. You have standard transducers but you can buy separate transducers as an option. You plug them in at the back.

The FL-18 comes standard with a 12° transducer http://vexilar.com/products/fl18.html.

The FL-8 comes standard with a 19° transducer http://vexilar.com/products/fl8se.html.

I believe that the transducers are interchangeable between the Fl-8 and the FL-18.

There you can buy 9°, 12°, 19°, and dual cone 9°/19° transducers. The dual cone has a switch to choose between the two angles.

The 12° is, I believe a compromise between the 9° and the 19°.

Basically the 9° is better suited to deeper water and the 19° is better suited to shallower water.

The 12° is, I believe, a compromise between the 9° and the 19°.

I have an FL-8 with a 19° transducer. I bought a 9° for lake trout fishing but it got caught in a snowmobile track an got torn up before I ever got a chance to use it. I am getting one of the new boxes. The new boxes have a hole that accomadates the different size transducers. If I had had one of those I would probably still have the 9° transducer.

Here is a chart on the different cone angles and the diameter (Ø) theycover at specific depths:
   9° Cone
10' deep   Ø 1' 6.888"
20' deep   Ø 3' 1.77"
30' deep   Ø 4' 8.665"
40' deep   Ø 6' 3.554"
50' deep   Ø 7' 10.442"
60' deep   Ø 9' 5.330"
70' deep   Ø 11' 0.219"
80' deep   Ø 12' 7.107"
90' deep   Ø 14' 1.996"
100' deepØ 15' 8.884"
   12° Cone
10' deep   Ø 2' 1.225"
20' deep   Ø 4' 2.450"
30' deep   Ø 6' 3.675"
40' deep   Ø 8' 4.900"
50' deep   Ø 10' 6.125"
60' deep   Ø 12' 7.350"
70' deep   Ø 14' 8.575"
80' deep   Ø 16' 9.800"
90' deep   Ø 18' 11.025"
100' deepØ 21' 0.250"
   19° Cone
10' deep   Ø 3' 4.162"
20' deep   Ø 6' 8.324"
30' deep   Ø 10' 0.487"
40' deep   Ø 13' 4.649"
50' deep   Ø 16' 8.811"
60' deep   Ø 20' 0.973"
70' deep   Ø 23' 5.136"
80' deep   Ø 26' 9.298"
90' deep   Ø 30' 1.460"
100' deepØ 33' 5.622"
   30° Cone
10' deep   Ø 5' 4.308"
20' deep   Ø 10' 8.616"
30' deep   Ø 16' 0.923"
40' deep   Ø 21' 5.231"
50' deep   Ø 26' 9.539"
60' deep   Ø 32' 1.847"
70' deep   Ø 37' 6.155"
80' deep   Ø 42' 10.462"
90' deep   Ø 48' 2.770"
100' deepØ 53' 7.078"

 



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